Nothing I write is being allowed to post here. This is difficult to understand and leaving a very one- sided impression of things. Why is this the case?

--JL.

John A. Lobur:

Can you think of anything Swami G. has done wrong?

Please be specific.

Is there an independently audited financial statement (done by an outside accounting firm) that discloses in detail the finances of Swami G.?

Do you know through such a audited and specific budget statement the total compensation received annually by Swami G. from her supporters?

How is Swami G. accountable?

Does she answer to anyone? Is there any particular oversight?

You said, "I just cannot believe you made that up or were in a state of delusion at the time."

Please understand that cult members may frequently seem delusional, but are actually the victims of deception and undue influence. No one knowingly joins a "cult" and agrees to be "brainwashed." It's often a subtle ongoing process, which begins with deceptive "bait and switch" tactics and subsequently relies upon manipulation in the guise of training, spiritual enlightenment, therapy, counseling, etc.

No one that died under the influence of Marshall Applewhite in the "Heaven's Gate" group suicide (1997) in California believed that they were "in as state of delusion." But the facts demonstrate that they were deceived and manipulated by Applewhite, who was a deluded and deeply disturbed man.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Perhaps you should read the book "Karma Cola" by Gita Mehta.

See [www.amazon.com]

People in India have long understood that some gurus can be little more than con men or woment running a scam to exploit people.

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

This is the subsection within the Ross Institute Internet Archives concerning controversial Neo-Eastern groups. It lists quite a few gurus, swamis and assorted "God-men."

Many people have been deceived by spiritual con men and women functioning in the guise of "gurus" or "swamis."

Quote

No one that died under the influence of Marshall Applewhite in the "Heaven's Gate" group suicide (1997) in California believed that they were "in as state of delusion." But the facts demonstrate that they were deceived and manipulated by Applewhite, who was a deluded and deeply disturbed man.

JL will no doubt reply that no one has died, so therefore no comparison can be made between the GSG group and the Heaven's Gate group.

The point to examine is the behavior of a group and its leader before things reach a point where people are physically maimed or die.

*Lack of transparency in group finances

*Charismatic unquestionable leader

*Normalizing behavior that outside society considers cruel and financially exploitative

*Inability to imagine that the leader is capable of making a mistake (see #2)

*Inability of leader or group to tolerate questions, dissent

*Chronic atmosphere of secret keeping, fear, shame, competetion for guru's favor

*New members or prospective members not told the full details of the group's actual doctrine, finances, leader's behavior.

This URL lists all published posts by JL--over ten.

Dates range from September 2010 until now.

[forum.culteducation.com]


The number of published posts is different from 'nothing'.

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Nothing I write is being allowed to post here. This is difficult to understand and leaving a very one- sided impression of things. Why is this the case?

--JL.

Now...this bit of fact checking on my part may will probabably be reframed as "Oh, you seem very obsessed."

Or, "My, Corboy, you are putting so much energy into this."

Secular tax filer and tax payers indirectly subsizes gurus and their tax exempt fiefdoms, so we are entitled to feel energized.

Quote

This URL lists all published posts by JL--over ten.

Dates range from September 2010 until now.

[forum.culteducation.com]


The number of published posts is different from 'nothing'.

Good eye Corboy. Actually I was more concerned about recent posts that seemed to be taking a while to appear. :-)

John A. Lobur:

Your posts may take time to appear because you don't have pre-approved status, which means that each of your posts must be approved)before they appear.

This message board has had problems with spammers and trolls so moderation is necessary.

At times moderators may be busy or sleeping. This can delay the approval process and subsequent appearance of a post.

Quote

Can you think of anything Swami G. has done wrong?

Anything illegal, immoral, improper, indecent, racist, sexist, homophobic or the like?
The answer is a resounding no.

On the contrary I have seen or heard of her confronting and exposing these kind of things--both with regard to her own students and those in the wider world.

Have I seen her make human errors, be difficult/exasperating, etc?, yes.

If you want something specific? Lets see. . . on a few occasions I have seen the teacher "shoot from the hip" about something and have to correct herself later, even to the point of issuing an apology.

Once I received a package where the teacher misspelled my name even though I had been a student for years.

Once the teacher cancelled a Skype appointment on short notice and I was a bit disappointed by it.

That kind of thing. . . . if people feel that these are red flags, then they are welcome to it.

Students who work closely are warned ahead of time that "ego will be challenged at every turn." Its right on her website of anyone wants to look.

Have I seen the teacher apologize? Yes.

Does the teacher allow students to question her? Yes, absolutely. In fact there is a recent video put up where the teacher answers lifestyle concerns raised by a (current) student.

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Is there an independently audited financial statement (done by an outside accounting firm) that discloses in detail the finances of Swami G.?

Do you know through such a audited and specific budget statement the total compensation received annually by Swami G. from her supporters?

Well there is no independently audited statement and to my knowledge never has been. Earlier this was a concern of mine, but honestly there can only be little to account for. Never got to the point where I was saying to myself "OMG where is all this money going?" If her living arrangements are anything like those in the area I visited last time, many here reading this would probably consider them beneath their dignity. Probably around 1,000 square feet condominium shared with another person. I heard it mentioned that it was bought for $35,000. Hardly palatial.

Quote

How is Swami G. accountable?

In the same way you or I are legally accountable for our actions. She has also stated time and again that teachers are more accountable to the universe than anyone else.

Quote

Does she answer to anyone? Is there any particular oversight?

This teacher has said many many times if you see any teacher do anything you think is unethical then get the heck out of there.

Quote

Please understand that cult members may frequently seem delusional, but are actually the victims of deception and undue influence. No one knowingly joins a "cult" and agrees to be "brainwashed." It's often a subtle ongoing process, which begins with deceptive "bait and switch" tactics and subsequently relies upon manipulation in the guise of training, spiritual enlightenment, therapy, counseling, etc.

I'll let others speak for themselves. They have a right to relate their experiences, and other people have a right to read them, here or elsewhere. I can only relate mine. I believe, as does this teacher, that people should be welcomed and encouraged to read whatever negative things are said about a teacher.

Quote

No one that died under the influence of Marshall Applewhite in the "Heaven's Gate" group suicide (1997) in California believed that they were "in as state of delusion." But the facts demonstrate that they were deceived and manipulated by Applewhite, who was a deluded and deeply disturbed man.

Yes, which is why people should be very careful. If a ANY teacher seems fishy then one should walk away.

--JL

rrmoderator:

Understood. Thanks for the heads up.

John A. Lobur:

Based upon your response we can now conclude the following:

1. You don't think that Swami G. has ever done anything wrong or made any significant mistakes.

2. Swami G. has no meaningful accountability to anyone.

3. Money is handled by Swami G., there is no meaningful financial transparency and she is essentially supported by her devotees.

Thanks for the clarification.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2013 11:37PM by rrmoderator.

Hello Yasmin,

[/i]Guruwatch; How do you feel about taking medication for a mental health diagnosis, in terms of your personal opinion on what being "realized" means?

Taking Meds:
I support taking medication if needed-prescribe & monitored by a doctor, of course!
How can any one of us be of service to others (any one in our lives ) if we can't function?

What being realized means:
You are the first person to ask this question after many entries on the subject. My definition of Realization requires a shift into reality or what is. What is already here and not transported to a spiritual wonderland of mystical experiences or detachment from reality.

My definition is a little different from what is common in spirituality

It has noting to do with shakti, orange flames, orange robs, detachment, a silent mind, no mind, celibacy, spiritual performances, or any of the non-realized assume it is.

You ask good questions!