John A. Lobur:

See [www.culteducation.com]

The Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization devoted to public education and research. RI's mission is to study destructive cults, controversial groups and movements and to provide a broad range of information and services easily accessible to the public for assistance and educational purposes. RI is accountable by law to the IRS and the State of New Jersey and files all the appropriate paperwork, which is on file.

But the subject of this thread is not RI, but rather Swami G.

When cult apologists and supporters come to the message board they often attempt to change the subject of the thread by attacking RI or a member of the message board. For example, using the word "bitterness" to dismiss the source of comments they don't like as you just did. Sorry, but attacking people personally isn't addressing the issues they raise through their statements.

You don't cite any meaningful transparency regarding Swami G's finances, but insist that you have received "answers to my own satisfaction." Apparently you are easily satisfied by whatever Swami G. says and suppose that "there can only be very little coming in." However, you offer no proof whatsoever to substantiate that claim.

Whatever amount of money is coming in To Swami G. it is apparently sufficient to financially support her and buy her gifts. Apparently no one but Swami G. and whoever she decides to share information with know exactly how much money comes in from supporters, where it goes and/or how it is actually handled in any meaningful detail.

You say that you have now "said enough here" and have chosen "to leave" and allow certain questions to remain "unanswered." You also claim that there are "inaccurate statements" made on this thread, but refuse to engage in further discussion to prove that claim. Instead you have decided to let your final post somehow "suffice" as a response.

If you look around at various threads within this message board, many about groups you would readily acknowledge as destructive cults, this is the regular pattern of apologists and diehard cult supporters that come here to defend their group or leader. That is, when the run out of gas they pack up and leave. This isn't a demonstration of critical thinking or meaningful intellectual engagement, but rather proof that the would-be apologist is unable to factually support their apologies and has found it too difficult to plausibly defend the group or leader.

You say, "It does not take much brainpower to evaluate their veracity given the information age, so I'll just let others do their own legwork (that's how it should be, no?-- everyone should carefully investigate things for themselves)."

Absolutely.

And thank you for posting here and giving everyone reading this thread an opportunity to evaluate the veracity of Swami G. and the responses of her diehard devotees. Anyone that comes to this thread through a Google search can carefully investigate this supposedly "realized" guru and do the legwork necessary in a process of due diligence before supporting her in any way, shape or form.

Thank you again for your contribution to this thread. It's good to know how someone deeply committed (5 years of involvement within the group) to Swami G. responds to comments from former members of the group and critical questions.

"Truth will prevail, and may it prevail."

Amen.

Hopefully, things will work out for you.

All the best.

My apologies, but I don't think that my reply to Holly got through:

Dear Holly,

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful reply. All I can say is that I understand so much better now what you have been through and where you are now. You've helped me to understand. I get it now. If anything, you are a whistleblower. And that's a very honorable and noble and honest, albeit perhaps scary, thing to be. Please know that I have enormous respect and admiration for you. You are so very smart and well-spoken. I am sorry that you had to go through what you went through for seven years. But please think of the good you are now doing by speaking out, warning others, and acting -- truly -- with integrity, honesty and transparency. You are to be admired and emulated. It sounds like what you went through was an awful lot of manipulation and mind control. Quite sad. But now you are free, and helping others.

A big hug to you.

Icarus

John: I think it might be time for me to recognize the futility if arguing in a forum where the moderator is hostile (shouldn't they be neutral?)

You do realize your teacher does the same? She is not only hostile, but refuses to entertain, in any instance, someone's questions or concerns which express criticism against her and her group (How does she avoid that? By saying, "How dare you speak out against the guru. You are an ignorant fool. You better be quiet or go on your way before you suffer irrevocable karmic consequences"). Sadly, your very points contradict you and your teacher time and time again. Even more sad is you can't, won't, or refuse to see this.

John: I don't know what you mean by "balance" but only one person on this thread has been providing a viewpoint contrary to the majority lately.

I don't think a person who is invovled with the teacher or her group has any right to speak of balance, nor do I! Let those of us who aren't in her group, haven't left her group and don't know said teacher to be the ones that can speak to "balance without influence or agenda". Simply stated, so you can't find any way around that one, you are in a position that REQUIRES your support of your teacher (because you are WITH your teacher and if you can't see her as "good", then you have no reason to be with her); I am in a position that knows the force of declaring her as "all good" while with her, now able to see the "bad" and therefore can (and have) provide(d) both viewpoints; those without either of these experiences can judge with an impartial view. Like it or not, we are simply too close to the situation to be anything other than "partial". That's the honest truth, John.

John: Again, people can think what they want but Holly's post is, in my opinion, inaccurate and slanted by hard feelings.

And you are slanted by devotion. Let us at least be fair in our assesments, John.

John: ANY spirtual book? The Bible is not on the "list" and I don't feel compelled to avoid reading it. The Brother's Karamazov is very spiritual and I'm enjoying it right now. Yes the reading on enlightenment/spirituality was guided. I never saw anyone "excommunicated" for anything they admitted to reading.

Someone once admitted to reading "Perfect, Brilliant, Stillness". They were all but torn apart by your teacher "I NEVER AUTHORIZED YOU TO READ THAT BOOK! Everyone here must ONLY read the books I authorized." Past and present students reading this will, if they were there, remember this as well. You were there and will remember, unless you choose to forget. And I am totally comfortable with saying that ONE instance alone would be enough to keep anyone quiet about ever sharing what they are reading that ISN'T authorized by your teacher. I actally know, first hand, people have and continue to read books off of her list. They don't admit it to her. Why? Because they would be reprimanded and, if unwilling to stop reading, would be told to leave.

John: Suppose there was a teacher that taught a rare and difficult form of kung-fu. If they are going to teach you their kung fu, they ask you, if you agree to be their student, not to practice other forms of martial art that contradict this style as it may impede the progress you are making in this style. Would you call them censorious if they refused to be your teacher and told you to leave the dojo because you insisted on creating your own style? Or suppose there is a guide, and he or she agrees to take you to a mountaintop by the fastest way they know, but only if you don't take side trails that waste time, could be dangerous, etc. Would such a person be censorious if they refused to be your guide after you insisted on taking side-trails halfway up? A teacher has a right to stop teaching someone just as a student has a right to leave their teacher. I don't know where you've been but the Guru recommends and encourages people to read absolutely everything ever "written" by Ramana and I practically have. There were a wide variety of recommended authors completely unaffiliated with the Guru: Jon Kabat Zinn, Cheng Yen, Sharon Salzberg, Nonomura, Calvin Malone, Robert Adams, Buddha's Dhammapada, and others.

Suppose you went to a Kung-fu teacher and he asked you to do exactly as above. You tried very hard to learn his moves, but he kept chaning the rules, telling you were doing it all wrong (despite the fact that you were doing what he told you to do, though later he changed his mind and gave you a new move to learn while delcaring it had been a move he had taught all along ... but, he hadn't ... he kept changing his mind). You notice a class next to you. These guys are all performing their moves with relative ease and flow, while their teacher may be keeping careful watch over them, he is not attacking them with a stick (as your teacher does), but showing them how to correct errors by demonstrating it himself. Your teacher, discovering you are watching this other class, comes and slaps you in the face and then intoduces another new move to you. You ask, in exhaustion, why that move is being introduced or what the motive is behind that move itself, but are slapped again. Suppose.

John: As for the sharing of private information. NO details whatsoever about anyone's counseling were ever made available to me or, to my knowledge, anyone who the counselee was not fully aware of ahead of time. As for the suicide, this information was posted long ago in a different forum and I ran across it while ago doing my own due diligence (I can't find the link now but maybe someone else can and post it, and I strongly encourage anyone who works with a teacher to to extensive due dilligence first). The Guru gave a lengthy reply and explained just how concerned she was for this person's safety -- and emphasized this to the individual's caretakers. For the rest I can't remember anyone stepping forward to say that the teacher did criminal harm (or any harm outside of hurt feelings) to them or anyone they love.

John, you are not privy to this information because you are not, have not beeen and (may be now, thanks to your public devotion) a part of her inner circle. I know information about you, your girlfriend, your family. I know information about her inner circle (Sachi, Siddhananda, Suvrat, Hridaya, Vicki). I know information about her members in her group: Santhip, Diane, Jarom, JR, Mary, etc, etc, etc. I know information that they don't know I know (and that other's know) that is private because they have never shared it in the groups. How do I know? She's readily, consistently and arrogantly provided it all to me. The general public is receiving her counseling: I even know personal information about these people and they aren't even her students! Does the public know that she shares their private information with her closest students? Do they know there are often people in the room with your guru when she is giving them counseling on the phone or Skype? I think they deserve to know that. They are paying her $100 an hour, after all. If you require proof of this knowledge, then they only way to do that is to spill people's private information. Would you like me to share about what I know about you on here to prove as much?

"John: Holly, many others who have left don't carry with them such bitterness. I wish you the best. It was sad and hard for me to see you leave. You say "sent to hell" and all that. . . I did not hear anyone say anything about "sent to hell" and as for leaving, well, it is such a common occurrence there is a whole protocol publicly posted. I just don't understand, but its not my place to question your reasons. You have a right to them."
Call it what you will, the fact remains that I am sharing honest, first hand experience and have not told a single lie about any of it. You have failed to prove otherwise. The simple truth, John, is there dozens, upon dozens, upon dozens of people that have left her and feel the same. The sad fact is they don't want to have to face your teacher's scorn or bitterness. The reality is I have nothing to lose, a lot of mistakes to correct and I will gladly take your teacher on with narry a flinch. Am I scared? Terrified. Am I willing? Let my sharing here reveal that for you. Will your words diminish what I have shared in my heart, the hearts of those that have left her, or even in those that want to leave her now? Not even close.

May you find some clear sight and vision.
May your road be smooth and balanced.
Holly
xo



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 03:18AM by diddly.

Thank you, Icarus, for your kind comments. I am terrified, but willing.

Holly
xo

Thank you, RR Moderator, for allowing this place to be in order for those of us with great concerns to have a place to share free from the teachers and their groups own moderating.

Holly

Also, John, so this board and those that visit it can have a better understanding of your "position within her group": you have been kicked out of her primary group for a variety of reasons. You are in a group that is no longer authorized to do her practices, to get individual one to one attention, etc. And this is because you didn't do exactly as she told you do (again, details which I know which you may not want exposed). At least be honest about who you are and your position in the group. You fell far and hard from her good graces (as did I) and it is really no wonder that you would work just as hard to try to get back within them.

Honesty, John? Live by it.

To provide a more fair assessment of my own fall from the teacher's favor:

~ This teacher suddenly, after many years speaking otherwise, decided that in order for their to be "realization" for ANYONE, they would need to become a renunciate.
~ This teacher thus changed up her group AGAIN (after dozens and dozens of changes over the years) and said that any who would not become celibate and renunciates would no longer be allowed to be in her primary group and receive individualized guidance.
~ I have been married for 14 years. I was married long before having met this teacher. I was told to either become a celibate / renunciate, thus going against my marriage vows, or be demoted to the "dirt poor" group of lowly students that would not do the same. I was also told I'd never reach "realization" without doing so. And since I would also not have the guru's favor / guidance (unless I paid for it through counseling), I was in even more poverty.

It should also be noted that this teacher claims to be (her words) "a specialist in working as a Dangerous Friend / crazy wisdom teacher'. The fact is, if you read the book 'Dangerous Friend', this is a philosophy / system with rigid training and direction given by existing leaders in the same field to STUDENTS (before they are ever sent out and declared to be "ready" to give such instruction themselves). The fact is this teacher never took part in this system as a student for any significant amount of time. The same with "Sat Guru". She never spent time learning, receiving guidance and direction, or having one to one advice given by a Sat Guru (other than for a matter of days / weeks) before going out and presenting herself as such.

Holly, its hard to respond when there is all this emotion. Didn't I say you had your reasons and that you had a right to them?

Quote

You do realize your teacher does the same? She is not only hostile, but refuses to entertain, in any instance, someone's questions or concerns which express criticism against her and her group (How does she avoid that? By saying, "How dare you speak out against the guru. You are an ignorant fool. You better be quiet or go on your way before you suffer irrevocable karmic consequences"). Sadly, your very points contradict you and your teacher time and time again. Even more sad is you can't, won't, or refuse to see this.

That's just not true, I've seen her respond recently to someone who did just that, and I have never seen her say the words you are quoting.

Quote

I don't think a person who is invovled with the teacher or her group has any right to speak of balance, nor do I! Let those of us who aren't in her group, haven't left her group and don't know said teacher to be the ones that can speak to "balance without influence or agenda". Simply stated, so you can't find any way around that one, you are in a position that REQUIRES your support of your teacher (because you are WITH your teacher and if you can't see her as "good", then you have no reason to be with her); I am in a position that knows the force of declaring her as "all good" while with her, now able to see the "bad" and therefore can (and have) provide(d) both viewpoints; those without either of these experiences can judge with an impartial view. Like it or not, we are simply too close to the situation to be anything other than "partial". That's the honest truth, John.

I'm really having a hard time making sense of this. Are you saying I don't have a right to a voice here?

Quote

Someone once admitted to reading "Perfect, Brilliant, Stillness". They were all but torn apart by your teacher "I NEVER AUTHORIZED YOU TO READ THAT BOOK! Everyone here must ONLY read the books I authorized." Past and present students reading this will, if they were there, remember this as well. You were there and will remember, unless you choose to forget. And I am totally comfortable with saying that ONE instance alone would be enough to keep anyone quiet about ever sharing what they are reading that ISN'T authorized by your teacher. I actally know, first hand, people have and continue to read books off of her list. They don't admit it to her. Why? Because they would be reprimanded and, if unwilling to stop reading, would be told to leave.

Um, well, I was there and I don't remember it that way. I remember her saying it wasn't recommended, but "torn apart" is a pretty big exaggeration in my opinion. I remember people insisting that the teacher had, actually recommended it and her insisting she hadn't. I feel I pretty much read whatever I please these days -- and what you said about no reading philosphy? Puh-lease! Like I'm going to go burn my editions of Kant, Kierkkegaard and Hegel. . . .She never said anything of the kind. I taught Plato's Symposium a few semesters ago.

Quote

Suppose you went to a Kung-fu teacher and he asked you to do exactly as above. You tried very hard to learn his moves, but he kept chaning the rules, telling you were doing it all wrong (despite the fact that you were doing what he told you to do, though later he changed his mind and gave you a new move to learn while delcaring it had been a move he had taught all along ... but, he hadn't ... he kept changing his mind). You notice a class next to you. These guys are all performing their moves with relative ease and flow, while their teacher may be keeping careful watch over them, he is not attacking them with a stick (as your teacher does), but showing them how to correct errors by demonstrating it himself. Your teacher, discovering you are watching this other class, comes and slaps you in the face and then intoduces another new move to you. You ask, in exhaustion, why that move is being introduced or what the motive is behind that move itself, but are slapped again. Suppose.

Suppose you went to a teacher who told you ahead of time that the modality is fluid, that things will constantly be changing, to be prepared for regular shifts? As for "hittiing people with a stick" I think that a wild exaggeration. I have never seen this Guru strike anyone, but surely you mean that metaphorically. Just because people get chewed out doesn't mean the teacher is corrupt or unethical.

Quote

John, you are not privy to this information because you are not, have not beeen and (may be now, thanks to your public devotion) a part of her inner circle. I know information about you, your girlfriend, your family. I know information about her inner circle (Sachi, Siddhananda, Suvrat, Hridaya, Vicki). I know information about her members in her group: Santhip, Diane, Jarom, JR, Mary, etc, etc, etc. I know information that they don't know I know (and that other's know) that is private because they have never shared it in the groups. How do I know? She's readily, consistently and arrogantly provided it all to me. The general public is receiving her counseling: I even know personal information about these people and they aren't even her students! Does the public know that she shares their private information with her closest students? Do they know there are often people in the room with your guru when she is giving them counseling on the phone or Skype? I think they deserve to know that. They are paying her $100 an hour, after all. If you require proof of this knowledge, then they only way to do that is to spill people's private information.

You also met me several times and we were friends on facebook. Of course I shared a lot of information with you. I shared a lot of personal details with you. We had many conversations. So did the others you mention. You were my friend. . . my dear friend.

Quote

Do they know there are often people in the room with your guru when she is giving them counseling on the phone or Skype?

As far as I know they always do. People I spoke to acted like this was the norm.

Quote

Would you like me to share about what I know about you on here to prove as much?

Is that some kind of threat to keep me from speaking my mind?

Quote

Call it what you will, the fact remains that I am sharing honest, first hand experience and have not told a single lie about any of it. You have failed to prove otherwise. The simple truth, John, is there dozens, upon dozens, upon dozens of people that have left her and feel the same. The sad fact is they don't want to have to face your teacher's scorn or bitterness. The reality is I have nothing to lose, a lot of mistakes to correct and I will gladly take your teacher on with narry a flinch. Am I scared? Terrified. Am I willing? Let my sharing here reveal that for you. Will your words diminish what I have shared in my heart, the hearts of those that have left her, or even in those that want to leave her now? Not even close.

Holly, you have a right to keep doing whatever you think you need to do. But I have to say I have a right to voice my point of view too and I disagree with your take, and I do not think that everyone who left, even some long time students, would agree with all that you are saying.

Quote

Also, John, so this board and those that visit it can have a better understanding of your "position within her group": you have been kicked out of her primary group for a variety of reasons. You are in a group that is no longer authorized to do her practices, to get individual one to one attention, etc. And this is because you didn't do exactly as she told you do (again, details which I know which you may not want exposed). At least be honest about who you are and your position in the group. You fell far and hard from her good graces (as did I) and it is really no wonder that you would work just as hard to try to get back within them.

Honestly I don't agree with you here. "Primary," "secondary," these are your labels. Shifting to another modality didn't feel like a hard fall at all (how many times have we seen things shift and shift and shift before)? I never had some of the deeper practices and I don't feel ready for any of them right now. I don't feel like a lesser person or an underling to any of those with the "deeper" practices. True I don't get nearly as much individual attention as some but so what? Moreover, teacher actually recently personally (at length, and to me) answered many questions that came up here, for example about her finances, medical condition, so-called divulging of counseling secrets, the lineage, etc. I was afraid to ask nothing.

What is this fixation on details I may not want exposed?

--JL.

Holly -- Your posts are interesting, enlightening and thought-provoking. I'd meant to say in my earlier reply that I thought it unfair for another commenter here to criticize you for the detail and length in your posts. For heaven's sake. You went through a very difficult 7 years and were an eloquent and very public defender for this teacher. That you are now being so open and transparent in your self-reflection is a gift to others of us having either observed from the periphery (online) or been in the thick of it in person. What is clear to me is that you have a very, very strong desire not only to help yourself but also to help other people. That's been true since I saw your first vid.

I thought I would ask you a few other questions about your understanding of the guru/teacher and her claim to realization and "lineage" and related questions. That information, I think, would be of most help to the general public as well as people close in.

1 - When Swami G has referred to the guru who "commissioned" her a guru, she speaks in what I've considered to be very veiled and hazy terms, not identifying the guru, claiming that he wants to remain anonymous, etc. I've always found that a bit fishy. Do you know some of the details? How did Swami G become a guru? Was it after a long period of discernment and training? Or is she more of a self-appointed type? Someone who has blown out of proportion a word of encouragement received from a spiritual leader?

2 - I find it odd that she is so very hypersensitive to even neutral questions about the reasoning behind what she says and does. Does she demand blind and complete submission? Can you share more about that? Or is it that she, understandably, is just insecure and lacking in confidence given a lack of true training and wisdom?

3 - Swami G has posted no videos since her cell phone covers infomercial. This is the longest stretch that I've ever noticed. Is she alright? Do you know why there's been such silence on her part? Has she decided to drop the guru business in light of her dwindling ashram and instead pursue other creative endeavors - like interior design and cell phone covers? (This is a genuine question. I don't mean to be flip.)

4 - What do you think her current inner circle members - Sachi, Siddhananda, etc. - are getting from her that is keeping them in her circle? I have noticed in the videos a certain distancing between Swami G and her inner circle. Perhaps I'm misreading signs, but I can detect a certain skepticism settling in. Am I misperceiving that? I see these otherwise very intelligent people sitting there fawning over someone complaining about how her birthday wasn't celebrated with the magnitude of flourish and adulation that a guru of her stature deserves and I wonder... are they seeing what I am seeing? Are they hearing what I am hearing? Why do they stay? Certainly they are getting something of value from Swami G, no?

5 - Here's a broader question for you: What good has come to you, that you could share with us, from this entire experience. What lessons have you learned? What truths have you surfaced? What techniques and practices have you found most helpful in your day-to-day existence? I.e., despite all of the drama, were there concrete practices and techniques that you learned during the last 7 years that you have found valuable and can share with us?

Finally:

6 - You are a phenomenal teacher. A great communicator. Why don't YOU start an online forum of sorts, offering practices and techniques for everyday living. Daily Buddhist meditations, say? Via Google Hangout, so that it's free to you and everyone else? See how that goes? Then offering little satsangs here and there, but without the hardline religious connections. More of an Eckhart Tolle/Pema Chodron sort of thing? I think you'd be great. I'd participate for sure.

Icarus

1 - When Swami G has referred to the guru who "commissioned" her a guru, she speaks in what I've considered to be very veiled and hazy terms, not identifying the guru, claiming that he wants to remain anonymous, etc. I've always found that a bit fishy. Do you know some of the details? How did Swami G become a guru? Was it after a long period of discernment and training? Or is she more of a self-appointed type? Someone who has blown out of proportion a word of encouragement received from a spiritual leader?

Her Guru's name is Rishi Rajiv (http://www.rishirajiv.org/). The story goes that she found a book written by him while living in India (she was married to a Brahmim and living in India at the time). She eventually sought out the guru above. After short bit of time, she presented something she had written to him (already thinking herself "realized" then), and he lashed out at her with: "You fool! You know nothing!". She fell, admittedly, into a mute state (saying she was unable to speak a word for a few days) and eventually found herself sitting by the Ganges. Contemplating on what he said, she "surrendered" saying "On the Altar of truth I lay myself". She claims she then lost consciousness and came back to in to full enlightenment. Her teacher "confirmed" her enlightenment (there are apparently tests for this) and told her to "go forth and be a guru". She left two weeks later and did as much. (Except she first got a divorce, became a renunciate and got her Swami title in that way. Calculated? You decide.) Her Guru, Rajiv, was declared by Papaji (also known as Poonja). Papaji also declared the widely known (dangerous) teacher Andrew Cohen. Papaji even declared Andrew Cohen's mother (you can read her book "Mother of God") as "realized". In her book she describes the "fall" of her very son and how she herself never felt "realized", but found herself dependent upon Papaji because of his declaration. Papaji also declared Ganaji as realized and she has since (her videos can be seen at www.batgap.com) admitted that she was not prepared to go forward and teach as he told her to, and had to later make apologies for telling people to "destroy their stories". The lineage itself is controversial. As are a couple of the teachers (the one in this thread included). Also, this teacher tells people that her guru is in retirement, but he is not. Any can join his satsangs any time they please.

2 - I find it odd that she is so very hypersensitive to even neutral questions about the reasoning behind what she says and does. Does she demand blind and complete submission? Can you share more about that? Or is it that she, understandably, is just insecure and lacking in confidence given a lack of true training and wisdom?

Yes, she demands complete submission. If you cannot totally surrender to the guru, you are sent away. She takes your obvious (or admitted) flaws, propensities and shortcomings and uses them against you to demand submission. What is seen as a "positive experience" while in her group she takes full claim for ("you are happy, had that experience, are doing well in life because of guru's grace"), whereas any negative happening is said to be the students own ignorance, problem, etc ("you are ignorant, not honest, not devoted enough, not giving enough to the guru, etc"). So essentially she owns your good stuff, rejects your bad stuff and lets you own that, then uses the bad stuff against you in case you get out of line. You choose if that displays "training and wisdom".

3 - Swami G has posted no videos since her cell phone covers infomercial. This is the longest stretch that I've ever noticed. Is she alright? Do you know why there's been such silence on her part? Has she decided to drop the guru business in light of her dwindling ashram and instead pursue other creative endeavors - like interior design and cell phone covers? (This is a genuine question. I don't mean to be flip.)

When I left 3 months ago she had pulled back from all of the groups except for the one of her die hard devotees (the renunciates or close knit students). The other's were essentially demoted and left to scramble to find a way back in to the inner circle. She also is really pushing hard for her counseling service / addiction services / coaching service, as it has the potential to make good money. Sachi Ananda, the counselor at a rehab clinic, has tried (unsuccessfully) to get her teacher's methods / practices into the rehab center practices (this teacher honestly believes she can change psychology and addiction treatment because she is a guru. She pushed hard for Sachii to not only get her practices / teachings into the center, but also offered up her interior design services to them. I'm not making this up. There was former student in the same field that she was all but harassing to write a book with her about psychology and change the way he runs his practice. He, thankfully, left shortly after.) She is trying to find a niche, considering guru-ing has't worked out so well for her (she has less than 30 students remaining... with a long line of bitter students that have left). She tried, unsuccessfully, to start an antique shop. She tried, without much interest, the cell phone and light switch outlet covers. She is still focusing on the counseling. She is also now a photographer, apparently, and has her own shop with her pictures. Of course, these ventures are also bought and paid for by her one student, Hridaya.

4 - What do you think her current inner circle members - Sachi, Siddhananda, etc. - are getting from her that is keeping them in her circle? I have noticed in the videos a certain distancing between Swami G and her inner circle. Perhaps I'm misreading signs, but I can detect a certain skepticism settling in. Am I misperceiving that? I see these otherwise very intelligent people sitting there fawning over someone complaining about how her birthday wasn't celebrated with the magnitude of flourish and adulation that a guru of her stature deserves and I wonder... are they seeing what I am seeing? Are they hearing what I am hearing? Why do they stay? Certainly they are getting something of value from Swami G, no?

Fear is the primary motivator. Fear of, if you were to leave, never having anything "good" happen in one's life or journey (since she now owns all good things, thanks to her "endless and compassionate grace"). Fear that you are deluded, ego driven, blind, ignorant, a fool and will get lost out in the world (she actually has said all of the above ... daily). Fear of being condemned. You also have to understand that her inner group (Siddhananda, Sachiananda, Hridaya, Suvratananda) left behind their families and former lives, and moved to Florida to be near her (Siddhanada actually lives with her). Can you imagine, given their situations, how difficult it would be to leave even without the threats of condemnation, being "lost or alone" or never reaching the state they are all earnestly hoping to reach (they've also been told, as has everyone that meets her, that you will never reach said state with out a guru. She's got a way to keep you stuck at every turn.)? I have deep compassion for their situations. I do not envy them what-so-ever. Based on my experience (and what those that left have told me), you are long aware that there are problems present, but because the teacher has set herself up as beyond reproach, there is no way to resolve those problems. So you are left, essentially, stuck in the mud. So, these glaring problems are seen, but you have no idea what to do with them and are so convinced that you can't get away without heading to hell or losing all Grace that you stay. She has said, hundreds of times, "I don't have a sincere student here". And yet, we strive harder and harder, instead of saying "if that's so, why am I here?"

5 - Here's a broader question for you: What good has come to you, that you could share with us, from this entire experience. What lessons have you learned? What truths have you surfaced? What techniques and practices have you found most helpful in your day-to-day existence? I.e., despite all of the drama, were there concrete practices and techniques that you learned during the last 7 years that you have found valuable and can share with us?

I won't get into any practices or things, only give a generalized view of what has happened since leaving (as I don't think this is the proper forum for this). It was very difficult to leave; beyond difficult. I, fortunately, had not alienated my family and they helped me tremendously and kept me grounded. I also reached out to some close friends, some former students and those whose opinions and view I had long known to be stable, balanced and impartial. It took a lot of honesty (on my part) to come to terms with not only seeing what the teacher was truly doing (without trying to use her means to justify them all) and then looking at myself in the same way. This is also not over for me (coming to terms, understanding myself, etc) and continues even now.

I can say, for those thinking of leaving any teacher that resembles similar things, find yourself some trusted support and get ready to struggle for a bit. It isn't easy, but possible. I will say, just for those in her group, that she has long declared all grace will be lost to those that leave her. The truth is that statement is about as rational as saying she owns the sunlight and the sun. She doesn't. The sun shines equally upon all. She simply uses fear to keep you submissive and under her control. The fact that she can't judge the correct and healthy things to eat for herself (as demonstrated by her obesity and requiring medical intervention) shows that she is in no position to judge what you hold in your heart, to know your true intentions or whether you are "worthy". Her judgment is no more sound than yours; yours, if you will exercise it, may even be more sound than hers.

6 - You are a phenomenal teacher. A great communicator. Why don't YOU start an online forum of sorts, offering practices and techniques for everyday living. Daily Buddhist meditations, say? Via Google Hangout, so that it's free to you and everyone else? See how that goes? Then offering little satsangs here and there, but without the hardline religious connections. More of an Eckhart Tolle/Pema Chodron sort of thing? I think you'd be great. I'd participate for sure.

I think that would not only be irresponsible on my part (I'm just finding my footing). I am interested in coming to a place of balance, peace and understanding. I'll gladly share some of what that process looks like, but not in any position of "leadership" and most certainly with very careful measurement to limit negatively impacting anyone else.

Holly
xo



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 07:58AM by diddly.