Hi XRohan,

It's a common tactic used in that group (to mock, belittle and then condemn when someone speaks out against questionable behavior and/or attempts to leave) and, if you look around all over the Rick Ross forum, you will see the same repeated in groups of similar kind.

Money, sadly, often becomes a huge motivator with these leaders. A sense of "entitlement" and "arrogance" soon befalls upon the leader (it doesn't just happen in religion ... it can happen to any man in any position of authority or power) and the aim slowly evolves, as do the means. What once began as "a way to assist humanity" becomes "humanity owes me for my assistance". It doesn't usually happen over night (though, the roots were in place at the onset within the leader and subsequently built into the group), but is a subtle evolution. Because someone is usually there for a significant period of time and because this evolution moves at a slow and steady pace, by the time glaring contradictions / inconsistencies / problems are seen that person is all but dependent upon the group and the leader. Leaving later is not as easy as leaving sooner; much has been invested in way of not only funds, but autonomy (given over), personal philosophy has evolved and is dependent upon the leader and their group, family / social ties have been strained or abandoned, and life outside and away from the group is such a distant memory that one may be too intimidated to try it on their own. The leader feeds that, continually, with their teachings / condemenations / creating a sense of dependence upon them through skillfull use of taking away the person's ability to reason for themselves ("the ego is leading the way. you cannot do this on your own.") or by threats of some "hell" or permanent disgrance (I was told Grace would end because I turned my back on said teacher). It's a pathological and skillful con to garner adherence through the use of fear, dependence and condemnation.

I'm glad you were able to leave. Take it easy on yourself and take good care of yourself (physically, emotionally and mentally). Coming to terms with the abuse that you were subjected to requires a great deal of patience, compassion (for yourself) and willingness.

In reply to [forum.culteducation.com]

Hi XRohan,

It's a common tactic used in that group (to mock, belittle and then condemn when someone speaks out against questionable behavior and/or attempts to leave) and, if you look around all over the Rick Ross forum, you will see the same repeated in groups of similar kind.

(I was told Grace would end because I turned my back on said teacher)

I was never her student. I found her youtube channel, and I was considering a visit. However, I found that she engages in a lot of drama & spiritual entertained. I didn't detect any of the Transmission she said one can get from watch her videos.

On the other hand I watched Holly's videos, I found her to be very real, credible, and she didn't make any claims such as swamig who claims a realization.


Regards,

GuruWatch

Also, regarding "government pay", this is a glaring inconsistency / concern which that teacher evades at every turn.

The FACT is she is getting funds from the US Government (Veteran) for PTSD.
The FACT is she claims (by her so-called "realization" or "liberation") to be free from suffering, depression or any such emotional / mental / psychological disorder.
The FACT is she is either: a) lying about her disorder to receive the funds (which is not only a moral and ethical violation, but a legal one) or b) lying about her "liberation" from any such emotional / mental / psychological disorder.
The FACT is, either way, she is lying.

This ONE example (among too many to count) is enough to discredit her on any level as a "liberated being", an ethical / moral upstanding human being, a "counselor" (she actualy gives counseling, without one hour of formal training), and she is in no way qualified to lead, counsel or coach others in lieu of just this ONE example.

The funds (thousands of dollars) do come from her students, but the majority from ONE student alone. Those are used for business ventures (jewelry, antique shops, hodge podge art sales, photography), play things (cars, motorcycles, expensive instruments, jewelry, trips, day to day living expenses, Rolex watches, etc) and her housing (he has payed for all her houses) ... not to mention the loans he gives to other students in her "favor".

She doesn't need the government funds simply because of the funds given by this ONE student alone. But, she takes it. She also has no business using a student's (such ethical and moral concerns again) hard earned money to support not only her lifestyle, but her endless desire for erroneous activities / goods / gadgets / businesses / flights of fancy. No doubt she justifies this "taking of monies" with her "guru role". "Am I not worthy of my keep?", she'll assert. "To what end and by what measure?", I'd reply.

lets not begrudge an older women a pension that she might have earned.

But, it's a different matter pretending that she is a realized master & take money from her students. This is anther matter completely.

I watched her fire ceremony video. The orange flames can be produced with a sprinkle of calcium chloride (CaCl2) onto a normal fire.

I don't think that was the goddess, shakti visiting her!!!

But you have to admit, she is very entertaining :)

GuruWatch

And why does she need a RolexWatch doesn’t she live in the monument-couldn't resist that one.
.

Guru Watch: "lets not begrudge an older women a pension that she might have earned."

It isn't a pension. It is "disability payments". That's a HUGE difference. Meaning, she presents herself as psychologically / emotionally / pathologically disabled. She, ADMITEDLY, tells them "There is no one here" in order to draw those disability payments. Again, if she IS psychologically and emotionally disabled then she has no business touting herself as a "guru". Is she isn't disabled, then she has no business duping the government (and tax payers) into giving her funds for a non existent condition. If she is not disabled, then she can do like the rest of the world and get a job. If she believes her "guru-ing" is a job, then she should stop taking government disability funds AND repay the government for lying all these years (only, she'd have to get the money from her students to pay them back, thus making them pay for her crimes).

Don't get twisted; she isn't a helpless older woman. She is either pscyhologically disabled or pathologically so. Either way, her role as a "guru" is a dangerous game that she is playing at the expense of other's (students and government / tax payers all being equal in her game).

Also, because it was only mentioned once on this thread and because she has never addressed it (instead, hoping to evade these things with some spiritual mumbo jumbo):

She is on medication. Clonzipan, I believe. She claims it is to help to "take the edge off". Edge off of what? Even with them her anger and rage spill over onto everything and everyone.
She has repeatedly (which I have witnessed) demeaned, devalued, mocked, belittled and all but cursed students for either a) taking meds for psychological issues, or b) considering to do so.
She once took great liberties to wean a student off of his meds. She is neither a doctor, a nurse, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, or any other such qualified person.
While she was taking those liberties to "treat" this man, she herself continued in her daily use of medication.

Does she suffer from psychological or pathlogical disorders? Both? I can't say. I am no professional and wouldn't dare take the liberties that she has. However, she is suffering from a grand dellusion and great misuse of her self appointed powers which can and have had dire consequences.

As I read through these examples, it ibecomes more and more terrifyingly clear that there are many laws being broken and that there is potential (and actuality) for great personal / bodily / pscyhological harm due to this women's treatment of her students.

I shudder to think of all the years I spent there in blind belief and fear. I'd like to formally offer my apologies to any and all that I may have hurt, confused, or done any type of harm towards with my arrogant, blind and misguided views while in her group. Please accept my sincere apologies and the testimony I am sharing here as merely one step I am taking to right my wrongs as I work towards a deeper understanding of and willingness to correct my own follies, errors and issues.

Hi there Guru Watch

Yes it is my personal opinion that this teacher is realized. The evidence is ultimately, and admittedly, subjective, and I have no desire to try and convince anyone of the veracity of something I personally take as no longer a matter of belief. All are free to make their own determination. All who have ever left were wished well (and I personally sincerely wish them well) and, as far as I know left completely alone, as is only right, ethical and proper.

Just because the teacher is very difficult does not make them a fraud.

People go to physical fitness "boot camps," don't they? Nor is it expected for the teacher to work for free -- Some very charitable people insist on payment just so that the service rendered will be valued and the instruction followed. Some teachers can be quite difficult --

The use of Clonazepam, was openly stated by the Guru long, long ago. There are no surprises here, and realized beings still have nervous systems. The psychological effects of PTSD are gone but the Guru has, for a long long time, stated that certain things still trigger a physical response, just that there is no mental/emotional residue attached to it.

I have personally seen (very) many students turned away because there were psychological issues revealed and the Guru felt that they were not suited -- that their condition was too complicated, and that for reasons of safety and health they were better off with another venue.

The Guru has stated that the disability (what percentage, I do not know) received from the Govt. is military disability due to PTSD trauma suffered from horrific sexual abuse while in service.

I have been with the group for a while and will say this:

I will not judge those who have left. Many, many people (beyond counting) leave, for what seems to be a variety of reasons.

I have personally never witnessed or experienced anything unethical. Have I seen the Guru give people a hard time? Yes. Have I seen people have difficulties with the Guru's personality? Yes.

I will not speak for those who may have left, but from what I have observed, for those who leave with resentment it usually seems to come down to two things (or a combination of the two).

1. They feel personally disrespected by the Guru's teaching style. The crazy wisdom modality is basically an insult to the ego from top to bottom. Swami-G's own Guru acted in this way to her and the story is well-known to anyone with a little time on their hands.

Recall, too, that at the most prestigious and respected Zen monastery in Japan (eihei-ji) life is very hard. The novice monks are treated like dirt. They undergo what we would consider physical and psychological torment and the senior monks smack their faces if they so much as look them in the eye (I do not exaggerate). This is well documented in the bestseller Eat Sleep Sit. I have never seen the Guru expect any student to undergo anything of the kind.

In the Christian world, being a monk is not always easy, and, for example, for the Monks on Mt. Athos one takes a vow never to leave. Visitors are hissed at for folding their hands improperly in prayer.

Are we to consider this abuse as well?

2. The Guru's lifestyle and deportment does not conform to what they personally consider a Guru's lifestyle should be -- note this does not mean they witness anything actually improper or unethical. It means they are turned off by the fact that the Guru wears makeup and jewlery, dotes on her pet dog, plays an instrument or two, likes to sell cell-phone covers, buys a motorcycle, takes Clonazepam, had gastric bypass surgery, likes to eat meat, watches Jerry Springer, enjoys listening to Barbara Streisand, dances Flamenco. . . That sort of thing. If anyone wants to add to the list, they are free to do so as I am probably forgetting a thing or two. I do not think that any of these things makes one a fraud--and they are, indeed, openly displayed, not hidden. One never finds revealed a discrepancy between public and private life. Much of it too has to do with the fact that holiness does not mean conforming to a set of external criteria -- it is, at times, a lesson in itself.

What seems to be never mentioned is the fact that this Guru's personality is not always difficult but also displays great concern, compassion and tenderness too when this is warranted.

Anyway, that is all I have to say for now. And please, I do respect the fact that people have a right to their opinion and to express it wherever they may please. I just hope that what I have written adds a different perspective in a constructive manner.

--JL.

I watched a video shes sitting in a chair with butterflys all over it talking about Jihad let me tell you she nine sheets in the wind her pupils are as big as her eyes have seen her on several vids doped up Jayananda was there and left the path right after that he had said somthing about it.

Diddily you were duped like the rest of us damn the sad thing is I thought this was gonna be it she was the real deal but I guess all those people in jonestown did to...............