one other thing.
Some people wonder "why" these cryonics companies have "unskilled" people on staff, sitting around getting paid a good salary and "wasting money".

Why?
Because that is how you run a "non-profit" as a piggy-bank for your cronies.
You "hire" your associates/friends/partners and that allows tax-free money to be legally spent in a way the owners of the "non-profit" want.
You "hire" your associates and give them "grants" and "research projects" and that is how the monies are disbursed.

Those are the loopholes in the non-profits that every dubious/corrupt non-profit exploits.
Some of them even just hire themselves, give juicy travel expenses, etc, and even buy their OWN products/services from their own private for-profit companies.

non-profit to private profit.

also, same with land-transfers, etc That is where all the money goes, and its serious money.
Only in America.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 03:27AM by The Anticult.

Cryonics is both legit and cult-- at the same time. This is because there is is a cult component and a legit science component. A good analogy would be vector components.

[upload.wikimedia.org]

The x-vector would be legit cryonics. The 30 degree angle vector would be cult cryonics. The "resultant" would be where we are, when we ought to be on the x-axis. Cult cryonics has thrown us off course. I'm working to get us back to the x -axis.

Paradoxically, the cultists in cryonics will tell you that cryonics is "just a developing medical technology"-- making it seem that THEY occupy the x-axis. This is the deception they get away with. Cryonics is NOT "just a developing medical technology" like heart transplants. It's a fundamentally speculative venture that banks on the idea that the human mind is embedded in physical brain structure and that that can be made to function again. This goes beyond developing medical science into a purely hypothetical zone beyond medicine.

The financial supporters of cryonics are banking on behaviourism to "sell" cryonics, hoping that creating a "public perception" that they will increase membership. The problem is that humans, though often subject to behaviorism, are reasoning entities that can escape "public relations behaviorism driven propaganda". Me, for instance.

StopDefamingCryonics@gmail.com seems to have rescinded again and deleted the Webspawner page.

[www.webspawner.com]

This was done once before, however, and later they reappeared on the page as they threatened if I were to complain about their control of my URL. They said they would keep it in their back pocket to use against me.

Nothing less than my complete control over that URL is acceptable to me and to accomplish that, SDC/CADC has to request, via email to support@webspawner.com, to delete the account. That would make that URL available to me. I've requested SDC do that and will check back next Monday.

If they do not do that, then their stated intention to bash me on my own page remains in effect.

PhilOssifur

I will remain a skeptic to cryonics until their 'scientists' can freeze and then successful thaw a test subject such as a dead mouse or dead rat (with no massive cell damage). As far as re-animation of the dead tissue and 'bringing the dead back to life', I will 'assume' that the science necessary for that is 'to be invented sometime in the distant future'.

...along with personal jet-packs, anti-gravity spaceships and cold fusion.

It all sounds too Mary Shelley-esque to me.

This Mark Plus guy is obviously the Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee.

Why?
At Cold Filter
[www.network54.com]
Mark Plus says that Larry Johnson might be the Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee!
That is clue #1.
He is trying to deflect and blame someone else for his own ugly personal smear tactics, which have backfired, and have made ALCOR look terrible. Nice job, Mark Plus, another permanent stain on Alcor.

Most tellingly, Mark Plus also repeats the EXACT SAME list of personal insults that were posted on the former Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee hijacked webpage.
Exact same content, same style. He wrote it.

Mark Plus even takes it much further, and tries to suggest Larry Johnson had access to confidential records and files from Alcor, concerning these issues.
Can you believe this?
Mark Plus, who is connected with Alcor, is talking about confidential records from Alcor?
Anyone can see what Mark Plus is doing there, trying to smear one person through blaming another person. Trying to smear 2 people at once, for something he is DOING himself. Truly, a vile vile tactic.

Mark Plus is a disgrace on the face of "cryonics". If anyone has damaged cryonics, its guys like Mark Plus.

He then also tries to do his typical personal attacks on Larry Johnson, to distract from the facts of what is really being discussed.

The reality is that any reasonable person would have to be out of their minds to consider going anywhere near Alcor or the other cryonics companies, when the people associated with these companies behave like Mark Plus and the other ususal suspects from cryonics.

These cryonics organizations are rotten to the core, and should be avoided at all costs.

CADC/SDC and cryonicists in general have an ethical flaw. They are reductionist. Here we see in SCD's latest email to me the idea that "it's not his fault" that Webspawner made my URL available to him...

quote
"Phil Ossifur" <philossifur@yahoo.com>
Again, sorry. Hope our most recent change will help. Don't understand why you blame us for you having given up a website we occupied, but it doesn't matter now, hm?
unquote

That was in response to my email to SDC as follows

quote
You're currently occupying a webspawner.com url that was left open through Webspawner policies, violating normal ethical rules. The URL is titled

[www.webspawer.com]

I originally created that page. I'm currently trying to compile Angelfire, google and webspawner data history on my mistake... which you took advantage of.

You can delete the page on your account management page to yield a 404 and you can delete the account by asking it to be deleted at support@webspawner.com

Leaving URL's previosly occupied open for enemies to occupy is something I'm going to point out to Webspawner is not done by any major blog, forum or webspage company other than them. Your continuing to occupy that URL will be negative, overall, for cryonics or at least the current people in power in cryonics.

Thanks in advance. You asked me to delete all blogs.. I did, then I discovered you stabbed me in the back with this webpage. This is what you are. Look in the mirror. You didn't "change your mind" as I do when I re-invent a blog and take a different approach. You simply created this attack page behind my back.

Delete the page, and delete that account. When I re-occupy that URL, I'll consider this over. Until then, it's not over. Either that-- or I'll try to delete my Angelfire account that leads to that page... I think I can do that but it might take extra time and effort...

Make the inevitable easy. Just give it up.
unquote

My comment-- Here's SDC's continuing threat...

quote
Don't understand why you blame us for you having given up a website we occupied
unquote

My comment is... of course I blame SDC-- since they can easily give it back. AND they intend to keep it to keep me "in line". The fact that SCD "doesn't accept responsibiltiy" is consistent with reductionist logic and ethics. And that's where this stands. In addition, there is a continuing ban by SDC/CADC on my blogging about cryonics-- punishable by more real name bashing on blogs dedicated to malignment of me personally, along with personal threats of various veiled sorts. That's cryonics-- or at least the cult component of it.

I'll have to find a way to get my angelfire account deleted which would remove the link to the hijacked page under my name.

Here we see Mark point to this thread where he cites the "Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee" in full-- not merely the acronymn-- CADC-- and further, citing that "Committee" without questioning the very existence of such an entity-- as though it's perfectly natural and legitimate.

[www.network54.com]

Mark's denial characterizing me and Rick Ross as tin foil hatters is the best he can come up with-- which is actually a tactic. The tactic is a page taken from the modus operendi of cults-- which is to not merely defend but to counter attack in any way possible. All mark had to do was simply deny that he is CADC. Instead he did NOT deny it but counter attacked with tin foil hat characterizations.

The tin foil hat is actually legitimate. It's called a Faraday Cage. And yes, I've been in one in as part of an experiment. I know about them. So Mark would be quite right in pointing to me as a "Faraday Cage Guy". I have the complete files of CADC's blogs against me-- if Rick Ross wants, I'll extract sections from it so that he might compare the language and semantic pattern used by CADC with Mark even more than in the past to come up with a sort of DNA language "match".

Rick Potvin seems to have been a target of some people for quite a while. I found these old Usenet posts which I doubt were written by Rick.

[groups.google.com]

[groups.google.com]

I would warn anyone interested in cryonics that it could lead to serious online harassment of your real world name. There is a very peculiar and narrow way that cryoncists allow you to talk about cryonics. The example demonstrated by me is not to be understood merely in a reductionist as harrassment of me-- but as an example of a more general case where any attempt to discuss cryonics in various contexts will invite goon squad tactics to be aimed against the writer's real world name on the internet. The hijacking and threats used against me by CADC are a case in point-- to be understood generally.

I've arrived at a Mexican Standoff with CADC where they occupy my Webspawner page, linked from my old anglefire page that I've lost the login info to. I'm currently trying to work with Angelfire to get access back. I created the page with a webtv box which I discontined use of years ago... but I failed to save my data for passwords-- which was stupid on my part-- but the vindictivenss of CADC-- and the compliant cryonicists who witnessed this travesty who continue to say nothing-- in the face of this harrasement-- is stunning in its implications. It means-- STAY AWAY FROM CRYONICS-- at the risk of being personally attacked for a difference of view.

I remain signed up for cryonics for my own reasons-- both philosophical, and scientific. But I find I'm rather unique in my view... which I'm no longer "allowed" by CADC to write or blog about... which is pathetic. My next task is merely to change that Anglefire page so CADC doesn't have control over my internet exposure anymore. It's a great deal of trouble that CADC could have saved me had they had any sense of ethics. They do not.

I feel I've made this "discovery" about the true inner nature of cryonics not just for me but for the world at large. Associating with cryonics, even under a psuedonymn, will get you in trouble publicly becuase cryonisits have NO REGARD and NO RESPECT for pseudonymns. If they find out who you are, you will be targeted if you're views are critical even in a helpfful way. Again, I can say this because I am not a reductionist. I am an integrationist.... meaning that what happens to ME-- with this case-- is to be regarded as what can happen to ANYONE. It just happens that I KNEW enough about what was going on in cryonics and that I am COURAGEOUS enough to push into the hell that they have created-- as a sort of truth-in-cryonics pioneer-- to UNCOVER the depths of the problem here.

This will likely be my last post to the cult forum for now-- I guess I've discovered that looking at cryonics through the eyes of cult psychology CAN be helpful. There are certainly characteristics of psychological traits in cryonics that correspond to cultishness. It's as if a good idea has been captured by a cult... and the Howard Hughes leader of the operation is Saul Kent... who maintains silence despite his huge influence on the entire field. Amazingly he did as he SAID he would do in his 1960's cross country tour of cryonics outposts-- which was CONSOLODATE cryonics. He did it.... using cult tactics-- including behaviorist tactics-- a brand of psychology that treats man as animal-- and using "public relations" tactics-- a descendent of Nazi mind control tactics. They think they can make cryonics "succeed" in this way. I'm their fly in the ointment-- only because I have a wide enough background to recognize their tactics, and a long enough history in cryonics to recognize the reality of the situation.

Eventually, I'll get that anglefire page removed. And then there will be a period of silence from my on the blogs and webpages, as much as possible regarding cryonics. I'm old enough now-- 52-- that I don't have time for this kind of thing anymore. I'm doing some pretty serious research on dental problems-- and I'm getting deeper into it all the time and find it fascinating. My teeth are good but not perfect-- and I've hit upon some things that the ADA and dentist community are lying to us about. It's huge. But that's another story.

Let this Cult Awareness Forum be a record of this attack on me by cryonicists-- for the NEXT guy that comes along with my moxy to go into the cryonics tunnel to verify and discover for themselves what cryonics is made of. To Sparky here-- the issue is not whether cryonics works NOW or not. The IDEA of cryonics is freeze WAIT reanimate... in other words, the process involves the creation of the new technology to reanimate WHILE our current cryonicists are on ice. That's an entirely different debate. Cryonics in and of itself is NOT a "cult"-- the way I look at it-- if you want to talk about that. However cryonics has been taken OVER by cultish people who use reductionism, attack methods, behaviorism, and phony defintions and revisionist history-- etc... to get their way. They fear academic honesty.

The starting point for cryonics for the 21st century, in my view, will have to be Rick Ross's cult forum-- because here was the only location on the net where I was able to "breathe" life into my "complaint" and get some modicum of understanding and feedback. I'll look at more of Rick Ross's work in the future. For now-- my work involves changing that Angelfire page.

Interestingly, Maxim has just responded to my comment in her blog about AntiCult's analysis of non-profits and profit centers... see the last comment on her blog entry here...

[cryomedical.blogspot.com]

I know for a fact that Saul Kent mailed out literature for the profit seeking vitamin company he has in envelopes that indicated postage of a non-profit foundation. I have no idea if that's legal or not-- it just seemed to me at the time to be weird. I know nothing of how foundations, profits and non profits work, so I'm not one to consult with on this. However-- I can say that I'm a big fan of "follow the money" when there's a problem somewhere. In this case, I would say follow the money.

The other edict that I popped on my dentist the other day was the saying attributed to Jesus-- "the LOVE OF MONEY is the root-- the ROOT-- !!!??? --- of ALL... ALL... "evil". Hmmm... the LOVE of money. Well if you combine FOLLOW the money with the LOVE of money being the root of evil... is it so farfetched to say that what we have in cryonics is not NECCESSARILY a cult in the ordinary sense but a FRONT? A sort of "money cult" that appears to be a "religious cult"-- that uses cryonics as a front?

This gets tricky because the actual cryonics situation-- is in and of itself-- regarded as a cult by many.
So we have layers here. The money-cult in cryonics is hiding behind the cult component of cryonics. It's a complicated "scheme" of profit co's, non-profits, foundations and willing participants, as well as things like CADC. There are EVEN multiple foundations at Alcor's physical address-- unknown to Alcor members-- such as BodyChill Insitute.

[www.google.com]

The use of foundations goes back to the claim that Bob Nelson froze the first man-- Dr. James Bedford-- a tv repairman whose son created and head the Bedford Foundation-- which ultimately failed to provide funding for Dr. Bedford's cryonics plan-- and later seems to have provided his son Norman with an airplane and lots of vacation time. Here's part of that convoluated story...

[www.google.com]

My point is that from the VERY FIRST noted cryopreservation-- which was actually the second, but that's another story-- you see the creation of a foundation-- and the movement of money in unexpected directions. Cryonics, if you're cynical, MIGHT be nothing more than a science fiction front, for the operation of foundations for the connivance of money moving in undectable ways. The "crazy cryonics idea" acts as a distraction and front for the money game behind the scenes.... somehow.

The points of reference are the inconsistencies found by Maxim in the operation of SA Inc, Maxim being a professional perfusionist who understands what consistutes real cryonics work-- something cryonics faced for the first time in its history. I noted Maxim as cryonics man of the year in 2007. I noted CADC as cryonics man of the year in 2008 for their unrelenting attacks on me-- entire dedicated blogs to attacking every angle of every single thing I wrote on the net-- to attempt to discredit me. This year-- I think what's happening is I'm seeing Rick Ross as cryonics man of the year for accepting my posts and analysis here to continue to counter CADC and to take what would be the legitimate cynical view of cryonics-- which cryonics SHOULD be able to pass IF it's competely honest.... so I'm not afraid of talking to Rick Ross. In fact, I'd like cryonics to be able to pass through Rick Ross's filters to see what we see.

For cryonics to "work" or "succeed" on any level, we need the truth. I love understanding the truth.