I've just negotiated a deal with Webspawner where they have closed the account with my name on it to anyone, permanently. This is what should have happened originally I argued, similar to how blogger and network54 handle their deleted accounts. Had I not made that case, SDC would have kept the page up to try to intimidate me with further threats of posting deleterious remarks on my own page, linked to my easily findable-on-google Angelfire homepage.

There was no need for the hijacking in the first place, let alone the insistance on it once discovered. SDC/CADC continue to hold me hostage by threatening to harrass my real name if I blog on cryonics using blogger so this situation is not completely resolved, but the latest hot button issue for me that I could not accept has been resolved. Thanks again to Rick Ross's cult-awareness forum for being a sounding board for this. I'll mull over my cryonics membership seriously, as I think about the bigger implications of all of this, including the typical cryonicists' thinking that this case is about "me"-- rather than an example of a larger attitude in cryonics.

I'll be purusing Rick Ross's site here more extensively in coming months because I think he probably has some valuable insight into psychology and group thinking that I had not really delved into too far before. I thanked webspawner for helping me in this case, and although I would have preferred the account back, I can understand why they would have simply closed it permanently. It's a much more standard approach that way to deleted accounts that will serve them well for similar cases in the future.

From The Anticult:

QUOTE:"Obviously, cryonics has to be regulated by a government body, with regular surprise inspections and complete audits.
This is what the cryonics companies will do anything to block". UNQUOTE.

Man, this is REALLY needed to put an end to the cult-nature of these criminals. They need to be driven out of business. If a sincere scientific org wishes to head a reformed cryonics up (with government oversight as The Anitcult and our new non-cultic cryonic supporter PhilOssifur have alleged) then all power to them. I may not agree with them(until peer reviewed journals on cryonics) being the stone-cold skeptic I am but I would welcome the argument leaving the realm of "Wah-Wah" land of lunacy and rainbows and into the realm of science.

Until then, EVERYONE should cancel their membership with all cult cryonic groups and especially the apparently vicious and money-grubbing Mark Plus and his attack dogs trying to greedily rip off and defame critical members like PhilOssifur.

Sparky, you should know that your comments here are being used by Mark Plus to discredit the entire cult forum. Observe...

[www.network54.com].

That's a comment by Mark Plus in Cold Filter. He's watching everything here. So when you write that Mark is money grubbing and "has" attack dogs, you're making unsubstantiated conclusions that are only possibly partly valid. I know Mark personally and I know his situation roughly. It's possible he's CADC/sdc... but I can't confirm it. I'm getting readings from microsoft campus in WA state and from London England on the IP so far. With ip masks, anything is possible.

Mark is active on the net and he has gone along with CADC/sdc attacks on me-- but I'm not making conclusions yet. In any case, the distinction between the cultish component of cryonics and what can be called honest cryonics doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion that "they need to be driven out of business". That does not follow. As a cult-forum participant here, I would urge you to think more carefully. It makes me look bad when you sympathize with my situation and then say things like that. I'm not interested in "driving anyone out of business".

The honest and scientific validity of cryonics is not the issue in this thread in the cult forum. What we can say is that we need to make finer distinctions between the category of criticism of cryonics... in this case-- we need to understand the difference between cryonics per se and the way that cryonics companies are currently conducting themselves. It's much like anything else in life where finer distinctions lead to deeper understanding. Eskimoes have 50 different words for various kinds of snow. We have a handful. Wine connissuers can make fine distinctions that I have no way to detect. As a musician I can detect fine distinctions between an augemented 5th and an augmented fifth with a flat nine. Valid criticism of cryonics must go into finer distinctions. Broad brushstrokes like "they need to be driven out of business" are seen as ignorant... and in this case, in this forum, it doesn't do ME any good to be associated with a view like that. In fact, it's downright potentially dangerous to me. So... please be more careful about how you characterize me and what conclusions are to be drawn. Thanks.

The other conclusion you make-- cancelling memberships-- is also a careless broad brushstroke that has the effect of painting me into a corner with you-- which I can't allow to be unchallenged here, since our visibility has increased. The issue in the latest round of posts to this thread-- was simply the hijacking of the webspawner page-- which I've resolved. The larger issue is the harrassment of SDC in general by the cult-component of cryonics. The solution is to expose and defang the cult-component of cryonics--- carefully and astutely-- so that we're left with a more honest and transparent cryonics industry that does not have to attack me. Once that's done, then we have an intact trade with clients who fully comprehend the service being offerred and which trade promotes itself in an honest way.

Separating the cult-component of anything from the valid-component is tricky business and hard work. But-- I think cult-forum readers, judging by the excellent reading list here, is up to it. Thanks for you consideration.

I ran a professional search on stopdefamingcryonics.com-- and the company that ran it says the following---

quote

We're sorry, but after a licensed investigator ran your search across hundreds of millions of records, the owner's name and address STILL wasn't found. (This very rarely happens!)


Anyway, as our website states, you are entitled to an immediate refund of your purchase. I have sent the refund for processing, and your credit card statement will show a credit within 1-10 business days.


Sorry we couldn't be of more service to you. If you need anything in the future, please let me know, and I hope our company will be your "go to" destination for future people and phone search needs!


Sincerely,


Henry
Customer Support


UNQUOTE


My comment-- This is interesting because it means that SDC is very computer and net literate-- to hide so well. That in itself is a clue. Other backlinks I've checked indicate a location of Redmond WA and London. Redmond is the location of Microsoft. London has an active CI cryonics outpost I believe. Both of these clues are somewhat inconsistent with the Mark Plus theory-- so we're back to AntiCults methods of word-analysis and word-frequency which would be a new round of work which I'm not up to. In any case, I'm attempting to put this round to rest... but given that this was a loose end, I thought I'd submit it to complete this round. SDC has hidden their identity well-- and the conlusion you can make is that the cryonics-cult-component security guards know how to stay underground. Given their tactics, this makes commenting on cryonics potentially more dangerous. I've known cryonicists who admired the tactics of some religions to have "teeth" in "defending themselves"... so this is consistent with the current situation in cryonics.

Hopefully, Mark won't make any more comments in Cold Filter that will neccessitate my having to qualify them here-- and we'll end this "round" of "debate" such as it is. My real name has been bandied about enough-- the corrections have been made sufficiently for anyone looking at me online to see the countermoves and so we're now at a point of neutral tension... which should be sufficient for everyone to walk away from the table.

Golly. I hope Mark Plus doesn't get P-Oed at me and take me off of his X-mas card list. I didn't mean to infer that the current cryonic people are running the place like a classic cult by definition and are not accountable to people who give them their cold (pun intended) hard cash. I know that everyone out there that is involved as a patient/client of Mark Plus and the cryonic movement in general (as currently run) have clear quarterly statements and accountablity BY OUTSIDE AGENCIES sent to them so they can see that Mark Plus and his org are not misusing monies and mean nothing but benevolence for one and all.

If no clear transparency with OUTSIDE accounting is being presented to the patients/clients then the people should take that into consideration.

A good movie for everyone involved is "Boiler Room". Beware of frauds, everyone.

P.S. I am a big boy. If I am out of line with the posting regulations here, I encourage correction from the moderator(s).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 08:30AM by Sparky.

The reality is whoever in the Cryonics community created those Usenet posts, is a profoundly disturbed individual, a sane person can't read more than a few lines of it.
The only thing it reminds one of, is the other vicious and vile threats that have been made against other cryonics whistleblowers. Those threatening letters were online a while back, perhaps they will come back. But those other cryonics threats have to have come out of the same disturbed mind as those Usenet posts. Those certainly came from the same poison pen and mind.

And notice how the poster Go6 posting here had to link to those posts? He's proud of his disturbed handiwork, its that same bizarre sense of "humor", we have seen over and over. He doesn't even see or comprehend that those vile tactics do not work on people, they backfire 100%.

Which other cryonics critics and whistleblowers have been personally attacked in such an extreme manner?

In this sense, that part is similar to Scientology, in that once they mark you as as a fair-game enemy, they will go after the person with extreme prejudice.
Someone has to know who this disturbed person is in the cryonics company food-chain. Either there is some crazy loose cannon, or a small group of people are deliberately using extreme threats and extreme personal attacks as a power-tactic to try and silence any whistleblowers, or even basic critics.

Frankly, its probably latter. They know if the "make an example" out of a few people, it will make others afraid. They also use the same FEAR tactics in their marketing.
Its pretty standard stuff in these types of corrupt organizations.

Quote
PhilOssifur
I do not have an accurate idea of who created the usenet posts-- they were signed using my name-- another form of hijacking, complete with accurate middle initial. I supposed it was Go6 himself since he was actively harassing me at the time those messages appeared. I could do a professional search on it and might if SDC research turns up anything.

its also their libertarian and survivalist belief systems.
But it also gives them absolute power and control over the corpse and over the money.
No one REALLY knows who is still even in those Alcor containers, for example.
Do you think if something went wrong with one of the containers, and the bodies were thawed and had to be cremated, that they would tell anyone? Of course not.
No one on the outside really knows what is going on behind closed doors.

and the fact that the cryonics people go psychotic to personally attack whistleblowers, makes one very very suspicious.
What are the cryonics companies trying to hide and suppress from public knowledge?

Quote
PhilOssifur
To that I would say an enterprising younger cryonicist might want to study the "ostensible" reasons cryonicists "say" they don't want regulations-- to see if that line of reasoning is consistent with reality or with the what you're saying is the swindle.

Why worry about what "Mark Plus" posts? He's into the cryonics business up to his neck, and he has some skill at using words to try and manipulate people.
He is either assigned, or self-assigned to do internet cryonics propaganda, that is his job, but he makes a lot of mistakes.

At one moment, he is gloating about a whistleblower book possibly being suppressed, the next minute he is claiming he wanted it published, previously he was making dubious comments on Amazon.com about the books contents, etc. Its all attempts at tactics.

But all Mark Plus can try to do is smear smear smear.
Does Mark Plus have any training in neurology, or brain science, or medicine? Of course not.
According to reports, Mark Plus (which is a fake name from the Extropians, by the way), works for David Pizer, as explained earlier.

David Pizer is the marketing man, as shown earlier in the thread, he's a professional salesman, again with ZERO scientific or technical training. Its just a business to them. They think they COULD make many millions if they can get into the marketplace. That's why he wanted to set up Ventureville, and the rest of it.
And to them cryonics is also a "religion". Literally. As shown before they have their Venturist religion, which they are probably just cynically using for the tax-benefits, and so they can tap into the psychological desire for "IMMORTALITY" just like any other religion.


Frankly, people should cancel their cryonics contracts, if they are worried about the company.
There should be NEW companies set-up, that are regulated, monitored, totally open, completely audited.
But they would NEVER let that happen.
First, they would try to crush it, or just take it over.

For cryonics and transhumanism idealists, perhaps this all seems rather new. But in the racket of abusive and self-serving "non-profits" like the ones discussed on this forum, it business as usual.

These cryonics companies are behaving pretty much like all the other self-serving "non-profits", and many of those are controlled by actual cultish groups. Name one cultish group WITHOUT a non-profit organization. They all have strings of them.
Non-profit, just mean they can't MAKE a profit, they have to SPEND their money inside the organization, which is great, if you run it.

The only real wild-card in the cryonics racket, other than the "death" thing, is the extreme viciousness and disturbed behavior of some people high-up in the cryonics organizations.
Who is it? Someone knows who it is.
How far will they go?
Do they really mean it, or are they just trying to frighten people, and use "terror" as a persuasion tool?

They constantly use FEAR in their marketing. David Pizer has done it over and over. They know that fear sells, fear works. Fear of "losing immortality" to a cryonicist is serious stuff.
So if they are deliberately using fear in their marketing, its reasonable they would use the same fear-tactics to try and frighten anyone who asks questions.

That being said, there is at least one, if not a small group of people with extreme fanatical beliefs at the core of the cryonics business, as seen in the extremely disturbing and disturbed theats and comments that have been written by that person or persons.

Their message is clear.
What are they going to do to the "frozen corpse" of a cryonics person, who they had labelled a critic or enemy?
Remember the threats they made about that too? about what they would do to the body?

[forum.culteducation.com]
That psychopath threatened to kill a dog, and exchange part of its brain, with a human brain, in the cryonics process.
That is the same person making those threats, as making the Usenet posts, and probably making the other threats as well. Its all coming from the same disturbed place.

Here you have someone who is claiming to be associated with Alcor or the so-called cryonics Go6 somehow? (notice they posted here too as Go6).
Who is threatening an actual person, that his brain is going to be mutilated and mixed with a murdered dog brain, during the cryonics process?

And these same people have done countless cryonics dog experiments, where dogs have been killed and cut-up.
And these same people are literally cutting the heads off corpses in there before they freeze them.
That is not some idle threat. They could do it.

And Alcor allows that post to stand.

_____________________________________
QUOTE:
[www.network54.com]
"... this is what I heard from the group of 6--that when you are cryopreserved, they are going to kill a dog and cut out a big part of its brain, and cut out a big part of your brain and swap the two parts. They will they cryopreserve both you AND the dog.
THat way when you are revived, you will be part dog, and the dog will be part you."
____________________________________________



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 12:42PM by The Anticult.

It all seems that it should come down to government (State/fed) regulation of these "services". Hell, a realtor, insurance agent, attorney OR DOCTOR OR NURSE need to be licensed with the various state's they reside in, why not cryonics?

The state's are in deep financial doo-doo these days...now might be a GREAT TIME to contact the state representatives at the state capitals where these cryonics tanks/offices are located. Make them get licensed and pay an annual fee. Better yet, until they bring a human back to life, why don't the states simply make them be closely regulated and spot-inspected LIKE ALL FUNERAL SERVICE PROVIDERS. Once they can successfully thaw out and re-animate a corpse, the state can change the licensing to MEDICAL SERVICES, with all the reams of paperwork, state and federal spot inspections and educational requirements that go along with that.

Getting cryonics listed as a MEDICAL SERVICE might be a brilliant move for them. Sure, now transparancy becomes a thorn in their side and they will have to keep everything on the up and up or go to jail, but think of the monies they can skim from insurance companies who may pay for cryonics?

Finally...if all else fails, send the posts of killing dogs and experiementing on them to PETA or ALF. PETA vs Mark Plus (Go6)?...I'd put my money on PETA.

The irony of course, is that "cryonics" doesn't actually even "exist".
The corpses these cryonics companies are taking in, are actually already covered under the Uniform Anatomical Gift Act.
Of course the cryonics companies understand all this, but they try to use fluffy words in their letters, to mislead their clients, who are Idealists and blinded by their desire for immortality.

All of the dead bodies they are taking in are covered under the Uniform Anatomical Gift Act, and "Body donation is not regulated through licensure and inspection by the federal government and most states". [forum.culteducation.com]
So this is why they want to keep the status quo.
The reality is that these folks are legally dead, and so they no longer exist.
The frozen corpses are in the same legal area as if you donate your body to science at death. If you do so, then perhaps medical students will practice dissection on the body, then it may be cut into countless pieces, and certain tissues used for countless experiments around the country.
Then it is disposed of according to the Act. (if they follow the rules, but no one is watching).

So that is what covers these bodies, they are donated research tissue, to be used at will, and then disposed of.
Some people have been caught throwing human tissue in the regular garbage, some were caught selling human skin, eyeballs, etc. There is a corrupt blackmarket in that area.

Those little cover-letters sent out by the cryonics companies don't mean anything.
Its the Uniform Anatomical Gift Act, people have donated their body to the cryonics company.

Also, what about the fact that cryonics people are NOT donating their organs at death? One person can save many lives with organ donation.
The reality is the cryo-freezing is destroying the entire body anyway. So even if "the future" ever can do anything about that, "cloning an organ" would be childsplay.
So there is no problem for a person to donate their organs at death to save others lives.

The reality is that maybe sometime in the future, they could use some cells in primate cloning, and for that, one would only need to freeze some cells.
But not much money in that.

But have no fear, Alcor will freeze your pets to exploit Yuppie denial of death, so they will freeze anything else too if it pays.
One has to wonder, those who "love" their pets so much to freeze them, why don't they care about the hundreds(?) of dogs which have been cruelly tortured and killed by cryonics people?

Daisy, Alcor and Mike Darwin Federowicz [forum.culteducation.com]
Why isn't that in the newspaper advertisements about "freezing pets"?
What about all the dogs who have been tortured and killed by cryonics people, in completely pointless and inhumane ways? That is not science, its antiscience. There are no scientific papers written.
Nothing was accomplished, other than torturing innocent dogs like Daisy.


a Church of Transhumanism Cryonics [forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 11:33PM by The Anticult.