In this thread a bizarre nasty cryonics sub-group was mentioned, called the The Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee.

These appear to be the same basic group of people in cryonics called The Group Of Six, or Go6. (Gang of 6).
Does anyone know where the names of this Group of 6 cryonics attack-dogs are posted online?
Are any of the cryonics Go6 connected with any of the cryonics companies, like Alcor or the others?

Speaking of dogs, there were bizarre comments made against some person who was blogging about cryonics and criticizing Alcor, going apparently by the name "Phil" and Rick Potvin?
The Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee even created a blog to attack this person.
[richardbpotvin.blogspot.com]
There are also many posts about Rick Potvin on Cold Filter and Cryonet. There is obviously a lot to the story, but there is another incredibly bizarre alleged threat here.
[www.network54.com]
According to this post above, this person is registered with Alcor to get frozen at death, and if this person criticizes Alcor while alive, there are "veiled threats" being made that will get a "bad suspension" or not even get frozen at all.

As noted previously in this thread, it was reported that Alcor cancelled a guys contract from overseas, with no proper notice. Obviously, that is using fear to force people to pay in cash up-front, anyone can see that.


Notice this is the EXACT SAME PATTERN of using FEAR to intimidate and motivate people. They use FEAR to sell cryonics, and they use FEAR to keep people in line, and to keep their mouths shut.
So for a person who believes in cryonics and is signed up, they would be threatening his "eternal life". They have absolute power over these people, once they get the insurance policy signed over, and the irrevocable trust set-up, and even get a power of attorney concerning financial and health matters at death. Just think about that, if you are totally signed up, then this small group of unelected, self-perpetuating people have absolute power over you, your body, your money, your assets, and even your life itself near the point of death. The abuses that are possible due to this extreme level of power being handed over have not been examined at all in the cryonics community.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and these cryonics companies can end up with literally absolute power over a person who believes in cryonics and is irrevocably signed-up for cryonics.

There are many fringe religions and cultish groups who use this exact same power over their followers when they tell their followers if they misbehave, then their God will not give them eternal life. This gives them incredible power over people.

The cryonics abuses fall into the exact same pattern, except there is no God in cryonics. They are God.
If you don't do what they tell you to do, they could pull the plug on your frozen corpse one night, and no one will ever know about it. They can even then legally dispose of the frozen human experimental tissue (you). No one is going to know about it, even if it happened by mistake, due to the bad PR.

This is absolute power, and its going to corrupt human beings.
This power MUST be taken out of the hands of a small secretive sect of high-priests at some cryonics company, as its open to endless abuse, even possible forms of extortion or worse.

but it gets worse. Some sadist made comments against this guy..
_____________________________________
QUOTE:
[www.network54.com]
"... this is what I heard from the group of 6--that when you are cryopreserved, they are going to kill a dog and cut out a big part of its brain, and cut out a big part of your brain and swap the two parts. They will they cryopreserve both you AND the dog.
THat way when you are revived, you will be part dog, and the dog will be part you."
____________________________________________

That sadist threatened to kill a dog, and exchange part of its brain, with a human brain, in the cryonics process.

Here is the really disturbing part. Some people in cryonics have apparently being doing some type of cryonics experiments on live dogs? What are they doing? Have they been killing the dogs first, or doing the cryonics process on live dogs, then freezing them, and then trying to unfreeze them? All they are going to end up with blackened mutilated dead dogs.
There needs to be some investigation done into EXACTLY what these people are doing with these dogs, and other animals.

Meolody Maxim has a recent blog post about searching for information about the cryonics experiments on dogs.
[cryomedical.blogspot.com]

Also take note, that the cryonics companies are exploiting people's emotional attachment to their dogs and pets, by SELLING cryonics freezing of people's pets for profit.


The question is, who are the members of this small gang of firearm-loving cryonics leaders, the Group of 6, who appear to be running around trying to intimidate anyone who criticizes cryonics?
Do cryonics people really want to put themselves under the absolute power of some secretive sect of cryonics profiteers?
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see who has taken over the cryonics business, which they are trying to turn into a business worth hundreds of millions, or even billions in the near future.

regarding the cryonics experiments on dogs.
There is another area where it appears no one in the cryonics business has even asked a basic question.
The only person asking any questions about it, appears to be Melody Maxim in a recent blog post.
[cryomedical.blogspot.com]

For example, the US Animal Welfare Act requires laboratories to report the number of animals used in experiments.
Where are the numbers of dogs used in cryonics experiments reported?

Again, there are reports that a person going by the name "Mike Darwin" did cryonics experiments on dogs. Is that true? Where are the reports?

Please read the blog post above by Melody Maxim, as she seems to be trying to find out who has been doing these cryonics experiments on dogs.

Where is the full disclosure?
Where did they get the dogs?
Were the cryonics experiments done on "live" dogs, or were they killed first?
Are they allowed to kill dogs?

Have Animal Welfare laws been broken, doing these cryonics experiments on dogs?


___________________________________________
[www.nal.usda.gov]

Public Law 99-198 Food Security Act of 1985, Subtitle F - Animal Welfare
Also called "The Improved Standards for Laboratory Animals Act" and enacted December 23, 1985, this section clarifies what is meant by "humane care" by mentioning specifics such as sanitation, housing, and ventilation. It directs the Secretary of Agriculture to establish regulations to provide exercise for dogs and an adequate physical environment to promote the psychological well-being of nonhuman primates. It specifies that pain and distress must be minimized in experimental procedures and that alternatives to such procedures be considered by the principle investigator. It also defines practices that are considered to be painful. No animal can be used in more than one major operative experiment with recovery (exceptions are listed). The establishment of the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC) is introduced with a description of its roles, composition, and responsibilities to the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS). Also included is the formation of an information service at the National Agricultural Library to assist those regulated by the act in prevention of unintended duplication of research, employee training, searching for ways to reduce or replace animal use, and to provide information on how to decrease pain and distress. The final section explains the penalties for release of trade secrets by regulators and the regulated community. [Full Text]
_________________________________

Here's an interesting "coincidence" going back a year. Someone posting under the ID

Mark Plus - advancedatheist

was the very person who posted a link to that infantile attack blog by The Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee mentioned above.


____________________________
[www.network54.com].
He Who Must Not Be Named has a fan blog.
January 12 2008 at 5:50 PM
Mark Plus (Login advancedatheist) Veteran Member

Cryonics Defamer Rick Potvin ....... AKA Philossifur
[richardbpotvin.blogspot.com]
________________________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2009 02:55PM by The Anticult.

Here's another amazing coincidence, in an previously mentioned article.

a photo of a group of 5 cryonicists, referenced as "The Beginnings of a Cryonics Community in Arizona".

David Pizer, Joe Hovey, Bill Hayworth, Hugh Hixon and Mike Perry
[www.imminst.org]
Gee whiz, how many of that group of 5 cryonics guys are associated with Alcor and Venturism? All of them? Imagine that.
They even mention adding one more person to the group in that article.


David Pizer - Society of Venturism - Creekside (AZ)
[imminst.org]

As a free bonus, below is a quote from the thread...one is certain the local officials are thrilled to know that they get the "red carpet rolled out" and get "free" stuff, from their buddies at The Creekside Lodge & Society for Venturism.
Every local government official loves "free" stuff.


[imminst.org]
"To this end Dave is carrying out a major "in-house" public relations campaign to win over the local community. The Mayer Fire Department, Sheriff's Dept., Chamber of Commerce, Realtor's Group, Senior Citizens organization, you name it, get the red carpet rolled out for them and for very little, or for free get to hold their meetings here, believe me, it is an invitation they heartily accept.".

one of the main problems in "cryonics" which allows the corruption in cryonics, is that so many of the believers in cryonics, and the transhumanists, seem to be utterly naive idealists, when it comes to the realities of business, marketing, money, corruption, and human beings.

For example, they assume that a "non-profit" is better than a for-profit organization. This is actually incorrect. A public company has far more oversight, than these so-called non-profits, which are rife with abuse.
A non-profit board, can hire their associates, friends, and even themselves as consultants.
There have been many cases, where a non-profit boards have hired unqualified associates to do "PR" for example, at 6 figure salaries. No one even knows what happens to that money.
Some of it could even be secretly kicked-back to board members in cash, for example, or various other "contra-deals", and bogus "research" money for their cronies.
Money goes into random "expenses", rent, car leases, LAND PURCHASES, etc. It can be a cash-cow for those who control the board of the non-profit.

Another problem with cryonics, is the false advertising of the cryonics Pascal's Wager, where they say you can't lose by doing it. That is also false. For example, there are many downsides to it.
There are insurance problems, as once the policy is owned by the cryonics company, then you lose control of it. Also, cryonics companies then upsell people away from insurance, as they spread fear of insurance companies not paying out benefits, so they try to get people to pay in cash up front.
So on a personal level, you are taking money away from your children's education, for example. There are psychological costs to the families, as they don't know where the body is, or if it even exists anymore.
There are many downsides. This is not even including the bogus ideas about setting up these bogus "trusts for yourself", which are really just turning free-money over to the cryonics companies. A teenager could see through that one.

Also, putting money into these cryonics companies, hinders real research and science, in areas that may one day lead to real life extension.

A person would have to be extremely naive or foolish to trust any of these so-called current cryonics companies. They have to be completely regulated, with complete open books, detailing every dollar of expense, audited by 3rd parties.
Right now, there is almost no real analysis of the cryonics companies, as they are under the radar. They have their associates and hired consultants write blogs and get articles in the paper if they can.
Other associates pitch their bogus financial schemes, which Bernie Madoff would probably have loved to have had a finger in.

But the real problem seems to be the lack of curiosity and basic business common sense of many of the folks who supposedly believe in cryonics. Of course, they cryonics companies could be putting out bogus numbers of the number of people involved.

The irony is that the serious critics of cryonics are the ones who are the ones who could help cryonics and life extension in the future! The real enemies of cryonics or possible future life extension, are the few dozen people who make their living off it at present.

Cryonics has to be regulated.

Otherwise, you'll risk having your ass frozen off.

All joking aside, what are the prospects for successful resurrection if someone incurs freezer burn?

What if the custodians of a cryonics firm succumb to the temptation to gamble in the stock market and are unable
to pay the bills to keep everyone frozen?"

In the event of a local disaster, what if the back up generator doesnt kick in and keep the freezer running?

well, of course, the tiny group of people running the cryonics biz do not want any serious regulation, as they don't want to be held accountable for where all the millions of dollars have gone, and are going, and will go. (into their salaries and expenses).

Also, they know damn well "cryonics" can't really be regulated anyway. Why?
Because all the corpses in the backroom are legally fucking DEAD DEAD DEAD. They know the game.

You're dead, and they have your money. That's the end of it. Case closed.

If the freezers go offline, they cremate the remains. Its all legal, and they do it now, as people donate their body as biological research tissue, like giving your body to med students to cut up, or do experiments on skin, slice up the brain, etc.
Its amazing that almost every person interested in cryonics seems to think they are still a "person" after they are legally dead. They are not a person anymore, and have no rights as a person.
They also have NO RIGHTS even of a normal corpse in a cemetary, as they have signed away the rights to their body as biological research tissue.
They are legally and factually simply biological research tissue, end of story.

The guys running cryonics know all the rules and laws, and they know its smoke and mirrors.
That is why they promote the Fear Marketing so much, to try and lure people in who don't know any better.
That is why they call the dead bodies "patients" to dupe their customers. You are not a "patient", its a technical term from their contract. (that should be made illegal to call a legally dead corpse a "patient" as that is fraud).

And that is why they force all of the insiders to sign non-disclosure agreements and keep everything secret, which has created the cultish mindset and behavior and threats.

Since they are dealing with people who have signed their dead corpses over for biological research, the cryonics companies know damn well they are in the clear. No one can touch them, after you sign your body over for research. They just have to dupe naive people to sign their body and money over, and then they are free and clear. That's reality.

There would have to be new laws written especially for cryonics, and the Gov won't write those laws, as there is no such thing as "cryonics" in law. Just dead bodies donated for research tissue, which happens everyday for medical research.

No wonder these weird fringe groups get rich so easy, and tax-free too.
The whole thing should be investigated by the FTC. Since there is no proof their claims are real, its a scam.

But that is why they want to make it a "religion", so they are untouchable. They will use the criticism of their behavior, to create more FEAR in their members, and use this fear as a motivator to drive people into a cryonics religion, like Venturism, which will give them more secrecy and power.
They will also use FEAR to get people to pay in advance as they create doubt over the insurance pay-outs too.

You'd have to be nuts to turn your dead body and money over to these people. Its a transparent scamola of the first order.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2009 05:00AM by The Anticult.

There is a little information out there about the so-called dog experiments by Alcor and cryonics people. Meolody Maxim did a blog post on animal experimentation ins cryonics. [cryomedical.blogspot.com]

But there is a heartbreaking and depressing story about a dog named Daisy, that was used by Alcor and Mike Darwin Federowicz in some pointless and cruel so-called "experiments".
If any reasonable person reads even their own "report" of what happened, you are struck by how cruel and utterly incompetent they are. And this is their own account, there is no one checking into what really happened, in this and other cases.

These so-called cryonics dog experiments, are not science. Science is not Dr. Frankenstein experiments, and you can see Mike Darwin even refers to himself as doing a Frankenstein experiment, even making perverse jokes about it.
This is being done to a live dog named Daisy.
Where did he get this dog? Did they buy it from the local dog-pound? If so, did the local animal shelter know this dog was going to be tortured in this manner?

He has one moment of remorse for what he is going to do to this poor dog, and then he says he looked down at his hands, saw it was aging, and though he must do this "experiment". The complete lack of a basic ethical framework with these folks is unbelievable.

Mike Darwin (Michael Federowicz) is not doing science with these so-called experiments. First off, where is the scientific paper? There is none.
But more importantly, science does not progress by taking live dogs and draining their blood, and injecting them with poison in this manner. This is something that would be disgraceful in the Middle Ages.

Anyone with a grain of scientific training, or basic common sense, would know there is no point to torturing dogs in this cruel manner. Scientific advances would come out of careful micro-experiments with tissue samples, carefully written up in published papers, using the scientific method.

But please force yourself to read this cruel farce they publish on their own website, you won't believe what is there.
Bringing Dixie Back [www.alcor.org]
And this is what they are proud of! What haven't they put in a web-diary? What about all the other dogs?
Its clear they were willing to kill this dog named Daisy in the experiment, and that would have be kinder than this terrible prolonged torture, which clearly caused brain damage, and seizures to the dog, and other horrible pain and ill-effects to his poor body. Its unbelievable even what they describe, never mind what they left out.
I will list what they did to Daisy, but at the moment I can't stomach that level of animal cruelty done in such an ignorant fashion. Please read that posting before they remove it.
Bringing Dixie Back [www.alcor.org]
Anyone who believes this dog ultimately survived this cruel torture, without hard evidence like a notarized vet-report, is dangerously naive. Daisy would have had to be euthanized after all the terrible damage done.
Even in wikipedia, they make claims that they have a "world record" in dog resuscitation, yet there is NO EVIDENCE.
Where are the papers? Where are the notarized reports from an independent Vet?


Michael Federowicz is a disgrace to the name of "Darwin" which he adopted as his fake-name for cryonics. Charles Darwin was a great scientist, and Mike Federowicz has no right to use that name.
He even brags about freezing and killing animals since he was a child. What is that a sign of?
Enough with the killing and freezing of animals. How many animals does have to kill in this manner, before he realizes it doesn't work?

Its shocking that people can even get away with this.

One of the other strange things, about "believers" in cryonics, is that they often appear to display no basic sense of the nature of the business of so-called "non-profit" companies.
For example, some seem to think there is no serious money to be made in cryonics.

But that is obviously not accurate.
For example, Alcor says they have about 1000 people signed up. (who knows if that is true, or false).
Now, the insurance packages go for about 150K per corpse, and they push for much more.
And as anyone can see, cryonics companies are pushing to get people to pay in cash up-front, using fear as a motivator. And they are also pitching these "trusts" which are the same thing. Turning your assets over to the cryonics company.

So just do the basic math.
1000 x $150,000 = $150,000,000
That is at least 150 million dollars payable over a period of time, and these folks are not getting any younger, and that income is 100% secure, as the only certainties in life are death and taxes. (and these companies don't have to pay tax!)

And that can easily be doubled with the various other schemes they are marketing.
If they sign up another 1000 people, that is already around 500 million dollars right there in the near future. This is what they are aiming for, and they are aiming far beyond that.

So even though cryonics has not been massive business so far, that is what they are shooting for.
As far as how they use the money they now have, why do they hire their buddies at such high rates, when they could hire professionals at much lower rates? Because when people control non-profits like this, they often hire their friends, and themselves at the maximum rate they can charge! That is very common. $100,000 a year for some consulting work, is pretty sweet.
And these companies don't pay taxes, so its even sweeter for those who control the board.

It obvious those controlling cryonics want to make it seem like some mom-pop operation. But its not.
Currently they are worth millions of dollars in real assets, with very tiny real expenses.
They may hold 150 million in insurance policies. Insurance policies can be borrowed against, and even sold for cash by the owner. These companies own those policies. Again, people don't seem to think about these things.

And the cryonics companies obviously want to turn it into a billion dollar business, and they believe they can do it, with marketing and advertising.
Cryonics can easily become a very serious cash-cow.
The funeral business is a multi-billion dollar industry, and those are $1,000-$15,000 funerals.
So a cryonics "funeral" is 10-150 times more expensive, or even 300 times more expensive.
So with only a small amount of members, in the thousands, they are going into the billions.
On top of that, due to being tax-exempt, that is leveraged even higher.
And people are not going to stop dying anytime soon.

And PET FUNERALS are booming, and this is why they are doing Pet Cryonics, as they will make a fortune off thattoo.
(how many of these pet owners know about all of the dogs that have been killed in cryonics experiments so far?)

The stakes are very high for their business, and that is why they react in such a vicious manner. They are shooting to become billion dollar cryonics companies. If they can make that happen, then they control those assets.
This ain't a mom-pop store.
This is probably what has led to the alleged "threats" that have been made against cryonics whistleblowers. For them, this is not a hobby, its serious business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 03:27AM by The Anticult.

Hello to Rick Ross and other cult-awareness fans. I'm PhilOssifur. I still want to maintain anonymity despite the real name above.

It's true-- I'm signed up for cryonics and I think that there is a reasonable way to look at it. However-- I still do not believe that the current power-holders in cryonics are being reasonable. For the moment, I would like to briefly relay to you my tale of woe-- with regard to another angle on CADC's personal attacks on me-- that is current as of May 2009. Your forum appears now to be the only open forum available to me-- astonishingly enough-- to talk about.... cryonics and the issues around it. What a paradox that is. I now consider Rick Ross to be my primary sounding board and friend.

Briefly then--

Let's look at what has occured on the Google search engine for keywords "rick potvin"....

[www.google.com]

You can see that the top hit is my page. However, click on that page and you'll find a link that I placed to my "homepage" at the bottom...

[www.angelfire.com]

Briefly, I created the "angelfire" page in 1999-- and amazingly, it's still up as the first hit under my name. I was using a WEBTV box at the time and didn't know much about saving logins and other information. I've lost my login and Angelfire won't tell me what it was-- putting me through hoops I can't negotiate. So-- that page is STUCK there...

The link at the bottom, which goes to my extended homepage on WEBSPAWNER host-- was deleted by me years ago. I had issues with Webspawner and had them DELETE all my pages. BUT.. that led to the link at the bottom of the ANGELFIRE page being AVAILABle... and guess who GRABBED it??? Yup. CADC.... so now look at it...

[www.webspawner.com]

I've tried to get webspawner to delete it but they won't... because it's not MY page now, it's CADC's page... and according them, it's MY fault that I left it available. They didn't RETIRE the address-- they just made it available...

So now my Angelfire link takes you to CADC's anti-me page. I realize Life is Not Fair-- but this demonstrates the MALICIOUSness-- the AGGRESSIVE and Expert-level aggressive maliciousness by CRYOINCISTS attacking ME-- another cryonicist---!!!! .. which if SOMEONE who knows me, googles me, or wants to know more about me-- finds' the CADC page linked ON MY PAGE!!

I call this a hijacking. And one could argue that I SHOULD have my logins and passwords to delete the angelfire page or that I SHOULD have KEPT my webspawner page... but I guess they dont' call the WEB the WEB for nothing-- once you're caught in it, you're stuck and can be stung by the spiders.

Anyway, I've written to CADC to ask them to remove that page... whoever they are-- and we'll see what happens... but for now I just wanted to "report in" the "cult awarenss network"-- on the "cult side of cryonics"-- that really IS nasty beyond belief-- and in this case, takes their maliciousness to a new level.

Here's another interesting angle-- If you check google blogsearch under Rick Potvin, do you know what the number one hit is? THIS FORUM!!!

[blogsearch.google.com]

That's why I've decided to post here-- so that if others try to find me, they MIGHT see THIS explanaiton of what happened. The really bad downside to all of this is that I reun a small business and I'll NEVER know the true side effect of all of this on my business... people get turned off easily... and it's just a shame.

I guess I was nieve enough to use my real name in the 1990s because I was so excited by the net thinking that we would all join together and sing kumbaya. I guess not.

"Philossifur".