Well, it does appear that the Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee, has hijacked that homepage, called 'Rick Potvin's Homepage'. [www.webspawner.com] which they call 'Rick Potvin - AntiCryonics Advocate'.

They also link to a former personal attack blog that appears to have been taken down. [cryonicsdefamedbyrickpotvin.blogspot.com]

Another personal attack-blog by these people was mentioned before. [richardbpotvin.blogspot.com] [forum.culteducation.com]

But it does show the absusive and cultish mentality of some of the people who sell and market cryonics. As mentioned, they use FEAR to try and sell cryonics, as well as deliberate misinformation to mislead people.

They also target their "enemies", and use whatever tactics they can to try and intimidate people, that is obvious, and they will use extreme methods to try and silence criticism. Some of it is listed in this thread.
So its true that a type of "clique" has taken over the main cryonics companies.

What is ironic, is that this webpage hijacking is linked to ALCOR, as they are mentioned in the first webpage. So it makes ALCOR look completely ridiculous. Anyone who reads that personal-attack webpage, will know that someone from the Cryonics movement wrote it, and that they appear to be a disturbed individual. So they make themselves/Alcor look bad, more than the person they are trying to attack. So Alcor is making themselves look even worse than they already do.

Its pretty obvious who wrote that attack-blog, and attack webpage.
Its the same people/person, the same language used when this thread first appeared. Compare the use of these terms...

For example, [forum.culteducation.com]
Anti-cryonics propaganda on Cult Education Forum
From: Mark Plus

Anti-cryonics disinformation - ImmInst Forums
AdvancedAtheist

'Rick Potvin - AntiCryonics Advocate'.



The term, "Anti-Cryonics", is a strange term to use, and only a few people associated with Alcor use that term repeatedly.
To see who is using it, search Google for these terms:

"anti-cryonics"

anticryonics


"anti-cryonics" "mark plus"



So anyone can see its the exact same people/person, with a cultish mentality about cryonics, who think that criticizing deceptive methods means a person is AntiCryonics. Its not that people are even anti-cryonics, its just that cryonics is being sold in a deceptive way, as shown in this thread and elsewhere.
And the Cryonics companies are controlled by a handful of people who engage in outrageous behavior to try and suppress anyone who speaks up about what is really going on.

Melody Maxim said recently [cryomedical.blogspot.com]
"Someone recently accused me of "threatening the livelihood" of the people employed at Suspended Animation..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2009 01:56AM by The Anticult.

Welcome, PhilOssifur.

Cryonics has yet to show it can "bring back" a dog let alone a human. That being said I know that the thought of death vs. possible re-animation via cryonics is a powerful recruiting tool...I mean who ever really wants to die? Very few.

The hypnotic allure of ever-lasting life/re-animation is very powerful.

A quote attributed to Wernher von Braun (American space science researcher and ex-German nazi) said (major paraphrasing and embellishing) "Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, so when we die, our energy [life-force] must go on so I believe in the afterlife", (Anyone with his exact quote please correct me, but the feeling is correct, no?).

Living on forever (or at least for several hundred years) is intriguing. Cryonics taps into this very human emotion.

I am a skeptic (sceptic if you are from Britian or Austalian, Canada and New Zealand).

I wish you well with your cryonic future, and side with you on your anger at the running of "Popsicles-R-Us" by a bunch of money-grubbing con-artists and thieves.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2009 01:18PM by Sparky.

Update for Cult Awareness Network and Rick Ross-- by PhilOssifur-- a signed up cryonicist who is under seige by other cyronicists... for speaking his mind, basically. about the future of civilization-- but that's another story.

I was amazed to find, this morning when I checked CADC's anti-me Webspawner page that they have deleted the offending data but have maintained ownership of the page with the signature "stopdefaming cryonics". They retitled that page "under constuction" which I interpret as a veiled threat against me should I post anything about cryonics to the Google blogsearch engine-- which is their MAIN concern-- since the blog entries often get picked up by Google blogsearch and emailed to those who sign up for Google alerts under keyword "cryonics".

Here we see the new page-- which I'll now cut and paste-- since they might change it again.



Under Construction

Under construction

free webpage

Send E-Mail to: stopdefamingcryonics@gmail.com


Free web pages created using the webpage creation facilities of Webspawner.
Copyright © 2009 . All Rights Reserved


I emailed CADC this morning with this--


<hr>quote
hanks anyway.
Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:56 AM

From:
"Phil Ossifur" <philossifur@yahoo.com>
Add sender to Contacts


To:
stopdefamingcryonics@gmail.com

Your attention to the matter of my concern is much appreciated.
[www.webspawner.com]

Thanks.

Now, moving on... I see you made a very "cute" move... keeping the page "on tap" as "under constuction".

I would prefer, of course, to own that page back because I have a terrible problem... NOT that you care. But allow me to explain briefly my predicamnet.

I constucted the anglelfire page yeasr ago when I was younger, stupid and nieve. [www.angelfire.com]

I cannot find my login and password. And Aneglfire changed hands and the new owner of the site is hard to deal with-- I can't get anywhere yet.. I may never. So the link that goes to my homepage remains "under construction".

What do I need to do to re-take that PARITCULAR address that you so cleverly (and satanically) grabbed-- as a result of Webspanwer making it available again RATHER than retiring it?

Pay you money?

Shut up entirely forever about cryonics?

What?

A non-response from you will be interpreted as "nothing, ever" and will be construed as a "standing veiled threat" being held over my head if I should speak... just so you know.

If I point out the standing veiled threat-- so someone else-- that may not be good for you or cryonics for that matter. So there is a downside for you in not reponding. This is not to be construed as a threat-- but rather as a negotiating point-- which is valid because the link is STILL on my Angelfire page and I OUGHT to have control of it...

...otherwise, despite my silence about cryonics, you continue to OWN my silence... with that continuing veiled threat. By giving me back control of that address...

[www.webspawner.com]

...you can think of it as both-- "good" and "smart to do"-- under the circumstances. You should not leave this "evidence" of your impending threat against me for everyone to see in public.

Note how your email address, "stop defaming cryonics" is at the bottom of the webpage. This is proof of your impending threatened personal attack against me should I speak. IS that what you want?

If it is, just leave the page as it is. But... you never know who is going to see it. Pleasant.... dreams?

PhilOssifur.
(Please return control of the page to me-- and at the same time-- again, thanks for neutralizing it somewhat).
<hr>unquote

As far as the "personal attack blogs" go, one is down, but this one is "open to invited readers"-- and so maintains its integrity until I violate CADC's rule that I shall not discuss cryonics online, especially on the blogs.

[www.blogger.com]

You wrote-- "ut it does show the absusive and cultish mentality of some of the people who sell and market cryonics."

My thinking now goes MUCH further than that in that far more people in cryonics WATCHED what was going on here and said nothing-- which is going along with CADC's abuse... I forgot the word for that... saying nothing in the face of injustice--

You mentioned the "clique"-- "So its true that a type of "clique" has taken over the main cryonics companies. ". Well, that clique is headed by Saul Kent-- who has just made "his big move" to basically "take over Alcor"-- witness this latest post on Cold Filter

[www.network54.com]

You have to have watched cryonics for years to understand the implications here. And I do. The reference point you need is buried in history-- where Saul Kent decided to "consolodate cryonics" back in the 1960's. "Consolodate" is a euphemism meaning... "take over" and "control". Amazingly to me, his vitamin company succeeded beyond all expectation... and then once through the charges by the FDA in the 1990s', exploded into an incredible amount of money in the late 1990's that was truly unbelievable... and now-- consolodation is being accomplished.

The idea that Mark Plus is CADC is possible. I'll run a few clever "tests" on that theory to see what I can find out. It's very plausible actually.

To Sparky-- The validity of cryonics starts with just a desire to explore something as a feasibility study. I started my quest with a simple desire to live longer and to find all means of doing so. I'm currently following the problem with tooth decay and re-enamelization... with the desire to preserve and regrow good enamel on my teeth. Your position seems to be that you do not have even a desire to live longer than what appears to be possible right now.... so I respectfully submit to you that there can't be a viable discussion. Where there is a will, they say there's a way-- for a reason. Becuase without the will, there is NO way. ok? Thanks for commenting though. You people are far friendlier and reasonable than cryonicists.

CADC has removed the offending page... that they had previously hijacked AND have now release the control of the page back to webpawner which now posts this...

[www.webspawner.com]

<hr>HTTP 404

The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable
<hr>

So now, the key phrase is "temporarily unavailable"-- and I don't know what that means exactly. I'll cycle back to it and try to reclaim my address-- weekly-- until I make it mine again. And I'll thank CADC for releasing it. However, the veiled threat of personal attacks on me remains with respect to posting anything about cryonics on the google blogsearch. I'll leave that alone at this time. It's time to take a break and consider that the Angelfire page and the google search under my name has been cleaned up. It's likely the best CADC can do with Webspawner at this time.

A strange thing happened this morning. I went to double check the 404'd webspawner site-- and "stop defaming cryonics" -- reflecting the methods of Group of 6 in the past-- and CADC (cryonics anti defamation committee) in 2008-- are back on my webspawner page with their email address... they say a webspawner glitch led to it's 404. That's believable-- because Webspawner's problems are what led me to delete my pages in the first place. The idea that webspawner would delete a page and then make the URL available to someone else is, to me, a bad thing. The blogger.com blogsite company doesn't do that. When you delete a blog, that URL is GONE forever. Nobody can hijack it. Blogger's page reads "this blog has been deleted by the owner". Same thing with Network54.com-- when you delete a forum, the URL remains deleted with a notice that the forum was deleted. Webspawner is the only company I know that makes the URL available to someone else.

Another strange event this morning-- CADC actually email me-- after simply deleting the offending diatribe against me on the Webspawner page. The email is indicative of the attitude that they erroneously believe is simply directed at "me". It's not. What they are doing is acting as an effectively revenge oriented goon squad for cryonics as a whole. It just happens that I discovered this little pocket of disease... this hidden "front"-- where your real world reputation is at risk if you don't frame cryonics the way they want you to. I think it's unacceptable. I would do more to counter it but my business involves others and so I'm effecitvely shut down in order to protect them. If it were just me in my business, I would risk more-- but I don't want others to be victims of my peculiar interests.

I haven't gone too far out of my way to point this out to everyone in cryonics, although I DID report it to the Alcor board, with an official letter and documention-- notarized no less-- with no acknoledgement or any response from them. Others in cryonics who claimed to be my friends in the past don't go to bat for me in any cryonics forum despite over a year of witnessing the abuse CADC has thrown at me-- which to my mind, is passive collusion. Cryonics as an activity and idea is not inherently a cult, nor does it have to be. But I think, without knowing much about cults in general, that I can characterize the way cryonics is currently being conducted, especially with the passive collusion with CADC's threats and bashing-- as a cult.... a dangerous cult-- dangerous to your livilhood, your reputation, and even your personal body since CADC has posted my google map location and has threatened me with local adl offices near me...

I've stopped recommending anyone look at cryonics or get involved. I've considered leaving myself-- except that I don't want to act on a reactionary basis. I have my own context for cryonics that makes sense to me-- and I wish to maintain that. But that's another issue. The problem is that cryonics maintains itsself through behavioral science that disregadrs the human mind and lateral thinking-- which is a paradox-- since cryonics seeks to preserve and reanimate the mind. I'm comfortable with paradoxes, unlike most people I think. The way out of a paradox is a higher principle.

To prove that CADC is still VERY active and a VERY dangerous threat not just to MY livlihood, but as a demonstration of how they seek to threaten anyone's livlihood-- who has a different context for cryonics, I'll cut and paste their entire email here. Maybe Rick Ross can see some more statistical semantic similiarities to confirm or deny the identity of the perpetrator. If it's Mark, I know that in the past Mark has had access to Alcor member files for updating and normal clerical work and would have personal information on a lot of people. I can't confirm it's Mark but the suggestion was made above-- and it might be. The idea of keeping people "in line" by holding threats over their heads as you'll see in the following email that I just got this morning, is anathema to me. I grew up going to university and being very open academically to all sorts of issues. I've never been threatened for publishing my views in my entire life-- until this travesty over the past few years with cryonics. Anyone considering cryonics should somehow be warned in advance of this type of retribution...

Here's the email... quote<hr>
Re: Thank you.
Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:22 PM
From:
This sender is DomainKeys verified
"StopDefaming Cryonics" <stopdefamingcryonics@gmail.com>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Phil Ossifur" <philossifur@yahoo.com>
Hello Rick,
Yesterday I finally found the committee member who reanimated your webspawner site, sorry for the delay in replying. You have found out on your own what we will do and did. You figured us out pretty well. It leaves our options open, in case you again become more "insane" than we are. Hope your business is doing OK, and we do appreciate your continuing to work with us to make cryonics more easily accepted by the public.
Sincerely,
CADC (what you named us)
P.S. We don't care who sees or knows that we own a webspawner site named "potvin". However, if you were to publicize and fulminate about it, we might add some way cool stuff to it. Imagine that.
On 5/9/09, Phil Ossifur <philossifur@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thank you for cleaning that link up. That was a pretty malicious act-- overtly malicious. It would have been up there for years had I not caught it.

You're welcome. At least there is some civility in your email. Malicious?? Give us a break. It told the truth, and nothing else. And its removal was not part of our deal to take down the blogs we made for you. So consider it a bonus that we edited it. Our committee member who put it up really just forgot about it or it would probably have been quietly removed earlier on anyway.

I don't doubt for a minute you're still monitering google blogsearch for me.

Rest assured that we are.

I'll be attempting to create a new brief homepage on that link since webspawner's 404 page says the URL is "temporarily unavailable" so I'll have to grab it before someone else does-- maybe you under another name-- which would give you deniability , in the future. I would not doubt that you would try that.

I don't think so. It is still there and belongs to us. Probably some temporary glitch at webspawner. They have a lot of strange features so I am told

I'll write webspawner and ask them if I can get capture it again. In any case, we're neutral for today.
PhilOssifur

Won't happen, Rick.
<hr>unquote

Here is my latest email to CADC...
quote<hr>


> your continuing to work with us to make cryonics more easily
> accepted by the public.


This is where you're making your mistake. You're assuming that "the public" can be subjected to behavioral types of conditioning in order to "make cryonics accepted". But the human mind is not ONLY sueject to that type of behavioural programming. The human mind can "reason".

It IS true that if you condition humans to certain ways of thinking and acting, that it can work for a long time or under particular conditions... and this is what you're banking on. Don't bank on it. Consider the possibility that humans can "jump out of the box" of your behavioral techniques.

Free and open contextualizing of cryonics from my angle would actually be an asset to cryonics because I do DeBono type lateral thinking-- brainstorming-- which opens up new possibilities for consideration. You're trying to turn cryonics into a controlled business too soon as if "cryonics" is registered trademark... and I think that's a mistake. Have you considered the downside of attempting to suppress my viewas as you are? Are you even aware that IS a potentail downside for you and for cryonics if you maintain your stance?

If you're as smart as you think you are, you WOULD consider the downside of what you're doing here. Right? Of course, the downside for me-- is more action by you as you've threatened under certain conditions. But do 'we" as cryonicists really want this to be the way cryonics is "sold to the public"??? What if the public KNEW that I was being "controlled" like this? What if this entire thing were written up in WIRED magazine for example? What if you unintentially created a martyr out of me? Neither of us would want that, right?

Just give up the webspawner page... and now since you've not released the page back to me, I want you to RENOUNCE any plans for retribution if I blog about cryonics. Will you do that? Take this email to your committee memebers and consider the ramifications. I have no time to actually write a WIRED article and likely won't. I have dental issuess that are far more important I'm working on. But the POINT I'm making is that what YOU consider to be good for cryonics might NOT be-- given that you have to keep the lid on the likes of me to do it. Maybe it's wiser to let me write what I want... demonstrating to the public that cryonics has "all kinds" of people who justify cryonics "for all sorts of reasons". THAT would attract MORE customers than what you're currently trying to do I think...

...just from a "marketing point of view", I think my position is far more valid and true than yours. I've sold pianos and pianos lessons for years. If someone in piano manufacturing were to say-- "you can only play classical music" on the piano-- you cannot play "jerry lee lewis" on it-- and expect the public to "buy pianos" based on that control, that would be absurd wouldn't it? Similarly with cryonics, as I see it-- cryonics requires civilization and nuclear power as an upgrade to our power to exist in general for specific power to exist as cryoncists. You can't sell cryonics by telling the public it's "just a medical practise"... just as you can't sell pianos by telling the public "it's just for classical music".

Phil Ossifur.
<hr>unquote

One more element of this before I leave it alone for now is a key phrase that CADC emailed in a "P.S."... here it is...

CACD: "P.S. We don't care who sees or knows that we own a webspawner site named "potvin". However, if you were to publicize and fulminate about it, we might add some way cool stuff to it. Imagine that.

My comment-- "If you were to publicize and fulminate about it, we might add some... stuff to it".

So NOW, CADC has raised the ante somewhat. Before I was simply ordered to not write about cryonics from my point of view. NOW, I'm not to "publicize or fulminate" about their continued threat to defame me on MY OWN WEBSITE that they hijacked and insist on keeping control of as a way to contain me. I just wanted to draw the reader's attention to that specific element-- which takes this thing to a whole new level. This is now a "meta threat"... in other words... not only am I facing defamation for speaking to an issue, but now for speaking to the threat itself rather than the issue.

It may be only a matter of time before they realize I've pointed to them here in the Cult Awareness Network forum.. and when they find out, CAN and Rick Ross will be able to observe what they do at the website they hijakced... which currently says "under construction".

[www.webspawner.com]

I took a look at Wired is saying about defamation-- here's a good piece
[www.wired.com]

I don't agree with the conclusions Wired makes-- I think in this case, CADC is hurting cryonics as a whole by making it appear that cryonics is a nasty cult that will destroy people's repuations online if they have differing views from the official view. IF CADC doesn't relent and let me have my webpage back, or if they make it worse-- the "free market" effect will reflect badly on cryonics as a whole-- and THAT would be grist for the authorial mill I think. I'm getting a headstart on that by updating CAN/Rick Ross on the situation.

I would think that the power holders in cryonics-- say Alcor's board members-- would want to have CADC desist from their efforts to suppress me using these tactics-- for the good of cryonics as a whole. Certainly that's my first thought, aside from the personal damage it would cause me. CADC is in effect doing to cryonics precisely what they say they don't want to befall cryonics-- a bad reputation.

well that is interesting.

as stated, now the page [www.webspawner.com] that the Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee maliciously hijacked, now reads UNDER CONSTRUCTION, as the CADC took down the ugly personal attack webpage.
(the info is still in the internet cache, but since its such an ugly personal attack, it won't be reposted here. Basically the CADC calls the target ugly names. Their excuse for the attack is the subjects personal views and beliefs. But what is the REAL reason the CADC tried to use these tactics to silence this person?)

Even worse, that webpage PROVES that the CADC maliciously hijacked their webpage AND stole his personal EMAIL address. They STOLE his personal email address...potvi*@webspawner.com
Think about it, some "cryonics" people, STOLE this guys SURNAME email address, on a webpage that viciously attacks him personally, and was linked to another personal-attack blog they set-up using his name.


Its not an "error" by Webspawner, the CADC took it down right after it was exposed, as it makes them and ALCOR, look like complete nutjobs, or worse.
Why would a multimilliondollar business like ALCOR get one of their internet stooges to post that kind of garbage? To try to intimidate the target?
Obviously the "Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee" is one main webguy, someone who posts using that kind of language. But it is certainly someone close to Alcor, even working at Alcor.
Someone higher up, his "boss" saw that the webpage was going to damage ALCOR, and they ordered it taken down. Their bullshit that they "finally found the guy" who put it up, is a obvious lie.
Its obviously all one guy, anyone can see that.

So not only will the cryonics people steal the critics webpage, and steal his personal email address using his SURNAME, then they will take down the page as its making THEM look bad, and then lie about it.
Great people, these cryonics folks.

What they hell is wrong with these cryonics people?
Its absolutely true that the "cryonics community" is to blame for allowing these crackpots at the top of cryonics to attack the little guy, and say nothing about it. Shame on them.


but it gets even WORSE.
They continue to make "threats" against the cryonics critic, that if he continues to criticize them, they will post more stuff about him? Anyone can see that disturbed mentality at work from the cryonics people.
That is a form of BLACKMAIL.
They are telling the critic to shut-up, as if he doesn't, they will smear him again.

So lets review...
...the Cryonics Anti-Defamation Committee is closely associated with ALCOR, and is probably one person.
And they engage in STEALING a critics personal webpage, STEALING his personal email address, and organized internet smear personal attacks using numerous blogs.
And they use threats and a type of BLACKMAIL, that if he doesn't say what they want him to say, they will smear him again.

That is your wonderful cryonics company and organization.
Sounds like a small group of organized crooks.


These also sound like the kind of personal "threats" which were made against Larry Johnson who was criticizing the Ted Williams and Alcor fiasco. There were reports of vicious written threats left on his car, etc, and those images were online before at the former Ted Williams website. [www.freeted.com]
And others have been viciously attacked as well, by the cryonics people.

All of this needs to be publicized on the cryonics message boards.
There is a lot more information that has not yet been publicized about these cryonics people.
Those who believe in "cryonics" are the ones who need to step-up, and expose the crooked, dishonest, abusive tactics being used by the few people running the cryonics organizations.

Anyone can clearly see the very disturbed mentality at work with those who are running these cryonics companies. The phrase that comes to mind is...

cryonics crooks...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 02:51AM by The Anticult.

and it is time, for those who have spoken up about cryonics, to contact magazines like Wired, RadarOnline, or others like it. Even Consumer Reports, in terms of "funerals".

And to give them the information needed to do national full investigative articles looking into who owns and runs the cryonics companies, which have clearly gone off the rails, if they were ever on them in the first place.

Melody Maxim is looking into the technical aspects in her blog.
But really, that is only a tiny part of the story.

The REAL questions are about the money, the complex contracts, the abusive tactics, the misleading and dishonest marketing and fear tactics, what is happening behind closed doors, and the other questions in this thread, and elsewhere. The real problems have nothing to do with the technical aspects of "cryonics".
The real problems have to do with the people who own the cryonics companies.

At this point, a person would have to be crazy to sign over their life insurance policy and investments to these cryonics companies.
Its very clear that a small group of people are trying to get their hands on people's ASSETS at legal death. That is the real story, and that explains the terrible tactics being used against critics.
Even the "small payment life insurance" policy appears to be a front, as once they get that turned over, then they start trying to "upsell" those clients, to turn over their much larger cash-assets and entire Estates, for more "protection" after death. They are using fear and misinformation to do this.

But once you are legally dead, all of that money/assets are THEIRS, and they can do whatever they want with it. Naive people are being duped with tricky contracts.
And once you are dead, and they have your dead corpse, no one can do anything about it.
Its game over.

This is why the cryonics people are trying to block any regulation, and wil seemingly stop at nothing.

That is the real story here.

Mark posted this to Cold Filter this morning---

[www.network54.com].

Cut and paste in case the message is deleted...

Rick Potvin spams the Cult Education Forum.
May 10 2009 at 10:34 AM Mark Plus (Login advancedatheist)
Veteran Member
Somehow, they seem to deserve each other:

[forum.culteducation.com]

and,

[forum.culteducation.com]


My comment-- Typically, Mark exhibits no mercy when it comes to protecting my real world identity as PhilOssifur-- he was attempting to do so for awhile, but now the gloves are apparently off and he's hitting back hard. He is also characterizing my informative updates to this forum as "spamming"-- the definition of spam being whatever the person who doesn't like what is being written defines it as. Mark should know that everything I posted here was approved by Rick Ross or his moderators.

Note that Mark doesn't deal with the issue of concern to me here in this forum which was the hijacking of my webspawner page...

[www.webspawner.com]

...which was covertly hijacked by CADC-- without telling me, allowing whoever visited by Google accessible Angelfire page to which I've lost the login and password years ago-- and am currently trying to get Angelfire to remove anyway... to see CADC's malignment of me from my own link.

[www.angelfire.com]

Mark is a signed up cryonicist as I am-- and ought to be concerned with the threats and veiled threats CADC has made against me, but he is apparently not. The suggestion above that Mark is part of CADC has some merit but I can't verify it. "Stop Defaming Cryonics" / CADC are likely one entity-- and have threatened to increase the attack on me on my own Webspawner page which I cannot remove if I should complain about their threat.

It's somewhat surprising to me that Mark Plus should be checking into this thread after this thread was left unattended for a long time. It's as if he checked a box that emails him updates so that he can keep an eye on it. I understand mark was banned from this forum some time ago.