Some interesting deleted info below from a former wikipedia entry...notice how a couple cryonic Churches changed their names to "Society" in rebranding, to try and cover-up the religious aspects.

The Church of Venturism changed their name to Society of Venturism, run by David Pizer, who was with Alcor, and still is promoting Alcor. To what extent are they interwoven?

Church Of Venturism, Society Of Venturism (they appear to be buying up a lot of new land in the area).
[www.venturist.org]
[www.quantium.plus.com]

David Pizer.
[imminst.org]
David Pizer admits to being a car upholstery salesman in 1980, so he has solid credentials for religion and the most advanced medical science ever conceived.
(why do so many former street salesmen get into this stuff, like Werner Erhard? Because like LR Hubbard said, religion is the way to go, working in sales is for poor stiffs).

Venturism is a cryonics religion, so they can have a RELIGIOUS OBJECTION TO AN AUTOPSY.
Think about that in context. These people are believers in assisted suicide.
Venturist Ministers can perform weddings.

Some of David Pizer's extreme beliefs can be seen in statements like this from him...
"Some day all rational people will hold views similar to those of the Venturists".

Of course, the irony is the irrationality of the position of the Venturists, but it gives a taste of what is driving this.

He is running "Creekside Preserve Lodge and Venturville". Off the top of ones head..."Preserve" sounds connected to frozen bodies...they have (or had at that time) a 34 acre compound, and his goal is to expand and have a compound WHERE ONLY CRYONICISTS CAN LIVE.
QUOTE:
"The Creekside Preserve Lodge, located in Mayer, Arizona, is the first step toward the creation of a permanent cryonics community to be called Ventureville."

(Of course, due to the cryonic bodies that may be there one day, they will probably have to surround the community with razor wire, cameras, and have their own power supply, food storage, defense systems...)

David Pizer runs a magazine called Physical Immortality about their beliefs and David Pizer states, "when we have extra copies we send them to some of our members who place them in public places, libraries and such".

Mark Plus (who appears to have posted in this thread previously) is listed as the manager of the Creekside. They want other cryonicists to work on the Ventureville compound as waiters, cooks, and in their horse breeding business. He appears to be offering room and board, and minimal-pay.
One assumes posting cryonics advertising on countless blogs is part of the job description.

David Pizer, with his background in car upholstery sales, then states that aging is simply an engineering problem. This is a combination of sheer ignorance, and extreme arrogance.
Aging is actual related to the entropy of the universe, and is one of the most complex areas of biology that is not understood.
But David Pizer, a former car upholstery salesman, current motel owner and horse breeder, and creator of the Venturist cryonics religion, he knows the answers to aging. Imagine that.

Pizer also is fully aware that PERSUASION works in cryonics sales.
QUOTE:
"Can people be talked into wanting life extension? Pizer: Yes, in principle at least. You have to "talk" them into understanding the way things really are first. If you can do that, it falls into place."

Pizer is signing up agents to sell his magazine to doctors offices, etc. Pizer is a real old school door-to-door salesman.

This is all standard classic stuff from top to bottom. Sales sales sales, is like breathing to Pizer.
Signing over the insurance and assets are a very clever sales strategy for them.
Venturism is a cryonics religion, that is a FACT.
They are forming a cryonics compound with only cryonicists allowed to live there.
They are even promoting cryonics marriages.
Their methods of dealing with critics is personal attacks.

Some of the more pie-in-the-sky naive Transhumanists better wake up a smell the coffee...the professional salesmen and religionists have arrived on the Cryonics scene, and they have taken over.
They have a very clear sales and marketing strategy which they are propagating everywhere.
David Pizer is the self-appointed commander-in-chief of this new cryonics religous movement.


A point to review again, is the Venturist cryonic religion's religious objection to autopsies.
Notice above, that some of the same members of the Venturist/Alcor cryonics religion, spoke about how the "perfect" cryonics "patient" was a 10 year old healthy child. [forum.culteducation.com]
Add this to this the support of voluntary euthanasia and assisted suicide, and the religious objection to autopsies by a coroner.

Without a full autopsy from the coroner, how can they know if the person/child died of natural causes, or was "euthanized" like a sick horse in a horse-breeding farm, in order to facilitate cryonic freezing?


_______________________________________
QUOTE:
Religious Transhumanism
Church of Venturism and the Society for Venturism
Perhaps the first Religious Transhumanist organization, the Church of Venturism was incorporated in 1986. In 1990, the leadership changed its name to the Society for Venturism though retaining its identity as a religious organization.

Transhumanist Church and Society for Universal Immortalism
The Transhumanist Church was conceived in 2003 by David Wallace Croft, a founder of the Humanist Fellowship of North Texas, and launched when joined by Tripper McCarthy in 2004. Inspired by R. Michael Perry and his book "Forever for All", the name was changed by vote of the members to the Society for Universal Immortalism. The organization retained its identity as a Transhumanist religion.
________________________________________



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 04:46PM by The Anticult.

Mike Perry (R. Michael Perry) has worked for Alcor since 1989. So he has been with Alcor for 20 years.

Mike Perry is:
"a Director and an ordained minister of the Society for Venturism and performs wedding ceremonies and memorial services for this IRS-recognized, scientific and religious organization. He is also a cofounder and past president of the Society for Universal Immortalism"

Mike Perry and David Pizer are closely connected.
It appears Mike Perry and David Pizer were both involved with the Dora Kent homicide incident, and were apparently both arrested by the police.

David Pizer also convinced the Alcor board to move to Arizona, due to some friendly political connections with the mayor of Scottsdale.
David Pizer even found the first building for Alcor.

This has not even begin to scratch the surface.

_____________________________


[www.authorhouse.com]

Mothermelters: The inside story of Cryonics and the Dora Kent Homicide
Alan Kunzman
Publisher: 1st Books Library (January 7, 2004) ISBN-10: 1410791998

About the Book
"MotherMelters" is former Riverside County Coroner Investigator Alan Kunzman''s inside story of the investigation into cryonics, and Alcor Life Extension Foundations incriminating involvement in the decapitation and subsequent homicide of Dora Kent. Finally after 15 years he tells his lurid story of the Dora Kent homicide and the incomprehensible manner in which Riverside County Coroner Raymond Carrillo was administering his office.

"MotherMelters'' has provided Investigator Alan Kunzman with the path to finally disclose what took place behind the ivy covered walls of the Riverside County Coroners office during the Dora Kent homicide investigation, the most media drenched case of his law enforcement career.

From the investigators perspective you will discover the seedy world of Alcor Life Extension Foundation and the manner in which they represented cryonics during his investigation. He exposes the unqualified people that played the parts of scientists, doctors, surgeons and legitimate medically trained professionals, yet most of the participants held no license or degree with the exception of one, Dr. Harris.

"MotherMelters" brings to light Alcor Life Extensions affiliation with the church of Venturism, which was located in Arizona and used to recruit new members into Alcor. Once signed, the new member was directed to purchase life insurance through other Alcor members insurance agencies. They were told they had to list Alcor as the beneficiary in order to cover the costs of decapitation and preservation until the end of time.

"MotherMelters" exposes the side of cryonics that is never disclosed in the documentaries that continue to be broadcast on national television. The hosts of these programs have never asked the right questions, they simply continue to play into their unscrupulous hands and unwittingly help legitimize cryonics.

_________________________________________
Amazon Reviews:
[www.amazon.com]

Human Vivisection, August 2, 2005
Mothermelters is a wake up call for those who live in AZ, FL and MI. It should be a wake up call for our elected officials in D.C. as well. This charade is going on in all three states, and in Europe. Ted Williams's fate merely brought it to the surface. The Dora Kent story is cadaver desecration at its worst, and criminal. People who follow cryonics have no reasonable, substanitive rationale for the pseudo-science. It defies pharmacology, toxicology anatomy and physiology, and even legitimate peer-reviewed cryobiology researchers, where the "official" society of cryobiology calls these proponents, "body-freezers," refudiate their approach to preservation and immortality. Cryonics practitioners are not trained in credible, medical research or any biological science for that matter.
Kunzman should be commended on his revealing scenario. A diabolical charade is being played on the elderly and the now deceased. A compelling read that focuses on questions of crimes that remain open, unanswered and unpersued, in L.A., for staters. As a Ph.D. mammalian physiologist myself, I was shocked by the fact that this science fiction is real, not fiction.



An accurate and chilling account., April 5, 2004
This review is from: Mothermelters: The inside story of Cryonics and the Dora Kent Homicide (Hardcover)
Being involved with a cult during the 70's and 80's who had a direct relationship with the subject matter of this book, I can certainly say it ran chills up my spine. As I read through the chapters, it was if I was reliving the events. Mr. Kunzman's account of the entire situation is extremely accurate and very true. This particular issue is a hot topic right now in Arizona where State lawmakers are attempting to gain a foothold on this company. As a further note to readers of the reviews regarding the book Mothermelters. Several supporters of Alcor who are called "cryonicist" or "Alcorians" are organized and will be writing negative reviews regarding this book. Please disregard these negative remarks and chalk it up to the ranting of some very deranged individuals. I recommend to purchase this book, read it, and you be the judge.



A true story that is creepy and bizarre!, May 8, 2004
This review is from: Mothermelters: The inside story of Cryonics and the Dora Kent Homicide (Hardcover)
"Mothermelters" is one of the most twisted and macabre stories of creepy behavior that I have ever read, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Ex-Riverside County Coroner Alan Kunzman has taken a complex investigation and has written a very accurate account of a bizarre and ghoulish crime involving the bogus science of "cryonics" and the Alcor Life Extension Foundation. "Mothermelters" is extremely readable and not couched in overly academic language, the book is useful for anyone who needs solid, reasonable information on the subject of this particular cult. I recommend "Mothermelters" enthusiastically to anyone interested in true crime. Buy it, and read it and experience the madness of some seriously misguided individuals.




A must read book, April 21, 2004
This is a book I could not put down once I started reading. What captured my attention was a letter in front of book from Alcor with this statement: "In order for cryonics to work, persons who are frozen must remain in that state until technology can repair them and restore them to life."
Where are these people coming from? I was talking to my doctor about it and he said they have no concept of death and what it does to tissues or body.
This book also displays the hidden secrets of corruption within our public offices that if you have enough money - anything goes. Does OJ ring a bell? I really enjoyed this book as told by someone who was "frozen" by the legal system and I too was frustrated by our "government" who looks the other way in the name of a so called "religion". This book has no ending because the death of Dora Kent is still a "open case". Maybe someday, Alcor will reap their due reward. I have recommended this book to several people who have responded that they too enjoyed reading but not happy with outcome of the investigation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 05:22PM by The Anticult.

below are some excerpts for educational research...

from a letter from David Pizer from the Venturist church, which serves as a soft-sell pitch for the idea of giving the Power Of Attorney to groups like the Venturist cryonic religion.

Notice how this letter is written, its a soft-sell.
But the pitch is based on fear, and creating fear that your family/relatives/judge/jury will act against your wishes.
So if you end up unconscious in a hospital, then The Venturists could take control of your life, and make the decisions for you, not your family.

Notice he slips in that relatives might be able to OUTSPEND them, which is a seed for donations, and the other financial pitches coming from other directions.

He then talks about giving the POT to a company like Alcor, but what's the difference? Its all the same people. (that is the double-bind in sales...would you like to buy brown or black car upholstery?)

Then back to the pitch for a "donation". This is soft-selling 101.
But this is only part 1 of the program, as they are also pitching the idea of setting up financial trusts, which are cross-sold by Rudi Hoffman, who is also a member of Alcor!! They get you from all sides at once.
These are all "forced-choice" sales techniques, like buying car upholstery from my company, or my wife's company, or my partners company. Its old school sales.

Then here is the amazing part, he says he doesn't know much about these "durable" POT forms. Again, that is meant to undersell, and draw people in to "get educated". Old school.

The kicker is at the end, where they state they "might" accept the POT to take people off life-support, AGAINST RELATIVES WISHES.
QUOTE: "we might also accept power of attorney to make medical decisions so that relatives could not keep a patient on life support while their brain is decomposing."
Notice the contempt he is constantly creating for your evil "relatives" and family members.

So you are supposed to want strangers from the Venturist religion to control your medical decisions at the end of your life?
Combine that with the life insurance pay-outs, financial trusts, and you have a reciped for disaster.
very scary stuff.

but the sales techniques are old school.



_________________________________________________
X-Message-Number: 31363
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:33:35 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@*****.com>
Subject: Protection for cryonicists

[...]
The Venturists Directors have been considering allowing the Society for
Venturism to hold power of attorney from cryoncists (for those cryonicists who
want to give it) to act on their behalf should they ever get in a similar
situation as some past cryonicists have found themselves in - mainly where
non-cryoncists or anti-cryoncists have legal control of their body.

If the idea becomes reality a cryonicst could give the Venturists power of
attorney in sickness or at legal death to make decisions for them. So if, for
instance, you ended up in a mental state where you could not assert your desire
to be frozen and there were others who legally had the right to make decisions
for you that were not going to get you frozen, we could take control and try to
see that your cryonics wishes were honored.

In some cases we might not be able to prevail. In some cases the relatives or
others might be able to outspend us, or other problems could come up. Giving
the Venturists power of attorney to try to help you is not a guarantee that we
can prevail. But it might make the difference in some cases.

You probably could give a similar power of attorney to the organization you are
paying to do your suspension but I think opponents would have a harder time
discrediting the Venturists (trying to get you frozen) for the main reason that
the Society for Venturism does not receive any money when you get suspended and
your suspension organization does.

[...]

Should be offer this service. Should we ask that when someone gives us power of
attorney to try to enforce their cryonics wishes that we ask for a donation,
(if they can afford it), to go into a general fund to build up a cash reserve to
be available if we need to hire an attorney to help out?

Also, there are many types of power of attorney forms. One that I think we
might need may be called "durable" in that it is still in effect after the giver
dies. I don't know much about this.

Also, we might also accept power of attorney to make medical decisions so that
relatives could not keep a patient on life support while their brain is
decomposing. After all, the main organ we want to preserve is the brain.

[...]

Sincerely,

David Pizer
For the Society for Venturism
_____________________________________________

There is a person named Keith Henson involved with Alcor and cryonics and Dora Kent, who has run into some serious trouble. According to reports...

"In 2007 Henson was jailed in Riverside, California for "using threats of force to interfere with another's exercise of civil rights."[26] He was released in early September 2007."
[en.wikipedia.org]

There is also a very disturbing website that claims to be from his biological daughter Valerie Henson.

Keith Henson's daughters speak:
[www.valhenson.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 01:17AM by The Anticult.

Here is an excerpt from a message from a cryonicist detailing ideas on some of the mind-fuck power-tactics to use on the cryonics followers, the worker bee class.
He believes the techniques of the Mormons and Joseph Smith would do the job.

-----------------------
QUOTES:
"We need a class of people who are fundamentally and
psychologically locked in to doing it. We need them to be mind-fucked
into doing it. We need a class of true-believers, thralls, people who
would actually die to keep the nitrogen topped up in the dewars."

"a disciple is an asshole looking for a human being to attach itself to".
"this would be a cult of irrationality and subterfuge."
________________________________________________

[www.cryonet.org]

X-Message-Number: 22591
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:32:03 -0700
Subject: The White Lodge of Cryonics
From: Peter Merel <peter@***.rr.com>

[...]

We need to create a class of people to tend our bodies when we've
de-animated. Employees won't do it - anyone whose loyalties depend on
the highest bidder isn't someone I want my existence to rely on for
several decades. We need a class of people who are fundamentally and
psychologically locked in to doing it. We need them to be mind-fucked
into doing it. We need a class of true-believers, thralls, people who
would actually die to keep the nitrogen topped up in the dewars.

Do you suddenly feel a pang of guilt? Is it even slightly fair to ask
someone to die so that you can have a chance to live again? Well, no,
it's not. It's bald-faced egotism and megalomania to want to do that.

And yet there are people who will do it for us. If not for us, for
someone or something far stupider. Robert Anton Wilson's "Secret Of
Power" is that "a disciple is an asshole looking for a human being to
attach itself to". Since 99.99+ % of humanity are determined to be
non-rational thralls to someone or something non-rational, is there
really any terrible moral problem in proposing some proportion of them
be thralls to US?

[...]
That people would enter such an organization in full-on disciple
mode, and as they progressed through the ranks they'd be taught more
and more rationality until, at the top, they'd become cryonicists and
transhumanists themselves.

... this would be a cult of irrationality and subterfuge.

Maybe we could adapt Shinto. The Shintoists are ancestor-worshippers,
and scrupulous ones. If we could convince 'em that this is the best way
for great grand pappa-san to smile on their endeavors ... but given
where Cryonics is and who we are I think we'd be best off preying on
the christians.

Joe Smith's story is a veritable how-to manual for grafting your pet
kink onto christianity. Smith's was polygamy where ours is immortalism.
Can you think of any reason why the Mormons should have the big white
marble temple in every town and we should not?

Awaiting the pillory,

Peter Merel.
___________________________________

Wow! Some strong and unbelieveable stuff. I can see why the "true believers" of cryonics have evaporated, no where to be seen on this thread. The Anticult, you are an unstoppable force for logic and truth. I would be afraid to cross swords with you if I belonged to/promoted a fruity little cult! The links you have provided and the insight you bring to this topic (and others, as well) are terrific. You have "turned the lights on" in the cryonic chambers and all the cockroaches have scurried into hiding.

P.S. LOVE the latest Peter Merel email you posted. If there are any people lurking on this thread who haven't been convinced of the cult-like aspects of this religion wannabe, then THAT does it!

yes, there is a bizarre concealed undercurrent to cryonics, that most Transhumanists don't know anything about.
There was a nice couple involved with the Transhumanists over in Phoenix, who like many Transhumanists, were naive idealists interested in the future. But the intense pressure to sign-up for cryonics, from a certain "person" in the Phoenix group drove them out.
Now its becoming clear what is going on.

If there were criminal acts in the Dora Kent situation, why were charges not filed?

Mothermelters: The inside story of Cryonics and the Dora Kent Homicide

The cryonics apologists have worked very hard to try to rewrite/reframe the history of Robert Nelson, one of the first in the long line of dishonest and incompetent cryonic cranks, quacks, and swindlers.


_____________________________
"Nelson was accused by the media of taking millions of dollars from grieving families and then absconding with the money, leaving the patients to rot."

[www.prlog.org]
QUOTE:
"As the first president of the CSC (California Society of Cryonics), Robert Nelson of Oceanside, California orchestrated the first cryonics preservation of a human being in 1967, when he froze Dr. James Bedford. Shortly after the freezing, Dr. Bedford was shipped in a crate of dry ice to Arizona, where Ed Hope, a wig manufacturer-turned-cryonics capsule manufacturer, stored the body in one of his capsules filled with liquid nitrogen. The freezing generated a good deal of publicity. The following year Nelson released We Froze the First Man, a book (Dell) detailing the formation of the CSC and the freezing of Dr. Bedford.

Nelson built an underground vault at the Oakwood Memorial Park cemetery in Chatsworth, California and went on to freeze and/or store nine more patients, including a seven year old French Canadian girl and the eight year old son of an Orange County District Attorney. Cloaked in secrecy, two of the three capsules stored in the vault failed, and as a result, seven patients were thawed.

When news of the Chatsworth tragedy eventually got out, Nelson was accused by the media of taking millions of dollars from grieving families and then absconding with the money, leaving the patients to rot. Nelson and the mortician who assisted him, Joseph Klockgether, were later sued by surviving family members of some of the patients. The case went to trial in 1981. Nelson and Klockgether lost the case, and the plaintiffs were awarded nearly one million dollars, mostly in punitive damages."

Its interesting if one goes back and reads some of the cryonics postings even as far back as the 1980's.
The pitch over 20 years later, is almost exactly the same...sign-up and turn over your life insurance policy to them.

They have just refined and expanded that basic sales-pitch.
There is a fairly small core group of people, who do cryonics sales and PR to make money. One could pretty easily list all their names with some research, perhaps all those names could be posted in this thread.

And the intellectual dishonesty runs unabated, as this is what cryonics is based on, pseudo-science to anti-science. It is very much like a religous sect, even like the Jehovah Witnesses, who oppose medical treatment in opposition to science. And cryonics is similar to something that is anti-science like the fake Scientology E-meter.

Science has clearly spoken that there is no basis for anything called "cryonics". Science has proven that Cryosurgery with liquid nitrogen instantly DESTROYS human tissue.
But the cryonics sect claims they "believe in science" when in fact if they believed in science they would restrict themselves to the scientific evidence and methods of science.
But instead, they ignore and oppose science and sell cryonics as a product costing hundreds of thousands of dollars! That is the supreme definition of quackery, to sell unproven health claims for large amounts of money.(also all of the other financial schemes piled on top of the basic cost).
This swindle is as old as human nature.

That being said, if there were to be anything like "suspended animation" it certainly would cost more than 150K. For example, a transplant of a major organ can easily cost up to $500,000. If anything like "suspended animation" could ever exist in the far future, it would have to cost countless millions of dollars per person, and use massive teams of the best neurosurgeons on earth, in facilities costing billions. But that is science fiction, it appears to be a biological impossibility.

But with the cryonics sects, you have a bunch of unskilled people who have no idea of what they are doing.
There are posts out there, which show the "technology" these amateur hobbyists are using to drain the blood out of dead human bodies, and then inject the body with fluids creating visible air-embolisms, and destroying the human body and brain. It makes an old Dr. Frankenstein myth seem moderate, they are cutting heads off, drilling holes in them.... This is horribly macabre stuff, untrained amateurs in faux medical wardrobe, butchering human bodies like this?
On top of all this, if one reads what they write, they are extremely fanatical and arrogant, when in fact they have no knowledge in these medical fields. They constantly attack the most eminent medical scientists who call cryonics quackery, which is exactly what it is.

These disturbing photos of what these amateurs are doing with these human bodies needs to be posted openly. And the science against cryonics needs to be put together in one place, with information about the financial exploitation that is also going on, along with the legal issues which are deliberately misrepresented by the cryonics promoters.
On top of all this, there is the core group of fanatical people who control the cryonics orgs visibly and behind the scenes, who are using many of the techniques of new religious movements and sects to influence the believers in cryonics, and have connections with euthanasia and assisted suicide.
They also are constantly trying to control their own members and to block criticisms of cryonics, even it appears with threats.
(not to mention some of the core cryonics leaders obsessions with firearms, the NRA, and a general survivalist militia-style mindset). (there may even be some underground bunker-style facilities).
There are old threads detailing how the cryonics people wanted to form a type of Church of Cryonics, but they were forced to backtrack and conceal what they were doing.

(Launch of New Transhumanist Church Website)
[www.imminst.org]

Part of the problem is that most Transhumanists are idealists, and many are naive in the way these businesses operate, and the exploitation going on.
Currently they are not huge organizations, but they want to turn it into multi-billion dollar organizations, and to do this they need to tap into the Boomers fear of death, and using advertising methods, and attracting media attention with stunts. These guys want to turn this into a massive global sect, with deep-freezers in every city. With the way this is set-up, they could make billions, without any oversight.
That is why the facts have to be exposed to the light of reality.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2009 04:21AM by The Anticult.