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vdesign
Hi Alchi and SteveLpool,
Thanks for your well reasoned posts. I am offering some comments on your recent contributions.
Firstly the official support for Ole’s effort over the years by Tibetan hierarchy is not limited to “the shamarpa letter”. The official endorsements I can think of are:
1. Letter by Karmapa to the Danish Queen
2. First letter by Shamarpa
3. Introduction to Ole’s “Ngondro” book by Goshir Gyaltsap
4. I seem to remember intro to another of Ole’s books by Tai Situ (not 100% sure though)
5. Letter by Khenpo Choedrak
6. Second letter by Shamarpa
7. Long life prayer and many public statements of full support by Lopon Tsechu
8. Statements of (general) support by 17th Karmapa Thaye Dorje
I am not saying that the official endorsement is all that important but if one mounts argument based on lack thereof then perhaps it is worth setting the record straight. Alchi’s reference to Shamarpa’s “letter about Ole’s lack of qualification and his self appointed title of lama” is rather confused. The letter clearly states the exact opposite i.e. confirms Ole’s credentials and the legitimacy of his “lama” title.
Re: “miracles” performed by HHDL I have heard of quite a few (chasing away swarm of bees, stopping forest fire, protecting village from elephants etc). These stories may not have come from Robert Thurman but probably from HHDL’s other students.
Steve’s mention of the value of first hand experience prompts me to recall what I actually saw some time ago. I am simply relating the situations I was close to.
In early 1990s I took phowa from Ole at a rural location in Poland. It was a miserable wet summer but somehow rain did not interfere with the proceedings. On the last day of the course I noticed that a group of local farmers with families occupied the back rows. This was quite unusual in a staunchly catholic country but I have not thought much of it. I later learned that the local farmers were the only ones in a large area who did not lose potato crop to rot – it rained everywhere but within a few km’s of the phowa tent. After a week of watching the wall of rain in the distance they decided to check out what went on in the tent. I saw a similar phenomenon when Ole’s plane was touching down in 1990s – a clearing over the airport in fully overcast skies for miles around.
Around 1996 I helped to organise Ole’s visit and after public talk the group drove my car to another place some 350km away. On the way the front wheel fell off. Those who know Ole’s style of driving must realise that this could have been serious if not fatal. However, the wheel fell off as they approached a settlement and had to reduce speed to 50km/h. The car rolled/slid for a while and came to a stop outside mechanical workshop. 30 minutes later they were back on their way. This is the story as I got it from all four people who were in the car. And yes, the damage to the car was consistent with the story.
I do not think these stories prove anything or are even particularly important in a wider context but this is what I personally witnessed. What does it have to do with search for the truth? Well, this is the truth – it has happened! Has it changed my life? Nope. Has it inspired me to confront my ego? Maybe.
I am also happy to share my views on the more controversial aspects of DW and will do so (unless culled by RR).
Cheers,
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vdesign
Hi Steve,
A reasonable DWB practitioner? Is it not a contradiction in terms :-)? But seriously, Rick has held my last post so this one may also not go through. I guess we'll see. Plus this is a cult site so whoever is implicated becomes guilty by definition.
One more thing for the record - I only mentioned my experiences b/c you stressed how important it is to rely on what one has actually seen oneself, as opposed to relying on second-hand stories. You may invite Ole to drive a car 700km in a lab to see when a wheel falls off. I guess that would settle the score.
I share your concern about radical Islam. A more general issue has to do with what we are actually allowed to say in this PC world without being labeled racist, homophobic, sexist. As I see it the Islamic viewpoint is essentially incompatible with the Western lifestyle. For example Muslim men are allowed to marry up to four women which cannot be accommodated in the Western concept of marriage, inheritance, child custody etc. At the same time Muslim women are only allowed to marry one man which again does not fit in the Western concept of gender equality. This is not to say that the Muslim system is inferior. It is just different and incompatible with what we have in the West. A one-wife Islam is not Islam as Quran is to be accepted literally - if it says men are allowed four wives that is it. The same goes for the dress code, access to education, freedom to choose partners etc.
These are simple observations which seem obvious but will expose one to allegations of racism, if shared publicly. Assuming you have children would you be ok with your daughter(s) living according to the laws of a country like Yemen or Saudi Arabia? What if Europe became more like Saudi Arabia? Impossible? I think not. There are already calls to allow ethnic communities in France and GB to live by sharia. This is what I believe Ole means when he says that Islam is a major threat to the Western way of life.
Of course nothing is simple and the West accepted mass immigration from other cultural spheres because the Western world did not produce enough children. This was a result of the me-first attitude of people indulging in the joys of life without thinking about who is going to pay for their pension. Socialism is not sustainable unless the pool of taxpayers keeps growing to pay for the election promises.
You asked me some direct questions about the attitudes among the DW crowd but where I live I am a bit sheltered from the mainstream dogma. There are 5-6 people in my local group, all good friends, and the nearest centre is 600km away. I am sad if anyone mindlessly bags other cultures. I am equally sad if people cannot think clearly and do not see threats which may deprive the next generation of the freedoms we all take for granted.
Does it make any sense?
Cheers,
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vdesign
There appear to be two issues with Ole’s contentious statements about Islam, sex, homosexuals, Africa etc. Firstly – are these statements verifiable/objective/factual/true and, secondly – is it acceptable to publicly voice these views? I will start by dissecting what Ole says about homosexualism.
Whenever asked Ole proclaims to be completely heterosexual and thus having little first hand experience in the subject matter. When pressed he usually adds that according to Buddha’s teachings one is born gay as a result of bad relationships with the opposite sex in past lives. Ole also usually explains that one’s sexual orientation is not that important as all beings can attain Enlightenment. He basically presents homosexuality as just another karmic condition which has a cause and can be worked with on the way to recognising the nature of mind.
You may ask what the big deal is? Well, Ole gets caned by gay organisations for judgementally attributing homosexual tendencies to bad actions in past lives. But this is a complete misunderstanding of Buddha’s teachings! We are ALL reborn humans as a result of confused actions, predominantly driven by desire. The Buddha even gave guided tours of samsara to his students explaining why kings, beggars, lepers were reborn the way they were. His teachings are full of comments on causes of particular karmic dispositions. As in: short life (through illness, abortion or accident) as a result of killing others, inherited wealth as a result of generosity etc. My favourite one is bad mouth odour as a result of bad-mouthing others. The reason that people with bad mouth odour are not up in arms about this claim is that, unlike gays, they do not fight (as a group) for social recognition.
So are Ole’s statements about homosexualism true? According to Buddha’s teachings – yes. Are they socially acceptable? Well, is it acceptable to say that the aborted had once killed others? That those born into poverty once were wealthy but did not share? You be the judge.
Cheers,
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zara11
It is such a shame that Lama Ole decides to protest agains Islam in the name of Buddhism, and shame on the disciples of Lama Ole as well. It is very embarassing to know that some people may get to know Buddhism trough this protests and manifestations against Islam, instead of the real compassionate pacific Buddhism.
I agree to the fact that Islam has some dangerous practices that promote violence against women and this shouldnt be allowed in the West, but, I do not agree with the fact that Lama Ole has to use the name of Buddhism to go and protest against this.
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vdesign
Hi Steve,
A reasonable DWB practitioner? Is it not a contradiction in terms :-)? But seriously, Rick has held my last post so this one may also not go through. I guess we'll see. Plus this is a cult site so whoever is implicated becomes guilty by definition.
One more thing for the record - I only mentioned my experiences b/c you stressed how important it is to rely on what one has actually seen oneself, as opposed to relying on second-hand stories. You may invite Ole to drive a car 700km in a lab to see when a wheel falls off. I guess that would settle the score.
I share your concern about radical Islam. A more general issue has to do with what we are actually allowed to say in this PC world without being labeled racist, homophobic, sexist. As I see it the Islamic viewpoint is essentially incompatible with the Western lifestyle. For example Muslim men are allowed to marry up to four women which cannot be accommodated in the Western concept of marriage, inheritance, child custody etc. At the same time Muslim women are only allowed to marry one man which again does not fit in the Western concept of gender equality. This is not to say that the Muslim system is inferior. It is just different and incompatible with what we have in the West. A one-wife Islam is not Islam as Quran is to be accepted literally - if it says men are allowed four wives that is it. The same goes for the dress code, access to education, freedom to choose partners etc.
These are simple observations which seem obvious but will expose one to allegations of racism, if shared publicly. Assuming you have children would you be ok with your daughter(s) living according to the laws of a country like Yemen or Saudi Arabia? What if Europe became more like Saudi Arabia? Impossible? I think not. There are already calls to allow ethnic communities in France and GB to live by sharia. This is what I believe Ole means when he says that Islam is a major threat to the Western way of life.
Of course nothing is simple and the West accepted mass immigration from other cultural spheres because the Western world did not produce enough children. This was a result of the me-first attitude of people indulging in the joys of life without thinking about who is going to pay for their pension. Socialism is not sustainable unless the pool of taxpayers keeps growing to pay for the election promises.
You asked me some direct questions about the attitudes among the DW crowd but where I live I am a bit sheltered from the mainstream dogma. There are 5-6 people in my local group, all good friends, and the nearest centre is 600km away. I am sad if anyone mindlessly bags other cultures. I am equally sad if people cannot think clearly and do not see threats which may deprive the next generation of the freedoms we all take for granted.
Does it make any sense?
Cheers,