Thank you for those posts Zara - they seemed to disappear from Shamarpa's website rather quicky, and those letters could well explain why.


"9. July 2010 email to Shamarpa Rinpoche:

Dear Shamar Rinpoche,

Apparently I didn’t make myself completely clear. Please add the following to your webpage. Otherwise I would have to publicly protect my name and work which probably neither of us wishes.

Hopefully the last statement for your webpage:

....."


- clearly there is a veiled threat here - as I suggested before - Ole is building up the numbers of DWB members to try to gain this leverage, and in his letter of the 8th July he clearly refers to support for "our" Karmapa. (apparently the same thing happened with the Buddhist council in Germany)

Ole clearly wants to pull some political strings to have influence in the Karma Kagyu lineage at quite a high level, and he dares to dictate what Shamarpa should post on his own website.

It is unfortunate that Shamarpa has to engage with Ole's political and rather unsubtle power games.


What stood out for me in Shamarpa's posts on his website was the idea that Vajrayana is appropriate for a more agressive climate, and it seems very obvious that DWB mambers have an investment in creating this climate to justify their own practices after the fact.

In my own experience this happened on a small scale - where incidents that could easily have been dealt with compassionately, and with patience and some understanding, instead got blown into full scale conflicts.

I see exactly the same thing happening in the above dialogue - where Shamarpa has clearly tried to deal with these issues privately prior to these public statements, and yet Ole has taken them as divisive and refused to compromise - refusing to defer to Shamarpa's higher wisdom, Ole has instead chosen to weild his own power - supported neither by wisdom nor compassion, but merely by sheer weight of numbers gained from his populist approach, Ole seems to have this "might is right" approach which he has also projected onto his phantom foe, Islam.

The point is not whether Ole teaches tantra, nor whether we choose to judge his sexual preaching as dignified or not - the fact remains the Ole teaches Vajrayana Buddhism and Shamarpa is very clear about the atmosphere which surrounds this form of practice.

No doubt those who feel they live in an agressive environment will say that is therefore appropriate - yet one has to question their perception (and creation) of this "agressive environment". Justifying one's behavior by rationalisation based upon one's own distorted perceptions - This is spiritual materialism at its worst.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2010 07:55AM by suenam.

sorry re-post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2010 07:49AM by suenam.

Hello all,

I have been following this thread for awhile and I want to thank you for maintaining this discussion opened and reasonable.
I have attended a few meditation sessions at a local DW center as well as reading a couple of Ole's books. It only took me a few weeks to realise that something was wrong with this man's teachings and his organisation.
I was quite shocked by the sneaky racists concepts of his rather simple presentation of Tibetan Budhism in his book "Entering the diamond way" When I shared my concerns with DW members they just told me that I didn't understand the concept of Karma or that Ole's doesn't mean it this way, he's not polically correct etc...But it was obvious that nobody were that bothered about it. Same regarding the gross generalisation and caricature of the muslim world in the same book and in his 1st one... I am now convinced that Ole's his doing this in purpose, I think he has a real hidden agenda on the subject of race and what it sees as an inherant superiotity of the West. I have even found an article posted on a Sionist website (taken from a danish nationalist webzine) were he's talking about the danger of Islam and how the young danish should join the army if they feel that their identity is threatened... We live in a free world and everybody has a right to express his/her opinion. Even the most obviously biased, short sighted and fascistic ones :) But I can't stop thinking that these simplistic views of sensitive and complex social issues as nothing to do with Budhism and even are in complete opposition to some basic principles.
A cult of personality is also rather evident in the DW organistion.

I am glad to see that the Shamarpa is now starting to realise that Ole's organistion is damaging to his cause. The Sharmapa seems to try to reconcile both sides of the Karmapa controversy now. Something you don't see at all in the DW org. were a slight paranoia seems to reign.( I have even been half jokingly accused of being a spy as I had quite a bit of knowledge of tibetan budhism and the karmapa controversy!
( I have heard la few of allusion to the "bad" karmapa followers and the evil of the Dalai Lama Lol!) And the superiority of the Diamond Way over the other buddhist traditions.

I was also quite shocked by the limited knowledge and teaching skills of the so called DW traveling teachers.

I was at first really angry about all this and now I am just sadden by the fact that someone like Ole can manipulate mostly young idealistic people into thinking that they are following an enlightened teacher when they are in fact learning some half-understood, watered down concepts of a fascinating and complex philosophy as well has beeing used by this organisation to the profit of this ego driven, and (actually a bit scary) leader.
Yes there is a need for western teachers to translate, preserve and comment on the tibetan budhist teachings but Ole is in my view far from being the right person and I am not even talking about his shaddy credentials. I have since my DW experience continue my studies of tibetan buddhism with the help of some useful books by Prof. Robert Thurman as well as the Dalai Lama and I will continue to explore other traditions and in particular the writings of zen teacher and peace activist Thích Nhất Hạnh.

Thanks a lot for your website and this thread which helped my to realise that I was not the only one to think that there was anything wrong with DW and Ole Nydhal.

Hey Alchi.

Thanks for your post. It is important that people like you voice your concerns regarding Nydahl and his devotees. Hopefully anyone looking for an authentic Buddhist practice will find these posts and avoide DWB or after being disillusioned by the group read these posts and decide to find authentic Dharma. I always try to say that Buddhist ideas and practice is the greatest gift we can give to ourselves. So to anyone who reads my posts I do not criticise Buddhism. I only warn against some of the extreme ideas propagated by Nydahl and "some" of his followers.

My views on Nydahl and his comments on race can be found elsewhere on this forum. I have first hand experience of his views having practiced for almost seven years with a DWB group. I met some very lovely people at the centre I attended almost all of whom were very suspicious of Nydahl. I was "shown the door" having lived in the centre for 12 months because I refused to accept Nydahl as my root lama. I accept some of his points regarding Islam but where I differ from Nydahl is that I oppose all human rights abuses, not just those perpetrated by Muslims.

It was with his devotees that I had my gravest concerns. I met many from Eastern Europe and I am in no doubt that they are "dyed in the wool racists".

As for his travelling teachers.... I sat through many talks by them and the vast majority were two hours of stories of Ole performing miracles, being heroic and had little to do with genuine Dharma. The idea with DWB is that you copy Ole's behaviour, adopt his ideas and then you will become enlightened.

If you question his credentials (an important point in Buddhism. Sharma Rinpoche warns against blind faith on many occassions) then you are criticised for lacking wisdom of for being "confused". When I left DWB I was told by a friend that the people who control the centre said it was because I had problems with my ego!!! They cannot or will not look at themselves in a critical way. If Nydahl tells them it's OK they just follow blindly. Sounds like cult activity to me.

Regarding Sharmapa's latest letter. I applaud his honesty and his wisdom. I only hope that Karmapa and Sharma Rinpoche put some distance between them and DWB so that their good work is not damaged by the scandals that will surely befall DWB in the coming years.

I just want to thank Sharma Rinpoche, whom I have the highest respect, for helping me realise that my misgivings about DWB are shared by someone with his vision.

I agree that Nydahls tone is agressive and unacceptable. Seems the retort from an ego that finds itself under attack. I was led to believe that Nydahl was "egoless" or at least he doesn't see himself as a "target".

I am sorry to see that Sharma Rinpoche has taken down his letter. I didn't think there was anything damaging to the lineage in the letter. The letter was damaging to DWB but not the Karma Kagyu. He suggests that personal sexual matters are not for open discussion within a Dharma context and that in these matters he urges people to conduct themselves with dignity. If Nydahl feels threatened by this then it can only go to show that there is some truth in it. In my opinion.

As for practicing the Vajrayana. Well, I'm more inclined to follow the instruction of Sharma Rinpoche and indeed Karmapa than some self appointed yogi warrior.

On the matter of Nydahl seeing himself as a yogi I can only guess that there will be $1000 cheques being handed out to all of his conquests!! He claims highest bliss is highest joy and that sexual union is one way of expressing this. I may be putting word into Nydahls mouth here but I often got the impression that it was a boast about his own sexual "powers". I may be wrong?

If this is the case then I can only assume the women who have been "blessed" by his penis are all owed $1000.

It also amused by Nydahls comment "that was why we so joyfully spoke of our deep bonds from many lives." Why does he alway dredge up this idea he has some mystical connection to the Karmapa's? I never hear of Sharmapa boasting about his deep bonds from past lives. It all goes to fuel this idea that he is in some way a mystic, that he is this warrior protector who has been following the Karmapa's.

I realise that I left DWB at just the right time. When Nydahl passes on then the massive ego's waiting in the wings will rise to the surface and we may well see what I think will be an inevitable split within DWB.

There are some bright people within DWB. Some compassionate and inquisitive people who seek an authentic practice. It saddens me to witness them sit on their hands while the right wing of DWB raises it's ugly head. But I do feel that when the ego's do start jockying for positions of power (I met a few big ego's while I attended) then the Karmapa and Sharma Rinpoche would do well to be as far removed as possible.

Does anyone have any quotes or any idea how other Buddhists feel toward this Karma Kagyu Diamond Way group?

Has the Dalai Lama or any others reprimanded Ole Nydahl for his behavior?

The Dalai Lama is the head of a completely different Buddhist school, the Gelugpa and has no authority to influence how the Karma Kagyu conducts it's affairs.

The Karma Kagyu pre-dates the Gelugpa by several hundred years. I believe the first Dalai Lama was a student of the fifth or eigth Karmapa. I'm not sure which? It could even be the fifth? Please check.

The fact that so many people end up imitating Ole and taking on something of his personality after taking refuge with him is proof that he is not an appropriate root lama.

Things went further downhill when he started using a westernized version of the refuge prayer that is down with prostrations. The previous version is a direct translation from the Tibetan and comes down through thje lineage and was in the original Ngondro book. The westernized version is his invention.

Sharmapa is 100 per cent correct when he refers to Ole's sex play as being undignified. Sexually orientated shows of affection during the teaching of phowa is not only a distraction, but is indeed undignified and shows a lack of respect for the profundity of the process.

The fact that Ole's "teachers" appear to have no independent realization and talk more as mouthpieces for Ole and DWB also reveals the current emptiness of the organization.

I guess Ole is too much of an "alpha dog" to ever admit he has made mistakes.

Hi All.
I have been new to this forum,
though, little bit familiar with the subject matter.
Thank you for posting so many informations.
Especially, the new infos to be found couple of days on Künzig Shamar Rinpoche page, about the lift a secret about Ole's first time contact and the confusion sex with dharma.
I was so fortunate to find these infos just in time on his web-page, some time later (some hours) it was wiped out again.
I know Ole Nydahl since the beginning he starts to teach and have to admit Shamar Rinpoches public (open letter) about sex and dharma, was most overdue in my opinion.
Also Rinpoche was able to publish Ole's respond to it and the immediate answer of Rinpoche, offers the audience a clear sight of contrast programm on both teachers motivations in the isssue.
Rinpoches emphatic essays did serve both significance.
In particular it was a clear critique on Lama Ole's style and content of his teachings, and it shows us clearly, that in general Rinpoche has by all means his own opinion about it. Not only this, he has the backbone to put through with it and to stay firm to his opinion.
Thank you Rinpoche to put the trouble on you to publish all content. Thank you all posters!

spacespirit

I sat through many talks given by travelling teachers over the years I was involved with DWB. Almost all of the travelling teacher talks were recorded at the centre I attended (and lived in for the last 12 months of my involvement) and I had the task of editing and making these recordings suitable for inclusion in the centres library resources. As a result I was able to listen to the talks by many different teachers in great detail several times over.

Without a doubt there are some very learned individuals who were able to explain the often complex Buddhist teachings in great detail. I think of Manfred Seigers as one example. I never really had an opportunity to sit and chat with him to see if all his knowledge had been put to good use thereby revealing a humanist with great compassion a quality I feel is appropriate for a Dharma teacher.

I raise this point because my experience of several travelling teachers left me quite disappointed and often had me question whether the practices actually worked!!?? I found several who were able to regurgitate what they had studied, academics amongst them, but when it came to putting the teachings into practice I found little empathy, compassion and warmth. Of course this is a subjective assessment and I am prepared to conceed that I may have been mistaken. Perhaps what I mistook for a lack of the above qualities may simply be due to cultural differences. But what I found with a number of travelling teachers was that they had filled their heads with these difficult concepts and overlooked what I consider to be a fundamental part in Buddhist teaching; the development of compassion and wisdom in equal measure.

Still other travelling teachers would arrive and talk about their adventures with Ole Nydahl. I always felt it was my duty to sit and feign how impressed I was with these Indiana Jones like adventures. Tales of Nydahl smuggling a hand gun through customs in South America, performing miracles during various stages of travel such as crashing a car into a tree only to discover that there was no impact but that the cars tyre track passed eaith side of the tree trunk (as if the car had somehow passed through a solid tree) and of his "superhuman" ability to work with almost no sleep for so many years.

I know that these talks were intended to present us with an example of a liberated teacher we could emulate. The idea being that this would propel us towards enlightenment. Nydahl would often say (and I grew tired of his clones trotting it out parrot fashion also) that it is pointless to keep checking experiences and your teacher. Perhaps he meant experiences with your teacher? But as I have said before on this forum, if we wish to cross a frozen lake we would quite rightly check the integrity of the ice before we ventured out across it. Only a fool would assume that because the ice didn't break for the first ten steps that the integrity with hold all the way to the other side!!!

This seemed to me like Nydahl (and his devotees) were trying to influence us. "If you check it and it seems OK then don't keep questioning it..... just relax and accept". If something seems to go against your values (Nydahl calls these "stiff ideas") then it is simply down to you lack of realisation.... because the Lama (in this case Nydahl) cannot be wrong!!!

So what did I learn from Nydahl's travelling teachers? A couple of them really did present some excellent talks which resulted in a deeper understand for me and a wish to understand more of the Buddhas profound teaching. To these few I say thank you. I feel your motivation was to share something precious out of a genuine wish to benefit others.

From the rest of his teachers..... I was given the impression that Nydahl is a juggernaut of an ego!!! I was left wondering just what these people really knew of Buddha's teachings? To wax lyrical about your adventures with Nydahl does not constitute a Dharma talk.... in my opinion.

And for the handful of others I encountered who saw the travelling teacher program as an opportunity to propogate race hate then shame on you.

Several UK travelling teachers I spoke to were also often dismayed with Nydahls rants against Islam but as far as I know never made a formal protest to him. I suspect this was so as not to lose their privileged travelling teacher status? Travelling teachers have their expenses met by the centres they attend on their itinery. They are given free food and lodging by the centres they visit. I do not find anything untoward in this. As far as I know non of the travelling teachers are paid for their work. But still there is a degree of kudos to be had as a travelling teacher. I have seen how they are fawned over at courses. I can only guess but I suspect the ego must bask in a warm glow of satisfaction given the amount of attention given to travelling teachers.

These are just my observation. Of course you must go and check out DWB for yourselves. But just because it "feels good" doesn't mean that it is good. Many find an active social group and friends to hang out with. This is fine. Just do not confuse this good feeling with a developing understanding of Buddha's teachings. If you find something is uncomfortable or doesn't meet with what you have come to accept as decent moral conduct then question it. DO NOT accept the idea that it is because of your lack of understanding. It might be due to a lack of understanding BUT it is your duty of care to yourself to question and check and oppose those things that are deemed unhealthy.

Afterall this is what Nydahl claims he is doing by being so forthright in his views on other religions, sexuality and politics.

S