Re: Chögyam Trungpa about Ole Nydahl
Posted by:
suenam
()
Date: September 08, 2010 03:18AM
- while I'm tempted to agree with you here, I do think there is a danger of downplaying the far right movement in countries like Denmark.Quote
herbieZH
I think the answer is much more simple: Having been a member of DWB for about 6 years and attending several of his lectures in that time I came to the conclusion that Ole is hopelessly naive and credulous.
The same thing could be said of the incident with the danish cartoonists who caused such offence. While appearing to be somewhat naive and even backward thinking, there is a danger that such unacceptable views are tolerated in the name of stupidity.
Quote
herbieZH
Just an intersting thought: Maybe this is a pattern being more common that one would think: Being overly succesful in our society seems to make an individual euphoric and "drunk" and more and more separates him/her from reality, like pop starts, managers, bankers.... Is there any pschological study on this phenomenon?
It sounds like you are describing narcissism, this may be a good place to start...
[en.wikipedia.org]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2010 03:20AM by suenam.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Alchi
()
Date: September 08, 2010 03:44PM
I agree with Suenam, you might be right regarding Ole being naive and credulous, but stupidity is dangerous, particularly when your business is religion or politics...
The DWB approach to Tibetan buddhism is "simple" and indeed anti-intelectual.
The organisation and the marketing side of things are pretty slick though.
You can say the same of many populist political or religious movements: Simple rethoric and a charismatic leader combined with a well oiled, efficient organisation.
So I might be wrong, but I don't think Ole is just a naive and delusional old fool, I think there is a much darker side to it.
The DWB approach to Tibetan buddhism is "simple" and indeed anti-intelectual.
The organisation and the marketing side of things are pretty slick though.
You can say the same of many populist political or religious movements: Simple rethoric and a charismatic leader combined with a well oiled, efficient organisation.
So I might be wrong, but I don't think Ole is just a naive and delusional old fool, I think there is a much darker side to it.
Re: Chögyam Trungpa about Ole Nydahl
Posted by:
herbieZH
()
Date: September 08, 2010 05:48PM
Quote
suenamQuote
herbieZH
Just an intersting thought: Maybe this is a pattern being more common that one would think: Being overly succesful in our society seems to make an individual euphoric and "drunk" and more and more separates him/her from reality, like pop starts, managers, bankers.... Is there any pschological study on this phenomenon?
It sounds like you are describing narcissism, this may be a good place to start...
[en.wikipedia.org]
Thanks for pointing me in this direction. And an interesting coincidence: It helped me in a completely unrelated issue I am currently dealing with.
So thanks again for this information!
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
milarepa
()
Date: September 11, 2010 05:51PM
HEY GUYS ANOTHER VERY INTERESTING LIE! What is very interesting if you go to Sharmapa's website you will never been able to find this letter! Hey what is going on here? Why do they need this 'made up support'?
Try to go to Sharmapa's page and look for the letter!(what has no existence)
No.56/10
Author: Künzig Shamar Rinpoche
Date: 09 September 2010
Subject: from Künzig Shamar Rinpoche
-----------------------------------------------------------
We are glad to inform you about Shamar Rinpoche's latest
clarification published on his website.
02.09.10
Clarification about Tantra and Lama Ole
Recently, I had received a lot of information about Lama
Ole claiming he has been teaching his students about sex
as a Tantric practice. According to this information, I
made an announcement on my website about this topic in
general, explaining that many Westerners have a
misunderstanding of Tantra and its relationship to sex.
This statement was made for Western audiences on the whole
and not about Lama Ole in particular. However, as he is
also a Western Tantric teacher, and I was informed that
he also taught in this way, I included him in the statement.
In this announcement I mentioned that, as I remember, when
Lama Ole was a young man in the days of hippies he had
received teachings about the practice of male and female
deities in union. I had made the supposition that, if
Lama Ole is teaching sex as a Tantric practice, it most
likely must be connected to this time when he was first
getting exposed to Buddhist teachings from his teachers
in those young and impressionable times of his youth.
After making this announcement on my website, I received
so many clarifications from his students stating that they
had never heard Lama Ole in any teaching mentioning that
sex is important to Tantra. As a result of these letters,
I investigated further into the matter to find out whether
what I had heard was true or not. After I had inquired
thoroughly through various connections, I came to the
conclusion that the information I had received previously
was not accurate. I had discovered that he had only given
an answer to a lady in Virginia, USA explaining that he
himself could not give up the pleasures of sex. It is true
that a majority of his students have been behaving too
openly affectionate, giving the explanation that they
believe it is best not to be hypocritical. Regarding this
opinion, I feel this is a mistake in view. The idea of
sexuality not being suitable for public display is based
on civilized behaviour and is not in any way an act of
hypocrisy. In any case, it has been confirmed to me that
Lama Ole is not teaching sexual practices as a Tantric
method or tradition. Therefore, I apologize to the readers,
as the information I had received earlier was incorrect.
[www.shamarpa.org]
=============================================================
Editorial Board:
Caty Hartung [mailto:Caty@diamondway-buddhism.org]
Dafydd Morriss [mailto:Dafydd@diamondway-buddhism.org]
for Buddhistischer Dachverband Diamantweg e.V.,
Wuppertal, Germany
Try to go to Sharmapa's page and look for the letter!(what has no existence)
No.56/10
Author: Künzig Shamar Rinpoche
Date: 09 September 2010
Subject: from Künzig Shamar Rinpoche
-----------------------------------------------------------
We are glad to inform you about Shamar Rinpoche's latest
clarification published on his website.
02.09.10
Clarification about Tantra and Lama Ole
Recently, I had received a lot of information about Lama
Ole claiming he has been teaching his students about sex
as a Tantric practice. According to this information, I
made an announcement on my website about this topic in
general, explaining that many Westerners have a
misunderstanding of Tantra and its relationship to sex.
This statement was made for Western audiences on the whole
and not about Lama Ole in particular. However, as he is
also a Western Tantric teacher, and I was informed that
he also taught in this way, I included him in the statement.
In this announcement I mentioned that, as I remember, when
Lama Ole was a young man in the days of hippies he had
received teachings about the practice of male and female
deities in union. I had made the supposition that, if
Lama Ole is teaching sex as a Tantric practice, it most
likely must be connected to this time when he was first
getting exposed to Buddhist teachings from his teachers
in those young and impressionable times of his youth.
After making this announcement on my website, I received
so many clarifications from his students stating that they
had never heard Lama Ole in any teaching mentioning that
sex is important to Tantra. As a result of these letters,
I investigated further into the matter to find out whether
what I had heard was true or not. After I had inquired
thoroughly through various connections, I came to the
conclusion that the information I had received previously
was not accurate. I had discovered that he had only given
an answer to a lady in Virginia, USA explaining that he
himself could not give up the pleasures of sex. It is true
that a majority of his students have been behaving too
openly affectionate, giving the explanation that they
believe it is best not to be hypocritical. Regarding this
opinion, I feel this is a mistake in view. The idea of
sexuality not being suitable for public display is based
on civilized behaviour and is not in any way an act of
hypocrisy. In any case, it has been confirmed to me that
Lama Ole is not teaching sexual practices as a Tantric
method or tradition. Therefore, I apologize to the readers,
as the information I had received earlier was incorrect.
[www.shamarpa.org]
=============================================================
Editorial Board:
Caty Hartung [mailto:Caty@diamondway-buddhism.org]
Dafydd Morriss [mailto:Dafydd@diamondway-buddhism.org]
for Buddhistischer Dachverband Diamantweg e.V.,
Wuppertal, Germany
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Anika
()
Date: September 11, 2010 11:41PM
Quote
milarepa
HEY GUYS ANOTHER VERY INTERESTING LIE! What is very interesting if you go to Sharmapa's website you will never been able to find this letter! Hey what is going on here? Why do they need this 'made up support'?
Try to go to Sharmapa's page and look for the letter!(what has no existence)
Hello Milarepa,
I'm reading in this thread for some weeks, because this topic concerns me personaly. For the same reason I am looking regulary for new statements on Shamar Rinpoche's website.
I believe your are mistaken here. This statement was on Sharma Rinpoche's webside for a few days. Then it was removed. I think you should know this.
I want to thank you all for the support you give to doubtful people like me.
best wishes
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
herbieZH
()
Date: September 11, 2010 11:51PM
Quote
milarepa
HEY GUYS ANOTHER VERY INTERESTING LIE! What is very interesting if you go to Sharmapa's website you will never been able to find this letter! Hey what is going on here? Why do they need this 'made up support'?
Try to go to Sharmapa's page and look for the letter!(what has no existence)
No.56/10
Author: Künzig Shamar Rinpoche
Date: 09 September 2010
Subject: from Künzig Shamar Rinpoche
-----------------------------------------------------------
We are glad to inform you about Shamar Rinpoche's latest
clarification published on his website.
02.09.10
Clarification about Tantra and Lama Ole
Recently, I had received a lot of information about Lama
Ole claiming he has been teaching his students about sex
as a Tantric practice. According to this information, I
made an announcement on my website about this topic in
general, explaining that many Westerners have a
misunderstanding of Tantra and its relationship to sex.
This statement was made for Western audiences on the whole
and not about Lama Ole in particular. However, as he is
also a Western Tantric teacher, and I was informed that
he also taught in this way, I included him in the statement.
In this announcement I mentioned that, as I remember, when
Lama Ole was a young man in the days of hippies he had
received teachings about the practice of male and female
deities in union. I had made the supposition that, if
Lama Ole is teaching sex as a Tantric practice, it most
likely must be connected to this time when he was first
getting exposed to Buddhist teachings from his teachers
in those young and impressionable times of his youth.
After making this announcement on my website, I received
so many clarifications from his students stating that they
had never heard Lama Ole in any teaching mentioning that
sex is important to Tantra. As a result of these letters,
I investigated further into the matter to find out whether
what I had heard was true or not. After I had inquired
thoroughly through various connections, I came to the
conclusion that the information I had received previously
was not accurate. I had discovered that he had only given
an answer to a lady in Virginia, USA explaining that he
himself could not give up the pleasures of sex. It is true
that a majority of his students have been behaving too
openly affectionate, giving the explanation that they
believe it is best not to be hypocritical. Regarding this
opinion, I feel this is a mistake in view. The idea of
sexuality not being suitable for public display is based
on civilized behaviour and is not in any way an act of
hypocrisy. In any case, it has been confirmed to me that
Lama Ole is not teaching sexual practices as a Tantric
method or tradition. Therefore, I apologize to the readers,
as the information I had received earlier was incorrect.
[www.shamarpa.org]
=============================================================
Editorial Board:
Caty Hartung [mailto:Caty@diamondway-buddhism.org]
Dafydd Morriss [mailto:Dafydd@diamondway-buddhism.org]
for Buddhistischer Dachverband Diamantweg e.V.,
Wuppertal, Germany
Well, it has been on the website, but only for a few days. I think Shamarpa decided to only leave it there as long as needed and as short as possible. Totally fine with me, I very likely would have done the same.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
milarepa
()
Date: September 12, 2010 12:42AM
guys,
this letter just started to circulate and maybe it was on his website but why would he take it off? If it is his statement and if he is thinking about this seriously why would he take it off? You have never ever asked this question? Is it what people do ususally?
Of course not! Be clear about this as you can put a statement when you are clear and supportive with your idea but if not you will clear it up.
Maybe for herbieZH is ok but people who has a clear vision it is very suspicious. This shows it is not the truth this is just a fabricated truth to try to wash ole clean. Even though everyone knows what is really going on within this cult.
Dear Anika,
what is really concerns you in this case? Ole or the buddhist path? Please tell me your experience would be interesting to know. Or your concerns maybe here we can help.
That is this forum for.
best wishes to you as well (although i feel people say this in dwb and they do not mean it!!) so i mean it now
this letter just started to circulate and maybe it was on his website but why would he take it off? If it is his statement and if he is thinking about this seriously why would he take it off? You have never ever asked this question? Is it what people do ususally?
Of course not! Be clear about this as you can put a statement when you are clear and supportive with your idea but if not you will clear it up.
Maybe for herbieZH is ok but people who has a clear vision it is very suspicious. This shows it is not the truth this is just a fabricated truth to try to wash ole clean. Even though everyone knows what is really going on within this cult.
Dear Anika,
what is really concerns you in this case? Ole or the buddhist path? Please tell me your experience would be interesting to know. Or your concerns maybe here we can help.
That is this forum for.
best wishes to you as well (although i feel people say this in dwb and they do not mean it!!) so i mean it now
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Anika
()
Date: September 12, 2010 04:21AM
Dear Milarepa,
thank you for your interest in my concerns. I 'm afraid this would be, even in my own language, hard to explain. But I'll try and hope that I get it across to you.
After I got in touch with buddhism for the first time in 2004 , I seeked for a possibility to learn more about meditation and the buddhist path. The only centre in my town was a dwb centre - so I went there and stayed there. I guess I made pretty much the same experience as the others that wrote here before. It didn't take me long to realise, that I had more concern and discomfort as devotion for Ole. But I liked some of the people in the group very much - I still do, they are my friends - I don't understand why the follow someone like Ole and less I understand the way they follow him. Sadly I coudn't find a way to talk about that with them.
I have started to attend other groups (Boddhi Path) after two years dwb and feel right there. So I think my concern isn't the buddhist path - I feel fine with that. My concern is Ole and his importance to the groups and I have a tough time to quit with dwb and leave my friends. I was hoping that Karmapa and Shamar Rinpoche would get more influence on the dwb groups, but after the last incidents my hope is almost gone.
So thank you again for your sympathy. I hope my English isn't too awful and too difficult to understand.
thank you for your interest in my concerns. I 'm afraid this would be, even in my own language, hard to explain. But I'll try and hope that I get it across to you.
After I got in touch with buddhism for the first time in 2004 , I seeked for a possibility to learn more about meditation and the buddhist path. The only centre in my town was a dwb centre - so I went there and stayed there. I guess I made pretty much the same experience as the others that wrote here before. It didn't take me long to realise, that I had more concern and discomfort as devotion for Ole. But I liked some of the people in the group very much - I still do, they are my friends - I don't understand why the follow someone like Ole and less I understand the way they follow him. Sadly I coudn't find a way to talk about that with them.
I have started to attend other groups (Boddhi Path) after two years dwb and feel right there. So I think my concern isn't the buddhist path - I feel fine with that. My concern is Ole and his importance to the groups and I have a tough time to quit with dwb and leave my friends. I was hoping that Karmapa and Shamar Rinpoche would get more influence on the dwb groups, but after the last incidents my hope is almost gone.
So thank you again for your sympathy. I hope my English isn't too awful and too difficult to understand.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
jah
()
Date: September 13, 2010 01:56AM
Yes, it would be very helpful if both Karmapa and Sharmapa would aid in weaning the sangat off their attachment to Ole, and Ole off himself.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
milarepa
()
Date: September 13, 2010 05:04AM
Dear Anika,
Thank you for your letter and your english is perfect. I totally understand this and i think you were clever and lucky enough to get out. I think we are still human so of course does not matter where we belong we can always find good people. Just the question is how long they will be your friend( i hope for long) as after a while the connection would get looser and looser. And they will find it hard to not to talk about ole as he is their God with you or if they will they can get into arguments with you. I had similar experience and tell the truth the friends who i thought they are good friends disappeared after i left the cult. And now i have friends from there but they have given up on dwb.
I was happy when Shamar Rinpoche expressed his opinion but it is a kind of politics. We don't know why he changed his mind why he is not continuing making stronger points against ole's activities. I think a lot of things are hidden and i think ole has a bigger influence on politics then buddhism and of course it is MONEY involved as well.
I think nobody else can do here anything just us the people who do not like the way how is it going people who are writing here. We should all get together and do something about it as it would start to change something. But i have a feeling people are still scared and just want to write.
We should not be scared we should do something but the main importance is not to against buddhism just against the hierarchy within the group and the person who makes people brainwashed instead of giving them a right way to do their meditation and practice.
I am hoping that i would be start and collect some people l who wants to do something and help.
Thank your for your honesty it was really nice to read your letter.
Thank you for your letter and your english is perfect. I totally understand this and i think you were clever and lucky enough to get out. I think we are still human so of course does not matter where we belong we can always find good people. Just the question is how long they will be your friend( i hope for long) as after a while the connection would get looser and looser. And they will find it hard to not to talk about ole as he is their God with you or if they will they can get into arguments with you. I had similar experience and tell the truth the friends who i thought they are good friends disappeared after i left the cult. And now i have friends from there but they have given up on dwb.
I was happy when Shamar Rinpoche expressed his opinion but it is a kind of politics. We don't know why he changed his mind why he is not continuing making stronger points against ole's activities. I think a lot of things are hidden and i think ole has a bigger influence on politics then buddhism and of course it is MONEY involved as well.
I think nobody else can do here anything just us the people who do not like the way how is it going people who are writing here. We should all get together and do something about it as it would start to change something. But i have a feeling people are still scared and just want to write.
We should not be scared we should do something but the main importance is not to against buddhism just against the hierarchy within the group and the person who makes people brainwashed instead of giving them a right way to do their meditation and practice.
I am hoping that i would be start and collect some people l who wants to do something and help.
Thank your for your honesty it was really nice to read your letter.
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