from the hare krishna sex files (god.)
[www.hknet.org.nz]

"Srimad Bhagavad Gita gives the bottom line on sex, where Lord Sri Krishna asures His devotee, dharmäviruddho bhüteshu kämo ’smi bharatarshabha - "I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, Oh Lord of the Bhäratas [Arjuna]". (Bhagavad Gita 7:1.)"


Hmmmm.... something told me it did not actually say that.

from www.bhagavad-gita.us (as it is)
7.1
""The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Now hear, O son of Pritha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from doubt."

/www.hinduwebsite.com
/www.hinduwebsite.com/gita7.asp
7.1
"Said the Lord Supreme, "O, Partha now listen to this with your mind devoted to Me, practicing Yoga and taking refuge in Me, you can know Me completely without any doubt."

Sex IS yoga, and sex not out of balance, as a union (yoga) would most definately be a window for the divine.

Notice how 'as it is' uses the word "mind ATTACHED to me", thanks, A.C., I am sure an attached mind was what the Authors wanted to communicate... attached, enlightened, same thing, good enough.

a couple more...
[www.sacred-texts.com]
an 1885 translation
7.1

"Krishna. Learn now, dear Prince! how, if thy soul be set
Ever on Me- still exercising Yog,
Still making Me thy Refuge- thou shalt come
Most surely unto perfect hold of Me.
I will declare to thee that utmost lore,
Whole and particular, which, when thou knowest,
Leaveth no more to know here in this world."

from mind attached to soul set, soul set seems better, but I would say that means your being exists in the energy of unity or love (god), the characters are (and were ment to be) metaphors for personal and internal phenomenon.

Ah, yes... these guys nailed it, I would say

[www.bhagavad-gita.org]
7.1
"Lord Krishna said... O Arjuna hear how that with your consciousness absorbed in me, taking complete shelter of me, executing the science of uniting the individual consciousness with the ultimate consciousness, you will be able to know me completely free from doubt."


I gotcha, and I know what Krishna was meant to represent.
I also know what he has evolved into... and I'm outta here.

Quote
Rama Das (slave name)
Yes, all you male followers of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, your "love" for your male MASTER and the transgendered deity Krishna coupled with all the celibacy you strive for, makes you a whole lot gayer than most.

That's probably why they stopped wearing the dhoti - so as to get away from the transvestite connotation???

:?:

Quote
cultreporter
Dear Haribols - the only place you are going to get is Siddha-loka where you have to work in a kitchen with a bag on your head and being chastised for all eternity surviving on a diet of toenails and footwater[/color:d4cc964666]

Hey people, you know that there must be something [b:d4cc964666][i:d4cc964666]very wrong [/i:d4cc964666][/b:d4cc964666]when a guru starts telling people to put bags over their heads...

:idea: Maybe he himself actually places the bags over people's heads - in which case there might be a case for physical abuse? hindering someone's breathing process??? Assault???

:?:

Quote
just-googling

I.E. Supposedly we originally [b:a458729bf3]really[/b:a458729bf3] had Krishna in the very beginning - BUT we still [b:a458729bf3]WERE NOT HAPPY [/b:a458729bf3]and thus [b:a458729bf3]wanted something more[/b:a458729bf3], i.e. to be the supreme enjoyers, and thus fell down to the material world...

Supposedly we were full of transcendental [b:a458729bf3]knowledge[/b:a458729bf3] in the spiritual world but were still [b:a458729bf3]stupid enough [/b:a458729bf3]to fall down into the material world, despite knowing the incredible amount of suffering here - WHO WOULD DO IT??? It does not make any sense, really. Does anybody else see this contradiction, or is it just me with blinders on???

PS - I did ask this question of Jagged Guru a long time ago, and he gave a very roundabout answer, but the question did really not get answered.

:?: :?: :?:

Totally to the core - I wonder if by 'very round about answer' you mean he threw a chair or chastised you for mental speculation and condemned you to hell.

The whole thing works a lot better when you tell your followers just to read the books that you write yourself where the closest they are going to get to contemplating Krishna is the picture on the cover.

I'm sure that this is the siamese twin brother theological contradiction of my all time personal favourite - that Krishna doesn't want or need or our worship. He gave us free will BUT what we are meant to do with it is spend every moment thinking about him, offer him our food and every material thing we have or can get, chant his names because that is our natural state of being (the actual "[i:a458729bf3]science[/i:a458729bf3]" of identity).

Now if even Jagag Guru can't answer how souls that never thought of anything but Krishna conceived of something else then I certainly don't have a chance - but I am not always condemning the 'impersonalists' for teaching that they are god 'but they forgot'. Seems there is quite a lot of forgetfulness regarding our true identities going around.

So the whole basis of KC is to have a personal relationship with God recognising him as a person, and this relationship can be in the form of a parent, a child, a conjucal lover, a friend (I am sure there is another one that escapes me right at this moment). And what does one get from such a relationship - besides if they ask this question, even in the privacy of their own mind, thoroughly condemned for a lack of the requisitie devotion - NOTHING. If this were the conditions of a personal relationship with any one but the supreme soul even Dr Phil would be induced to weeping from despair.

Krishna will give you what you need - including what you need to be fixed in spiritual life - he is even so kind as to give this consideration to those that worshp the demigods. Sometimes what you need is cancer or a relationship breakdown or a miscarriage, but bad things don't come from Krishna - they come from you not having a good enough relationship with him. When something good happens then you can grovel and thank him for it. While I am not good enough for Krishna to give me a husband and a baby [i:a458729bf3]somehow[/i:a458729bf3] those who have never heard of him get along just fine in this regard, even people that didn't want a baby or abuse and neglect them or have them born addicted to heroin. Oh the horror in my beloved's response when I got sick to death of watching him destroy himself under the illusion that Krishna was making his life better and asked him how about you recognise the one that is actually making your life better (ie ME) 8 years with Krishna had you living in a garage and it sure wasn't him paying half the rent on the 4 bedroom house to get you out of there. Krishna isn't watching your son so you can chant and read books on the weekend, Krishna didn't fill that void that caused you to run yourself bankrupt from gambling addiction - it was me that you were staying at home with. You can hate me now but you can't [i:a458729bf3]ever[/i:a458729bf3] point the finger at the supreme controller.

So what went wrong? What is going on with all these ex-devotees? We just weren't good enough?? Hell no, we are the abused wives of the tyrannical husband tired of saying that we walked into a door, the children of the mother that never hugged us, the friends of a big blue Paris Hilton that just got sick of being around when it suited her completely self absorbed whims.

How personal can any relationship be when it is abundantly clear that the other party couldn't care less about you beyond draining every well of your soul dry? Siddha compares relationships to two empty cups coming together each wanting the other to fill them but they can't because they are both empty - well I know exactly how devotees (which lets face it are the only people that he knows enough to be referring to) got that way.

It is no wonder that these people can't form a friendship or keep a marriage together or love their children unconditionally when this is their concept of a perfect relationship.

Anyway I just thought that I would say that before I get onto the subject that this will be my last post. As I am sure everyone has gathered I am not a happy person, and eventhough this forum and the people here have been great the fact remains that I struggle everyday with the urge to down a box full of pills to forget this world even exists.

Last night I took down everything that I have put up on-line, except for of course my posts here which are thoughts I have relinquished all control over. No matter what I do or how much I reflect on it I will never comprehend or be ok with the facts of such impersonal apathy and unmotivated cruelty exists towards other souls as I have seen in Science of Identity. I cannot play the games of lies and manipulation although I have tried to get their attention and make them realise some elements of the truth.

I will never be happier than when I could feel Krishna and when I was with the man that I love everyday or sadder than I am now that it is all gone. It is the best and worst of this life.

I would not give up the best eventhough I know this is how it ends.

Namaste to you all.

Cara

[i:7154441f67]postscript[/i:7154441f67]

:arrow: We ended up here in the first instance because we wanted to have more enjoyment

:arrow: People do not take up KC because they are enjoying material life too much

:?: So why chant/serve/wear a bag on your head to get back to a place where we were not happy to start off with :?:

:arrow: Kirhsna doesn't want or need our worship anyway

:arrow: And even if you do come back as a three toed sloth because you preferred to sit on the couch than go to kirtan you are not going to remember anyway.

(I forgot the contradiction of a supremely loving, merciful and forgiving god that punishes us through karma for a past life that we can't even remember [i:7154441f67]and um how do you get rid of that bad karma?? dancing shakes it off, well my that is scientific [/i:7154441f67]:? )

:idea: We're happy not worshipping Krishna and he doesn't want or need us to then I guess we have an agreement!

[b:7154441f67]BTW, just so there is no misunderstanding I also forgot to the SOI spies I am sure that you have all prayed that at the very least that I will shut up and probably that I will get hit by a truck - the truth is your prayers are not the reason. I did it out of love for Brendon because he asked me to. Sounds like something god should hve done but [u:7154441f67]didn't[/b:7154441f67][/u:7154441f67][/color:7154441f67]

So sad not to see a post here all day - but at least the viewings stayed consistent. Hopefully the smell of straw burning will carry on the cyber winds again soon and the great Ozhole (I miss zelig) will flee in his (self fuelled) hot air balloon.

The words of SOI members are not worth much. I knew this and yes should have known better but I am nothing if not soft hearted (try me, seriously it's true) These things eventually run their course and "All things must pass" I guess that when one grows accustomed to lying about everything and living in a delusion that it seems like a perfectly sensible plan to say "Yes I do want to be with you" just to get the sites down and then the very next day go back on it. Hey I did what I could (and I never said I was smart - I imagine all you guys shaking your head and thinking she fell for [i:6bbf9afb25]that[/i:6bbf9afb25]) Maybe we can put it down to a blonde thing :wink:

Anyway I have some good info to make up for it -

[b:6bbf9afb25]Evidence of Brainwashing in SOI[/color:6bbf9afb25][/size:6bbf9afb25][/b:6bbf9afb25]

[www.gopala.org]

Quote

In the spring of 1973, I was staying in ISKCON Los Angeles (New Dvaraka). Srila Prabhupada’s servant, Nanda Kumara dasa, invited me to go up with him for a visit to Srila Prabhupada’s quarters. I was delighted for the rare opportunity. Once inside His Divine Grace’s room, both Nanda Kumara and I paid obeisances and took seats on the floor. Our entrance went practically unnoticed since the atmosphere was super intense. Karandhara and another senior devotee (most likely Jayatirtha) were reporting the latest activities from Hawaii to His Divine Grace. They described how Siddhaswarupa dasa (formerly Sai) was carrying on a program called “psychic sleep” as a means to interest people in Krishna consciousness. Guests of the temple were guided to lie down on their backs with their heads mostly toward the speaker or coach and the lights were turned down low. [b:6bbf9afb25]The leader/teacher tried to put them into a trancelike state[/b:6bbf9afb25] by suggesting that they mentally massage different parts of their bodies beginning from the feet up. Attempting to sooth their consciousness he would say, “You are relaxing more and more.” At a certain point soft bhajan or just tape-recorded mystical music was added to provide background sound. [b:6bbf9afb25]The goal was to induce the guests to reach a stage of “psychic sleep,” which was expected to make them more susceptible to the gentle message about Krishna which the devotee guide would then impart. [/b:6bbf9afb25]Gradually the group was led into understanding that they are not the bodies but eternal spirit souls etc.
When Srila Prabhupada heard about “psychic sleep” in Hawaii he became very upset. “But they were not doing that when I was there,” he said. The devotees in the room could only reply that despite not employing “psychic sleep” in his presence, the temple was definitely engaged in it now. His Divine Grace declared, “This is an adulteration, a contamination, it will ruin everything. Just as milk is homogenized then pasteurized and then so many things are skimmed out, the pure milk is adulterated. There is nothing left of any value in the milk, it simply looks white like milk. Similarly, your Krsna consciousness will start off pure but the first adulteration will be you think this psychic sleep is necessary to bring Krsna consciousness. Then more adulterations, until finally you’ll think that without LSD you will not be able to chant Hare Krishna nicely.” His Divine Grace adamantly ordered that “psychic sleep” be stopped at once.

This is not simply [i:6bbf9afb25][b:6bbf9afb25]another[/b:6bbf9afb25][/i:6bbf9afb25] example of Siddha being completely at odds with the teachings and wishes of ACB but an account of him deliberately attempting to manipulate individual's consciousness - contradicting himself when he says that "you cannot trick one into loving God" and engaging in good old fashioned brain washing techniques.

The "psychic sleep" which in [b:6bbf9afb25]no way[/b:6bbf9afb25] resembles any form of meditation is an exact replication of the 'progressive relaxation method' of hypnosis.

Progressive relaxation is one of the most common forms of hypnosis and taught to most clinical psychologists. It is used to foster suggestibility for altering an individual's thought patterns and belief systems.

The above account not only relates that it was being imparted but with the intent of making people more 'susceptible' to the message Siddha desired that they accept.

In Australia I know from personal experience that this method is still being practiced and called "Deep Peace Meditation". It is a regular feature of the program offerred through the ASM centres and their outreach, such as at Logan University, particularly for new people.

Having let the fact that I along with a room full of people were hypnotised and that this carries on on a three times a week basis without anyone's knowledge or willing participation sink in SOI awareness takes on the aura of a valuable pursuit. It is also an increasingly frightening prospect. I know it is a sign of weakness (another one in me) and all but I could definitely use the participation and support of anyone that would like to offer it in movng forward with all this information and making it widely available.

I am sincerely disappointed that now I need to spend my time attempting to set right the wrong doing here.

One who is sincerely in love with another would understand that this love is not dependant on how one is treated by the other person, or indeed if one was in a relationship with God Himself.

People are reluctant to accept that they simply have bad karma and this is the result off activities in their past lives. It is true that many are too caught up in wanting to be the enjoyer than to follow the teachings of a bonafide Spiritual Master. That is the reason why misery exists.

Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa is such a perfect Spiritual Master. His teachings are perfect and simply cannot be comprehended by our imperfect material senses. This is why we cannot appraoch God ourselves but must go through Him.

When one takes up the responsibility of fathering a child he is responsible to that woman for the rest of his life. He cannot simply choose someone he likes better. Just as when someone takes the responsibility of seeking to surrender to a Spiritual Master they must make amends for any offences. Otherwise they simply cannot be forgiven for them. How else can a person learn and accept responsibility for their own actions?

Science of Identity is not a cult except in the definition made up by those who have already decided that they are against God. A cult is really just a group of like minded people, and this is exactly as we are here. A group of people who choose to come together to practice meditation and share the wisdom of the enlightened Jagad Guru. As enjoyers and slaves to your senses you do not comprehend that surrender is a sign of empowerment - to get off this eternal wheel of birth and death. You associate it as being a sign of weakness. Freedom is not renunciation of responsibility and only accepting what makes you happy. Happiness is not permanent anyway. You may have a perfect relationship where you feel nothing but love and enjoy everyday together - but eventually your husband is going to die.

When your car is broken down you call a mechanic right - because you do not have the knowledge to fix it for yourself. Do you really want trust something as important as your life to the knowledge of an amateur - or someone who simply thinks they know what they are doing but they are not sure? Do not be so foolish!

Anyone speaking about Science of Identity as they do here on this board is leading people into hell.

My Dear Friends (Rama, Cult, Googling, Zelig, Ross)

I landed in Egypt tonight. I have been travelling across several countries in the last week and that is why I have not been able to post. My next destination is Morocco.

I am sitting in this little place, digging deep on my white fix and thinking of you all. I know I am a junkie in the worst sense of the word but at least I am a successful junkie untainted by puss and god. I make good movies, even worthy of Cannes awards.

Any way I just wanted you all to know that I always am thinking of you, even when I cross continents, and particularly I have been thinking of SOI's elevated thinking of itself above the rest of the human race: what I would like SOI to know is that the rest of the human race affords SOI a tolerated place. I am in constant contact with Krishna and Krishna has told me that that Western society tolerates Jagad Guru and his followers despite their extreme ignorance.

SOI likes to think that despite its participants lack of education, brains, imagination and anything else that somehow they have some sort of elevated position above the rest of the human race: I would like to tell them that them and their children are tolerated in and BY OUR society purely by virtue of our democratic dream that we have given life to over by the centuries, we give them and their welfare children a place in our society by virtue of our pure democratic and free vision. I tell you Chris you would not last one minute in North Korea, you would be thrown out in a minute and recognised in a second for the fraud you are. The West gives you a chance to be a free fraud.

We in the West tolerate fuckwit frauds like you by virtue of our democratic coat which gives live to the spawn of small shells like you. Chris, we give life to to liars like you, we tolerate you, by virture of the democratic dream, because we know that the overall benefit of society is in our best interests, so we give life, to fuckwits like you, we pay your taxes, we pay your welfare fraud, we tolerate fringe outcasts like you.

Chris you are a liar, and your followers are liars, just like you: nevertheless we pay to have outcasts like you and your followers in society. We the taxpayers support you and your losers who have no sustainable dream of the afterlife.

WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO KNOW THAT WE SUPPPORT YOU always, IN OUR TAXES BECAUSE People LIKE YOU FALLS INTO SOME OBSCURE CATEGORY LIKE "save the world". We would like you to know that despite your imaginationary wonderings we actually support cults you, we sustain you, in the betterment of humankind, because we know that it is better not to stifle frauds like you, I would just like you to know that YOU ARE A FRAUD AND IF IT WAS NOT FOR STIFFS LIKE US, you would not FEED LIKE YOU DO.

So dont cross me I have the direct ear of Krishna,

What you dont understand Chris is that society tolerates you and your kind for the betterment of mankind,

we pay for your mistakes and your outlandish childish ideas,

we tolerate you,

you do not tolerate us.

we allow people like you to live in our society, Krishna told me,

because you are weak and we need to take care of you

Hi RK das,

As an enquiring mind I have a few questions for you. Firstly are you kidding yourself coming onto a forum designed for discussing cults in open manner with that bullshit introduction to promote your cult? I mean seriously are you really so blind as to how much of a foolish joke that makes you? Further, we all know you have known about this thread for sometime now and you chose this time to come on. Now that Cara took her sites down - and believe me I am going to be encouraging her to put them back up and with even greater derision of your cult.

But seriously why didn't you come on to spread your bullshit two months ago?

I have seen you attempt to recruit followers with the same bullshit time and again and it doesn't work that well. You hide the fact that you chant the Hare Krsna mantra in an attempt to not be associated with 'Hare Krsnas'. Is Krishna so embarrasing for you? This is the Supreme Being and you are ashamed of him? Then your new recruits find out and think WTF have I gotten myself into? You yourself have been called a liar for this. Do you hide the words of Siddhaswarupanada because you are ashamed of him also? Then you don't offer an education to the kids on the Gold Coast and they sit around bored out of their minds with nothing to do but gossip about all the other members of the cult - which is mostly instigated by the parents.

Why are Siddha's closest disciples eating his toenails? WTF if anything does that have to do with love? I seriously want to know. By your idea of love - not being dependant on how one is treated - why has Siddha accused all his followers of trying to kill him? Is that love or is that simply paranoia from his LSD days? Why did he cruelly tell everyone to fast for six months and request others wear a bag on their head?

I mean why is this stuff not part of the introduction? Are you ashamed of your guru for behaving this way or are you ashmed for following it? If this is God's representative why did his prediction of the Y2K bug destroying the modern world not come true? Now he predicts an avian flu plague and that doesn't come true either?

Siddha selling off Bhaktivedanta's temple? The credit card scam? Siddha marrying his disciple's wife?

The thing that really cinched it for me that you were a bunch of liars though was the changing of Caitanya's holy prayers on the Yoga Sound CD. Siddha himself criticised christians for changing the Holy Bible and condemns ISKCON for changing ACB's books, calling it blasphemy and here he is substituting the words 'Holy Names' to 'yoga sounds'. How many lifetimes in the hellish planets do you think Siddha will get for that? Or Mike Gabbard for denying his guru? Or you for that matter for spreading this bullshit even though you know what a fraud he is?

If your little speech is about Brendon's treatment of Cara I can tell you he has never treated anyone in his life with love. He is my brother and your philosophy has little to do with it so don't kid yourself.

You know who I am and you can attack my character all you wish. I guess we will see how staunch you are.

Now if your response does not attempt to respond to this bullshit in the context of how it is asked you can expect one of the biggest humilliations of your life RKd.

Ashleigh R