and thetans are NOT credible.

Do all these souls have a consciousness too?

WHO AM I ??? The basis of the Science of Identity seems to become more of a valid question than ever - it is a shame that asking Siddha though only serves to compound the original question.

What a shame that the limits of enquiry for most devotees I met in Queensland was whether they can have decaff :lol:

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cultreporter

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just-googling
Another mind boggler is this - the billions and billions of cells within your body are ALL spirit souls also! The numbers are staggering!!!

I have never heard this before. So we are NOT spirit soul but actually billions of spirit souls?? :shock:

The way I understand it is this: Yes, of course We are also a single spirit soul, but our bodies are made up of billions of cells and each one of these is also a spirit soul too! The bacteria and the amoebae as well... but I think the cell is the smallest living being.... yes it definitely starts to get INcredible at this point! And don't forget - each one of those cells has to transmigrate into higher life forms until eventually each one will ascend to the human form of life - now work out the math for that! :!: :!:

:!:

Even when Chris is absent there is enough people in SOI following his example to make it a bad place to be.

I kidded myself that it was wrong of me to judge anyone else's behaviour, that just like JG says no one is perfect, and it is offensive to find fault with others and will damage your spiritual life.

I have been wondering a lot what role if any he gives to his disciples? I always thought that being a disciple was to help others, because the spiritual master can't be everywhere, but it seems to be a position to just to be able to serve JG more. The disciples I associated with certainly garnered a lot of respect and subservience, but I wouldn't say they had any serious interest in helping people. Judging people yes. Leading gossip definitely. Deciding who was and who wasn't 'serious enough'.

I wonder if JG knows or even cares what is done by some of those who base their lives on his philosophy.

Just a few of the things I saw in my time there :

:arrow: Abusing women. Controlling wives and girlfriends, domestic violence, emotional abuse, treating women (behind their backs of course) like pieces of meat - actually being vegetarians I would have to say they have more respect for pieces of meat.

:arrow: Constant lying about what ASM is and what it represents. The hypnotism, yeah I saw that many times but it didn't click with me. It was correct to suppose that those are classes only new people go to. Total censorship with access to JGs teachings.

:arrow: Trying to control and threatening ex-members. Just one example of this that springs to mind is a guy that was living on the Gold Coast who had a little previous involvement with SOI moved near a devotee and she constantly threatened and harassed him. Then she got other male devotees to threaten and harass him for her. Their attitude is like they own people and they don't have to live in the real world - where you can't just go and knock on someone's door and threaten to beat the crap out of them unless they move out of their own house.

:arrow: Having no respect for other people, just taking and taking whatever they can from them. It is cool, if people want to give something - but they just have no respect or consideration for others. It doesn't matter (I am not talking about myself here) how decent and kind hearted or sincerely seeking the truth a person is they just use them up and spit them out.

:arrow: Criminal activities. Going about getting guns, and quite a few of the male devotees are into using and/or selling drugs.

You can fall into thinking it's all cool we are not part of 'that world' we have a deeper knowledge, we know the real meaning of life and all that. That is what makes it easy to ignore the rampant homophobia and mysogny, even if you can't personally agree with it, because the disciples know what is best - they are close to JG, closer to the truth than me.

What RKd had to say was a perfect example of their mentality - you don't have a husband - Krishna has decided you are beneath us - Bah! Krishna with Radha showed the perfect example of love. None of the guys there have that sort of ardour or respect or affection for anyone but Siddha. Unmarried would be good karma I say.

When I was in SOI I watched a man take a chair at kirtan while his 9 month pregnant wife sat on the cement at his feet and then got up to fetch him his food, a drink of water etc. on command. I saw a disciple step in dog crap outside the centre and as if it was the most natural thing in the world wipe it off onto his wife's skirt - and she accepted it as if it was the most natural thing in the world! Actions like this don't even rate a second glance from most followers.

The place that they put women in is only decent and according to scripture if men are respectful in the relationship and responsible providers in the home. It is not respectful to enter into a relationship on any level with anyone that you consider to be a lesser human being than you and expect to treat like your servant.

BTW there are heaps of single women devotees there although they are not condemned - I guess that is why some of the men are having to double up on wives now? I wonder if Siddha is endorsing going back to the old Hindu ways and Wai Lana is just the 'head wife'??

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cultreporter
WHO AM I ??? The basis of the Science of Identity seems to become more of a valid question than ever - it is a shame that asking Siddha though only serves to compound the original question.

Christian religion had an overwhelming influence on my life. Like cult and I imagine many others the idea of a scientific based religion was more appealing, and I believed that it filled in the gaps that Christianity couldn't. Once you actually read Vedic scripture though :roll: the stupendous amount of it and the 'detail' that it goes into and yet it becomes more and more INcredible. A lot of the info like astrology which is a staple of vedic science - how the solar system is made up and the distance between planets etc. is just plain wrong. And there is very little scientific about saying that the Earth is on the back of a turtle :? Best to just get people meditating and slaving rather than reading that is for sure.

Back when it was written I am sure it made a lot of sense, just like Aboriginal people said that all the hills and valleys were caused by a big rainbow serpent slithering around or the lakes and rivers were caused a big frog that drank all the water and when the thirsty animals tickled him to make him laugh he burped it all up.

The comparison between Scientology and Science of Identity is very interesting to me. Both make 'scientific' claims that are unsubstantiated and loathe any scrutiny, both propose a simple solution and make BIG promises for those who are 'serious enough' and both were started by meglomaniacs who borrowed extensively from the work of others and declared that they alone were purveyors of the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. All cult leaders are like that I guess, but they usually exploit faith rather than science.

[www.secularhumanism.org]

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Prayer would be unnecessary if there were an all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful God. Let's suppose that the most gifted doctor in the world happens to be your friend. This doctor has the ability to cure any sickness known to modern medicine. Let's also suppose that this doctor is living with your family, which includes a six-month-old baby.

Now if this infant were to become violently ill in the presence of this super-doctor, what would you expect from him? If the baby is choking, for example, you would expect him to use techniques that will relieve the baby's problem. You would not expect him to ask you first if you believed that he could cure your child before he was willing to help the child. You would not expect him to require you to show how much faith you had in him before he would help your child. What you would expect is for this super-doctor to act as soon as he sees the child choking.

I have mentioned before that I pray quite profusely, it was a habit I picked up of rather indeterminent origin when I was a young child. In addition to the long list that I have, being a little superstitious about not wanting to miss anyone I have said the same prayer for myself 6000 times on a daily basis for the past 15 years, not one word has changed. It has not come true.

If Krishna answers prayers and prayers do not come true what is one suppossed to believe?

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cultreporter
If Krishna answers prayers and prayers do not come true, what is one suppossed to believe?

I have heard JG speak on this subject before - about how we should not see God as our "waiter" - give me this, give me that, and of course [b:91266dcbd0]condemning[/b:91266dcbd0] and [b:91266dcbd0]putting down[/b:91266dcbd0] the "so-called Christians" who pray "[i:91266dcbd0]Give us our daily bread." [/i:91266dcbd0]... And of course JG says that because their prayers go unanswered, therefore people become atheists...

I have often pondered this question, also, and I have even considered that what if one was praying for a [i:91266dcbd0]negative[/i:91266dcbd0] material desire (i.e. praying to God to remove one's uncontrollable sexual desires!) in order that one can "advance spiritually"... but of course these prayers go unanswered as well... (I can see why so many people become atheists!!!) :!:

And here's another theological mind-twister: :arrow: There is a song that goes something like: "If I ruled the world, every day would be the first day of Spring..." 8) Well this got me thinking that if I was, dare I say it, that [i:91266dcbd0]if I was God[/i:91266dcbd0], there would be NO suffering, :D NO wars, :D NO birth, NO death, everybody eating every other body, no sin, and indeed NO material world!!!! :? [u:91266dcbd0]YES! THERE! I SAID IT![/u:91266dcbd0] Because if God writes [u:91266dcbd0]ALL[/u:91266dcbd0] the rules, it is common logic to assume that these things could be achieved??? Or why even bother to "create" living beings who are capable of rebelling against Himself??? :? Dahhhh? [i:91266dcbd0]Ah, well, back to the drawing board... [/i:91266dcbd0]

I suppose the usual JG response would be something about [b:91266dcbd0]free will[/b:91266dcbd0], or that we cannot know these things with our present senses, etc. etc. etc... and that we should just surrender to him and that it is offensive to think like this, blah, blah blah?

:?: :roll:

RKd I thought you were going to set everything right? Is your philosophy not as solid as you thought? :P Perhaps we need the man himself up in here.

But he won't as Butt-ler lost all credibility if for no other reason than not surrendering to his own spiritual master since disciplic succession is his claim to the vyasasana. I bet he wishes he shaved his head now. He must have got the chills during withdrawalls. :wink:
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jograves
I have a few questions for RKD, since he talks with great authority and seems to think he has the answers:

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Toenails are maha prashadam - purifying. I have had the glory of eating them myself.

Someone tell me something; is this typical of most guru-run groups, this toenail eating thing? I've never heard of it before, from any religion, anywhere. The only thing similar that I ever saw was in an R. Crumb parody of Charlie Manson.

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Most people's brains need 'washing"

Now that's more typical. I've heard this from a lot of groups, some self-help groups, some motivational groups.

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The nature of surrender and accptance of a Spiritual Master is that one accepts that He is enlightened.
One should not engage in speculative reasoning. It will only confuse your already diseased mind

I guess you'd be recommending that we surrender to whichever self-proclaimed enlightened "guru" comes along first, since surrender is a necessity, and reasoning a no-no?

I do not know what other groups do. They do not have a bonafide spiritual master such as Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa so I have no interest in their practices.

You do not agree that one is better off to have a brain that is filled with God than thoughts of sex, empty material desires, delusions of movies, rock music, gossip, violence etc. It is the nature of this material world that one becomes contaminated. The process of Krishna Consciousness is about purifying. There is no other way than so called 'brain washing'.

One should surrender based on the three conditions dictated by the Scripture - the qualities of the Spiritual Master, the Lord in the Heart and the Scripture. By this way there is no mistake that can be made. A spiritual master supoorts what the Scripture says and Krishna in the heart makes the individual steady in their devotion.

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Oh yes indeedy one would certainly not have the time to tippy tap on the keyboard producing insight about SOI in between fretting over breaking a nail if she was chained to the kitchen sink with a baby under each arm and a cake in the oven.

In my case that should read "who [i:16e7fdc936]Radha[/i:16e7fdc936] Krishna [i:16e7fdc936]das[/i:16e7fdc936] has not given a husband to shouldn't it?

Maybe it should from your point of view, but this has already been explained to you, and in truth my directives come from Srila Prabhupad who is a direct link to God. Your 'beloved' can leave at any time that he wants. No person is restraining him. It was made clear to him when he made his intentions with you known that he can make this choice, but he will not be able to see his son for the sake of him being raised in Krishna Consciousness and setting a proper example. It was made clear to him that it is a sin to be divorced and to leave one's responsibilities. To end his idea of a relationship with you was the best thing for his spiritual life according to Srila Prabhupad - and he is a student of Srila Prabhupad.

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That is not I attacking your character. That is Krishna himself.

Well that is not what he told me.... :wink:

Yes but you don't see Krishna DO you? You see Nrsimha. That is not the same thing at all, and you know this.

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quote]It is unfortunate that you have amassed so much bad karma in your previous life and you seem determined to amass more in this.

I think that is just a tad ironic coming from a disciple and representative of Siddha whose house was paid for by a career as a butcher. Isn't killing cows the greatest offence to Krishna one can commit? You must have done a LOT of dancing to work that off and make it to disciple.

Yes it is extremely offensive to kill cows. This is the past and is not relevant to now when I am trying to devote my life to God and have surrendered to a bonafide Spiritual Master. I would like to know since you have a nice little following now when you are going to discuss your own character. I would enjoy doing it, but apparently it is 'flaming'. Does your audience and your "devotee" friends know that you are a mystic?

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emntk
"My baby is coughing... It's irrelevant... So why concern yourself with things that are not worthy to be concerned about?"

Err.. this was a lecture Siddha gave on the unimportance of anything except Guru and Krishna.

Yep, it's irrelevant if your baby is coughing... but if Chris is coughing, it is the end of the world .... the whole world is [b:0a2de089a1]CURSED![/b:0a2de089a1]

Where is this lecture? This is unsubstnatiated blasphemy. You cannot prove that this lecture exists can you? If you have a copy of such a lecture why don't you publish it on-line to PROVE that Srila Prabhupad is NOT a bonafide Spiritual Master - a pure devotee would never say such a thing!!