To anyone that might have read my last post, especially those who have come from where I have come from...

You ARE amazing, and I know this.

I love chillin' with you guys, and you know this.

You are all fucking perfect. you always have been and you always will be.
Nothing will ever change this, and we can go eternally any direction we choose.

I will run in to you all many more times in the raddest of circumstances.

I love you and I look forward to it.

"self and other/self" -Ra

I got a little bit of insight from the Gold Coast tribe yesterday which I thought considering how illumnating and eerily fascinating it is to see how the 'reasoning' of a dedicated cult member works that it would be of interest. If you recognise yourself here (and once again I have had solid confirmation that this thread is being watched by SOI) please refer to 10 signs of a destructive groups and 10 signs of a person in a destructve group on this site.

It is non religious and non sectarian, Rick Ross doesn't even have a data base entry for SOI and yet he manages to relate what it is like perfectly. Think about it.

You are not alone and with just a little knowledge you can't help but realise this and find the imperative to get out and have a life again.

The rationale at work in the mind of my beloved is as I mentioned eerily fascinating to say the least. He has certainly changed.

Now there it is not 'kirtans' but 'gatherings' and not a mention of 'chants' or 'chanting' I have never heard him say gathering ever - just like I have never heard him refer to the disciple Radha Krishna das as his 'brother in law' They were so distant that when I was there he had to call another disciple to get RKd's phone number and it was a big deal to call him up for guidance being that he is the closest to Siddha and all. Now the version of events is that he didn't call up and get told it was 'offensive' to be living with me - he simply had a chat with his brother in law about it. Silly me - if I hadn't been there it would all make perfect sense now. :roll:

He has absolutely no recollection of me telling him about what his son told me indicating that he had been abused or of many other things that happened. Infact he is sure that he always thoroughly hated me and my power of delusion is so overwhelming that it has even manifested itself into corroboration - in e-mails that I still have from 2 disciples, his own mother and the recollections of his sister that he spoke to about it on several occassions plus all the conversations that he had with me that he was in love with me. Not to mention that there is nothing accidental about taking out a joint tenancy on a house. No he does not want any of this contradictory information because he is already convinced that it does not exist. No he does not want to talk to the police about it or even get their contact details.

One of the incidents that I described in the police report has entirely changed - it was just a completely innocent thing that was thoroughly misunderstood that a two year old said that a disciple put their finger in hs bottom - so that must be why when he told me the first time he said that he wanted to drive right over there and inflict grevious bodily harm but when he was talked out of it by the disciple family Doyle and thus became convinced that it was just impossible for a disciple to do such a thing. That is why he wouldn't tell me what the disciples name was (you've got to protect the innocent) and why he made the decsion that his son was not allowed to go to their house anymore. It is all clear to me now :roll:

I have never heard him refer to the cult en masse as 'my friends' in 8 months that I lived with him and spent 24 hours a day with him there was only one occassion when he visited a friend outside kirtan and one where two visited him. He was the lonliest and saddest about it person that I have ever met. Where were these 'friends' in all that time and why oh why have they all suddenly rallied around him now??

He is convinced that I am the author of every single web reference to SOI and Siddha in a negative sense [i:71aea50b3d]and[/i:71aea50b3d] every single member of this forum. I am sure that rrmoderator would have something to say about that! No he is not going to sign up to the forum and post here to test that hypothesis or respond to the 'false' things that are being said. He is not going to consider that for this to be true my general knowledge would have to be astounding and my time unlimited without even consdering that I also live with a debilitating physical disability that creates chronic fatigue. I never realised just how amazing I was :shock:

None of the quote 'bullshit' bothers him he says at the same time as trying to convince his sister (who incidentally is my best friend who he has refused to talk to since she left SOI) to get me to stop talking about SOI. In his defence it has been 8 years since he went in, maybe he has forgotten that in the rest of the world one doesn't rely on directions from others to determine their actions or try to manipulate family relationships in order to maintain the common good of what is pleasing to Srila Prabhoofraud. No he won't talk to me about it, no he will not ask me directly not even by e-mail.

I really don't know how I can possibly make it any clearer, so I will try this.

For me to stop talking about SOI either I have to go back in or [b:71aea50b3d]Brendon Gavin Rice[/color:71aea50b3d][/b:71aea50b3d] has to come out - and I am [i:71aea50b3d]not[/i:71aea50b3d] going back in. When he reinstates his relationship with me and his sister and takes care of the interests of his son have your lawyer contact my lawyer (yeah I have a lawyer, bloggers cannot be too careful apparently 8) ) and I will make my silence official. Am I doing all this to get him back - [b:71aea50b3d][i:71aea50b3d]duh![/i:71aea50b3d][/b:71aea50b3d] If you can think of a better way to get someone out of a cult that has entirely brainwashed them and controls their every action then I would like to hear it. Of course I like helping people and I value the truth but not being a Vaishnava and all I can still be bought :twisted:

If the people in SOI want to continue to act with the interpersonal skills and intellect of common baboons then they can simply expect that I intend to become quite proficient in flinging poop also.

Hiding from his father :lol: I am imagining Papa Butler "So you're a direct link to God huh? Well that don't mean you can go about thinking that you're too big for a spanking :lol:

Maybe they wanted him to take the garbage out. But Daaaaaad! The neighbours might see and forget to worship me!!

That is one family album that certainly wouldn't be boring. Did Chris happen to have any brothers or sisters?

[b:01c6924767]Just Googling wrote :[/b:01c6924767]

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While J. Guru would often give lectures mentioning that the first commandment is to "Love God", he will never mention the 10th commandment: "[b:01c6924767]Thou shalt not covet they neighbour's wife[/b:01c6924767]"...

Now, if the word "covet" means to "desire" then I am just as guilty as the next guy and I have no right to criticize J. Guru for something that I am guilty of myself.... However, J. Guru did more than just covet his neighbor's wife - [b:01c6924767]he snatched her away from her family for himself[/b:01c6924767]!!!

:?: [b:01c6924767]Big Important Question...[/color:01c6924767][/b:01c6924767] :?:

[b:01c6924767]Was Siddha married in ISKCON??[/b:01c6924767][/color:01c6924767]

Siddha married Wai Lana in the early eighties right and I am told that at around about the same time Tusta also married a Chinese woman. Now in my recent post of the account of a disciple of ACB who knew Siddha towards the end it quotes ACB as saying Tusta could take back his wife if he went to the Bombay project. I am suppossing by that that either Tusta was married at this point and either reunited with the same wife quite a few years later (or just kept the union secret untl then) or took on a completely different wife? Many people married up quick in ISKCON back then. According to PADA the Prabhupad (ACB) Anti-Defamation Association which has expressed the opinion of Siddhasvarupa being a rogue disciple and "a bit of a nutcase" there was a scandal with his secretary while he was with ISKCON who he was eventually 'forced to marry'.

Of course I e-mailed PADA right away to seek any more information about this. I am not sure what their status as an organisation currently is or how long it may be to get a response - but is this the circumstances under which he married Wai Lana? Based on the story I was told by an ex-disciple who was there and what has been posted here I think not

:?: There might be some real dirt here.

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just-googling
That song that I mentioned previously is the "EVE OF DESTRUCTION" by Barry McGuire, from way back in the 1960s, when the threat of nuclear war was very prominent at that time... "You tell me over and over and over again that we're on the eve of destruction[/color:58900e7c20].... "

Oh I do know it, that is to say I have heard it - I only just turned 27, but am still a bit of a hippe@heart over and over and over again my friend, [b:58900e7c20]I just can't believe that[/b:58900e7c20] we're on the eve of destruction[/color:58900e7c20] Maybe they will play that at his disappearance instead of breaking out the kool-aid. :lol:

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just-googling
Thanks for posting some of the history of ACB and Siddha and their relationship all those years ago. As for ACB, I get the impression that he was riding high back in the 60's and 70's - making disciples and temples all over the world, while his sadhu godbrothers were "begging in the streets" to maintain their own temples... but then the tables turned when all the nefarious activities of ISKCON became widely publicized...

Meanwhile, Jagat Guru was a bit of a dark horse coming up on the inside track... until this forum got some of the truth out!
:D

The first clue I think that ol AC was up to something was the contradiction that the words of God are perfect and need no interpretation while he's writing those copious purports that quite often are even longer than the verse. If you want to start your own path [i:58900e7c20]and[/i:58900e7c20] copyright ancient scripture (ensuring that your organisation gets 100% of the profits) that is definitely the way to do it. I have an englsh copy of the Gita that is 50 years before ACB's yet there are still those that credit him with being the first to put it into english. The only thing that he did first was patent Krishna in the USofA - land of opportunity, swimming pools, movie stars (well quite a few musicians and notable folks anyway)

I mentioned that I was trying to piece together Siddha's associations in ISKCON and it would seem that he was in cahoots with Tamal Krishna das - the notrious no.1 suspect in the Guru Hoax and the alledged poisoning of ACB. (of course we will just have assume that Narasingha was on vacation while this was happening otherwise we would be faced with the prospect that ACB did not warrant protection as a devotee :shock: )

Tamal Krishna is accussed by the ISKCON apologists and reformists of trying to sabotage ISKCON because of dispute that he had with ACB and his own ambition. Apparently he was so displeasing that ACB tried to send him to China but he refused to go. Part of his sabotage was trying to sell the New Zealand temple. You will notice in the follwoing two letters regarding the sale that they are addressed to Tusta Krishna, Siddha's closest friend and longest serving follower. Tamal is mentioned by name in the second.

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My Dear Tusta Krsna Maharaja and Beharilal Das,

Please accept my blessings. News has come to me that you want to sell our temple to somebody else which I cannot believe. Even that you have been in charge of the New Zealand center, now you have taken it as your personal property and you have demanded from Madhudvisa Swami the price of the temple. This is all amazing to me. I do not know what is your decision. Tusta Krsna has already left and is in Hawaii with Siddha Svarupananda Maharaja.

I never believed that again you would go back to your old habits, giving up the Krsna Consciousness Movement in a whimsical way. Please do not do this mistake. It will be a great calamity for you. If you have any
misunderstanding with the GBC member, you should have let me know. But I do not think there can be any misunderstanding.

When I was last at the New Zealand temple, everything was so peaceful and hopeful. Now all of a sudden you have changed that program and taken to your original ways? I am so much aggrieved to receive all this news. For Krsna's sake, do not do these things.

I request Tusta Krsna to go back to New Zealand and take charge of your
duties, and when I shall go to Australia, I shall go to New Zealand and see
things personally.

Please do not leave Krsna. You will not be happy. That is my request.

I hope this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

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My Dear Madhudvisa Swami,

Please accept my blessings. With regards to your telegram to Tamala Krsna
Maharaja dated October 19, 1973 I may inform you that I have today sent the following cable to Tusta Krsna Maharaja.

``Tustakrsna 59215 Kenui Road Sunset beach Hawaii, USA

REFER MY LETTER DATED OCTOBER 15 CARE OF SUDAMA

COPY BEING SENT UNDER SEPARATE POST DO NOT SELL

NEW ZEALAND TEMPLE TO OTHERS IF YOU WANT MONEY

I SHALL PAY TO YOU REST ASSURED = BHAKTIVEDANTA

SWAMI''

I hope this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

I am not certain yet whether this letter refers to another temple being sold in Hawaii or to the first incident. I think it could be interpreted either way and I am still looking into it. As always any input would be fantastic.

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My dear Beharilal,

Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated November 8, 1973 just now received by me as it was redirected from India. I have not received any reply from Tusta Krsna Swami to my letters.

I do not know why he has left New Zealand. In Hawaii a great wrong doing has been done by Gaurasundara and Siddha-svarupa. They sold the temple and went away with all the money without taking any permission from me. It is a fall down on their parts. They have done the wrong thing.

Now Siddha had a long running feud with Tamal Krishna who is apparently responsible for running him out of ISKCON in 1977 according to PADA newletter archives, and he was threatened by a unnamed man who reportedly weighed 300 pounds and told Siddha he would 'break his neck' - again we will assume that Narasingha was on vacation shall we? :wink: Yet it would seem that they were close enough to be involved in dealings with the NZ temple together even if the dealing was done through Tusta.

According to my source, a former disciple who does not want to be named he believes that in the end Tusta and Siddha 'did the right thing' and gave the money back and ACB considered the matter resolved. Perhaps this is the foundation of the feud with Tamal, although there is quite a collection of accounts of many disciples taking issue with Siddhasvarupa and not wanting him in the temples. He was afterall more concerned with running his own following.

To add to the plot Siddha was offerred the position of new guru of Hawaii after ACB's disappearance when the ISKCON empire was divided up and Tamal was running the show then. The ISKCON GBC then went on to use Siddha's actions as prime justification for their own existence (as they still do to this day), which I have posted on previously. Apparently Siddha was among the first to speak out about the 11 successor gurus in his Haribol newletter in Hawaii 1978 (this is reported in PADA newsletter archive as well - I supposse it is possible that I could eventually obtain a copy of this, I will certainly be looking for one)

Certainly one could not wonder why anyone would leave ISKCON considering what was going on - but they could certainly wonder why they would stay as long as they did - particularly when they were none too keen on accepting the instructions of their spritual master and the reguations in the first instance. If Siddha truely was a brave hero speaking out in spite of threats against him and the pure devotee that he claims to be then where in the hell was he when all those children were being sexually abused??? There are no shortage of people to condemn the 11 now on this basis among others, but not one disciple that I have found out about yet bailed on ISKCON when this was happening eventhough it was pretty common knowledge and ACB instructed that it should be kept internal. In 1978 it the sexual abuse was yet to be the widely known scandal that it became later as the victims grew up to be able to speak about it and sxpose the abusers. Where were you then Siddha??? I reckon about where you are now while kids are being neglected and abused on the Gold Coast. There was no one acting to protect those kids. As a human being it is shameful and as a spritual authority down right hypocritical and demonic.

:twisted: Karmi Productions latest offerring :twisted:

Srila Prabhufraud Speaks Remix Vol. II

[www.youtube.com]

Hey, Cult, maybee Karmi productions would post Sheila Prabhoofraud speaks - remix #1, they seem to have good video quality, better than that ramayomama @$$ho!e.

Have a word, see what can be done.

Hey Reporter, regarding your question as to whether Siddha had any brothers or sisters. Yes, he has one brother - Bruce. Bruce would very rarely be seen at a kirtan or hanging around (probably just checking things out), but he never became a serious follower. I suppose he had seen a side of Chris that the new starry-eyed followers would never see!

As far as Tusta's marital history, it is a bit of a mystery to me as well. I had always presumed that he had gone straight from bramacari to sannyasi while he was originally a member of ISKCON... But from the words in one of ACB's letters, it seems as if he had been married originally while in ISKCON. So I am guessing that he went like this:

Bramacari :arrow: Householder :arrow: Sannyassi :arrow: back to householder.

Now the question arises is why did he not go back to the original wife and why did he take on a different wife (I am speculating a little here!)... And this is the Number 1 rule in SOI - you always have to marry another J. Guru robot... and Tusta being Robot Number 1, and being the good-looking charismatic dude that he was, he was able to find an exotic Oriental fembot from Taiwan!!!

The American followers certainly must have drawn the ire of the old Sadhus in India, as in India I imagine that the vows of sannyasi are taken very seriously - and that if you take a vow to remain celibate for the rest of your life and not associate with women - that it is a very serious thing and nobody, that's right nobody, should break these vows...

The whole sannyasi thing got very cheapened in the western world and SOI especially were very good at this... I suppose that in the old days in India, it was more or less an "all boys club" and women were not allowed to gatherings etc. And supposedly Krishna himself had made a rule that those without a penis cannot enter into the Kingdom of God - like animals, they had to wait to take birth as a human male before they had the opportunity to enter Krishna-loka!!!

As for the rumor about the secretary, my speculation here is that Siddha was dealing every day with his best secretary, P.dasi, and he did not feel comfortable dealing with women every day - so he became a "householder." (I don't know why he didn't appoint a male secretary and keep it an old boys club like they did in India, but the assumption was that the preaching program, TV project, etc, was more important than any old traditions from India?)

Somebody previously mentioned on this forum that it was a big mistake for ACB to make sannyassis out of young virile 20 year old boys... :oops: I think they made a good point here.

:D

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cultreporter
..... Apparently Siddha was among the first to speak out about the 11 successor gurus in his Haribol newletter in Hawaii 1978 (this is reported in PADA newsletter archive as well - I supposse it is possible that I could eventually obtain a copy of this, I will certainly be looking for one)

Gee willikers! - oh yeh, I remember the "Haribol Special" - It used to make me laugh - "[b:9e0c231735]TUSTA VERSUS PUSTA - SPY VS SPY[/color:9e0c231735][/b:9e0c231735]" :lol:

:D

[b:a3e9abd9dc]Just-Googling wrote[/b:a3e9abd9dc]

Quote

I suppose that in the old days in India, it was more or less an "all boys club" and women were not allowed to gatherings etc. And supposedly Krishna himself had made a rule that those without a penis cannot enter into the Kingdom of God - like animals, they had to wait to take birth as a human male before they had the opportunity to enter Krishna-loka!!!

I actually accepted this as being fact before I became involved in SOI. My undertanding based on the scripture, minus JG's slants and the purports (yes I have read them, but I don't regard them all that highly anymore) is that a woman in spiritual life will be given a husband by Krishna to become attatched to in a devotee relationship so that by this attatchment she will be re-incarnated as a man in the next life (all going well) and then able to attain to Krishna.

Like most of Prabhufraud's teachings the relationship between men and women is completely convuluted and cannot be accepted by those who have referred to scripture.

JG instructs his followers that affection and love are wrong. Illicit sex is against the 4 regulative principles, with JG interpreting this to be any sex that is not within marriage and for reproductive pruposes. Then we have this stupid situation of husbands and wives priding themselves on having seperate bedrooms while he's snuggled up next to Wai Lana and some that genuinely beat themselves up over the offence of being divorced while VD (and it looks even Siddha himself) have both lapsed on that. At the same time his disciples say that to have sex with one's husband, to please one's husband is devotional service.

Fact is illicit sex is actually non-married sex that could not result in the [i:a3e9abd9dc]possibility[/i:a3e9abd9dc] of a child being born ie - using contraception or..well I think we all know how babies are made. There is nothing whatsoever that advocates against emotional or physical affection.

JG is dismissive in his lectures of marriage and family being the natural desire of women - but just because one has that desire does not mean that they should follow it. At the same time he says that when we get an idea or a desire that is pleasing to Krishna we have that because Krishna gave it to us. I can agree with this, it seems perfectly logical - but how does wanting to marry a devotee and have a KC child fit the definition of a negative/non-Krishna given idea?

All followers of a householder guru - which is what JG is - should according to scripture be married themselves. As far as I have seen he does not have any single disciples, and I know of a few ambituous individuals that got married to make disciple (both romantic and spiritual :roll: )

It is not acceptable to follow a guru that one does not follow the example of, which is one of the fundamental principles of KC teaching by example.
One shudders to think how this could transfer to those who accept a child abuser and/or woman beater as their spiritual master.
As it says in Srimad Bhagavatam if one desires to be a householder they should accept a guru that is a householder, if one desires to be sanyassi they should accept a guru that is sanyassi. (If one desires to be a demon they should accept a guru that is a demon.) It all goes back to the 4 classes of men and people not wanting according to KC follow their position in life. In non-sectarian terms people over extending themselves due to spiritual ambition (which is actually an offence and a hinderance in itself) and all wanting to be a sanyassi or a pure devotee and get back to Krishna at the end of this life rather than just accepting his will. Once again doing exactly what JG mocks Chrisitians for and trying to bargain with God rather than just following the path that he puts in front of you.

Dear Haribols - the only place you are going to get is Siddha-loka where you have to work in a kitchen with a bag on your head and being chastised for all eternity surviving on a diet of toenails and footwater[/color:a3e9abd9dc]