Just sharing interesting info as I find them time to time.
I know many ex butler devotees in here think ACB was perfect. However he said a lot of very non sensical damaging things. This ex iskcon kid had the guts to say it as it is.
Sorry to the Faithful Bhaktivedanta Followers too. I am not here to please anybody or handle people with velvet gloves. I only expose the not so pretty truth.
Noone has to read my posts.
And sorry if I have offended many devotees in here.
Put the sentiments and brainwashing aside and accept that he was not perfect either.
The fanaticisim of the devotees goes so deep. They are so blind that they always try to tansmute crap into gold.
The truth is often very ugly. I have no time and no desire for diplomacy.
To be liked or understood. I know what happened to me and it is good enough.
This freedom comes from having lost it all and pass for a crazy, offensive, atheistic person.
Forgiveness, humility, lower than the straw on the street, put your head in the sand is all very sweet and spiritually rewarding.
Unfortunately we also need arrogant, non submissive people to wake the masses up while the bliss heads are too busy worshipping abusive gurus.
I can either be seen as a schizo demon or a person who is totally deprogrammed.
I am neither afraid to judge nor being judged.
I dream of the day that we finally understand what this whole complex reality is all about.
And why we have been sold so many lies.

Here is the video compilation of his lectures by Radhika Bianchi.

[m.youtube.com]

Radhika Bianchi is a brave person. She was born and raised in this crap and some of her older videos really capture the sheer lunacy of the swamis words and the complete fanaticism of his blind followers gobbling it all up like kids on Halloween. There is biting cynicism and sarcasm there that many take as "pride" or "envy". But when you listen to what she is saying and revealing, how can one not be sarcastic and cynical? It's almost as if you realize you have been living in some sort of nightmarish sick parody. You marvel and recoil at the thought that so much of your sanity was sacrificed in the fire of insanity—willingly. And you fully bought into it. I'm not talking about like catching yourself developing a bad habit or binge-watching some show here. You literally realize you spent many years of your life thinking this shit was 100% real, with not a moment of questioning if it was rational. It's literally like a drug addict who behaves in totally bizarre ways never once considering that it's totally outlandish until it's too late.

She took a lot of those videos down. One wonders what threats and vilification she received for saying the things she said. It's always funny how devotees feel the need to "protect" their gods and gurus. They are quick to call you "envious". Envious of what??? Envious of saying totally nonsensical things and fooling a bunch of gullible people?

Ironically, she herself did not seem to even be a direct victim of any abuse by the cult. This goes to show that one need not be a victim of any abuse to easily see how mickey mouse it all is. All that is required is to THINK IT THROUGH. Next time you go to a lecture or read a scriptural passage, as yourself the honest question: DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? IS THIS USEFuL TO MY DAILY LIFE IN ANY FUNCTIONAL WAY? WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON WHEN I AM PRACTICING SOME RITUAL, CHANTING A MANTRA OR READING SCRIPTURES? 90% of the time the answer is NOTHING. So why are you doing it? Is it out of fear? Out of a sense of guilt or some naive hope that something miraculous will happen? Did you ever really have some amazing experience or did you just fool yourself into thinking you did? Was any amazing experience you feel you had actually related to the mantra, guru or god? Or could such things happen for a variety of reasons that can be rationally explained (singing with people is pleasant, playing instruments is fun, eating good food with other people is enjoyable, discussing philosophy and listening to stories is pleasant... are people trying to convince you that you are somehow committing some offenses or not chanting the proper way or have displeased your gurudev? If so, call 1-800-IM-IN-A-CULT today!!!

Many others are waking up as well. They realize there are more rational ways to experience balance, happiness and contentment in life without cracking out on hare krishna dogma in a spiritually addicted haze.

One can say Radhika Bianchi made offenses and "fell down" or whatever. Here are the facts. She was raised in a devout devotee family (presumably a lot of good karma and sukriti there. LOL). She spent her childhood hearing, chanting, reading, praying, studying and following all the rules. She drew and painted devotional paintings, danced devotional dances and only really associated with other devotees. By all accounts, as "pure" and "fixed up" as one could ever hope for. What grand offenses could she have committed to realize that not only was krishna consciousness not for her, but the whole package was largely a load of hooey?

Something nagged at her. Something felt off in what was being preached to her, what she saw with her own 2 eyes and felt in her gut/intuition.

What possible, horrible, unknown "offense" could she have committed that any guru/god could not overlook/forgive? I know swamis and brahmins more "sinful" than that who seem to be doing just fine in their "krishna" consciousness. So what happened? Why did she "bloop"?

The answer is she did not "bloop" or succumb to some sort of "maya". She got lucky. Some part of her brain was either awakened or retained (retrained) or unaffected by the cult dynamics. She was able to start to actually think about what the hell she was a part of. And while it may have been totally fine for her to stay in the cult, she realized that there were deep implications in doing so. A cognitive dissonance she was unwilling to live with.

That's powerful and hopeful for those stuck in this mess. There is a life beyond this. And if you are lucky, maybe you will have parents or friends who stay in the cult who are not total nutjobs that will vilify and reject you. Doubtful, but possible. For many that is the hardest aspect of "leaving". They will have to give up many friendships and family. Years of relationships that were deep will dissolve or sour overnight. But rest assured, you will form many other meaningful ties outside the walls of this group. It may take time, but one thing is for sure: They will be relationships not based on total illusion and fantasy and riddled with self-depreciation, confusion and cognitive dissonance.

This is a classic case of cognitive dissonance: [www.cnn.com]

I did this too as a youth. I drank filthy ganga water at the risk f death and dysentery because I read in the scriptures that all my sins would wash away by doing so...

There are MANY people exactly like Radhika in Butler's cult and beyond, who are done and disillusioned with the cult, but stay around because of the more practical aspects: Family ties, friendships, employment, living situations, age, financial ties, businesses etc. And in reality majority of that type of "contact" can never be truly abandoned if you have built your entire life around this group. But you should be able to speak up. Even if it's only on here.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the video compilation of his lectures by
> Radhika Bianchi.
>
> [m.youtube.com]

Subjects are much more longer.

Each of the topics discussed requires much more explanation than just the abbreviated passages from A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. There is a question of audience knowledge and understanding from the point of view of psychology, systems analysis, and history.

I will comment:

1) Rape

Rape is not justified, it is not compatible with universal moral values. In contrast, perversion occurs in people's sexual behavior. No sexual arousal, burnout. People like variety. Sadomasochism from the Marquis de Sade or whatever it was for him. The stimulus is given by ideas which are then put into practice. In various pseudo-domination systems. One of the elements of prostitutes' offers is domination.

In turn, the mechanisms of the mind cause some form of rape to excite either party in the short term. Also the dominant side. There is a scene in the Polish movie "Popioly" / "The Ashes"

[en.wikipedia.org])

where the legendary beauty Pola Raksa plays a character who, after being raped, throws herself into the abyss. From the director's explanation of this scene, you can learn that his suggestion or expectation was for the actor to play a sensual / psychological conflict, where, having obtained denied or unwanted pleasure from rape she decides to choose suicide.

I also know the history oh one of the familiar wives who, bored with their sexual life with her spouse, cheating on him during an argument and a fight, felt an excitement towards her neglected husband.

2) Caring for women

Basically the social mechanisms are such that single women in certain social settings are victims of different behaviors. Disturbed self-esteem, low assessment of the environment, etc. In some more patriarchal cultures. But also in modern, corporate ones. I know stories from my friends where they told how in a corporation promotions were dependent on sexual relations with a group holding power. Trips were arranged, where the next victim received flowers and declarations of love during the game from one of the bosses at an alcohol company party. But it was just a game. In a hotel room, she was beaten, with bruises on her chest and her hair torn out. The whole situation and addictions made the corporate security services reluctant to take up the topic. And we are talking about a woman of recognized, outstanding intelligence, who was a well-known personality.

I also know the story of the rebellious wife of one of the devotee, who engaged in adultery breaking up or harming the welfare of at least three families. Of course, some psychology expert could explain in as a poor relation with mother.

3) Black race

The subject of the black race is long. For various reasons, there are wars in Africa and the economies are not as developed as in Europe. To a large extent, the cycle of seasons forced the inhabitants of a temperate climate to develop agriculture, housing, etc. In turn, the black continent was exploited by Europeans for many years, and colonies, for example, in the Congo, existed until 1960.

4) Dictator

Historical experience shows that an efficient ruler is more effective than the so-called democracy, an oligarchized state, etc. The oligarchs, having their own interests, succumbed to the influence of foreign states and magnates. In Polish history, the key words include liberum veto, i.e. the possibility of a complete disorganization of the parliament. Or "Swedish Deluge" where prince Boguslaw Radziwil, Swedish field marshal was considered a traitor and "Swedish Deluge" one of the greatest social and economic catastrophes in Poland. In turn, examples of great successes are, for example, the king of Poland, Stefan Batory, who was Hungarian. Or Jan III Sobieski, interestingly, surrendered initially to the protection of the King of Sweden. But ultimately he is known as the winner of the Battle of Vienna, where he himself lead the hussars charge and in 20 minutes of final strike destroyed the army of the Ottoman Empire.

Importantly, the victory was not used politically. So being an effective war leader does not mean perfecting in peacetime.

Another example is Marshal J. Pilsudski. Thanks to which Poland regained independence, and to whom the victory in the Battle of Warsaw (Miracle at Vistula) is credited with, that is, the defeat of the Red Army led by Marshal Tukhachevski. Poland was previously under three partitions - Prussian (German), Austrian and Russian.

On the other hand, during peace, the interwar period, that is before the Second World War, he was no longer able to control the situation of internal partyisation.

Another example is the leader and dictator Josip Broz Tito, the dictator of Yugoslavia who was able to cope with both in times of war and in peacetime. In occupied Yugoslavia, a mixture of South Slavic nations and religions (Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Islam) there were many factions and military groups, including the cruel Ustaše who defeated even the Nazis with their cruelty.

Josip Broz Tito, a Croat by his father, a Slovene by his mother, commanded an army of 800,000 at a critical moment. Thanks to this, most of Yugoslavia was liberated by its own inhabitants, and the Red Army of the USSR (Jozef Stalin, Iosif Vissarionovich Dzugashvili) had only a small share.Which made Yugoslavia much more independent of the USSR and Stalin than, for example, Poland or the GDR.

As a dictator, he ensured a long period of prosperity to the peoples of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia has never been very dominated by the USSR or by Western states.

After Tito's death and the collapse of the USSR, the countries of the former Yugoslavia, under the influence of many foreign agents and interests, plunged into chaos and fratricidal war.

5) Hitler and the Jews

This topic is also much longer. Hitler received power with the support of the Weimar Republic elite or representatives of big industry because of, among others, the threat from communism which spread in Europe and after 1917 the communists had full power in the USSR - the Bolsheviks got rid of the Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries. Hitler was also supported by, for example, Americans, for example H. Ford. The Third Reich received financial support until 1942.

When it comes to murdered Jews in Poland or in Europe, a large part of them was poor. As Polish archives show, rich Jews treated this poor with contempt and disgust, they were ashamed of them. And they, in turn, were strongly integrated with the Polish community, often having Polish features.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2021 05:56AM by DaWatcher.

Another interesting example of a dictator was Enver Hoxha. Albania's dictator.

Josip Broz Tito believed that Albania was too small a country to remain independent. Enver Hoxha, not wanting to succumb to Yugoslav domination, took - surprisingly - Joseph Stalin and the USSR as his patron. At one point, this arrangement became uncomfortable and there was an Albanian-Soviet split, and Enver Hoxha adopted People's China as his big brother. This political friendship also ended - the Albanian-Chinese split, where Enver Hoxha announced that the Chinese had betrayed the ideals of communism and that it only exists in Albania.

Importantly, Enver Hoxha is known to significantly improve the position of women in Albania, who, especially in Islamic environments, had a position not much better than that of pets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2021 06:35AM by DaWatcher.

A good film showing the realities of Africa is the cult "Black Hawk Down". The dictator Mohammad Farrah Aidid - Polish wiki describes him:

Quote

Somali military commander, often described as a chief general and diplomat and chairman of the United Somali Congress (USC), later chaired the Somali National Alliance (SNA). Along with other armed opposition groups, he led the regime of President Mohamed Siad Barre out of Mogadishu, the Somali capital, during the civil war that broke out in Somalia in the early 1990s.

Quote

In 1992, Aidid questioned the presence of the United Nations and the United States military in Somalia. He was one of the main targets of Operation Restore Hope ("The Hope Restored"). It was a joint humanitarian operation by the United Nations and the United States, which tried to break the military siege in the country. After the end of operations, forcing UN forces to leave the country in 1995, Aidid himself appointed himself president of Somalia for several months, until his death the following year, 1996.

Aidid was born in 1934 in Beledweyne, into the Somali Habar Gidir clan, part of the larger Hawiye group. He was educated in Rome and Moscow. He served in the Italian colonial police in 1950. He later joined the Somali National Army [1]. Improving his military skills, Aidid studied at the Frunze Military Academy in the former USSR , an elite institution reserved for the most qualified officers of the Warsaw Pact troops and their allies [2].

Quote

General Aidid's son, Hussein Mohamed Farrah, immigrated to the United States at the age of 17. During his 16-year stay in the country, he eventually became a citizen of the country and then a US Navy soldier who served in Somalia. Two days after his father's death, the National Somali Alliance declared Hussein as the new president, although he was not internationally recognized. [17]

Great post cold war politics, chaos, destruction, stealing support etc.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

DeWatcher—

Excuse my french, but what the fuck does any of this have to do with the swamis comments? there is no context for them, nor did he give any. His views on women and jews and blacks and rape/dictators/biology/cosmology/history have popped up numerous times with the same exact sentiment expressed. No context given besides his narrow, incorrect views on everything from cosmology to biology and history. In a naive attempt to play the part of "authority" he said some pretty outlandish, bluntly dumb stuff by even the standards of his day and time he lived. This forum is not about interesting dictators nor does it justify the swamis ignorant ideas/opinions.

Rape is wrong. Women don't like it. By definition. Consentual violent sexual play is not rape. Rape is rape and wrong and no one likes it. Maybe you like it. Maybe the swami likes it. He certainly had no issue raping his 12 year old wife. He even descrubes her crying and laughs about it with his male sanyasi disciples. I posted that some weeks back. Sick shit.

Women are not more or less intelligent by virtue of brain size. Zero science to back it up and many examples of women leadrs and thinkers.

Hitler was bad. Not "not so bad" or cool cause he read the gita and used a hindu swastika as his symbol. Jews died by the millions on his orders and under his rule. Poor and rich.

Dictatorships have no place in a modern society nor does casteism or varnashrama or any other archaic systems still causing upheaval in India till this very day.

Radical Islam, like Hare Krishna is a cult. That they treat their women like pets in radical, fanatical religious systems in other cults is neither here nor there in terms of this forum. All it proves is that it's a cult with damaging views like other cults.

A black person is no more meant to be kept as a slave or not allowed freedoms and rights than any other race. Stating as much, which the swami did, on many occasions, makes him a racist nut job. Especially considering he is preaching a philosophy of "you are not the body". That makes him a hypocrite. Just like his daily snuff tobacco use. Any woman, black person or Jewish person that follows him is willfully ignorant or plain stupid.

I'd say that Radhika sums things up pretty damn well and gets to the heart of the issues (and with wit!). These are not some off-color cultural glitches in the swamis upbringing. He chose to be ignorant about these things. It's not as if the information did not exist and if he did not have any knowledge about these things, the humble thing to do (since devotees are meant to be humble), is to admit they have no opinion on the matter. Just like Butler never once studies a word that Carl Sagan or any scientist said, but was quick to dismiss them as frauds and quote fake science and half-baked opinions while arrogantly smirking.

I'm tired of you confusing this thread with your apologetics masquerading as being anti this cult. You have some nerve to come here and write confusing, unrelated and misinformed words like the above. I mean, what the hell are you even writign about? Jewish people with strong polish features and bullshit stories about poor jews versus rich jews. Most rich jews escaped out of europe. Poland is a largely anti-semetic country. Your views on history are probably just as skewed as the swamis. One thing is for sure, the krishna faith, like many cults, is a breeding ground for conspiracy theorists.

You want to do system analysis? It's very simple. The hare krishna system does not work. It's guru's are fanatical, delusional, naive nutjobs who literally think they are going to become 12-year-old cowherd girls. Nothing to analyze, it's in their scriptures and the words of their teachers. If it's not what they really mean, they should not say it. Very simple.

Why even speak of ethics when gods like krishna suggest to arjuna to kidnap his sister Subhadra against her will? What type of barbaric culture takes a woman against her will to marry her? Do you see anything like this happening in modern times and is considered normal (and please don't tell me it's a "transcendental pastime" we cannot understand with our minds—because again, what is the point of even mentioning such stories if people cannot grasp them in any rational way)? Even older versions of Mahabharata describe Krishna and Balaram in incestuous relations with their sister Subhadra—and many other such tales. Brahma, the head of the Braham Gaudiya Sampradaya had several incestuous relations). Is there some deep system analysis required here to see that this is all a load of useless bullshit? That there is nothing spiritual or remotely noble about any of this? Does stealing clothes from bathing 12 year old girls so you can check out their breasts strike you as a great and noble example to humanity? Does Bhaktivinoda locking himself in a samadhi kutir and imagining that he is a little gopi girl strike you as some profound spiritual awakening? Are we meant to "system analyze" every verse in an already very long Vedic body of work before we get some clarity on what the fuck is exactly going on? I thought that vyasa was trying to make it simple for everyone in kali yuga. That is not simple. We should not have to system analysis thousands of verses to find "truth". Truth should be self-evident, make sense, be rational and simple. Not confusing, arduous and trite. Ask even a child if it is OK to steal clothing from people who are bathing and they will say no. As even a child can see how boring and unnatural it is for a parent to be sitting and chanting 16 rounds over and over.

Rational thought and science asks that we test, verify and build a sound theory or establish a law/fact. When that proves to be wrong, we reject it and move on. This is how knowledge works. This is how reliable systems are built and this is the dynamics that form ration thought. If the vedas say that even one time chanting the "holy name" will make you see god and become purified in your mind, yet after years of sincere chanting and crying like a child in prayer to Krishna you are still not seeing anything and feeling any real shift in consciousness, then the answer is that it is not working. Simple. If being a pure devotee and full of knowledge and bliss means you lock yourself in a tinfoil beach house or say that black people should be slaves and jews deserved to get killed and Hitler was not so bad, well, I am sorry to fucking say, something about the process is not working. At all.

Meanwhile, nutter Gab-bard: [twitter.com]

Her great service to the public is standing up for a gun-happy white boy who killed people and then went bar-hopping with white supremacists and throwing around white power signs for the camera. Great vaishnava hindu aloha-bot.

Butler's eternal talking head. Butler sits all day in his tin foil beach house and watched news channel after news channel while he channels krishna and snorts crushed tulsi leaves.

Butler LOVES news and baseball (he knows more names of baseball stars than characters in the scriptures he peddles). There is not a moment in his house where there is not some newspaper scattered on the floor, tables or a TV blaring a news channel in one room or another. If anyone touches his newspaper he gets rabid and fines people, makes them wear paper bags on their heads. Gods great representative on earth. Jagad Guru.

Meanwhile, his wife is down the block getting dolled up with 2 tons of makeup to make her latest and greatest horror movie, er, music video while feasting on cyanide cassava chips.

Followers swoon at the thought of these transcendental pastimes and nibble on toe-nail chips of gurudev! jai jai jai!

The fruit does not fall far from the tree. Butler and the ISKCON guru's are direct proof in the pudding of what their guru gave them. These men were closest and most intimate in association to their master. When the swami dies, he put them in charge. Butler broke off and slapped the "prabhupada" title on his already long name and claimed he was the real deal. This is the glories of dictatorship, which Prabhupada "preferred". The fallout? Countless confused followers, hurt children and borderline schizophrenics.

Enjoy your delusion and system analysis.

I'll be here running.

Thank you Run for making clear, that the Bhaktivedanta quotes from Radhikas video do not need any context to see that they are absolutely terrible. I was thinking the same when I read Watchers answer to it. I do not mean to gang up again DaWatcher here, but being in an ISCKON group as a child myself (for 2 years) i can only agree with Runs statement, that ISCKON is attracting many disturbed people and still today you can also see them all around the internet. Almost any video or post from other hindu groups or foundations that e.g. worhsip rather Shiva or are engaged into Monism - there is always a comment that talks down this particular school of thought or group in favour of ISKCON and Bhaktivedanta - and I think this says already a lot about the people who are in favour of ISCKON. And this is just a small example. During my time, everything else that is not ISCKON was slammed as being untruthful. Of course, anyone could claim now, that all religious groups also within hinduism are slamming against each other, but the quantity and the intensity of ISKCON followers is particularly extreme and obvious. So when I stumbled over the Butler group I was confronted with the same sort of arrogant, blind people who are not actually religious or really sincere whorshippers. They whorship themselves and their problems more than Krishna. This is what makes them so miserable inside of these groups. Before they entered the group they were "sooo misunderstood by others" and since they were kides they were "always lookig for the truth in life". And now they found this "wonderful group of people that finally shares their genius"..etc. So this attitudes, mixed with self-pity/inferiorness and then arrogance (to compensate) - this is what they worship, not God. And in these groups they find justification for their own misery and then they can be miserable together. And they never have to deal with their problems and traumas, by actually traumatising themelselves even more into "blindness". And if I think my misery is something "good" and it is "justified" i can believe any shit to keep this wheel rolling forever, because then i never have to look at myself actually. Sorry if I am hurting anyone now, but I think it is important to understand the psychology of those who are in these groups. It is remarkable, how antagonistic and at the same time overely frightened people are in ISCKON and SIF. Reasons for these behaviours are only and always personal. So who do I woship then? My own personal problems and reasons. I take them as an incentive to justify smth that feels rotten und fishy. They can never be divine. We do not need divinity if divinity is hatred and exclusion of others who do not want to join the choir of self-pitiness and self-destruction. It was bloody painful, and still is for me, to understand these meachnisms of "liying to yoursef" for your own "self-pity" that becomes the center of your "worship and your friendship with the group members"---! "Oh Krishna help me, I am so sinful, the other people are so bad to me, nobody understands that i just want to be with you." This is the monotheism of mental illness to me, i cannot see Kirshna here anywhere. And now I am catching myself anatgonising them! Yes, I can definitely see that. But at the moment, there is no other way for me to clear my message out here about what I witnessed and what I try to disown, actually. I can freely admit, that I am a mental one too. But a mental one who got bored of this whole charade.

AH yes before i forget: Another overcompensation mechanism from these groups is their bountifulness and their "love" and that they share everything and are communcative and nice. This whole show, many people do not look through, because also in our "atheist" world, everyone just plays a show to be nice. If I am a really nice person and I love others I do not have to make a show out of it and try to do door-to-door selling with my wonderful love Being stuck in this group, because the people are allegedly nice is a reason for many followers I have talked to.So again what are they worshipping actually? Is it Krishna, or the group? So many fake monotheisms.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2021 05:21AM by Frozen Nick91.

I ask myself a question.
Is there truly hope for people who have developped such faith than they are willing to ingest a guru’s toenails with a glass of water that was used to wash their feet?
Is this truly spiritual life?
What a very strange system of worship? I think the gods have a very good sense of humor.
But guess what? We can either play these stupid games in exchange for some bliss or refuse paying such high price to get rewarded by crack like high.
Lucidity is quite painful and bitter. Being brainwashed, gaslit, abused and used is not that sweet either.
But hey who cares? Self is crap, self is fallen, self is envious, self deserves a horrible karma from 100000000 lives we do not remember, self is not even deserving of holy toenails.
Self is just a sinful servant by nature who deserves even worse. A servant who has forgotten that there is only one number one.
And that the Lord and his guru(s) can do whatever the heck they want out of love for you.
Suffer abuse today so that you can enjoy eternal love and freedom. After your body perishes from cancer, autoimmune diseases caused by years of fear, guilt, suppressing emotional and spiritual abuse, lack of sleep...
Just chant and be happy and do not question anything. It is all normal. Just shut up and increase your rounds. Your mind is your worse ennemy sucker!
Cause if you do, you are a filthy atheist. Because how dare you go deeper and wonder what the actual F is this non sense?
Brahmans are constantly afraid of going to hell. Shamans visit hell every single day.
The veil of Maya is amazingly thick and ruthless. It is what keeps us enslaved.
Whoever enjoys their slavery more weakness to you my friend.
Keep your heads in the sand as long as needed. It is quite safe down there. Especially if it is Maha sand.
Hold on to every non sensical words that come out of guru’s mouth. Because there is also much wisdome that come out of scripture and guru’s mouth.
However we are not authorized to discern. To judge that guru is not perfect.
This is where you are at. I have been there and I understand.
There is truly one way to drink this coolaid and it is to never question.
And this is why they insist:
This is the absolute truth, do not look anywhere else, curiosity killed the cat..
But no bullets will stand in my way of exposing the non sensical sides of religions.
And I do highly appreciate the good sides of religions and gods of religions.
Just do not brainwash me into thinking that religions and the gods of religions have only created a POLARIZED material realm. That duality is only man’s.
They are in my eyes as polarized as this material world they rule over.
All I ask for is honesty. No more fooling the masses.
Keep your spiritual macular degeneration to yourselves my friends with all due respect.
“Abandon all varieties of religions and surrender onto me. I shall give you all protection”.
Yes. All protection except from criminal gurus who fine and abuse your devotees.
And who boldly declare that they are the 33rd Acarya descending directly from you.
That filth bag deserves worship. But I must be punished for trying to find a path that empowers me instead of taking spiritual abuse and bowing down till there is a hole in my pants.
You want me to unconditionally love such a partial being?
Ok. I will. Maybe after all, masochism is the only ticket out of the material realm and back to the big boss upstairs.
I will work really hard to find my fallen position beautiful and joyful.
The fact that I have no appreciation for all the misery and torture is because I am a demon.
I hope that god will have mercy upon my soul. To make me appreciate that it is an only once in a lifetime boon that I can come across such a pure medium as butler and his divine grace.
I may be sarcastic but unfortunately this is exactly how hard core devotees think.
Once again, sorry if my words are not like honey to your ears. My life ain’t so sweet either thanks to the wrath of the gods.
I am not here to distribute candies but truth as hard to swallow as straight oil of oregano on the tongue.
There are 2 ways to look at this mess:
Some call it spiritual life. I call it spiritual death.
The fact that I was semi happy in such conditions only tells me one thing. I must have been injected by Maya’s heroine. And hypnotized by the maha mantra.
Otherwise how the heck can anybody find pleasure in living in fear, guilt, self doubt, policing, lack of sleep, giving more than you can afford... is this heaven or hell?
It is the greatest lie ever told. Period.
This post is not me joining the conversation. It is to whom it may concern.
Maybe there are amazing, loving, no non sense bhakti gurus out there. Maybe I could have known a very necrtarian side of this path.
Unfortunately fate threw me in Iskcon’s offshoot crap hole.
If krishna is as merciful as he says he is, I am sure he will get it.
I feel closer to him now in my honsest disgust and disappointment than my illusory, forced unconditional acceptance.
If having butler as my guru is/was my karma, to holly hell with that karma and karmic contract.
I flush it down the toilet along with the ripped pages of his books, pictures and booklets.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DeWatcher—
>
> Excuse my french, but what the fuck does any of
> this have to do with the swamis comments? there is
> no context for them, nor did he give any. His
> views on women and jews and blacks and
> rape/dictators/biology/cosmology/history have
> popped up numerous times with the same exact
> sentiment expressed.

Everything. If you are a system analyst you can see it. Where Swami is inaccurate, abbreviated, where it is wrong or the information is incomplete. What is this girl's vision, also what is her psychological profile, etc. These examples also refute the "vision of an effective peace" proposed by Tulsi Gabbard and cult. When you know what system reductionisms are and where they include e.g. system trajectories etc ...

But of course you can't see it easily. At least similar - it has to be realized. Like a trained soldier, he knows the theory, but implements it in mortal danger. Training helps, but it is death that allows you to establish the right proportions, the value of tactics, etc.


No context given besides his
> narrow, incorrect views on everything from
> cosmology to biology and history. In a naive
> attempt to play the part of "authority" he said
> some pretty outlandish, bluntly dumb stuff by even
> the standards of his day and time he lived. This
> forum is not about interesting dictators nor does
> it justify the swamis ignorant ideas/opinions.

This is in the subject. If you don't like this version, it is a hostile motive and not an objective view.

>
> Rape is wrong. Women don't like it. By definition.
> Consentual violent sexual play is not rape. Rape
> is rape and wrong and no one likes it. Maybe you
> like it. Maybe the swami likes it. He certainly
> had no issue raping his 12 year old wife. He even
> descrubes her crying and laughs about it with his
> male sanyasi disciples. I posted that some weeks
> back. Sick shit.

Nowhere have I written that rape is ok or that women like it. I have described the mechanisms. Bizarre Mind Mechanisms. On the other hand, the fact of assigning me further shows that you are under the control of hostile motorists and therefore, just like the cult, you will also be willing to transfer it to someone who writes objectively. You easily fall into a simple trap. In a serious game, you'd be just a puppet.

>
> Women are not more or less intelligent by virtue
> of brain size. Zero science to back it up and many
> examples of women leadrs and thinkers.

I've already commented on it. Different brain structure, greater dominance of emotions, less tendency to take risks, etc. Which does not mean lack of intelligence, but has different priorities or bonds.


> Hitler was bad. Not "not so bad" or cool cause he
> read the gita and used a hindu swastika as his
> symbol. Jews died by the millions on his orders
> and under his rule. Poor and rich.

Did i write he was good?


> Dictatorships have no place in a modern society
> nor does casteism or varnashrama or any other
> archaic systems still causing upheaval in India
> till this very day.

Maybe yes maybe no. It is Israel that has ruled out 65 countries to which it can sell the Pegasus system. Due to overly autocratic political systems. Where is the line between autocratism and dictatorship - fluid as always.

>
> Radical Islam, like Hare Krishna is a cult. That
> they treat their women like pets in radical,
> fanatical religious systems in other cults is
> neither here nor there in terms of this forum. All
> it proves is that it's a cult with damaging views
> like other cults.

If they treat women like pets there are fanatics. But keeping to the facts of, for example, the cult in Poland, most of the leaders were women and you could see the prejudiced treatment of men. There was a suspicion that they might be hidden lesbians. In some cases, we know the answer ...

>
> A black person is no more meant to be kept as a
> slave or not allowed freedoms and rights than any
> other race. Stating as much, which the swami did,
> on many occasions, makes him a racist nut job.
> Especially considering he is preaching a
> philosophy of "you are not the body". That makes
> him a hypocrite. Just like his daily snuff tobacco
> use. Any woman, black person or Jewish person that
> follows him is willfully ignorant or plain stupid.

Quote

The statement is controversial. But the white race has stood out in these 2 millennia with nothing good. Take, for example, the spectacular slaughter performed by Hernan Cortes in the hospitality of Montezuma II:

The advantage of the Indians was 10,000 to 1, but many refused to fight Cortés because of the brutal human sacrifice carried out by the Aztecs. Some Indians who hated the Aztecs joined the newcomers for a chance to retaliate [2] [3]. After a few months, he made an alliance with the local tribes of Tlaxcala, Huejotzincan and others.

Cortés took the capital of the Aztecs - Tenochtitlan without a fight (November 18, 1519) [4], crowds of Indians watched it, the most honorable inhabitants welcomed the conquerors, Montezuma II himself greeted Cortés. The Spaniards were accommodated in the Axayacatla Palace, opposite the temple in honor of Huitzilopochtli. On the other side of the palace there were animals, which were thrown at the bodies of people sacrificed, and moreover, streams of blood ran down the steps of the temple, all this terrified the Spaniards [5].

On Sunday, November 13, after mass, they decided to climb the temples, saw statues of Aztec gods who were sacrificed thousands of lives [6]. Two days later, Cortés decided that Moctezuma should be arrested as a hostage, as he feared they would be killed by the Aztecs. Nonetheless, human sacrifice continued until January 1520, when the Aztec king agreed to set up an altar, a cross, and an image of the Virgin Mary inside the temple. In response, the priests threatened war if they were not allowed to sacrifice humans and the symbols of Christianity were not removed. Despite this, no human sacrifice was made for the next three months [3].

Things were tense in the city, however, which was in part due to Cortés's absence. More Spanish troops landed, and their commander Narvaez was to take over the position of Hernan temporarily. Soon afterwards, Cortez's deputy, Pedro Albarado, slaughtered several hundred Indians when he learned of the alleged planning of an attack on the Spaniards [3]

>
> I'd say that Radhika sums things up pretty damn
> well and gets to the heart of the issues (and with
> wit!).

She was naive in the cult, she is still naive. It scores well on controversial points, but there is no explanation.


> These are not some off-color cultural
> glitches in the swamis upbringing. He chose to be
> ignorant about these things. It's not as if the
> information did not exist and if he did not have
> any knowledge about these things, the humble thing
> to do (since devotees are meant to be humble), is
> to admit they have no opinion on the matter. Just
> like Butler never once studies a word that Carl
> Sagan or any scientist said, but was quick to
> dismiss them as frauds and quote fake science and
> half-baked opinions while arrogantly smirking.
>
> I'm tired of you confusing this thread with your
> apologetics masquerading as being anti this cult.



> You have some nerve to come here and write
> confusing, unrelated and misinformed words like
> the above. I mean, what the hell are you even
> writign about? Jewish people with strong polish
> features and bullshit stories about poor jews
> versus rich jews. Most rich jews escaped out of
> europe. Poland is a largely anti-semetic country.

Oops. That's propaganda. Why did they read Gazeta Wyborcza, once the greatest daily. After all, the editors are mostly Jews.

You are offensive against Poles who are leaders on the list of "Righteous Among the Nations". During World War II, many of them paid their lives for hiding their Jewish friends. There is indeed a present reluctance, but it just so happens that the apparatus of the Stalinist security service was, unfortunately, statistically dominated by Jews ...

Since you insult Poles, your seeing is not worth shit. Sorry to say.This is the propaganda of the hypocritical circles of the "Holocaust Industry" who, instead of taking care of their poor Jewish brothers in Israel, are trying hard to spread their lies to extort their property from which a poor 5% goes to poor Jews. Only they cannot cope with the fact that the victims of hilterism in Poland were 3 million Polish citizens - Poles and 3 million Polish citizens - Jews ...

My grandmother was a soldier. At the age of seventeen, she fought in the Warsaw Uprising - the Second Uprising. Earlier there was the uprising of Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. Her Jewish friends were murdered. After the war, the family had so much respect for their absent neighbors that they would not dare to live in their abandoned apartments. She lived humbly, went to Church weekly, and confessed weekly. She cut food scraps into millimeter-sized pieces for animals.

Hence, I say to the swamis from America or other American authorities - you NOTHING to give. NOTHING.


> Why even speak of ethics when gods like krishna
> suggest to arjuna to kidnap his sister Subhadra
> against her will? What type of barbaric culture
> takes a woman against her will to marry her? Do
> you see anything like this happening in modern
> times and is considered normal (and please don't
> tell me it's a "transcendental pastime" we cannot
> understand with our minds—because again, what is
> the point of even mentioning such stories if
> people cannot grasp them in any rational way)?

Acutally visiting some Sanyasis saw 6 different forms of Krishna. Which Krishna is which? Krishna is God or is He not? I have not seen with my own eyes, I have no confirmation, I do not know.

So I won't answer these hostile questions because I don't know :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2021 10:21PM by DaWatcher.

Frozen Nick91 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you Run for making clear, that the
> Bhaktivedanta quotes from Radhikas video do not
> need any context to see that they are absolutely
> terrible. I was thinking the same when I read
> Watchers answer to it. I do not mean to gang up
> again DaWatcher here, but being in an ISCKON group
> as a child myself (for 2 years) i can only agree
> with Runs statement, that ISCKON is attracting
> many disturbed people and still today you can also
> see them all around the internet.

Generally, SIF Poland was dominated by the hostile narrative of the leaders in relation to ISCKON. Meanwhile, in Poland it had its stages of development. Transformation. One of the leaders in the 1970s was forced by the Security Service to emigrate. He was arrested, books were taken from him, incense, etc.

When it comes to SIF Poland, women dominated. There was Tapasya das and Vishnu das, charismatic leaders and a circle of female adoration.

I am going to quote here again the story of how a woman from ISKCON came to one of the centers in Poland, mentally broken down because her guru forced her to have sex. In SiF Polska, she did not receive any help - eg filing a notification of a crime, etc. She came, went, chose ISKCON herself for her fault.

End of the story.