Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 27, 2021 02:11AM

Today I am taking my daughter to a Hare Krishna temple. I want to show her what I grew up believing. She is going to shit her pants and either laugh at me or feel sorry for me or wonder why the hell I did that. I am going to have to tell her that this is what my mother wanted for me and I had little to no choice in the matter. And that this led to years of feeling isolated, not seeing my father or any old friends and family, jumping from one ashram, guru and group to another and finally taking very small but intentional steps to free my thinking, and associations from this cult. She is going to ask me why there is people dressing up big barbie dolls and bowing to a plastic statue of an old man. I will tell her that that old man wrote many storybooks and one such story is of god stealing clothes from girls her age so that he can check them out naked. and that this was not enough and this same god married 16108 wives and this still was not enough so he cheated on them with, among many others, his Aunt, Radharani. And then I will hold my daughter's sweet little face in my hand and tell her: RUN!!!!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 27, 2021 02:12AM

“I think ideology is toxic, all ideology. It’s not that there are good ones and bad ones.
All ideology is toxic, because ideology is a kind of insult to the gift of human free thinking.”

– Terence McKenna

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 27, 2021 02:53AM

> DeWatcher,
> The only propaganda happening here is you
> repeatedly coming here and deflecting, distracting
> and vouching support for this destructive cult and
> ones like it (i.e. other gaudiya vaishnava groups
> that share the same basic ideology).

That words make you a false liar. Where the cult or members have broken the law - they must go to jail. You're a liar. You are swimming false. What I'm not doing is totally condemning philosophy. I don't throw people into one bag.

Where worship has destroyed life - there should be punishment. Where he continues to recruit for funding and engaging in unpaid and no-nonsense work - this must be stopped.

But no - I am not going to question philosophy as a whole. There are inconsistencies, leaders have failed. But why should we challenge religion because of the behavior of members or leaders? The same as, for example, Christianity after, for example, the Inquisition burned at the stake 20 thousand. Jews and 110,000 she sent to the galleys. Of course, it has its drawbacks. Categorizing as candala etc. May be offensive etc.

If someone voluntarily accepts it, his choice. if leaders use manipulative techniques and destroy members, it is a crime.

You are an angry lier and a slanderer. Which I don't really care.
You are not much different from cultists. Dichotomous perception. Blind Believer - Strongly Rejecting. Dichotomies.

Sorry to say. No more to say. Or a little.

> It's incredibly hard to shed something that you
> were born into or began at a very young age. That
> is why folks like Gaura Rader, Rama and Radhika
> and MANY MANY others are an inspiration to me
> personally. They did it. Some less successfully
> than others, but they looked this bullshit in the
> eye and said: THIS IS LIE. I HAVE BEEN LIED TO. I
> Running helped a lot.

At age 10 i realized word is a place of misery and death gives life no more meaning than compassion. Buddhist perception from a child brought up in Catholicism. I found myself in cult AFTER I DECIDED to give up worldly ambitions. I have tried, I have had a traumatic experience, and I go on.

No more to say. Farewell on the Eternal Path.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 27, 2021 06:50AM

For - Run Forest Run- Truth Wins & Frozen Nick
BRAVO, Gentlemen !!!

And this:

"and this is my fear and what I suspect, they are literally being dictated to by their guru who believes that the same rules of life apply now as they did in 1200 BC. Not everything can be fixed with an aloha, namaste or a haribol. Sometimes stupid, is as stupid does." RFR

And ALL these cult bots be stupid for long long time...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 28, 2021 02:19AM

Oh man, Vox, this is a full time job sometimes fighting the random, out-of-left-field comments on here...

There are countless pages of many Puranas dedicated to discussing the low nature of women and praising them in another (most if not all caste-related injunctions). These types of verses lead to cognitive dissonance. A body of scriptures that says one thing here and another there is simply revealing that it is composed by many divergent authors. Not one. Unless that person is schizophrenic or has multiple personality disorder.

The various sampradayas focus on assorted scriptures they deem to support their views. This is called confirmation bias. And if the support does not exist, then they create one by "discovering" some hidden pages in some obscure temple.

Take the Tulasi plant. The plant, a type of mint, is considered "sacred". In India, the plant is historically used to keep bugs out of grain stores. Is it any wonder it became such a "sacred" plant to them? It was valuable and helped them.

Same for the cow. The cow was a valuable commodity in agrarian societies. As time went on such animals in Inida took on mythical proportions in lore. Just as in ancient cave paintings we find many images of animals that were important to the survival of those people.

I am not against any group or sampradaya. I am against willful ignorance. That once one has been show that some philosophy or ideology or ritual is flawed or based on a silly and weak rhetoric, then you abandon it or in the least admit its place in history and acknowledge it holds no innate value on its own in contemporary society. When a child wearing neck beads has to explain to "karmi" friends that a random mint plant is sacred to them because god randomly likes that plant or animal more than others, it sounds ass-backward. It makes a person look like a fool no matter what other things they may say that sound interesting or intelligent.

When a devotee wears a sikha and can barely provide a single rational verse in support of such an illogical hairstyle, and simply say that their guru wants them to do it, it sounds like you're a mindless automaton just following orders but yet you want others to listen to you about what life is really about?

Take this verse from the Garuda Purana, a Vaishnava text. Garuda stambas are in most ISKCON temples and butler devotees love a good Garuda story and tattoo. So the bird must be pretty important to them:

Hari Said:

If a woman has brown hairs curling upwards over her body, she is destined to become a slave even if she is born a princess.

(an auspicious women's) Vagina shall be broad like a leaf of a Atvattha tree, the navel deep and curling to the right, three curls of hair curling to the right, breast free from hair...

Anyway, you get the idea. And this is just a small sampling of such texts. Butler has barely read the entire Bhagavad Gita let alone the "Veda", so how is he an authority on the veda? Bhaktivedanta translated a handful of Puranas and Chaitanya Charitamrita. Yet they claim allegiance in the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. What that essentially means is that they have picked and chosen what made sense to them and pieced together a philosophy and spiritual system that supports their specific claims and ideology. Nothing wrong with that. Until it affects people negatively. And when it does, and people start to point it out and all you can do is justify it by making roundabout excuses reaching and making mental leaps that are the equivalent of a Cirque de sole performance to justify it all, it's pretty scary to witness that level of fanaticism and fundamentalism.

I applaud the devotees well versed in their scriptures, but if you listen to what they are quoting with a critical mind and keep asking questions: Who wrote this text? Why does this text say this in one place and another in another place? Why do the guru's in your own line diverge in how they interpret seemingly straightforward ideas about jiva tattva and guru tattva? Why are so many scriptural stories so over-the-top and fantastical to the point of being cheesy or breaking fundamental laws of physics for seemingly no reason other than to put on a show? You quickly see that all they can do is hide behind the wall of silence or plead the "prabhpada said" rebuttal.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 28, 2021 04:27PM

The greatest achievement in world cinematography: Hellraiser.


Much better than Dawn Till Dusk from Tarantino and Clooney. You know whose spiritual and sanctified daughters had a relationship with the Tarantino ...

So be it...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: November 28, 2021 10:55PM

I know that it is really tough to swallow red pills because going down the rabbit hole, connecting dots, critical thinking are very “life” shattering.
The pull of the krishna consciousness is the strongest I have ever experienced and I get it why some cannot let go.
As I have been living in a very hellish (by design) life since I left, there are days I still think of the good times, inner satisfaction, happiness I felt from my sevice.
I miss the security of thinking that at the moment of death I will be greeted by the beautiful spiritual plane and see my gurudeva, all the devotees back there in Krishna loka.
As well as saving 100 generations before me by being faithful to Krishna.
I truly get why some put up with the fear, misery, control, fatigue... to stay.
Especially those such as myself who are single and do not have much comfort in the material realm.
Putting up with abuse in order to get security and some glimpses of peace and happiness is a betrayal of self and soul.
It seems as though we are forced to always sell our selfhood in this realm in order to suffer less. We are blackmailed both from above and below and kept quite small.
We have put up with nastiness and injustices because it is just the way it is.
God does whatever the heck he wants in all scriptures. And don’t you dare question the big guy cause his plan is perfect.
Suffer today so that you gain eternal life after.
I am tired of this BS. Tired of the lies and putting up with material as well as spiritual narcissism.
No amount of scriptual debate and being called an atheist can cancel all that I have experienced on a level that has shattered all my illusions.
I still in my heart try to convince myself that there is a greater plan that I cannot see. That there must be some justice somewhere.
I know from experience that everything in here is designed to switch off the critical thinking of humans.
We are constantly fragmented via trauma and drama.
The fact that we get traumatized in spiritual communities also, tells me that something is truly wrong.
Why is this realm so predatory and why is it so hard for the soul to discover who they truly are without buying a prefabricated program?
That tells me that the controllers of this reality we call gods, are not as benevolent as we think they are.
I do not waste my time reading 100000000 pages of scripture.
I know that there is a huge amount of truth in all of them. That they offer good guidleines and solid moral codes.
But blind faith does not satisfy me anymore.
I appreciate the honest relation I have with the only gods I have known in this lifetime. If there is a perfect loving source beyond the gods of religions, I do not know that force.
I do not need to be afraid of them and tell them exactly what I think of them. Even if it comes at a high price.
Being real, honest, solid from within does not make one popular.
It is a very lonely place where the gods do not like to reside because they know that I have seen their true faces and that I can no longer be fooled.
I have no issues with butler being half caring and half abusive. Pretty much like the masters he serves.
Let us openly admit that these gurus are only patially qualified to cure the mental hopsital patients. That they are not worthy of worship.
That they themselevs suffer from some issues and they are not divine incarnations.
Bhakti yoga is a very powerful bandaid. And an amazing spiritual drug.
However looking at iskcon and soi, it shows that it is a veey flawed system.
I would gladly try to forgive butler and his minions if they publicly admit what a bunch of posers, liars, misled sheep they are.
But this will never happen. So we do the job for them.
If this reality is an experiment, then next time around, they must do a better job with their religious systems.
Unless making souls suffer, be confused, used and abused is the purpose.
In that case please do not change anything.
Unconditional love, forgiveness are not easily achieved.
There is nothing romantic nor noble about forgiving ennemies. There is nothing heroic about accepting abuse because we are as low as the straw and others must urinate on us.
The healing only begins when we no longer feel deserving of such abuse. That we no longer allow others to abuse and lord over us.
We should neither carry the cross for others nor put the cross other people’s backs.
It is time to let go of that BS programming and spiritual bliss addiction.
Chris butler offers a fentanyl laced version of spiritual life.
He is a gangster and criminal who hides under the protection of Maya that has blinded devotees. He may do some good but he is no saint. He may have been given some little siddhis but he is not a demigod.
Maya does not blind you with pepper spray. She does it sweetly by making a narcissist pass for a modern Jesus.
Even if our efforts lead nowhere an evil seems to reign supreme , at least we are fighting a just cause.
Reality can be a nightmare but it is best to face a nightmare than to be a puppet in the westworld dream of a crazy guru.
No need to read and quote 10000000000 pages of scripture.
As long as one is forced to fear god (whoever that entity is) it is messed up.
You can call that fear spiritual fear to beautify it. Nothing justifies this distortion.
Better die fearlessly than to live like a coward.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: November 29, 2021 03:14AM

Run Forest Run, I have not read the comments in here for a while.
I just saw what you wrote about taking your daughter to the ashram.
I had no idea you were dragged into this by your mother. I felt as though you entered the butler group as an adult as I did.
I truly find it mind blowing how Krishna can get away with everything he does and make us beleive that whatever he does is pure, but for us it is perverted.
I truly feel very sad for how the truth is hidden from us.
Those who let go of religion, tur to extraterrestrial wisdome.
Some people charge 600 dollars for a one hour channeled session.
I try to respect the beliefs of others and their quest to find the truth and seek solace and shelter.
I myself found great purpose in my years of chanting. It was part of my journey.
However making the seekers suffer, use and abuse them is not something that I lightly accept.
There is nothing wrong in extracting the best of each philosphy (religion) and build our own path.
The essence of bhakti yoga is good. Having a kind heart, treating others nicely, living a rather clean life...
I did not regress on that path. I did davance but the butler cult is making it into a sweatshop and control system.
I got damaged in some other ways.
I found a wailana cookbook in my boxes and it made me smile.
How others have slaved for free to make that book. Then she puts her picture on the cover and she pretends to cook in some pictures.
I sometimes feel sorry for all of them. But I know that they feel sorry for me.
It must be quite a trip to have thousands of people think you are the direct link between humans and god.
That by having them serve you, you are allowing them to get purified and that your abusive words is benefitting them.
He is imho also in a great illusion and I am almost convinced that he gets spiritual strength from his polluted service.
As we have been told in the vedas, many demons have attained powers through austerity.
I feel as though deities are non partial and they just reward anybody who relates to them.
This is why wailana and butler will always think that their abuse is mercy.
No matter how much they use others for free, they still get the bliss showers and krishna hugs plus devotee adoration.
How sweet to be able to get away with such crap. Both spiritually and materially.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 29, 2021 06:44AM

Truth wins Wrote:
> I know that it is really tough to swallow red
> pills because going down the rabbit hole,
> connecting dots, critical thinking are very “life”
> shattering.

It requires a lot of courage to jump out of a speeding train. But with each bad fruit - which for the serious observer does not come from a frivolous attitude towards the principles of religion but from the very principles of the cult rules - it becomes easier.

> I truly get why some put up with the fear, misery,
> control, fatigue... to stay.

Effects of persuasion, manipulation etc. Answers to fundamental safety needs - death insurance, simple answers to push the pushchair of your life. To the next garbage can.

> But blind faith does not satisfy me anymore.

Blind faith without philosophy is fanaticism:



Cenobites were once human, having transformed to their current state in their pursuit of gratification.[3] Cenobites are so removed from their former humanity and so dedicated to exploring physical experience that they no longer distinguish between pleasurable sensations and pain.

> I would gladly try to forgive butler and his
> minions if they publicly admit what a bunch of
> posers, liars, misled sheep they are.

When the construction and expansion of the sangha results from creation and persuasion, admitting takes its meaning from the basic tool ...

> Unconditional love, forgiveness are not easily
> achieved.

What is love and what is unconditional love in the material dimension - full of hard dependencies.
Interesting is the story of the king in Markandeya Purana, who committed many pious deeds, made mistakes and went to hell. His presence in hell made him succumb to sinners because of his piety. He decided to cede his merits towards the punishment of sinners. As far as I remember, the demigods and the yamaduts praised this act very much, saying that it showed even more his glory - however, in the scale of the universe, this act was of no great importance.

> Reality can be a nightmare but it is best to face
> a nightmare than to be a puppet in the westworld
> dream of a crazy guru.

That's the point. Face reality. Face Absoluth Truth whatever it is - in accordance with the sense of principles, values etc. Regardless of the cost. Difficult proposition.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 06:52AM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: December 02, 2021 01:10AM

An example of a complete non-realistic teachings (bull-shit) of the great but false pseudo guru Johnny Baldwin Midgett aka Balakhilya das, who in his lectures in Poland or in Ukraine, insistently argued that nowadays we have all the facilities to "please our senses". Midgett's pseudo guru, who lives in a hacienda in Hawaii and when there is no electricity and water, it is a tragedy that makes him a hero. A great false guru with his companionship who have been accused of financial scams in India, Indonesia and the Philippines.



He explains that while the scale of poverty in Poland was decreasing by 2018, it is not decreasing now, on the contrary. Last year, 1.6 million people lived in extreme poverty, now 400,000 more. Extreme poverty means living for around 600 zlotys a month, which is an average of 20 zlotys a day. However, after paying the fees, some people have no more than 4 zlotys per day for food. Apart from this group, which lives in existential threat, there is a group of as many as 15 million Polish women and Poles who live in poverty: they can afford to buy groceries, but very often they cannot afford new shoes or a jacket, buy new furniture or replace the washing machine, when tries to break down.

600 zlotys a month is 147,12 dollars a month.

Fuck you Midgett, deceitful trickster, false guru. Fuck Tibby.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2021 01:11AM by Culthusiast.

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