Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 24, 2021 08:52PM
I agree with most of your statements. I am only commenting on excerpts:
> I see on here many comments that devotees are kind
> or successful or do good welfare work etc etc.
> Yes, that's great and if that is what their
> Krishna consciousness helps them to be and they
> need it to be that way, by all means.
The narrative of success - material - then clashes with the teachings of Caitanya, especially the story of serving the brahmana, from whom Caitanya did not want a blessing with material benefits. The recruitment narrative at the beginning of SIF Poland, as I quoted one of the main leaders, was "And they buy themselves a flat in the best district of the city". This leader bought himself a house in the best district of the city. Today he is recruiting "to the Vikings".
Another aspect strictly in the context of SoI / SiF is that in fact some are "sucessful". Only there are those whose success is based on ordinary hard working sheep. A finger can show businesses that are not officially and formally owned by SIF, but whose origins were based on a free or underpaid work of dedicated devotees who saw their spiritual role in it. When the business was "commercialized" they asked for shares. The answer was "no". Although, for example, they put significant money into them. Back then, it was not the business bosses but the local "spiritual" leaders who fed them with the narrative that "they should not expect their money back". When you look closely and as described by the former member of SIF Poland on mantrujcie.pl, it turns out that an elite is being created again, "successful devotees" whose success, however, is based on cheaper, friendly or free work. However, when they are to spend money in their businesses, they often prefer to pay less - business contractors - than their friend devotees. Conversely, when they have to enter into a permanent deal with someone outside the cult, they are forced to pay them more than their devotee friends.
> The point is that every novel concept is simply a
> remix of a previous novel concept going back to
> the day some ape discovered how to control fire,
> harness the ability to make sounds, communicate in
> a language, create art, music and discover and
> convey concepts of what beauty is, what truth is,
> what meaning, purpose and life is about. And trust
> me, every culture, prehistoric and contemporary
> has played and toyed with these ideas endlessly to
> "remix" what they consider paramount and of utmost
Yes, but one can distinguish the depth of the observations formalized in a scientific or journalistic form.
The theory of guna's is important here in the context of cyclical phenomena, the development of which is not constant, there is stagnation and then the phenomenon of social degradation, the collapse of civilization, states and empires.
Thus, the equivalent of guna's theory are such identified phenomena as "social cycle", "Tytler cycle", "Glubb cycle". Or geopolitical phenomena like the "Thucydides trap", where the outgoing hegemon, seeing his rival's growth, decides to destroy him while he is stronger. which shows that there are phenomena where economic, scientific or military development is not infinite, does not saturate to equilibrium, but a zero-sum game is replaced by a negative-sum game - the destruction of players.
> Many devotees will often take to drugs and alcohol
> when they leave the cult or even remain in the
> cult as fringe devotees doing these things because
> lets face it, the practices/philosophy did not
> leave them any happier, blissful or content.
One of the phenomena which I experienced in the dualism of being a member of SiF Polska and practicing "bhakti-yoga" was at some point a gradual mental degradation. I did not spend time reading the scriptures, I took up practical classes. Supporting on a practical level. At one point I noticed that this seva turns me into a mental moron. My mind is retreating. Years later, reading the scriptures thoroughly healed my mind. It is worth mentioning that the narrative of the leaders at SIF was that in order to control the mind one has to read the scriptures. But it was a "technique" rather than a search for understanding or wisdom. Because recruitment, teaching, outreach was "topmost activity". But what to learn if you don't get smart ...
The second phenomenon that I noticed when I was single, single, i.e. not married, was that part of my personality had died. After leaving SIF or taking a long distance, I experienced a "resurrection" of a large part of my personality when I entered into a relationship. So much to discover the depth of your relationship. Of course, this did not solve the problems of the limitations of myself in terms of abilities or attractiveness, as well as of people with whom I had a close relationship, but I experienced an "inner resurrection". Which made me realize that the practice did not give depth to the personal relationship.
Or even understanding or recalling the nature of its complexity or properties.
> etc. In fact, we are even told such nonsense in
> the cult that when we are sincerely chanting "many
> impurities rise to the top of our consciousness".
This is another aspect that I will remind you - I mentioned. Referring to the Buddha's teachings, the Buddha spun the Dharma wheel 3 times. There are different teachings of the Buddha at different stages. It looks like the stages of development and going from ignorance to goodness and then enlightenment.
Now, if the naimittika dharma is directed or created by working with ignorant persons, it will bring bad results when applied to persons in passion or kindness. And as we know, we have confirmation that the origins of SoI in Hawaii after the departure of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was to focus our eyes on helping drug addicts. From SoI members' statements to the newspaper.
This hard tamas-oriented discipline would only bring devastation to the people in satva. And this observation was shared by various former members of SoI Polska who left for other sangas.
So the statement "chant more those are your many impurities" when confronted with the discipline for the ignorant is at least incomplete, if not false.
> These are the things I ponder when I look at it
> all and it gladdens me I no longer have to worry
> about it. Well, besides trying to convey it to all
> of you and ask, "is it not so?"
Yes. Freedom is actually like the Himalayan breeze.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2021 09:01PM by DaWatcher.