RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hypocrite Tusli Gab-Bard, devout follower and
> disciple of Siddhaswarupanada Paramahamsa, Jagad
> Guru, Chris Butler, is once agian caught in the
> politiclaly self-serving act of sporting a
> military uniform while complaining about
> self-serving politicians. This modern day Arjuna
> is complaining about wars and politicians, while
> sporting a military uniform and being a politician
> herself. Pretty much sums up her politacl career
> that Butler had all his followers bolster.
>
> [taskandpurpose.com]
>

A silent heroine of the invasion war or the occupation of Iraq. Weapons of mass destruction were not found. The world hegemon and de facto the financiers and the establishment sent soldiers to war because the financial system would collapse and the narrative was that the vile Saddam Hussein was very bad. Bringing democracy cost the lives of at least 1.6 million Iraqis. Only somehow there is no democracy there. And on top of that, it did not bring independence for the Kurds, one of the greatest nations without a state. They were just used.

Did Saint Tulsi Gabbard do at least one kirtan or round for 1.6 million dead Iraqis?

Politicians do shit, but the heroic myth of Tulsi Gabbard is that she was a brave performer of such a shit ...

> For a cult that claims it does not proselytize, is
> non-sectarian and all the other crap they peddle,
> they sure spend a lot of time and energy on
> proselytizing/preaching/outreach/initiation/endless
> mindless rules and regulations and any way
> possible to appeal to people.

Let's quote the saintly Balakhilya das, Johnny Baldwin Midget, aka Papa Smurf, Papa Dolphin or Grandpa Midgett:

"There aren't any new people!"


> So essentially Siddhanta Saraswati is criticizing
> something he boldly did himself (As did his
> successors: Countless maths, temples, centers—all
> organized churches of some type), but because it
> is not his religion (presumably he is being
> critical about Christianity, which, BTW, has
> "Living" teachers, like local priests and popes
> and so on, that bring the spiritual message to the
> masses—they just don't have an ideology built into
> their religion that asks us to surrender our self
> to such people) he seems to have some random
> problem with it when other people do it.

There is always a very high risk that an organization will turn into an exploitation tool, a convenience provider for priests, build a hierarchy of power, etc. Based on the gunas theory, in times where passion and ignorance prevail, the construction of hierarchical structures becomes natural.

Of course, it has its own faces and modifications.

In Poland, Visznu das, aka Vishnu from Lublin, Grand Vizir and Tapasya das had power. Women's circles of adoration arose around them. Once, while observing the behavior of Vishnu dasa, I looked at who pays more attention during the so-called quick lectures e.g. in the hallway. There were women there, there were guys. I watched to whom the Grand Vizier paid the most attention. Movement of the eyes, head, etc. For women.

In any case, they were the governors of the Guru, the local authority around which the next floors and levels were built. By contrast, the gender factor has crept in here - most of the leaders were women. A wheel of blind adoration has also developed around Tapasya das.

In next stages, where businesses took shape, a revolution ensued, and more power was given to the challenger, the aspiring leader. He got on to the council. Why? Because he had money ...

Money money money,
rajas honies
in your holy world...

The mechanism of exclusion is important and how easily it is broken, which confirms that passion plays a big role.

For example, cult business gets rid of collaborates. Cult forbids - according to the rules of the guru - cooperation with them. A hard rule - no contact with them and those who have contact with them. Better to do business with people outside, who eat meat etc.

Let's get rid of these people. But the areas that these people served are falling to us. The rule of thumb is to have nothing to do with them and all related.

But the financial aspect, the money, breaks this rule like a matchstick. They ask people who have contact with the disfellowshipped and previously cooperated. Or at least there was knowledge that they would do it.

So easily, rules are broken in the name of money. So "rajas" breaks quickly.

Next evidence, Sweeties. No change...

Darkest under the lantern. Someone is pulling the strings over and over. Let's mix fairy tales = "misra". This remix shows something:

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2021 08:03PM by Culthusiast.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
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> I'm suggesting that people use their critical
> thinking instead of just gobbling up the words of
> any number of these religious leaders as something
> absolute and holy and unquestionably right/true.

Christians may confront this with the words of Jesus:

Quote

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

[biblehub.com]

Culthusiast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> - What is your name?
> - Sir Workalot of Chantalot
> - What is your quest?
> - Seek what sells the best
> - What is your favourite color?
> - Green? No! Blue!- aaaaaaaaa

[www.youtube.com]

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm suggesting that people use their critical
> thinking instead of just gobbling up the words of
> any number of these religious leaders as something
> absolute and holy and unquestionably right/true.
> I'm asking people to actually read and try to
> honestly ask themselves if what they are reading
> and hearing is making any actual sense or if they
> are fooling themselves into rationalizing total
> nonsense. Which is dangerous on many levels.

In sharing this information, I am not attempting to "preach." My only object is to show what the Vaisnava acaryas actually taught. That is, they taught a non-sectarian spiritual philosophy, a form of Unitarian Universalism which came from India.

"The door leading to gradual elevation is firmly shut if people on any level of worship are ridiculed or condemned. Those who fall under the spell of dogmatism, and thereby become sectarian, lack the qualities of generosity and munificence. That is why they ridicule and condemn others who do not worship in the same way as they do. This is a great mistake on their part."

--Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura: Jaiva-Dharma, chapter 11

[www.bvmlu.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2021 05:39AM by The Whirlwind.

"We consider that it is essential to arouse [love] towards Bhagavan [God] by any means possible. The door leading to gradual elevation is firmly shut if people on any level of worship are ridiculed or condemned. Those who fall under the spell of dogmatism, and thereby become sectarian, lack the qualities of generosity and munificence. That is why they ridicule and condemn others who do not worship in the same way as they do. This is a great mistake on their part."

--Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura: Jaiva-Dharma, chapter 11

[bhaktivinoda.com]

There is room for various positions and opinions here.

But no personal attacks.

rrmoderator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is room for various positions and opinions
> here.
>
> But no personal attacks.

This is called the "Cult Education Forum." I am here to educate others about the cult (that is: ISKCON and its offshoots, such as Science of Identity Foundation) in as honest and unbiased a manner as possible. That's why I posted the quote from Bhaktivinoda Thakura (Prabhupada's guru's guru).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2021 09:05AM by The Whirlwind.

The entire post is an attack on the cult of Chris Butler. How is that not personal?

I'm asking what business and help, on this forum,is there to preach, literally copy and paste, ideology of this cult?

I've already refuted and exposed these types of quotes from the cult founders.

So I guess for future visitors who have become disillusioned with this cult we shall now Pepper proselytizing to add to the confusion.

Every time folks on here fight to wake people up, the fanatics roll in and distract, confuse and hinder progress.

Bhaktivinode, his son, prabhupada, butler--all of them condemned the worship style, religions and philosophy of other spiritual groups. That is a fact. No feel good quote changes that they are a cult that has ruined people's lives, confused, and is 100% a sect.

You do not even come here with sound personal arguments, just copy pasting quotes that distract and do not reflect thier ideology and dogma.

You were not even in this cult. So basically you are a disingenuous troll on here. That's all.

Ban me for it as you like, but that's a fact. You come here and troll other forums with zero actual personal experience with abuse by these Cults.

The few posters like Dudley and dewatcher were also distractions and had no real substantial comments that exposed the dynamics at work in such groups.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You were not even in this cult. So basically you
> are a disingenuous troll on here. That's all.
>
> Ban me for it as you like, but that's a fact. You
> come here and troll other forums with zero actual
> personal experience with abuse by these Cults.
>

My friend, you don't know that. You don't know me, and you cannot tell me what my experience is or is not. Yes, I am a former member of a high-control abusive group (or "cult") myself, though it was not religious in nature. However, that's a whole other story. Zero actual personal experience with mind control and group abuse? Bullspit. Untrue. I was not born and raised in a group, but I was "in a cult" too and I know what the hell I am talking about. No, I was not in SOIF and I never claimed to be. But so what? I am trying to contribute something of substance to the discussion here. Why can't we try to get along without the name-calling and insulting assumptions on your part?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2021 10:41AM by The Whirlwind.

Hi Whirlwind, I get that you have a mission of mocking against retired cult people who are atheistic or antagonistic.This is apparent from your posts in this forum and website in general. Nevertheless, a neutral approach towards a theology that most people here had experienced as traumatising and abusive is not quite helpful. It is too much of a hero mission, that backfires. We also need antagonism and bias to digest things and move on from them. And if this results into atheism or further spiritual seeking does not matter. Your Bhaktivedanta quote therefore seemes inappropriate. I dare to talk to you on that, since I am also not a SOIF surviver but have a dear friend in the cult. Still, I would not dare to put myself in the position here to preach neutrality, particularly if you have little insight about ISCKON and the spin offs. Most People who write in this forums are not done with overcoming their trauma. Some kind of out-of-context-neutrality, whatever the motivation behind that ist, ridicules the healing process people are going through here. This is not necessary the right forum for reconciliation of religious views or attitudes (atheistic vs. theistic etc.)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2021 09:47PM by Frozen Nick91.

Whirlwind,

Stop the ongoing arguing on this thread or you will be banned.

You are breaking the rules of this board by going on about your religious beliefs.

Cease these contentious posts now.