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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 16, 2021 08:43PM

DaWatcher wrote:

"... the power of ones faith, spirit or quality of character must be proved. Words are not enough."

It can be demonstrated by these actions too. Did or does Chris Butler do any of these small but important things?

* If you demand that people arrive in time, do YOU arrive on time?

If you are powerful demand punctuality and you keep people waiting, you are an asshole.

* Do you eat what you are given without yelling like a baby in shitty diapers?

* The bus is late but you don't yell at the driver.

* You leave the toilet clean after you use it so as not to disgust your coworkers and family.

* At Starbucks you order black coffee instead of the Frappuchino you really want because there's a long line behind you and you don't want to make them wait.

Do these things also shows good character -- we don't have to wait for Putin to invade to show our good character.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: November 17, 2021 08:32PM

Just passing by to say I am truly sick to my stomach to see butler in tusli.
I also wanted to share the full kitchen rules for all to see.
It has triggered me to the max.
Tulsi uses the same deceptions, charismatic and kind external shell. I do not doubt she is a good person. Just brainwashed since birth.
I tried to red pill some people about her being handled by butler and who he really is.
I was attacked in the same fanatic way the butler robots are ready to kill for him.
Hats off to this bastrad who has found a way to brainwash the masses through gabbard.
People think she is a hero. We all know that her entry in the army was all a chessgame move under the guidance of antichris(t) butler.
This filthy false prophet and his minions truly think they represent GOD?
How can they be comfortable with all the lies and gaslighting?
Just because they get some bliss in return, they think that krishna is giving them the green light to be so deceptive?
Is krishna that worship hungry that he closes his eyes to so much non sense in soi and iskcon?
Is spiritual life just bowing down 50 times a day, to offer food to some pictures, chant 12 or 20 rounds a day, sing, eat, dance and bliss out?
Where is the damn truthfulness. True spiritual strength?
Those who surrender their minds, will, life to a narcissist false prophet have no business pretending they are heroes like tulsi.
She comes on TV and talks about the Elite (aka cabal).
This stockholm syndrome hostage cares about oppression and freedom?
Ok! Who are the so called demigods who write this comic script from the unseen realms? Please show yourselves. I am sure they are having a good laugh.
Amazing how bliss, pleasing blue boy and fake guru has blinded these poor souls.
What a deep programming. What a mess. What a spiritual coma.
By the way this is the full kitchen rules list.

[mobile.twitter.com]

Do they still use imported Evian to cook the dishes of this criminal fake guru while some must eat rotten veggies?
Do they still fine 50 dollars for salty dishes?
Now I know where my donation money went. I want my money back! lol!
No! Just Nooooooooo!
This is pure madness. How can such things be allowed.
All those who allow this and find it normal are partners in spiritual crimes.
They should all be put on trial. Every single disciple who helps butler use and abuse the free slaves. I call them out one by one.
Shame on you! Shame on your spiritual names. You are parasites not devotees.
What do you get in return! Toe nails? Enjoy!
How is this devotional service?
To cook in fear of making a dish too salty for this psych ward patient and his plastic wife? 50 freaking dollars fine!
While some devotees barely make ends meet, they are still expected to donate money for this crap?
Money to help projects? What projects? You are paying for organic food and evian water fools!
I cry inside for those poor souls.
I hear there is a laundry list as long as this one. If anybody finds it, please share.
I am sorry for my righteous anger. I cannot stand to see how these false prophets can get away with so much abuse in the name of “god”.
This is not something I can easily digest even though I try to respect the journey of others.
Of anyone ever feels sorry for leaving, just pin that kirchen rules list on your wall and know you have escaped a prison and mental hospital.
Thank your lucky stars!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: November 17, 2021 11:33PM

Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 09, 2021 03:40AM

STANDING OVATION FOR YOUR EXCELLENT ESSAY!
SPOT ON!

The only thing I would add is that a good number of elite followers don't really believe in that humility tripe. They just play along with the game for other benefits. . . .

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 18, 2021 12:44AM

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> * At Starbucks you order black coffee instead of
> the Frappuchino you really want because there's a
> long line behind you and you don't want to make
> them wait.

Can You explain this?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 18, 2021 12:56AM

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> * Do you eat what you are given without yelling
> like a baby in shitty diapers?

A polish Sanyasi, a legend, disciple of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami he treated people differently. Since he has his own standards of operation and "purity" in the kitchen, he cooks meals himself for the guests when they participate in arati and celebrating prasadam with him. The one that SiF gave a place in the corridor during the retreat.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do they still fine 50 dollars for salty dishes?

The idea behind the $50 penalty is that the penalty will make this aspirant cook put his heart into cooking, learn to cook. And he must have a working tongue.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 18, 2021 02:56AM

DaWatcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> corboy Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > * At Starbucks you order black coffee instead
> of
> > the Frappuchino you really want because there's
> a
> > long line behind you and you don't want to make
> > them wait.
>
> Can You explain this?


It's called being human and having basic courtesy. Are you willing to sacrifice your own "wants", when necessary, to allow others to progress/move forward/get to where they are going/have access to what they need.

I think the point is that someone like Butler has lacked that from the get go. He basically did what he wanted with little consideration for anyone else.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 18, 2021 04:20AM

You can thank all the blue gods in the world that this nutso didn't get elected to anything:

[www.rebelnews.com]


This fanatical religious nut job thinks a 17 year old gun-happy kid is "just trying to defend his community" from "rioters".

Remember this. Bhaktivedanta swami envisioned a world where if people did not accept his Krishna god they should be shot: [prabhupadasaid.com]

That coupled with the Gita's bold message to Arjuna about doing his "duty" and killing out his kin, you get the picture. Butler's group and ISKCON are full of violence and hatred. The record speaks for itself. The proof is in the pudding. Spanning the gamut of physical to psychological abuse and everything in between.

Many Butler youth own guns and even show themselves on social media proudly holding them and shooting them. Rama posted about this years ago. Tusli has always been quite eager to join the army to shoot muslims and vouch for electro-shock therapy for gay teens. He stance of freedom of speech and rights to bear arms is very well received by her political base of utter nut job, gun-totting, racists. Read any of her posts comment sections and you will be pretty enlightened as to who she attracts. And ironically it's the very same class of people Butler has attracted to him over the years as well.

Butlers school in the PI was run by Tapasya Das, Toby Ramon Tamayo who used to pull out his guns regularly to show off tot he gurukulis and show them how to shoot the guns into the gardens.

Tulsi thinks that the media is radicalizing things, but she seems to have no problem jumping on the bandwagon as she cried "hindu-phobia" (as did her rabbit supported) all throughout he presidential run when questioned about her vulgar guru.

Gaudiya Vaishnavas have a history of militant preaching styles. Bhaktisiddhanta was called the "lion guru" as he pretty much claimed his teachings and approach to god was the only real way. Bhaktivedanta was more "chill" in public, but as his many private lectures show, he was racists, mysogynistic pro-dictatorship and anti-science. Never mind Butler and his rants.

Let me just say this: When you have a "Gaudiya Vaishnava" in public office vouching for some 17 year old white boy criminal who took 2 peoples lives, you gotta start to wonder what the hell is this person on?

I had a friend many years back who was stabbed to death by another "devotee" who felt he was right to do so because my friend and his wife were having an affair. By the laws of Manu (you can listen to many lectures and read many purports where Bhaktivedanta and even more recent gurus like Bodhayan Maharaj praise such scriptures), sure. We're in 2021 now. We discuss things and make rational statements based on as many available facts as possible.

A 17 year old living in a privileged society has no right to murder anyone with an assault riffle. A so-called gaudiya Vaishnava has no rational reason to support or even get involved in supporting such violence. Unless, and this is my fear and what I suspect, they are literally being dictated to by their guru who believes that the same rules of life apply now as they did in 1200 BC. Not everything can be fixed with an aloha, namaste or a haribol. Sometimes stupid, is as stupid does.

I think this is one of the harder pills for may people existing this cult to swallow. And that is, how can these scriptures, gurus and their followers, on one hand be supposedly speaking in terms of absolute knowledge, yet exemplify more often than not, a type of ignorance you would expect from an uncultured drunk, not a so-called saint. In that sense, one needs to use their power of discrimination and discern what of it all is valuable and what is not. But on that same note, one must practically realize that one can no longer hold the supposed "messenger" as anyone worthy of worship or adoration beyond a cursory acknowledgment. One cannot in good faith accept ALL that such scriptures and gurus promote as being of value. How could you? When on one hand a man is telling you that you are an eternal soul and we are all equal in the eyes of god, but then an entire system is set up in the cult that breeds false identification with all manner of nonsense posts, roles and hierarchy that obliterates any rational sense of what the philosophy preachers. On one hand the so-called giant, chaitanya, is saying "I am not a brahmin, I am not a this or that..." but lets face it. He was a brahmin, he was a sanyasi and this figured very much into his persona. As does such identification and role-play figure into many aspects fo the cult. Butler married his disciple, so he could "preach to householders" or "women". If he is not his body, who the hell cares what title or role he has externally? His disciples are likely to care more that their guru gave up his vows to marry a disciple of his, more so than they are worried about him maintaining his vows while preaching to whoever he cares to preach to.

Bhaktivedanta loses all credibility when he maintains that he is using snuff tobacco daily for "health" when such a chemical intoxicant has ZERO health benefits (while asking everyone else to abstain from drugs). He claims it helps him stay up all night to write his books. But any rational person who has heard him speak in choppy Indian-english can easily see that his books were not written by him alone. They were heavily edited and written by his followers. The same ones who continued the writing of his final cantos of bhagavatam. Philosophically his books purports are weak and lack depth, are often repetitive and dwell on a lot of amiguity. They are surface purports concerned more with the mythology itself and promoting his ISKCON, rather than adding some philosophically consistent narrative or symbolically coherent metaphor. In fact, many of his purports are downright scientifically inaccurate and naive.

It's not in a spirit of meanness I say this. But simply my observation after having read much of it again without the sentimental vail over my eyes. You may call it lack of faith, but I read these things not with a lack of faith or a desire to find fault, but simply to read at face value without a fanatical, blind adherence to the person of Prabhupada. After all, to a lay reader, he is first and foremost an author (or, translator of ancient texts, as most of the purports and other books he wrote were compiled from lectures/dictation and heavily edited by his disciples). And since his books are available to the general public, I read them as a lay person, not with he preconceived bias of my early years as a devotee. This was eye opening. On very few occasions, when reading in this way, was I really touched by anything deeply. If anything it often felt devoid of a personal wisdom, but rather as if he was simply parroting things on autopilot. Which, upon further reflection, made sense. This was all he ever knew. He was not versed in other scriptures, or even other philosophical systems. This was all he ever believed, studied and knew. It dictated his whole life from birth. So there was little in the way of a personal realization that was apparent, but rather a regurgitation of the same things he had heard his whole life.

As with Butler, none of Bhaktivedantas major projects and visions for his mission every came to fruition. To this day the Mayapur Project is a massive 72 million dollar failure. His books, while impressive, have endless examples of overt literalism to the point of cheesiness. Prabhupada endlessly claimed that his books have all the answers. But answers to what exactly?

I leave you with this. Upon finding out that his many volumes of books were being edited beyond recognition (thank god for editors BTW) of his original dictation, in agitation and anger he went on to say:

Prabhupada: "Anything change means it is the domain of rascals, pandemonium. Just like in Manu-samhita it is said that, nasyam svatantratam arhati, women should not be given independence. Once said, that is fact. If you want to change, you suffer. That's all."

So this is our progressive, spiritually sound "acharya". A man claiming some bullshit archaic text from the dark ages of Indian history, is to be followed to the T. Make your own conclusions if this is anything you want to be associated with.

My approach is that I took from it what was seemingly sound (and since have found countless places more sound and rational, while still affording me a sense of balance, peace and happiness) and left the rest where it belongs. In the trash heap of time.

And then I ran. And kept running.

For those curious about the assorted changes of verses that many of his fanatical disciples complain about (try not to laugh as you read some of these purports and verses... geez):

Fourth Canto

Original version:

The real creation is done by the Supreme Lord Himself by agitating His material energy, and then, by His order, Brahma, the first living creature in the universe, attempts to create the different planetary systems and their inhabitants, expanding the population through his progeny… Svayambhuva Manu is the son of Brahma.

(SB.4.1.1 purport)

Changed version:

The Supreme Lord Himself does the real creation by agitating His material energy, and then, by His order, Brahma, the first living creature in the universe, attempts to create the different planetary systems and their inhabitants, expanding the population through his progeny… Svayambhuva Manu was the son of Brahma.

RUN_FOREST_RUN PURPORT:
What exactly is meant by "agitating"? You gotta love this Vedic cosmology explanation that devotees LOVE to quote as a way of saying the vedas describe the entire process of creation of the universe. God agitated some energy, a 4 headed guy was born on a lotus and whipped up some planets. Voila!

Original version:

Akuti had two brothers, but in spite of her brothers, King Svayambhuva Manu handed her over to Prajapati Ruci on the condition that the son born of her be returned to him as his son.

(SB.4.1.2 translation)

Changed version:

Akuti had two brothers, but in spite of her brothers, King Svayambhuva Manu handed her over to Prajapati Ruci on the condition that the son born of her be returned to Manu as his son.

Original version:

This is called putrika-dharma, which means that by execution of religious rituals he gets a son, although he is sonless by one 's own wife… Manu is the lawgiver of mankind, and since he personally executed the putrika-dharma, it is to be accepted that such a system can be adopted by mankind also. Thus, even though he has a son, if he wants to have a particular son from his daughter, he can give his daughter in charity on that condition.

(SB.4.1.2 purport)

Changed version:

This is called putrika-dharma, which means that by execution of religious rituals one gets a son, although one is sonless by one 's own wife… Manu is the lawgiver of mankind, and since he personally executed the putrika-dharma, we may accept that such a system may be adopted by mankind also. Thus, even though one has a son, if one wants to have a particular son from one 's daughter, one may give one 's daughter in charity on that condition.

RUN_FOREST RUN PURPORT
You gotta love the amount of control all this even have over a woman's reproductive choices and even the future of her kids. It's all so fair, just, loving and dharmic it makes me so sad we don't live in times like this any more.

Original version:

When a devotee becomes mature in his prosecution of devotional service, he sees eye to eye the same Syamasundara he has thought of during the entire course of his devotional service.

(SB.4.9.2 purport)

Changed version:

When a devotee becomes mature in his prosecution of devotional service, he sees face to face the same Syamasundara he has thought of during the entire course of his devotional service.

Original version:

The devotee is allowed to see the Supreme Lord eye to eye, although the Lord is beyond the expression of our senses and beyond our direct perception.

(SB.4.19.10 purport)

Changed version:

The devotee is allowed to see the Supreme Lord face to face, although the Lord is beyond the expression of our senses and beyond our direct perception.


RUN_FOREST_RUN PURPORT
Be patient and keep serving and chanting and you'll see god face to face, eye to eye and some. In the meantime, you are not allowed. Sorry. your senses are not "pure" enough. You may even be offensive unknowingly. Or you may have chosen the wrong guru. Anyway, it's always gonna be on you either way. But god loves you and really wants your love. You gotta believe that, no matter how royally uncomfortable and hard to get it all is, for eternity.

Original version: 4th Cnt(1974) 4.24-45-46

Thus the raga-marga, or Bhagavata-marga,friendship exists on a higher platform with Krsna, namely the platform of vipralambha friendship. Paternal friendship, conjugal paternal service, as well as conjugal service, are visible in the Vrndavana raga-marga relationships.

Changed version: 4th Cnt(1978)

Thus the raga-marga, or bhagavata-marga, friendship exists on a higher platform with Krsna, namely the platform of vipralambha friendship. Paternal friendship, paternal service and conjugal service are visible in the Vrndavana raga-marga relationships.

Original version:

Here, however, it is indicated that those who are constantly engaged in meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord are certainly purified of the material contamination of the senses and are thus able to see the Supreme Lord eye to eye… Lord Siva therefore advises that one who is actually serious about purification must engage himself in this type of meditation or in the mystic yoga system, which will help him not only to see the Lord within constantly but to see Him eye to eye and become His associate in Vaikunthaloka or Goloka Vrndavana.

(SB.4.24.53 purport)

Changed version:

Here, however, it is indicated that those who are constantly engaged in meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord are certainly purified of the material contamination of the senses and are thus able to see the Supreme Lord face to face… Lord Siva therefore advises that one who is actually serious about purification must engage himself in this type of meditation or in the mystic yoga system, which will help him not only to see the Lord within constantly but to see Him face to face and become His associate in Vaikunthaloka or Goloka Vrndavana.

RUN_FORST_RUN PURPORT
You gotta get serious about that purification stuff if you ever want to see the lord eye to eye. Preferably in conjugal parental mood. whatever that is.

Original version:

Just as one gets a chance to consult with the Paramatma within his heart, he also gets a chance to see Him actually situated before him.

RUN_FOREST_RUN PURPORT
If you have a heart transplant, you may accidentally get someone else's paramatma. But don't be alarmed! All paramatmas are created equal and take up the same amount of space. To keep your heart and paramatma healthy, RUN!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 18, 2021 04:53AM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Remember this. Bhaktivedanta swami envisioned a
> world where if people did not accept his Krishna
> god they should be shot:
> [prabhupadasaid.com]

It would have to be confirmed. The philosophy itself says that the material world is for those who refuse to serve God. Alternative. Maya. "Not this". Or statements from the Bhagavatam that the material world comes from, among others, in renunciation.

> Many Butler youth own guns and even show
> themselves on social media proudly holding them
> and shooting them. Rama posted about this years
> ago. Tusli has always been quite eager to join the
> army to shoot muslims and vouch for electro-shock
> therapy for gay teens. He stance of freedom of
> speech and rights to bear arms is very well
> received by her political base of utter nut job,
> gun-totting, racists. Read any of her posts
> comment sections and you will be pretty
> enlightened as to who she attracts. And ironically
> it's the very same class of people Butler has
> attracted to him over the years as well.

The question is whether they will be so brave when facing the People's Liberation Army. Great Fleet, anti-aircraft missiles, Long March missiles and so on.

"No more as a worldly gendarme..".

>
> I had a friend many years back who was stabbed to
> death by another "devotee" who felt he was right
> to do so because my friend and his wife were
> having an affair. By the laws of Manu (you can
> listen to many lectures and read many purports
> where Bhaktivedanta and even more recent gurus
> like Bodhayan Maharaj praise such scriptures),
> sure. We're in 2021 now. We discuss things and
> make rational statements based on as many
> available facts as possible.

There were know examples of adultery in SiF Poland. More officially and in secret.


> Prabhupada: "Anything change means it is the
> domain of rascals, pandemonium. Just like in
> Manu-samhita it is said that, nasyam svatantratam
> arhati, women should not be given independence.
> Once said, that is fact. If you want to change,
> you suffer. That's all."

It was quite an important issue that tormented me personally when I was learning philosophy, because the women in my family were very strong, and even those not religious, they adhered to the principles. This deepened the conflict in my system of values, while the next decades of observations supported by psychology allowed us to conclude that in practice it can be interpreted as the dominance of emotions over the intellect, plus a actually lower tendency to take risks ("earth influence"). Of course, this is accompanied by the phenomenon of acquiring male qualities by modern women and male unemotions. In turn, everything also takes place when there are differences in the structure of the brain. Significant.
> (SB.4.1.2 purport)
>
> Changed version:
>
> This is called putrika-dharma, which means that by
> execution of religious rituals one gets a son,
> although one is sonless by one 's own wife… Manu
> is the lawgiver of mankind, and since he
> personally executed the putrika-dharma, we may
> accept that such a system may be adopted by
> mankind also. Thus, even though one has a son, if
> one wants to have a particular son from one 's
> daughter, one may give one 's daughter in charity
> on that condition.

Utilitarianism? Lack of attachment and love for a child-daughter?

>
> Original version: 4th Cnt(1974) 4.24-45-46
>
> Thus the raga-marga, or Bhagavata-marga,friendship
> exists on a higher platform with Krsna, namely the
> platform of vipralambha friendship. Paternal
> friendship, conjugal paternal service, as well as
> conjugal service, are visible in the Vrndavana
> raga-marga relationships.
>
> Changed version: 4th Cnt(1978)
>
> Thus the raga-marga, or bhagavata-marga,
> friendship exists on a higher platform with Krsna,
> namely the platform of vipralambha friendship.
> Paternal friendship, paternal service and conjugal
> service are visible in the Vrndavana raga-marga
> relationships.

Significant difference "conjugal paternal service" vs "paternal service"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2021 04:57AM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: November 22, 2021 08:12PM

Just sharing interesting info as I find them time to time.
I know many ex butler devotees in here think ACB was perfect. However he said a lot of very non sensical damaging things. This ex iskcon kid had the guts to say it as it is.
Sorry to the Faithful Bhaktivedanta Followers too. I am not here to please anybody or handle people with velvet gloves. I only expose the not so pretty truth.
Noone has to read my posts.
And sorry if I have offended many devotees in here.
Put the sentiments and brainwashing aside and accept that he was not perfect either.
The fanaticisim of the devotees goes so deep. They are so blind that they always try to tansmute crap into gold.
The truth is often very ugly. I have no time and no desire for diplomacy.
To be liked or understood. I know what happened to me and it is good enough.
This freedom comes from having lost it all and pass for a crazy, offensive, atheistic person.
Forgiveness, humility, lower than the straw on the street, put your head in the sand is all very sweet and spiritually rewarding.
Unfortunately we also need arrogant, non submissive people to wake the masses up while the bliss heads are too busy worshipping abusive gurus.
I can either be seen as a schizo demon or a person who is totally deprogrammed.
I am neither afraid to judge nor being judged.
I dream of the day that we finally understand what this whole complex reality is all about.
And why we have been sold so many lies.

Here is the video compilation of his lectures by Radhika Bianchi.

[m.youtube.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: November 24, 2021 11:52PM

Radhika Bianchi is a brave person. She was born and raised in this crap and some of her older videos really capture the sheer lunacy of the swamis words and the complete fanaticism of his blind followers gobbling it all up like kids on Halloween. There is biting cynicism and sarcasm there that many take as "pride" or "envy". But when you listen to what she is saying and revealing, how can one not be sarcastic and cynical? It's almost as if you realize you have been living in some sort of nightmarish sick parody. You marvel and recoil at the thought that so much of your sanity was sacrificed in the fire of insanity—willingly. And you fully bought into it. I'm not talking about like catching yourself developing a bad habit or binge-watching some show here. You literally realize you spent many years of your life thinking this shit was 100% real, with not a moment of questioning if it was rational. It's literally like a drug addict who behaves in totally bizarre ways never once considering that it's totally outlandish until it's too late.

She took a lot of those videos down. One wonders what threats and vilification she received for saying the things she said. It's always funny how devotees feel the need to "protect" their gods and gurus. They are quick to call you "envious". Envious of what??? Envious of saying totally nonsensical things and fooling a bunch of gullible people?

Ironically, she herself did not seem to even be a direct victim of any abuse by the cult. This goes to show that one need not be a victim of any abuse to easily see how mickey mouse it all is. All that is required is to THINK IT THROUGH. Next time you go to a lecture or read a scriptural passage, as yourself the honest question: DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? IS THIS USEFuL TO MY DAILY LIFE IN ANY FUNCTIONAL WAY? WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON WHEN I AM PRACTICING SOME RITUAL, CHANTING A MANTRA OR READING SCRIPTURES? 90% of the time the answer is NOTHING. So why are you doing it? Is it out of fear? Out of a sense of guilt or some naive hope that something miraculous will happen? Did you ever really have some amazing experience or did you just fool yourself into thinking you did? Was any amazing experience you feel you had actually related to the mantra, guru or god? Or could such things happen for a variety of reasons that can be rationally explained (singing with people is pleasant, playing instruments is fun, eating good food with other people is enjoyable, discussing philosophy and listening to stories is pleasant... are people trying to convince you that you are somehow committing some offenses or not chanting the proper way or have displeased your gurudev? If so, call 1-800-IM-IN-A-CULT today!!!

Many others are waking up as well. They realize there are more rational ways to experience balance, happiness and contentment in life without cracking out on hare krishna dogma in a spiritually addicted haze.

One can say Radhika Bianchi made offenses and "fell down" or whatever. Here are the facts. She was raised in a devout devotee family (presumably a lot of good karma and sukriti there. LOL). She spent her childhood hearing, chanting, reading, praying, studying and following all the rules. She drew and painted devotional paintings, danced devotional dances and only really associated with other devotees. By all accounts, as "pure" and "fixed up" as one could ever hope for. What grand offenses could she have committed to realize that not only was krishna consciousness not for her, but the whole package was largely a load of hooey?

Something nagged at her. Something felt off in what was being preached to her, what she saw with her own 2 eyes and felt in her gut/intuition.

What possible, horrible, unknown "offense" could she have committed that any guru/god could not overlook/forgive? I know swamis and brahmins more "sinful" than that who seem to be doing just fine in their "krishna" consciousness. So what happened? Why did she "bloop"?

The answer is she did not "bloop" or succumb to some sort of "maya". She got lucky. Some part of her brain was either awakened or retained (retrained) or unaffected by the cult dynamics. She was able to start to actually think about what the hell she was a part of. And while it may have been totally fine for her to stay in the cult, she realized that there were deep implications in doing so. A cognitive dissonance she was unwilling to live with.

That's powerful and hopeful for those stuck in this mess. There is a life beyond this. And if you are lucky, maybe you will have parents or friends who stay in the cult who are not total nutjobs that will vilify and reject you. Doubtful, but possible. For many that is the hardest aspect of "leaving". They will have to give up many friendships and family. Years of relationships that were deep will dissolve or sour overnight. But rest assured, you will form many other meaningful ties outside the walls of this group. It may take time, but one thing is for sure: They will be relationships not based on total illusion and fantasy and riddled with self-depreciation, confusion and cognitive dissonance.

This is a classic case of cognitive dissonance: [www.cnn.com]

I did this too as a youth. I drank filthy ganga water at the risk f death and dysentery because I read in the scriptures that all my sins would wash away by doing so...

There are MANY people exactly like Radhika in Butler's cult and beyond, who are done and disillusioned with the cult, but stay around because of the more practical aspects: Family ties, friendships, employment, living situations, age, financial ties, businesses etc. And in reality majority of that type of "contact" can never be truly abandoned if you have built your entire life around this group. But you should be able to speak up. Even if it's only on here.

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