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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 07, 2019 05:17PM

A registered religious association had a registered business entity - a company - as the main or sole shareholder. The printing house dealt with both the spiritual part - printing leaflets inviting to lectures, posters, a magazine like Life Force News and normal commercial activity aimed at providing some livelihood for devotee employees.

In practice, the printing market was clogged and very difficult at that time. The printing house started operating with an old one-color machine of several dozen years. There was no chance of commercial success. It was a hard fight, especially since in the city where there was a flood of printing houses, half of them acted unofficially. The printing house operated officially, paid taxes and business fees. Non-commercial work, i.e. leaflets, posters for a religious association was a heavy burden. To earn anything, the printing house took difficult, risky and thankless jobs. Still little money.

The results were different. The printing house was closed. Devotees paid a large part of the printing house's commitments with their property, and in Polish realities it was a very significant part. One initiated marriage of devotees broke up. Devotees have acquired extraordinary unique qualifications and created another commercial company. Very nice people.

The moment they began to earn more and more stable money, they began to be put under pressure for subsidies - "you are the kind of businessman you have to give money". "You must." Which caused trouble again due to exceeded economic realities.

Sweet, full of claims, higher caste.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: October 10, 2019 01:49AM

Anything can be justified by soaking it in the vat of religious fanaticism. The Gita speaks of assorted systems of yoga, karma being one of them. Butler can spew compete ignorance as can swami bhaktivedanta and others and butter it over or take shelter behind their mask of Bhakti and chanting. This is cowardice of the worst kind. They never have to answer fro what they say or do because it is all done out of so-called devotion for their god/guru.

If they really believed in the unequivocal power of the holy name they would simply chant it and that is all. Instead, they make businesses, play politics, pretend to do karma yoga and other welfare programs and so forth. If the holy name is os powerful why the need to do all of this "extra" stuff?

The way that they speak of the holy name is as if it is a magic thing. I'm sorry, but if I had a spell that I can speak that would fulfill all desires and manifest all goodness fro me, I would abandon all else in faith and take shelter of that spell. But the fact is nothing like this exists. And pretending to be giving people something special while asking for their money, free work, service etc is disingenuous and hypocritical. If the holy name is all we need then certainly Butler does not need his followers to wash his underwear or cook for him. One man—with a wife and kids—is being served hand and foot because his followers believe that he is their great connection to god. They can commit all sorts of financial fraud, abuses, lie, cheat, etc and all is good because gurudev said so and the "holy names" are on our side. What is the difference between this and any other cult or religion? Butler can speak complete nonsense about nearly every conceivable topic, use vulgar language and vile descriptions of minorities, his disciples, and anything that he disagrees with—while his disciples cheerfully listen—maybe even give a chuckle—and they are all somehow protected and not allowed to be questioned or doubted or even challenged about it all. Those who do are blasphemers, offenders, demons and rascals. Have you ever seen bhaktivedants swami interviewed by journalists asking sincere questions? The arrogance and agitation is uncanny. Butler gets the same way. They are agitated by simple questions and never quite answer hem fully, deflect, divert and then butter it over with a nice big Haribol... Sound like a certain politician we all know? Tulsi does all the above, calls anyone who questions her a bigot and then says "aloha" to butter things over. The bottom line is to everyone else they say "we love everyone because they are gods children", but behind closed doors and private gatherings their close disciples are hearing something very different.

I recall for years Butler specifically asked that his disciples do not chant the mahamantra in public. It was all gopal govinda Rama and so forth. Even for chanting on beads for new comers. There is no transparency in his cult. It's all secrets, lies and hypocrisy. If he truly believed in the power of his guru and mantras he would unabashedly preach and teach as they did. instead he made up his own crap and reasons why etc. Obviously any sane guru knows that kids need not be exposed to such hateful language as in these videos and that is exactly what many of us had grown up with. Took me years to shake that hatred and a accept that everyone is on their unique path and has no right to trash another way of living based on their so-called guru status. Butler sat and accepted praise and worship for years and continues to do so from the Gabbards and his legion of followers while spewing misinformation, hatred, and mind garbage of the worst kind. He has no business in politics or business. He gave up Sanyas diksha and should have stayed down at that time instead he could not help himself to continue to play guru. It obviously went to his head. He is the same arrogant Sai that he was back then. And those who stayed with him through it all are fools and disingenuous fanatics. Any sane person would look at this man and his life and so-called teachings and run the other way. Take shelter of a more humble master and a guru that does not take you for a ride. Life is short.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 14, 2019 03:05AM

IanKoviak, you felt anger. I also felt angry. I began to wonder why at some points I feel angry. What's wrong with me is that I follow the process or rather try to follow and feel anger.

For today, I can analytically indicate the following:

- Naimittika dharma modified by a person struggling with the effects of LSD can cause students side effects as if they triggered drug addiction to some extent

In traditional Vishnuism it is understood that ultimately naimittika dharma must be rejected because it has side effects.

- The party mind is a locked mind. He sees no objective truth but what is beneficial to the party. Pressure in favor of the party means bending reality.

- One of the former members of SIF Poland shared information that Chris Butler was being treated psychiatrically but did not show evidence of this. Other member of SIF Poland recognized the potential physical and psychological symptoms of the use of 1st generation neuroleptics. The question arises whether these are facts and whether these neuroleptics with devastating side effects have not been dropped.

- In the mood, action, narrative of SIF Poland, expansionism and utilitarianism could be seen - there were situations where initiates were to be sent abroad
- an initiated woman-student with serious emotional problems. It has been verbalized that "SIF Poland explode" is expected. It has been expressed many times dissatisfaction that "there are no new people." Recruitment / expansion, not education.

- Americanisms were also noticed, interfering with the Polish mentality

- Affection and chastizement based method of helping the student by the guru has been transformed into "god cop / bad cop" tactics. One of the members of SIF Poland, reminded that one of the guru representatives coming from the USA ordered the leaders of SIF Poland to organize teaching in centers so that one person corrects people and the other kindly educates. Of course, this will not replace the self-realized guru who bestows the student's affection and corrects it through chastizement. So the potentially traditional approach of Vishnuism has turned into a psychological manipulation / tactics technique.


IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anything can be justified by soaking it in the vat
> of religious fanaticism. The Gita speaks of
> assorted systems of yoga, karma being one of them.
> Butler can spew compete ignorance as can swami
> bhaktivedanta and others and butter it over or
> take shelter behind their mask of Bhakti and
> chanting. This is cowardice of the worst kind.
> They never have to answer fro what they say or do
> because it is all done out of so-called devotion
> for their god/guru.

According to traditional vishnuism, the student should even challenge the Guru with questions, of course in good faith and in accordance with etiquette. Substantive and not arrogant. In critical sutations, he may give up the guru if he manifests symptoms of fall.

According to Bhagavad Gita, 4.34:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

First approach, then inquire, then serve. No question of guru being unattainable or not aswering questions if asked properly.


> If they really believed in the unequivocal power
> of the holy name they would simply chant it and
> that is all. Instead, they make businesses, play
> politics, pretend to do karma yoga and other
> welfare programs and so forth. If the holy name is
> os powerful why the need to do all of this "extra"
> stuff?

That is a good question. Charity is good. It gives confidence in a certain sanga, because generally recruiting religious organizations often cause aversion.

Also compassion for living beings can be expressed on different levels: spiritual, mental and physical.


> The way that they speak of the holy name is as if
> it is a magic thing. I'm sorry, but if I had a
> spell that I can speak that would fulfill all
> desires and manifest all goodness fro me, I would
> abandon all else in faith and take shelter of that
> spell. But the fact is nothing like this exists.
> And pretending to be giving people something
> special while asking for their money, free work,
> service etc is disingenuous and hypocritical. If
> the holy name is all we need then certainly Butler
> does not need his followers to wash his underwear
> or cook for him. One man—with a wife and kids—is
> being served hand and foot because his followers
> believe that he is their great connection to god.

What gives Holy Name is a question of individual experience. Nonetheless, according to Bhagavad Gita again, to fullfill needs of material body one has to
work. So question arises how much teachings of Bhagavad Gita were followed. I was personally forced to ask myself that question.


> They can commit all sorts of financial fraud,
> abuses, lie, cheat, etc and all is good because
> gurudev said so and the "holy names" are on our
> side.

The foundation of yoga is "yama" - universal morality.

> What is the difference between this and any
> other cult or religion? Butler can speak complete
> nonsense about nearly every conceivable topic, use
> vulgar language and vile descriptions of
> minorities, his disciples, and anything that he
> disagrees with—while his disciples cheerfully
> listen—maybe even give a chuckle—and they are all
> somehow protected and not allowed to be questioned
> or doubted or even challenged about it all. Those
> who do are blasphemers, offenders, demons and
> rascals.

Yes, the negative attitude and message has personally been the subject of doubt and confusion for me.


> I recall for years Butler specifically asked that
> his disciples do not chant the mahamantra in
> public. It was all gopal govinda Rama and so
> forth. Even for chanting on beads for new comers.

Here, as a meaningful and objective explanation, the purpose can be given - to distinguish from ISKCON, especially from ISCKON in the west, where a lot of abuse (arms trade, murders) occurred. This has some justification.


> Butler sat and accepted praise and worship for years and
> continues to do so from the Gabbards and his
> legion of followers while spewing misinformation,
> hatred, and mind garbage of the worst kind.

The Gabbard role is still a mystery and subject of analysis.


> He has no business in politics or business.

It was confusing and controversiall, especially A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami had no faith in politics and moreover, expressed view, that when people change, they change the politicians they choose.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2019 03:13AM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: October 15, 2019 01:56AM

Sad and wasted are the days, months and years listing to Butler and following his whims. Sad and wasted.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 15, 2019 02:12PM

and yet....Tulsi obeys...24-7.

Do you see what is really going on here?

Jack Robins on Twitter (@JackRob67175771):
"Damn she really does worship him!




Stay tuned for more of Tulsi's Greatest Hits.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 15, 2019 02:30PM

From Twitterlandia-

Truthi2020
@truthi2020
Follow
Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard is a liar and a fraud. Her fake presidential campaign is funneling donations to her cult the Science of Identity Foundation.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Christine Gralow
@realchrissyg
·
Oct 10
You're so full of it. You ran from primary debates in Hawai'i, and you are being advised to run from serious questions about your complete immersion in the Science of Identity cult and the extreme LGBTQ hate and Muslim hate speech coming from the man you worship, Chris Butler.

[Editors note: The hard questions FINALLY get asked and Tulsi wants to boycott]

[www.youtube.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 15, 2019 02:41PM

One big happy DESPOTIC family

Twitter Quote: "Pieter Friedrich
@FriedrichPieter
·
Oct 13
#TulsiGabbard positioning herself as an apologist for Hindu nationalism. Quote: “Hindu nationalism is a term that many people are using frequently without being specific about what they mean by that. Why is expressing pride in one’s religion a bad thing?”

Maybe when "pride" leads to mass murder?"


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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 15, 2019 06:37PM

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #TulsiGabbard positioning herself as an apologist
> for Hindu nationalism. Quote: “Hindu nationalism
> is a term that many people are using frequently
> without being specific about what they mean by
> that. Why is expressing pride in one’s religion a
> bad thing?”

Bhagavad Gita, 16. 4

"Hypocrisy, pride, self-conceit, wrath, arrogance and ignorance belong, O Partha, to him who is born to the heritage of the demons.”

Bhagavad Gita, 17.12

"But that sacrifice performed for some material end or benefit or performed ostentatiously, out of pride, is of the nature of passion, O chief of the Bharatas."

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sad and wasted are the days, months and years
> listing to Butler and following his whims. Sad and
> wasted.

Most people in Poland were unaware of the realities of Hawaii. We did not know the chronology of events and the related lectures, which was particularly important because it made understanding difficult.

What is really interesting, Mr. Midget comes to Poland and teaches now "mindfullness". Hm... not foolness?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 06:44PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 16, 2019 02:29PM

Apologies- "Despotic Family" image above is courtesy of Jack Robins.


more, more !!!

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 16, 2019 07:43PM

So called Mindfulness meditation has become a fad and a very big business.

A lot of crooks are using mindfulness as a cover to peddle material that's exploitative.

Anything trendy can and will attract crooks.

Here are some trends and fads commonly used by cult bandits.

*Meditation and or Mindfulness

*healthy eating

*yoga

*life coaching

*activism, especially activism in relation to anything frightening or about which society is guilt ridden.

Fact check anything and anyone offering classes and workshops in these areas.

If someone who has no.prior background in activism shows up presenting themselves, fact check them. When cults self destruct, senior teachers often make new careers for themselves and go into areas where they can recruit generous people.

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