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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 18, 2019 06:21PM

Back to Tulsi Gabbard and her so-called "teacher" Chris Butler.

Many years ago I came across an article written by a very scholarly and educated man (something that Butler is not nor ever will be) by the name of Fr. A Maximiadis.
In this article below, Fr Maximiadis had challenged Butler to a philosophical debate.
I do remember hearing back in the 1980's, & on various occasions from several of Butler's obedient (and unpaid) servants, that they did so wish for their feckless leader to be able to challenge ANY religious figure in the world- They felt sure that their "Teacher" would be able to annihilate anyone that stood before him to debate religion or other such topics. They relished the vision of seeing their Master sweep the floor with these (and her you can fill in your own terms) ministers, priests, deacons or learned Doctors of Philosophy.

I knew that would NEVER happen,
The man was and is a cretin.

Butler must have known this as well, so rather than leave his protected enclave & simpering and adoring servants,Butler never responded to a challenge that he would have absolutely lost.
Sadly, Fr Maximiadis passed away two years ago.
That would have been a good debate to witness.
Butler wouldn't have lasted one round with a well educated and respected human being.

Article # 1- [fathershomepage.com]

PS: The video that Fr Maximiadis was referring too in the second article about Butler, has been widely circulated on this forum and elsewhere. It is the one showing Butler ridiculing Christianity and Mike and Carol Gabbard are seen laughing right along with Butler. But its funny how Butler suddenly ordered his minions to curry favor with the Christians when he went on his homophobic & political campaigns and needed money from them.

Article # 2 - [fathershomepage.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 18, 2019 06:34PM

And five years after the good Fr. Maximiadis had sent his letter of inquiry to Butler, and having received (naturally) no response, he followed that up
with the penultimate smack-down.

Yes I would have paid a small fortune to sit front and center at that debate!

2005- September 8

[fathershomepage.com]

Again, a person can only be as good or bad, as their Teacher Guru

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 18, 2019 06:55PM

So, when "Back To Tulsi" requires correcting next things. Interesting articles appear here trying to blur the reality. And that Tulsi Gabbard is not affiliated with SIF or claims that Mike Gabbard is a Catholic.

[beautyitselfispurpose.branchable.com]

In practice, it may not be known in the USA, but Tulsi Gabbard and Mike Gabbard visited Poland and SIF Poland a few years ago (now these are different groups, decentralization) for retreat. They also visited Ukraine and the group's branch there.

Miraculous coincidence?

Or maybe you need pics, cuties?

If in doubt, ask Mr. Midget. He is absolutely truthful after all. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2019 06:57PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: November 19, 2019 04:28AM

The antics of Butler have raised more than a few eyebrows in the real Vaishnava communities. There were a few letters written by ACB taking Butler to task for committing various offenses, so much so that ACB referred to him as a "rascal" at one point (1973). Any long time student of ACB (A.C. Bhativedanta) knows what that means.

Here is another viewpoint below on Butler and Tulsi. I do apologize in advance as I have never subscribed to some of the opinions expressed in this article. It is written by a student of ACB, a Vaishnva, so I thought it relevant for people to see what other Vaishnavas think of Tulsi and by extension, Butler. Some of the opinions put forward in this article may sound strange to the typical western mind, but would be quite familiar to the devotees of Butler. It is certainly a critique on Tulsi & Butler, based on the teachings of ACB (who truthfully did not hold women in high esteem) The comments that follow are interesting as well.

[prabhupadasrawtruth.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 19, 2019 04:51AM

Abortion (especially in late weeks of pregnancy), woman in politics etc. are controversial and contradictive to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. No doubt.

As far as selling temple in Hawaii is concerned, i did not have this knowledge till 2017 or something. I do not remember anyone (i.e. Mr. Midget) telling us this information.

What about second marriage - the teachings in SIF were that second marriage or next should be on vanaprastha level. Not romantical.

Why does this second marriage have such a romantic artistic setting? Why is it promoted on the internet instead of being somewhere quiet with her closest family?

[www.youtube.com]

Do you recognize SIF members among guests?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2019 04:52AM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Dudley ()
Date: November 26, 2019 01:42PM

Dear Da Whatcher

The children of the "baby boomer" followers of Siddhaswarup never

experienced the loving kind nature of his Divine Grace nor do

they know what went on back in the 1970s( they weren't around). In the early days of

the Siddhaswarup personality cult.


Case in point the abortion issue. Look at the last letter ACBSP wrote to Tusta.

February 04, 1977


His Holiness Tusta Krsna Swami
PO Box 82, Mairangi Bay, Auckland
New Zealand

3 Albert Road
Calcutta 17


Dear Tusta Krsna Maharaj,

Please accept my blessings. I have received your letter of January 19, and have heard the contents.

Certainly we are opposed to abortion, and we can advise that it is not good,
but do not take an active part in this political agitation against abortion. We
are not much concerned in that way, so do not waste time approaching
politicians or affiliating with others on the basis of the anti-abortion issue.
We are Krsna Conscious and we are for Krsna Consciousness; that is our issue.
Abortion is only a side issue. Whatever you have done that is all right, but
concentrate now on our main business to make everyone Krsna Conscious. Our
method is simple as taught by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu: chant Hare Krishna and
distribute prasadam. And if we find someone who is a little educated, try to
distribute a book to him, and with the profit we can maintain.

Hoping this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami


So you can see Tusta was firmly anti abortion but some of friends were willing

to go a step further and commit acts of violence for the cause. New Zealand

had just established its first legal abortion clinic in Auckland in the mid 70s

surrounded in outcry and controversy.

A person who chanted in Auckland and went by the name Curly Dave asked Tusta. "Will I

suffer bad karma if I blow up the abortion clinic" Tusta responded " no, there is no

bad karma". Now it was comman knowledge that Curly played around with explosives and

blow things up at the beach for fun. So it was poor judgement by Tusta to condone

this behaviour in anyway. Now Tadatmana das had his own system where he melted styro

foam and fire bombed the clinic and caused $100K in damages. Curly Dave decided he

was going to finish the job properly so he was packing a bomb in his flat in

Kranghapi Road, when the bomb exploded accidentially, sending Dave's severed head

onto K road in front of a bus. A friend who had just arrived at the door was also

killed. The flat was part of a property were Caru and Vrndavan Doyle lived. It was

big news at the time and Tusta phoned Siddhaswarup in Hawaii and then

went on NZ TV and said that Curly wasn't really apart of his Krishna chanting group.

You have to remember at this time in NZ violence of any kind was virtually unknown.

Also ACBSP's letter dated June 1976

"...But it is my fervent request that the devotees not make any "bombing-

lila" as it was publicized recently".


So my point is, fast forward 45 years to 2019 and here we have Tusli Gabbard

(Siddha swarup's puppet) running for President advocating for abortion and taking

money from Planned Parenthood USA $15k (2012-16). All Siddhaswarup's disciples

and followers taking on the karma by assisting her. The general population and the

young devotees thinking that Hindus accept abortion.


All this is absolute proof that Siddhaswarup is not a pure devotee/vaisnava he is a

materialist who wants to be the guru to the President of the United States and is

prepared to do or say anything to get there. Even go against his own Spiritual Master

and the Vedas.

All the older memebers of the Siddhaswarup sect like Vadjiraja, Pralad

Hansen, Hari Rama, Nimal das etc they all know that this story is true but they have

been drinking the cordial for so long that they can't see the truth even when its

right in front of them.

I remember the lines in Siddhaswarup's album " This world an another world" released

in 1975- "there's room for the dog, the TV and the car the child who is

not born yet he makes my life too hard".

Hare Krishna

Dudley

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: AC4711 ()
Date: November 27, 2019 01:35AM

Dudley,
Spot on and thank you very well said and well described. Lots of info and a clear precise post.

The devotees of Butler like to refer to "kala desa, patra" when it comes to Butler...

"kala desa, patra; that is: time, place and circumstance"
So if it serves Butler's needs and desires then it is ok due to this time and place being Kali Yuga, and the circumstance is "everyone is against us"

in the Hardcore aging followers and their brainwashed children, Butler is Pure and can do no wrong. If they were to think he is not pure and he can do wrong he is no longer their guru.
Butler has been and is continuing to pull his own ideas out of his Guda and calling it Gold. Allowing his fingernails and Toe Nails and hair to be eaten and shared like prasadam to all of his followers and their children is the work of a madman. It is safe to say that AC baktivedanta rejected him, he is no longer in his divine graces grace and he did not like being a simple follower but he wanted to sit on the throne of power and see what type of Gold he could dig out of his Guda and say to his adoring followers "Look at this Gold !!" Keep posting Dudley, you have added great content.
AC-

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: November 27, 2019 08:18AM

Dudley,

Thank you for the shocking description.

As follows from the letter, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami clearly discouraged political activities as not being a simple method: chanting Hare Krishna, prasadam distibution, books distribution.

Dudley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curly Dave decided he was going to finish the job properly so he was packing
> a bomb in his flat in Kranghapi Road, when the bomb exploded accidentially,
> sending Dave's severed head onto K road in front of a bus. A friend who had
> just arrived at the door was also killed.

Incredible. Spectacular horror.

The fact that Curly Dave was asking Tusta Krishna about karma, while A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami was still present shows the hierarchy of relations in the context of authority.


> It was big news at the time and Tusta phoned Siddhaswarup in Hawaii and then
> went on NZ TV and said that Curly wasn't really apart of his Krishna chanting
> group.

To uderstand well:

"a part of his Krishna chanting group" or "apart of his Krishna chanting group"


> So my point is, fast forward 45 years to 2019 and here we have Tusli Gabbard
> (Siddha swarup's puppet) running for President advocating for abortion and ?
> taking money from Planned Parenthood USA $15k (2012-16).

$15K a year?

In a geopolitical sense, India may be attractive to the US as a lever, hence the establishment may be interested in Tulsi Gabbard, even if they know she follows her religion poorly. The question arises, whose political ambition it was - not parents, Gabbards?

> All Siddhaswarup's disciples and followers taking on the karma by assisting her.

Yes, it is strange, because it's easy to get to know about abortion or same-sex marriage in her political views, and in fact there is considerable enthusiasm among the members of former SIF Poland, not only former leaders / activists but also nice common members. The question, of course, is what's in it with punishment for billions of cows dying in slaughterhouses each year - formally in line with the philosophy responsibility falls to the king - 1/7. They didn't think too much.

> The general population and the young devotees thinking that Hindus accept abortion.

This is a big problem. It's not even a matter of public opinion that Hindus accept abortion. There are such activists in Poland as Sister Michaela, who will burden religion in general with the irreconcilable observance by followers of their religion. In the case of Sister Michaela Vaishnavism is blamed for Hindus' lack of mercy. I personally met this nun and she went so far as to attribute A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's bad motives.

>I remember the lines in Siddhaswarup's album " This world an another world" >released in 1975- "there's room for the dog, the TV and the car the child who >is not born yet he makes my life too hard".


I remember we were told not to listen to it because it is not for devotees. In 90's.

AC4711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>The devotees of Butler like to refer to "kala desa, patra" when it comes to Butler...

>"kala desa, patra; that is: time, place and circumstance"
>So if it serves Butler's needs and desires then it is ok due to this time and >place being Kali Yuga, and the circumstance is "everyone is against us"

Too many kala, too many desa, too many patra makes a habbit. Dominating rule. It was a problem to observe lack of morality or law breaking.

"everyone is against us" is a symptom of the besieged fortress syndrome. From my observation, the mechanism caused the party mentality factor. Action - reaction.


>Butler has been and is continuing to pull his own ideas out of his Guda and >calling it Gold.

You mean guda

[sanskritdictionary.org]

or

[sanskritdictionary.com]

?

>It is safe to say that AC baktivedanta rejected him,

Rama Ranson in one post stated that A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami forbade Siddhaswarupananda to practice the yoga-nidra technique, whatever it may be, as not part of the Vaisnava tradition. Is there any formal evidence for this? Letter? In Poland, the groups formed from the division of SIF Poland teach yoga-nidra.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2019 08:29AM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Dudley ()
Date: November 30, 2019 04:06PM

The Abortion Issue - Part 2

"I saw millions of babies killed yet while in the womb. As a mother cried out our house has got no room. Yes there's room for the dog, the TV and the car the child who cannot speak yet makes my life too hard".

Have a listen to “Thots” on discogs.com, it’s an apocalyptic vision of present day society

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Dudley ()
Date: November 30, 2019 05:56PM

It’s like in the novel “1984” where Big Brother changes the truth to suit the current circumstance. And the general population passively go along with, that is what’s happening here

When Tulsi Gabbard started her career in the US House of Representatives. Some of her support team and other members of SIF in Hawaii raised their concerns about her pro abortion agenda. They thought that it was morally wrong. When Siddhaswarup found out about the backlash he got Krishna Katha das (Mike Gabbard) to have a meeting and quell the dissent. Krishna Katha das told the meeting that “it’s only a strategy” “she doesn’t really believe in abortion and gay rights”. Can you believe it Jagat Guru (the teacher of the world) could not face up to his disciples and explain the Gabbard policy himself? What an abdication of responsibility. He and everyone else knows his past public statements. He knew that if anyone questioned him he would be revealed as a fraudster, a fake guru. He knows the Vedic injunctions that not only those that have an abortion but those who facilitate, those that sanction abortion, those that provide financial support all bare some bad karma SB 1.7.37

Some may go along with the “strategy” proposition but we can ask them what if just one more baby was aborted because of Tulsi Gabbard’s public statements. Who takes the karma for that?

Bhagavat Gita 3.21
Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues.

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