Hello, sorry for the lack of long contact. The issue of writing here was not an easy thing. And for now I will comment sporadically.

I will also add briefly that the motto of my action are the words I address especially to Mr. Midget:

"The right to truth and justice deprives you of the right to comfortable self-justification or group self-justification"

I don't even want to go beyond fact and truth for 0.1 millimeter.


VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello DaWatcher, pleased to finally hear from a
> former Polish devotee.
> I just have a few questions for you, if I may?

> Were the Polish devotees obligated, coerced or
> shamed into sending money to Butler? Were they
> also condemned if something went wrong for Butler
> and were they fined (forced to send money) as the
> American devotees were?

From the perspective of a uninitiated member of the group (and a number of things were hidden before such members or, for example, they were not invited to the so-called initiated meetings) it looked something like this:

It was understandable that donating supports the Guru mission. Personally, however, I have not heard that there was a request to send funds abroad, to Hawaii. However, there was such an expectation for initiates, understood as a guru-daksin, but the controversy was the fact that 50% of revenues in Polish realities is unrealistic, when the cost of living can be in the order of e.g. 75% especially for people without a certified education, permanent work etc. due to the large number of time spent at the center.

However, from the accounts of another former member of SIF Poland, I heard that this expectation was verbalized around 2008 and 2009, which was supposed to lead a number of people to leave SIF Poland or make great confusion.

> How many kids did you witness working without pay?
> I witnessed many of the kids forced to work for
> Butler on several occasions. They called it
> "devotional service" which was, in fact, unpaid
> slave labor.


Personally, I have not witnessed kids working without pay. It must be said that Catholic upbringing or academic education has often obstructed submission or the desire to reproduce the strange behavior of the leaders of SIF Poland.

A large part of the activity was associated with socially beneficial things, such as participation in social campaigns, cooking meals at charity events.

However, i have knowledge about activities done for the businessess abroad, let say looking like an exclusive one, where people engaged in it did not know if it was "material" or "spiritual" activity and the issue of gratification was never raised. What's more, those involved paid for the premises themselves, there was also a moment where they had nothing to eat and the issue of self-earning was also unclear, especially that one of the charismatic leaders highlighted the issue of uncompetitiveness at the time. uncompetitiveness


> It was usually involving one or other
> of the many businesses that Butler had set up for
> profit. Nothing was ever in his nanme, of course.
> He had a convenient foil- they called it the Wai
> Lana Yoga gimmick.

We did not know exactly the material conditions on the site.

Personally, until 2017, I didn't even know that Chris Butler had a step son. Only daughters were mentioned.


> Did the Polish devotees ever receive - from
> Hawaii- the special prasadam packages? Each
> box guaranteed (especially in the 1990's) to
> contain TOENAILS?

In the 90's it was possible - I remember such idea. There was no determination on either side to give or receive. Later they were sweets, old clothes which were accepted.


> Do you know, by any chance, how many kids were
> seriously injured or died, due to parental
> neglect? The parents were usually too busy to
> care for their children--they were serving the
> Master.

There was an event where, in turn, the two children of one of the members died, it was a social scandal, while he was a recluse, he seemed to have a bizarre view and this matter is a mystery to me.


> There was never any question in my mind that
> children were abused & neglected in one form or
> another in this cult.

Generally, having children was percepted rather like a lack of spiritual advancement.

What is shock for example for me that: Tulsi Gabbard is initiated, supports abortion, when in Poland in the 90s they would burn you at the stake for eating a cake with the wrong ingredient, e.g. E120



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2019 11:56PM by DaWatcher.

Thank you, Da Watcher, for your response. It appears that the same MO [modus operandi] was used on the Polish devotees as the others around the world- if there is something that you do not know about- then you don't need to know about it- typical Butler control tactics. The truth was and is something that is practiced very little in this cult,
Very compartmentalized and isolation is the order of the day (isolate one group from another- or one family member from another).

I am not surprised to hear that children were of little value---except if they managed to reach young adulthood and were still brainwashed- then they could become the next generation of slaves for Butler.

And this- on the 666th page of the thread of Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity- comes yet another reveal:

"EXCLUSIVE
Islamophobic World View of Tulsi Gabbard's Guru Revealed in Unearthed Recordings – Can she Still Run for President?
CJ Werleman
3 October 2019 -Quote: "Questions about Tulsi Gabbard and her family’s ties to Chris Butler, a self-styled guru and founder of an offshoot organisation of the Hare Krishna movement called The Science of Identity, have dogged the 2020 Democratic Party presidential candidate since the moment she ran for a seat in Hawaii’s state house aged 21 in 2002.

Whereas the now 38-year-old has dodged and deflected the influence and role Butler and his sect have played in shaping her views in the past, she has become more forthright about her association and involvement with him in recent times, telling The New Yorker in 2017 that Butler had shaped her Hindu identity. She expressed her “gratitude to him for the gift of this wonderful spiritual practice that he has given to me”, adding that she had never heard him say an unkind thing.

This is a curious claim given Butler’s attitude towards homosexuality is well-documented, including accounts of him routinely describing gay people as “faggots” and “demonic” – views that have also been expressed by Gabbard publicly in the past, including the time she accused The Honolulu newspaper of “acting as a conduit for the homosexual extremist supporters” of her father’s political opponents on the council of the Wai’anae-to-Ewa district in 2004.

It is time for Gabbard to be honest with the American public about her ties to a peculiar and bigoted religious-based cult.

Gabbard has since renounced her previously held anti-gay views, at least in public, claiming that she experienced a “gradual metamorphosis” on the issue after experiencing more of the world during her overseas military deployments.

However, she must answer further questions about her ties to Butler now that a source close to Science of Identity has leaked to me previously unheard audio recordings of her guru describing Muslims in the most viciously racist ways imaginable, alongside what appears to be a 2018 video of Gabbard attending a ceremony in which she and other attendees are seen giving praise to an altar carrying a framed photo of Butler.

The tapes and the accompanying transcripts, which run to more than 8,000 pages, document lectures given by Butler to his flock in Hawaii from the late 1960s to 2006.

Butler’s Islamophobic Culture War

While much of the content deals with Hinduism, Hare Krishna beliefs in general, and the virtues of sexual and moral purity, Butler’s lectures are laced throughout with what can only be described as extreme hostility towards both Muslims and homosexuals.

“They [Muslims] are demons. They’re demons that go ‘Allalalalah’. It’s bullshit. But everyone is afraid of them, and Christians are so f*cking passive. So-called Christians are just watching the faggots take over. Watching the Muslims cut their throats. They’re just cowards because they’re afraid to tell the truth in case of what happens,” says Butler in one lecture, whose words are followed by the encouraging laughter of his followers.

In another, he says: “There’s absolutely no value in putting up with this dog shit [Islam] in the name of tolerance.” He then goes on to compare Islam with Communism, arguing that once Communists come to power “you’re dead, you’re finished, you’re gone… It’s the same with the so-called Muslims.”

One of Butler’s central themes about Islam is his claim that it is a religion spread exclusively by the sword and he dismisses the idea that Muslims are capable of finding their faith on their own accord through “inspiration” or “logic”.

“I’m not in a mood to be tolerant towards so-called Muslims,” he says. “The fact is that Muhammad got his followers through the sword and, ever since that time, they’ve developed their philosophy. Their philosophy is you get your swords, you go to another country, and then you get your swords and then you put your swords to the throats of the people in that country and you say, ‘worship as we worship God or we will kill you.’”


Butler also falsely claims that Islam spread to India and destroyed Hinduism, contending that “when the Muslim invaders entered India, they engaged in the most demonic of activities” and that “instead of having faith in God, they engage in demonic activism to force people into becoming members of their own team, or their so called religion by force,” including smashing Hindu temples, erecting mosques in their place and “shoving meat into the mouths to make them so-called Muslims, so that they’ll longer be accepted by Hindu society.”

He is also fond of mocking Islamic culture and claims that Muslims are producers of art only because their religion does not permit illustrations of the Prophet Muhammad.

“Muslims make a lot of nice paintings,” he says. “A lot of scribbles! Ever see a Muslim rug? It’s very beautiful, very fancy, all kinds of scribbles. Why? Because they can’t depict anything other than scribbles or they go to jail. They think God is a scribble. When they leave this body, all they’ll see is scribbles and flowers and onions and the sword, of course.”

These tapes make clear that Butler views Islam as a geopolitical threat and a potent source of global instability. And it is through this lens that Butler views all geopolitical struggles, including the 70-year long rivalry between India and Pakistan over Kashmir, claiming: “Now these nut cases are trying to get the atom bomb. Oh, great! Accept Allah or we blow up your country. There’s only one reason Pakistan hasn’t dropped atom bombs in India? That’s because there are 200 million Muslims still in India. As soon as they leave – BOOM!”

He also criticises the US for protecting Saudi Arabia from Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War, telling his audience: “Fuck these guys. They shouldn’t have defended these guys. They should’ve said fuck you.”

Science of Identity in Gabbard’s Campaign

Ian Koviak, an Oregon-based book designer who has produced jacket covers for some of the world’s bestselling authors, is a former devotee of Butler, having joined Science of Identity as a 10-year-old after his mother was introduced to the guru’s teachings through a friend.

Koviak says the voice in the recordings most certainly belongs to Butler, as do the words attached to the 8,000 page-long transcript.

Gabbard must now not only answer questions about her ties to Butler and the Science of Identity, but also those that ask how deeply entrenched the sect is embedded within her 2020 presidential campaign.

Christine Gralow, a journalist who has contributed to The New York Times, has tracked the relationships and influence of known Science of Identity members since becoming a resident of Hawaii. At considerable risk to her life, Gralow has posted a great many of her investigative insights into the sect on her community-based website MeanwhileInHawaii.org.

“Nearly her entire inner circle of her campaign are Chris Butler followers,” Gralow told me. “Her sister, parents, husband, and chief of staff are all active members of the Science of Identity.”

A former campaign assistant to Gabbard, who agreed to speak to me on the condition of anonymity, affirmed this. “The cult completely runs her campaign, from members of her family to people who have worked in her or her father’s office, to people who work in cult front business operations who are now on her campaign team,” they said. “The cult has sent members to the primary state locations in New Hampshire and Iowa because they will work for free. People who are not American citizens are actively working on her campaign.”

Who is Tulsi Gabbard?

In a 2018 video sent to me by Gralow, Gabbard can be seen wearing a black top as she stands next to a white awning pole and in front of what appears to be a candlelit altar that carries a framed photograph of Butler, while a band – whose drummer is Gabbard’s husband Abraham Williams – plays a tune from the other side of the property’s pool. The attendees, including Gabbard, can be seen queuing up as they wait their turn to pay homage or lay a wreath of flowers in honour or worship of Butler.

“I also remember Chris Butler held this larger than life presence in my childhood,” writes Lalita, a former devotee, in an article titled An Insider’s Perspective on Tulsi Gabbard and Her Guru. “Everything I did I had to think about how it benefitted him. He was my parents’ spiritual master and they looked to him for guidance on everything, from what to eat, to how to raise their children, and they did it all without question.

“I was raised to believe Chris Butler was God’s voice on earth, and if you questioned him or offended him in any way, you were effectively offending God… So questioning the leader was spiritual suicide, which was seen as worse than death. So no one questioned. Chris Butler also would ridicule the intelligence of anyone he didn’t like, belittling anyone he felt was questioning his authority even slightly. He demanded the utmost dedication and loyalty from his followers and if he didn’t get it, the punishments were swift and severe.”

This was something Gabbard was born into and has been at the centre of her life. It is not something easily bled out, according to Gralow. Butler has held the Hawaii Congresswoman under his spell since early childhood and has shaped who she is as an adult and politician today – as she herself has said.

Gralow, who has also heard the audio recordings, affirms that it is Butler delivering the lectures. She has had a number of former Science of Identity devotees agree with this.

Butler has been heavily involved in Hawaii politics since his early followers created the Independents for Godly Government’s Political Party on Maui in the 1970s. It would seem that, in Gabbard, Butler has his first realistic – albeit slim – chance of realizing his [political] dream.

It is worth noting that it wasn’t that long ago that American voters had questions and concerns about a Mormon – Mitt Romney – or Catholic – John Fitzgerald Kennedy – occupying the White House, the fear being that the person feels accountable to an outside authority rather than the Constitution and citizens of the United States. But, Science of Identity is hardly a mainstream religion, it is a bona fide cult, one that was led by an individual who holds an almost violent hatred of Muslims and homosexuals in every fibre of his being.


“The anti-Muslim animus comes not only from her Islamophobic guru but also from her constant misuse of ethnic slurs, such as ‘Wahhabi/Salafi’ etc. very ignorantly as if they are the same thing,” Gabbard’s former campaign assistant told me. “She has been asked repeatedly to stop using these terms she does not understand. Any Arabic speaker or person from the region could hear her butchering these terms and know she is doing it for purposes of fear-mongering.”

Gabbard has shared Butler’s anti-homosexual views in the past and long espoused attitudes that are equally as hostile towards Muslims and Islam as Butler. These include support for a bill described as “racist and xenophobic” because it placed a halt on refugees from certain Muslim-majority countries entering the country; blaming the civil wars in Iraq and Syria on Islamic “theology”; the minimisation of violence against Muslims in India; smearing the Syrian dictator’s political opposition as “Salafi Wahabists”; and the enormous amount of political donations she has received from Muslim-hating groups and individuals in India.

It is clearly time for Gabbard to be honest with the American public about her and her campaign’s ties to a peculiar and bigoted religious-based cult.

Byline Times has contacted Tulsi Gabbard for a response. Chris Butler remains unreachable but Byline Times has contacted members of his family for a response." End quote.

[bylinetimes.com]

AUDIO: [www.patreon.com]

You can only be as good (or bad) as your teacher.



page 666... indeed!

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, Da Watcher, for your response. It
> appears that the same MO [modus operandi] was used
> on the Polish devotees as the others around the
> world- if there is something that you do not know
> about- then you don't need to know about it-
> typical Butler control tactics. The truth was and
> is something that is practiced very little in this
> cult,
> Very compartmentalized and isolation is the order
> of the day (isolate one group from another- or one
> family member from another).
>
> I am not surprised to hear that children were of
> little value---except if they managed to reach
> young adulthood and were still brainwashed- then
> they could become the next generation of slaves
> for Butler.

Devotees in Poland did not know many things. Even some initiates with whom he remained in contact for some time do not know to this day, i.e:

1. There was no information about the political party, Independents For Godly Government, and especially that Mr. Midget was her sponsor. I found this information on the internet in 2018 or 2019. And in particular that it was founded before the departure of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.

So what was and what is the role of Mr. Midget, especially when he is the connection between devotees in Poland and looking old and ill Chris Butler.

2. There was a popularized biography according to which Chris Butler achieved nirvakalpa samadhi through the practice of mystic yoga, not through "LSD trip". A self-realized bhakti yogi, formerly a drug addict, would be credible as an inspirational and believing example. Hiding this information - if it is true - is not credible and would affect the decision to listen to the teachings and follow the process in a given sanga.

3. There is no awareness that in traditional Vishnuism, the master-student relationship is based on affection and chastizement, and together they form a complete set. Instead, they were present in the process in Poland - which should be noted - inspirational lectures on tapes and often very humiliating behavior of leaders. However, many times teachings were rather nice theory. Since then, however, what should be written - many positive changes.

4. There was no information or incident related to A.C. Bhaktivedant Swami's dissatisfaction with the sale of the temple in Hawaii.

Regarding the perception of Ms Tulsi Gabbard, I perceive her as an intermediate political manipulator. German soft-power is much more subtle and advanced.

As for the lectures of Chris Butler and issues of homosexuality or Islam, they were not particularly the subject of attention or interest. In the 1990s, Poland was still a fairly conservative state. Earlier, the communist regime organized a special surveillance of people with different sexual preferences. In SIF Poland, this was neither the subject of attention nor any incidents except for involvement in one demonstration in front of Parliament where the motto was to avoid falsehood, keep tolerance while maintaining social order which was recorded by foreign television.

I will deal with other issues from previous posts in stages and in detail.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2019 07:06PM by DaWatcher.

As far as Islam is concerned:

When it comes to Islam in Poland, there is currently a very large scientific and geopolitical awareness of the problem. Historically, Poland has been repeatedly attacked by the Ottoman Empire, fought regular wars to mention the victorious help at the Battle of Vienna. Tactical alliances with Muslim Tatars were often made. Nowadays, the Muslim community in Poland represents a calm, non-fanatic current and is fully integrated into society. They are not Wahabites, they are not Salafists. Albania is another example of harmony between 3 main religions in Europe. However, the countries of the former Yugoslavia are an unfortunate example. A large part of the Balkan states was part of the Ottoman Empire.

Finally, interestingly, when Poland was torn between the invaders - Prussia, Russia and Austria-Hungary, Turkey (the successor of the Ottoman Empire) remembered about Polish MPs.

The places where Butler physically stayed, like the PI, NZ, Aus, Hawaii and California were the places where a core "informed" discipleship and following evolved. These were the devotees that are now multi-generational famlies who have participated in assorted butler businesses, political campaigns and anti-minority efforts. Places like Poland began to have a small following after Vishnu Das and tapasya das went there as well as my mother, and opened centers for Butler. These were largely a naive following doing the typical mantra meditation, postural yoga, vegetarian feasts and kirtan at centers or publicly. And, due to the political climate of those areas, they were restricted in ever really opposing heavy anti-islam or anti-gay rhetoric. Not to mention, aside form the PI which is largely English speaking anyway, Poland was one of the only foreign-language places that had Butlers reach. It took time. Lectures needed to be translated, booklets translated etc. Due to the largely Catholic demographic, it was not that hard to convince people using Butlers Jesus/Krishna preaching tactics. Aside from devotees like Vishnu Das and Tapasya das, there is likely very few others that had exposure to the more aggressive and intimate lectures of butler where he went on literal psycho-babble rants against his close servants, old devotees, ISKCON, Islam and Homosexuals.

The recent evidence of those transcripts and tapes that has come to the foreground finally, should put any progressive, evolved, modern human in at least a skeptical stance toward butler and his missions/businesses/SIF. Progressive and tolerant ideologies like support for choosing and being with a same-sex partner, tolerance and acceptance of Islam as a valid and peaceful religion when practiced by sincere followers, are making there way to mainstream thought worldwide. Butler et al cannot hide behind years of preaching complete hatred and vile information about these topics, while pursuing political strength and hiding behind do-good programs like Sunday feasts, yoga and cleaning up beaches etc.

And that is just the surface. There is literally years of personal abuse by Butler toward loyalty devotees of his, close followers etc. He also lives nothing like a sadhu: Beachfront homes, yoga/business wife, countless businesses funneling multi-millions into his foundation and involvement in political affairs. He is arrogant and vile and has hid behind a thin mask of so-called Krishna consciousness and "hinduism". A guru has no business in these affairs let alone a Sanyassi in the Gaudiya tradition. It's unheard of and offensive to the core values of the faith they claim to follow.

Also, of huge concern is butlers very apparent germaphobic and hypochondria and paranoias/conspiracy theories and complete lack of respect for any scientific rigor and social evolution. An acharya is meant to adopt to the times and preach accordingly, according tot he traditions of vaishnavism. He lives in a self contained bubble. He hardly preaches publicly and makes next zero appearances—for YEARS. His devotees get chastised for washing his underwear incorrectly and not serving him the finest food. This is a narcissist and psychopath of the highest order. He lives in a world that revolves around himself and has built a personality cult around himself. If everyone left him right now he would literally implode with rage and anger. That is not a guru. A guru lives simply and humbly and asks for nothing and only gives practical spiritual advise. Lining your walls with tinfoil and living under heavy air circulation systems and wrapping your chair and mic in linen cloth and every inch of your body covered is hardly a "I am not the body" approach to spiritual humility and faith.

Butler preaches in spiritually vulnerable countries like the PI and Poland because it's an easy market. We were literally asked to distribute booklets of his on karma and reincarnation at cemeteries while people were mourning their dead. Kirtan was done in small villages where people lacked any formal education and literally believed in magic and witchcraft.

Devotees were regularly asked to donate and offer up their properties and homes to Butler. Businesses were handed over to Butler and many multi-million dollar botched projects of Butlers funneled tons of money to him and his. There are TONS of fake BS business fronts as well that funnel money for Butler and the Tulsi campaign. And finally, this is just the few things some of us ex-followers recall and know about. There is many shady business dealings, political dealings, issues with his past in ISKCON and his discipleship to Swami etc.

I'm an atheist and hardly care for the mythology go the cult beyond it's symbolic value in a spiritual practice, but kids were literally brought up believing in bogus Vedic astronomy and cosmology against all odds. He hated science, progress and realism of any sort. The man literally instilled an ideology of "Us vs. Them". We grew up feeling and believing that the world was a terrible dangerous place, that people outside our small group were demons and mayavadhis. That family and friends should be rejected or converted and that our utmost salvation was making sure Butler got a massage and his underwear properly laundered and steam cleaned.

And yes, kids were neglected, misguided, unloved, and abused. Labor and service was rendered with nothing more than a threat of displeasing the guru if we could not comply. Schools for kids were operated by unqualified people with no access to counselors and we were made to listen to vile descriptions of sexual acts, watch vile ant-homosexual videos featuring men having sex in the street and other biased and uninformed mind garbage. Kids as young as 9-14 and older were forced to write essays on lecture after lecture of total nonsense. We woke at 4AM, took cold bucket showers and sat in dark temple rooms half asleep chanting over and over with little to no concept of what we were really doing.

Take it or leave it, this group messed up a lot of people young and old beyond repair. Marriages were ruined and all communication problems were solved by grabbing your clicker and rambling off the mahamantra. Butler was not accessible to devotees, secretes and hidden agendas abounded at every turn and excommunication was the only thing awaiting someone who dared ask a question or suggest that something might be off. Basically we were asked to turn off our critical thinking.

Thank you Ian, as always a most concise and clear explanation of what Chris Butler and Tulsi Gabbard and the rest of the "Kailua Kons" are all about.
Highly suggest everyone post the above explanation when asked who or what is Chris Butler/Tulsi Gabbard.

Tulsi refers to all of the above (specific things that Ian wrote about) as misinformation, smears, untruths and anti-religious sentiments.

We know differently.
It is the truth.

Listen to the video in this article as one journalist finally asks the questions that SHOULD be asked. Video is located directly under the image of Tulsi Gabbard.

[news.wjct.org]


Quote:" On whether she thinks it’s inappropriate to ask a presidential candidate about growing up in a home with shrines to a man who is considered a cult leader

“I do. I think that is a very religious bigoted question to ask because it just shows the lack of even interest or understanding about what Hinduism, Vaishnava Hinduism, is about. Right now you’re taking misinformation smears and bigoted attacks from other media sources and trying to pose them as sincere questions and I think that’s offensive.”

On her father’s activism against gay marriage

“Once again Robin, I’m sorry to interrupt because you’re saying things that are just not based in fact and you’re repeating smears and things that are coming from other folks.”

On apologizing for the work that she did on behalf of her father

“Yeah, so ask me about my positions. Ask me about things that I’ve said and that I’ve done.”

On her religious practices

“Look, I don’t know how to seriously answer a question in the way that you’ve posed it because you’re not even trying to understand my own spiritual practice as a Vaishnava Hindu.

“Vaishnava Hinduism, the practice that I follow, is a monotheistic branch of Hinduism that is centered around love — love for God and love for others — and how best we can be pleasing to God through the practice of karma yoga, which means taking action to serve others, to protect our planet and to develop my own personal loving relationship with God.”

Jill Ryan produced and edited this interview for broadcast with Kathleen McKenna. Serena McMahon adapted it for the web.

This article was originally published on WBUR.org. Copyright 2019 NPR. To see more, visit [www.npr.org."]; End quote.

Thank You IanKoviak. I will relate to most of the issues later. For now quickly about Tulsi Gabbard.

1. According to teachings of Chris Butler, any action started in mood of passion or ignorance (rajas, tamas) will finally bring bad results, except situation - knowledge taken from Vedic filosophy - unless it is neutralized by a good sacrificial act.

2. The method used by Tulsi Gabbard indicates that shet is trained and the problem actually exists. However, it is obvious that she will change her mind more than once, so if one remains patiently to keep records of statements and beliefs - she very likely will withdraw from her previous statements and beliefs and all one has to do isto present then the statistics - credibility statistics.

3. As far as Vaisnava filosophy is concerned, recently appeared some articles published by other Gaudiya Vaisnava sanga's members that heavily criticize Tulsi Gabbard on the internet. It can be commented that in their criticism they went too far, you can feel the "party mentality", anger and the mood of the war between the sangas, described by Srila Bhaktivinod as very dangerous. An example below:

[prabhupadasrawtruth.com]

If this is to be a way to promote philosophy, it is difficult to call it a success. Anyway it is hard to tell what philosopy or religion she represents.

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We know differently.
> It is the truth.

Matter of proof/evidence.

> “Vaishnava Hinduism, the practice that I follow,
> is a monotheistic branch of Hinduism that is
> centered around love — love for God and love for
> others — and how best we can be pleasing to God
> through the practice of karma yoga, which means
> taking action to serve others, to protect our
> planet and to develop my own personal loving
> relationship with God.”

Actually Sri Caitanya's greatest emphasis was on the congregational chanting of the Holy Name, which was also emphasized by Chris Butler/Jagad(t) Guru. Not Karma Yoga, mentioned between other processes in Bhagavad Gita.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2019 09:40PM by DaWatcher.

Da Watcher- I am glad you noticed that because since the very inception of Chris's Con- he stressed BHAKTI YOGA and not Karma Yoga.

Quote:Matter of proof/evidence.

> “Vaishnava Hinduism, the practice that I follow,
> is a monotheistic branch of Hinduism that is
> centered around love — love for God and love for
> others — and how best we can be pleasing to God
> through the practice of karma yoga, which means
> taking action to serve others, to protect our
> planet and to develop my own personal loving
> relationship with God.”

Actually Sri Caitanya's greatest emphasis was on the congregational chanting of the Holy Name, which was also emphasized by Chris Butler/Jagad(t) Guru. Not Karma Yoga, mentioned between other processes in Bhagavad Gita." End quote.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As I mentioned, from the get-go, Butler was always preaching about Bhakti Yoga.
All the 'Devbots' parroted that very term. It was constantly used in describing what they actually did/believed in- for years.
Then suddenly- like Tulsi Gabbard's different and ever-changing opinions/beliefs-
it magically transformed itself into 'Karma Yoga'.

And thanks to the magic of the internet,
documents have been found that establish exactly when this change occurred.
In July of 2005, the Science of [fraudulent] Identity, filed amendments for their
non-profit organization. It was filed in the Department of Consumer Affairs in the State of Hawaii. Documents were filed on July 25, 2005 at 4:13 pm.

It bears the title of:

Amended and Restated
Articles of Incorporation

What follows is an interesting 'fairy tale' that purports to show what the Science of Identity wants to accomplish.
What SIF really does do is another story and soon in time you will see the criminality behind these benevolent words.

On page 3 under article "a" you will find one of the first uses of the term
"Karma Yoga" referring to the belief that Science of Identity practices.
Part of this statement says: "To teach and implement the philosophy and practice of Karma Yoga as taught in the Bhagavad Gita.

But it was article "b" that really got my attention. For it says:
"b) To train young people to provide themselves with the basic necessities of life and thereby free them from dependence on State welfare and assistance programs
and moreover to provide temporary shelter and job engagements for them while
they are in training program.

Now, let us translate the actual reality of this statement:

"To train young people (disenfranchised and susceptible) to provide themselves with the basic necessities of life and thereby free them from dependence on State welfare and assistance programs (however everyone I knew back in the 1980's were ON welfare and indeed were told to scam the system to the nth degree- in several different states!)
and moreover to provide temporary shelter (a warehouse or large house with several long time brainwashed devotees watching over the new future slaves) and job engagements (this means- NO PAID SALARIES- cleaning up after Butler and his family or running from beach house to beach house to clean the mess they have left, so they can walk over to another beachfront property and relax) for them while they are in training program (training to be obedient workers, obedient workers who do not question the great Guru

Of course there are/were other "job training opportunities" such as:
a) packing Wai Lana yoga mats (the little kids excelled at this "devotional service")
b) lining all the Guru's homes with tin foil
c) Making Chips galore (the Wai Lana brand), etc, etc, etc,

The laughs continue- look it up.
It would be a joke were it not so tragic for those who got caught up in this particular con job.


Now, a little (blue) birdie tells me that Tulsi Gabbard may yet again change her feathers- beware- she may be joining a new political party. Ordered by her master, no doubt.

I don't recall any official SIF Poland program aimed at providing work and retaining devotees in Poland to this day.

Once I heard that it was rather the individual concern of Tapasya das. As for other forms of employment, devotees developed private businesses in which they employed their brothers in faith in various forms. There were strange situations, however, when one of the initiates in the 90s expressed the view that since his business was spiritual, other devotees working in it should work for free, and this became a source of considerable confusion, gossip and disgust. Of course, there were many examples of solidarity assistance, but this was not an initiative of the board of SIF Poland. Simple, humble devotees help each other.

The most serious spiritual and business venture, the printing house, which did a lot of work in the form of printing leaflets, posters, etc., was created from the enormous commitment of devotees, parents' subsidies for the first machine, work often at night. Once there was even a bed staying at the front of the printing press machine. Devotees involved in the project did not earn enough money in the initial stages to earn a living, so they went trading in bazaars and supporting printing in this way - as additional work.

What was hurt, in the account of one of the people, one of the guests from the US, while in the printing house expressed such words:
"You should pay respect to the printing press because it is the mouth of your Spiritual Master"

Analytically, for the final effect you need the teachings of the Spiritual Master, devotees, their faith, work, machine and materials. Philosophically, as marginal energy, they - devotees, living entities, should stand higher than the dead machine - material energy.

This example is, in practice, deep materialism and utilitarianism. A printing machine, a specific tool is worth more than devotees and their devotion. Of course, their mouths that times were shut. They humbly endured insult and humiliation by one of the more significant initiated leaders.

As far as Karma Yoga vs Bhakti Yoga is concerned, official name of the religious association was Science of Identity Institute Chaiytanya Mission. It could hardly be karma yoga...



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2019 04:06AM by DaWatcher.

Da Watcher, am I to understand that your group had a printing press and different materials were produced such as leaflets, posters, etc.? Were these items then sold by the devotees and if so, where did the money actually go to? These items that were printed, were they under the banner (name or company) of the "Science of Identity Institute Chaitanya Mission" ?
And if this is what occurred- were there any taxes or business fees paid to the state or city in order to legally operate this "business" ?