A very good overview of IHOP, its history, beliefes, teachings, etc (entitled "Sampling the Cuisine at IHOP") can be found here:

[www.arcapologetics.org]

ARC wants $3 to download it but if you contact me I'll send you a burned copy for free.

Another good overview is here:

[signofjonah.wordpress.com]

"A heart for God":

It's all a matter of public record.

There is no constitution that provides for democratically elected church government at IHOP voted upon by the general membership.

There are no annually issued and independently audited financial reports with any meaningful and detailed disclosure.

Check it out and you find it to be so.

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zeuszor
A very good overview of IHOP, its history, beliefes, teachings, etc (entitled "Sampling the Cuisine at IHOP") can be found here:

[www.arcapologetics.org]

ARC wants $3 to download it but if you contact me I'll send you a burned copy for free.

Another good overview is here:

[signofjonah.wordpress.com]

I'm sure the reports of protesters is really going to bear accurate information. Please, explain to me the consistency of the logic of accepting their reports (which is mostly hearsay and contortion of words) compared to the reports of the people who are in favor of IHOP and have connections with them. What's the word for that again? Ah, yes: Hypocrisy. :wink:

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rrmoderator
It's all a matter of public record.

Yeah, I hear the phrase "google it" quite often when nobody has actual (and valid citations to quote. This seems basically the same.

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rrmoderator
There is no constitution that provides for democratically elected church government at IHOP voted upon by the general membership.

There are no annually issued and independently audited financial reports with any meaningful and detailed disclosure.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the first line. It sounds like your trying to bring democratic politics into a church.

As for the second part, what relevance does that have to a church being biblical? Where exactly does the Bible say "thou shalt file thy financial reports?"

You seem to be confusing politics and religion quite a bit.

I came here to offer you guys some genuine insight into the [i:4e3b6b54aa]real[/i:4e3b6b54aa] teachings of IHOP from someone who actually attends a church with connections to it. Apparently, that information isn't welcome, because nobody bothered to even ask a single question, but rather you both seek out biased information to support a viewpoint that they have already adhered themselves to. Never mind that I'm probably the only one here who's ever actually met Mike Bickle.

If you find a practice by IHOP to be in contradiction to the Bible, then bring it to attention, even to the IHOP staff. Mike is (dare I say) "anal" about telling people to check his teachings to the Bible. He doesn't claim to be a perfect man, and his fear for God invokes him to make it clear that he himself is only human, and like all other humans, prone to possibility of error.

Of course, I'm sure you guys already knew that. :wink:

God bless.

(I will still be around if there are any legitimate questions/concerns to be answered.)

Ironically, I have a question of my own regarding this:

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rrmoderator
I have received very serious complaints about IHOP from past participants, families and others concerned.

I would not recommend IHOP to anyone under any circumstances.

If IHOP is such a grave concern of yours, why is there no information on your website about them, especially considering the rate at which their beliefs are spreading through the US?

I'd actually be interested in these serious complaints you mentioned. I'm not above admitting I'm wrong, but only with validation.

No articles about IHOP have been archived within this Web site, but quite a few sites do have critical information about Mike Bickle and the so-called "Kansas City Prophets."

See the following Web sites as examples:

[www.pfo.org]

[www.deceptioninthechurch.com]

[www.bible-infonet.org]

[www.christiandoctrine.net]

[www.deceptioninthechurch.com]

First, I haven't read through the articles you posted much. I don't have internet connection at home, and I'm posting this from work (dangerous, I know!)

I did notice that much of the opposition to IHOP and Bickle is based on the Kansas City Prophets movement and the Metro Christian Fellowship, both things passed away.

Bickle stated in Charisma Magazine in 1993:
We had an elite spirit. That's become more and more real to me -- it's so repulsive.
We promoted mystical experience in a disproportionate way and it was disastrous.
We were careless in the way we communicated prophetic words. This was hurtful in a lot of cases.
We were wrong in the way we promoted the city church concept. I still believe in it, but now I believe it's a unity based on friendship.

He's just a man, he makes mistakes, and unlike the majority of Christian leaders, he actually can admit them. As a man, he's constantly learning, and like any reasonable person, his understand may change. The KCP movement was done in what I would call "Christian Infancy."

But like most of the world, people focus on error of man, and ignore the same man's correction of his error.

I'll have to get back later, but I thought I'd post this first.

I read a little more, but I remain convinced that Bickle has learned from his past (as any practical person would). I will discuss this later in this post.

The Doctrines of IHOP can be found [www.ihop.org]. I have noticed how many sites opposing IHOP go on about how IHOP adheres to the Manifest Sons of God theology, the Latter Rain, Dominion Theology, and Joel's Army. What they fail to realize is that the same name of these doctrines has various meanings, depending on your sources. (I found this out myself while researching them.) If they had checked the IHOP website, they might have gotten a clearer picture of the matter, specifically that they deny ALL extra-biblical teachings of these doctrines.

Manifest Sons of God Theology:
"WE DENY that we will experience the fullness of our inheritance as sons of God before Jesus returns."

The Latter Rain:
"WE DENY the distinctive doctrines that go beyond Scripture that are often associated with the Latter Rain theology that was popularized in the 1950’s."

Dominion Theology:
"WE DENY that the Church will take over all the governments of the earth before the return of Christ."

Joel's Army:
"WE DENY that Joel 2:1-11 describes the End-Time church."

They also mention their affirmations of those doctrines, and they explain their Joel's Army theology more specifically.

I would also like to point out how prophecy is now handled in contrast to the Kansas City Prophets Movement:
"We believe that the subjectivity of the prophetic ministry must be vigorously tested against the inspired and infallible Scriptures that God gave for doctrine, reproof, correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16). WE DENY that subjective prophetic experiences are equal to the inspired word of God. In other words, all personal prophecy must uphold and honor the Scripture. "
"We urge people to avoid giving others prophetic direction in the domestic areas of their life." This is what Bickle and others of the Kansas City Prophets movement were scrutinized for not doing, so it would appear he has made attempts to keep it from happening again.

Another area that gets misconstrued is the Tabernacle of David. People will falsely claim that IHOP believes that they are the restored Tabernacle of David (or something to that effect). However, their doctrine says this: " In the days of King David, he established a tabernacle that had singers and musicians who ministered to the Lord day and night. The prayer movement today is in the spirit of David’s Tabernacle. This means that the prayer movement will have some components of the Tabernacle of David, specifically pertaining to singers and musicians." ...
"The prophetic word Bickle received in May 1983 was that 'God would release 24-hour-a-day prayer [b:2a8a0b3fdb][i:2a8a0b3fdb]in the spirit[/i:2a8a0b3fdb][/b:2a8a0b3fdb] of the Tabernacle of David.' In other words, it would involve prophetic singers and musicians. Worship and intercession [b:2a8a0b3fdb]is not in itself the actual restoration of David’s tabernacle![/b:2a8a0b3fdb]"

As for the IHOP view of the end times, they start off with this:
"We do not ask anyone to quickly accept our views, rather we urge all involved with us [b:2a8a0b3fdb]to think for themselves[/b:2a8a0b3fdb] as they search the Scripture."

Now I ask you: Is asking your believers to think for themselves something a cult would say? Not at all. In fact, it's completely the opposite. Furthermore: "We urge all [b:2a8a0b3fdb]to refuse any ideas[/b:2a8a0b3fdb] that they cannot personally see in Scripture." (ref. Acts 17:11) That hardly sounds like the doctrine of a man who runs his church "like his own kingdom."

So why do they emphasize the end times so much? Let's see:
"We study the End-Times because the generation in which the Lord returns is the most written about generation in Scripture. Over 100 chapters in the Bible have the End-Times as their main theme. Scripture gives significant divine info about the End-Times. Jesus spoke more about the last generation of natural history than the generation that He was born in. Why? To prepare the Bride to be victorious in love and power during the most dramatic time in world history."

But no one knows the hour, right?
"We believe that that Lord may return within the life time of some people who are alive now. We do not know if the events leading to His return will begin in 5 years or 50 years. We assume that it is closer to 50 years than 5 years. We do not know because Jesus said that no one knows the day or the hour. However, Scripture [b:2a8a0b3fdb]requires those in the generation[/b:2a8a0b3fdb] that the Lord returns to know the prophetic signs and to respond appropriately." (Matt 24:32-33)

Their Interpretation of the Song of Solomon is of probably the greatest controversy. You may want to read it as well to learn what they *actually* believe. And you may want to approach it with a clean/holy mindset, or you WILL interpret it perversely. Many already have and hold it against IHOP (aka Strawman Fallacy). What's worse is that many actually hold such a perverse belief as their own. (I can give you examples, if you have the stomach for it.)

The last section on the Song of Solomon interpretation (referred to as the Bridal Paradigm sometimes, I think) begins "We are not to think of kissing Jesus on the mouth. This is outside the boundaries of God’s Word. [b:2a8a0b3fdb]We renounce[/b:2a8a0b3fdb] all interpretations of the “kisses of the Word” that come from [b:2a8a0b3fdb]sensual imagination.[/b:2a8a0b3fdb]"

That all being said, I think it best if we begin judging a man by who he is instead of who he was, and his church in the same manner.

Hey, I want to apologize for that stunt with the shirt. It was needlessly confrontational, non-constructive, and juvenile. That night I got thrown out during the praise&worship and so didn't even get to hear Bickle speak.

Still, according to my understanding of it, IHOP doctrine and practice is out of whack.

In what way is their doctrine innacurate? If you go through the link I posted, you'll notice more than just a few verses to back up their doctrine. The link you posted (the one that was free, anyway) does exactly what I mentioned in my last post - about recognizing they adhere to "a doctrine" without digging into which parts of that doctrine they reject. It also relied (as many people do) upon flawed logic and misinterpretation of Bickle's beliefs or statements.


(I just noticed I can't direct-link to the IHOP statement of faith. So if you go to www.ihop.org and click "Beliefs and Controversies" at the very top of the screen, third one over, you can get there.)

By the way, zeuszor, what was the conference you attended (including date)? It might be possible to get a transcript of the message (though I don't know for sure yet) if you're interested.