IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life for life
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 06, 2009 10:26AM
Here's a couple more seeds of...
IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life for life
[forum.culteducation.com]
Submodalities:
one can use submodalities from NLP to deal with internal imagery.
For example, if there are residual images of byron katie bouncing around in one's mind, you can use a technique from NLP to get rid of them.
You just imagine those images are on a old TV set. Then you mute the volume.
Then take the contrast/whiteness, and turn it all the way up, and completely WHITE-OUT any image with BK in it.
That can be combined with a Swish pattern, which is explained in NLP.
So anytime one thinks of BK in the future, you can just white-it-out, and replace it with something you prefer.
Of course, that is more for just residual images.
Timeline Rescripting:
is another techique, very powerful. You go back in your imagination to the time right before BK first "got you". So maybe right before the time she stared into your eyes for 20 minutes, etc. Then you allow that image to play out for a moment.
Then you have your current self from now, walk into that past imaginal scene, and yell STOP. Then your future self, explains to your past naive self what is happening in that moment. you play it out, the entire scene and drama, even arguing with BK and calling her on her bullshit to her face.
then once that is explained, you take your past self, and leave the seminar scene, forever. you permanently remove your past self from those seminars, coachings, parlors, etc.
You could even imagine yourself getting up in front of the other people there, and assertively explaining what happened, and why you are leaving the seminar, etc.
And you naturally express the real emotions you feel toward the perp, even anger and rage. Its only imagination, and research is showing its essential to play that out honestly.
So what is happening, are those past memories are being modified, and rescripted to get rid of the negative influences.
STORIES:
notice that BK repeats her official roach Story hundreds of times, until you can't stand it anymore. A person could construct a NEW story for BK, based on facts, and write it out. This new story, based on the facts of reality, is then repeated and learned better than the old story.
REPETITION:
these types of techniques have to be repeated many times, not just once. In IRRT, they talk about doing it 15-30 min a day, for 30 days, or longer.
If someone did that rescripting properly, for the extended time period, it could really work.
But just doing it once, is not going to stick.
Look at how BK works, she does things hundreds of times in repetition over years, as they know how this stuff works.
Eventually, over some time, she will pushed out of the consciousness, until she is but a tiny bad memory from the past.
IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life for life
[forum.culteducation.com]
Submodalities:
one can use submodalities from NLP to deal with internal imagery.
For example, if there are residual images of byron katie bouncing around in one's mind, you can use a technique from NLP to get rid of them.
You just imagine those images are on a old TV set. Then you mute the volume.
Then take the contrast/whiteness, and turn it all the way up, and completely WHITE-OUT any image with BK in it.
That can be combined with a Swish pattern, which is explained in NLP.
So anytime one thinks of BK in the future, you can just white-it-out, and replace it with something you prefer.
Of course, that is more for just residual images.
Timeline Rescripting:
is another techique, very powerful. You go back in your imagination to the time right before BK first "got you". So maybe right before the time she stared into your eyes for 20 minutes, etc. Then you allow that image to play out for a moment.
Then you have your current self from now, walk into that past imaginal scene, and yell STOP. Then your future self, explains to your past naive self what is happening in that moment. you play it out, the entire scene and drama, even arguing with BK and calling her on her bullshit to her face.
then once that is explained, you take your past self, and leave the seminar scene, forever. you permanently remove your past self from those seminars, coachings, parlors, etc.
You could even imagine yourself getting up in front of the other people there, and assertively explaining what happened, and why you are leaving the seminar, etc.
And you naturally express the real emotions you feel toward the perp, even anger and rage. Its only imagination, and research is showing its essential to play that out honestly.
So what is happening, are those past memories are being modified, and rescripted to get rid of the negative influences.
STORIES:
notice that BK repeats her official roach Story hundreds of times, until you can't stand it anymore. A person could construct a NEW story for BK, based on facts, and write it out. This new story, based on the facts of reality, is then repeated and learned better than the old story.
REPETITION:
these types of techniques have to be repeated many times, not just once. In IRRT, they talk about doing it 15-30 min a day, for 30 days, or longer.
If someone did that rescripting properly, for the extended time period, it could really work.
But just doing it once, is not going to stick.
Look at how BK works, she does things hundreds of times in repetition over years, as they know how this stuff works.
Eventually, over some time, she will pushed out of the consciousness, until she is but a tiny bad memory from the past.
Re: Byron Katie No Body Intensive, Ojai CA, May 24 to 29, 2009
Posted by:
swampseer
()
Date: April 06, 2009 11:39AM
Okay, this is seriously confusing. As I read BK's philosophy, she says we are all "innocent." And we are, therefore, being aged. But we are also "aging ourselves." I assume we are also "paining" ourselves and "sickening" ourselves. Is she "cancering" herself? is she basal-cell-ing herself? Didn't I read she got a facelift? Well, that makes sense: before she knew that her wrinkles were all her own (innocent) projection, she allowed herself to be aged and as soon as she knew better, naturally, she got that straightened out (so to speak...bad pun).
Talk about check-mate! This labyrinthine logic will leave you googley-eyed enough to send in your credit card number for this No-Body Intensive. This is perfect timing, too: about the only thing you're going to get the Baby Boomers to plunk down money for in this day and age is something that promises to reverse aging and ailments. They already feel guilty for everything that's wrong with themselves and the world. Just slap a little Katie-think on it...oh, yeah, that's the ticket. It's as bad as The Bible; you can prove anything with BK logic and then disprove it, too.
Call me a scientist. Call me a cab.
Talk about check-mate! This labyrinthine logic will leave you googley-eyed enough to send in your credit card number for this No-Body Intensive. This is perfect timing, too: about the only thing you're going to get the Baby Boomers to plunk down money for in this day and age is something that promises to reverse aging and ailments. They already feel guilty for everything that's wrong with themselves and the world. Just slap a little Katie-think on it...oh, yeah, that's the ticket. It's as bad as The Bible; you can prove anything with BK logic and then disprove it, too.
Call me a scientist. Call me a cab.
Byron Katie's School For The Work March '09, Guruphiliac
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:59PM
its interesting having a glance at the Guruphiliac thread about Byron Katie. Its the most active thread there, approaching 20% of all the posts in that forum.
[guruphiliac.lefora.com]
The original poster in that thread, posted some obviously honest, and thus very damaging information about the Byron Katie LGAT seminar. Even though they don't appear to have much experience with LGAT seminars, and were just reporting on what they saw happening to people falling apart in droves. (which is precisely engineered into these LGAT seminars).
One of the main things that all LGAT's do, from Landmark to PSI, to everyone else, is to CREATE CONFUSION around the seminar. That is one of the best things they can do, create confusion, and then tell people, 'try it for yourself". As they know, once they are in the tent, then the "experts" will take care of the job.
They always say, "its a powerful dangerous workshop, not for everyone" as that is a great salespitch.
Also, the label of "destructive cult", was actually created by the Guruphiliac. That is what HE named his forum on Byron Katie.
"Byron Katie — Is The Work a destructive cult?"
That phrase is actually meaningless, as "The Work" is not the cult, its bait.
That is like saying "is the vibhuti Ash from Sai Baba a cult?" No, its a cheap-trick to make people think he can do miracles.
The Work serves a similar function to the TM Meditation Technique, in terms of advertising. Why can Guruphiliac see that TM uses meditation as a trick, but not that The Work, is literally fulfilling the same organizational use? Its almost exact, even down to being "freely given", eliminate stress, etc.
Up to when Guruphiliac posted about Byron Katie, it was more about the damaging aspects of the Byron Katie LGAT seminars, and the cultish behavior of the inner circle. It was specifially AGAINST the idea this is some bald-headed bongo playing "cult" from 30 years ago. Obviously, its not, its a far more sophisticated LGAT structure.
also a certain "jgf75" at the Guruphiliac forum, makes some rather strange comments about Stephen Mitchell, about how he makes his income from books? LOL! That is rather amusing actually. The guy is married to BK, and thus 50/50 in her bidniz of making millions, doing his own LGAT seminars with her, co-writing, etc. So that might be a telling defensive sounding comment?
also, "jgf75" makes a comparison of BK with Starbucks coffee. very very strange. It could be an example of a person with literally zero awareness of LGAT techniques, or something else.
QUOTE from jgf75:
"The word "cult" has all kinds of connotations having to do with brainwashing people into giving up their lives and families, conforming to one rigid set of thinking, and generally isolating themselves from outside influences and giving over their will and sometimes possessions to the cult leader."
Well, guess what, even on that list meant to say BK is not a cult, BK hits on all points! People are getting divorced, doing The Work like robots, cutting themselves off from the outside world, repeating BK words over and over, and handing over huge amounts of money! So its kinda ironic.
the next paragraph, is either naive, or something else.
What "jgf75" is not seeing, is that all of those other cults were "voluntary" exactly like BK. Except BK is much more subtle and advanced.
"jgf75" then tried to dismiss the hundreds of FACTS as factoids. Very interesting.
When it fact, the foundations of EVERYTHING Byron Katie says range from at best an imaginal Story that is uncheckable, or outright bullshit. Name any checkable facts of the BK Story? There's almost nothing. That is deliberate, of course.
Then" jgf75" goes into saying there were some ex-criminals reformed by The Work who were at the Workshop? How did "jgf75" know that? Who told them?
getting dubious...to say the least.
But for example, white-collar crooks would LOVE the work. The victim is the one to blame, not them.
Any salesman would love it to use with clients, you can convince them of anything you want.
It also teaches there is no such thing as right or wrong, and no truth or reality! That is one thing not mentioned yet, is it a good idea to teach criminals to have even less of a conscience, and to detach?
The Work, is the last thing one should teach to criminals! They need to learn some Empathy for their victims. Its been shown that many "therapies" given to criminals, just make them more manipulative, and don't affect recidivism. A scary thought indeed.
As far as Landmark, and the others? How do they handle mental breakdowns? They don't care, that's how. And those who fight back get crushed by their legal team, unless they are really strong, and then they get a pay-off. That's reality, that's a fact.
So its hard to know if people are totally indocrinated into The Work, or just refer others to The Work as a Facilitator for-profit, and deny the damaging realities to themselves.
Also, of course, there are many who are just in it for the money, all LGAT's are full of salespeople, and they can make serious money on that phone all day. They can make thousands in a good day. Quite a lure.
but its interesting about Stephen Mitchell, kind of amusing really, that he "makes his money as an author". Those books he translated, would have perhaps paid for their own printing, if they are lucky.
Maybe someone will mention how he is married so gets 50% of everything, is doing seminars with BK, gets the profits direct from the books he co-wrote with BK, does fulltime promotion of BK on the internet, runs the BK Foundation, etc.
Byron Katie is his main gig. She is the star, he is basically Mr Byron Katie, in reality. (which he would not like very much!) But notice in the BK seminars, people are "taught" what an amazing writer Stephen Mitchell is...who added that to the curriculum?
:-) some of this stuff is amusing...
Mitchell also wrote books still sold about Seung Sahn, and was even groomed to take over the Seung Sahn empire, before the sex abuse scandals.
There is also an interesting question posed..."Is RandomStu paid to facilitate the work?"
Very interesting question to ask. Obviously not! He's not a facilitator.
He clearly doesn't know ANYTHING about it, as all he does is try to create a smokescreen using poker bluff tactics, like he tried to do here. The fact that RandomStu is NOT a facilitator of The Work, who denied he had any connection to them, makes it far more dubious.
All it takes is a phone call, and they can create confusion, where there is no confusion.
Inducing confusion is pretty much the #1 technique of byron katie as well.
It would not be a surprise at all, to find out one day some of these millionaire "Zen" people have some type of behind the scenes business partnership, where they own various Zen centers as a group. [forum.culteducation.com]
BK and Stephen Mitchell are connected with the other Zen centers as well, though Michael Katz, John Tarrant [forum.culteducation.com] Josh Baran, San Francisco Zen Center, Pacific Zen Institute, Kwan Um School of Zen, Stuart Resnick,
who else?
Stephen Mitchell has deep contacts in this faux-Zen world.
[guruphiliac.lefora.com]
The original poster in that thread, posted some obviously honest, and thus very damaging information about the Byron Katie LGAT seminar. Even though they don't appear to have much experience with LGAT seminars, and were just reporting on what they saw happening to people falling apart in droves. (which is precisely engineered into these LGAT seminars).
One of the main things that all LGAT's do, from Landmark to PSI, to everyone else, is to CREATE CONFUSION around the seminar. That is one of the best things they can do, create confusion, and then tell people, 'try it for yourself". As they know, once they are in the tent, then the "experts" will take care of the job.
They always say, "its a powerful dangerous workshop, not for everyone" as that is a great salespitch.
Also, the label of "destructive cult", was actually created by the Guruphiliac. That is what HE named his forum on Byron Katie.
"Byron Katie — Is The Work a destructive cult?"
That phrase is actually meaningless, as "The Work" is not the cult, its bait.
That is like saying "is the vibhuti Ash from Sai Baba a cult?" No, its a cheap-trick to make people think he can do miracles.
The Work serves a similar function to the TM Meditation Technique, in terms of advertising. Why can Guruphiliac see that TM uses meditation as a trick, but not that The Work, is literally fulfilling the same organizational use? Its almost exact, even down to being "freely given", eliminate stress, etc.
Up to when Guruphiliac posted about Byron Katie, it was more about the damaging aspects of the Byron Katie LGAT seminars, and the cultish behavior of the inner circle. It was specifially AGAINST the idea this is some bald-headed bongo playing "cult" from 30 years ago. Obviously, its not, its a far more sophisticated LGAT structure.
also a certain "jgf75" at the Guruphiliac forum, makes some rather strange comments about Stephen Mitchell, about how he makes his income from books? LOL! That is rather amusing actually. The guy is married to BK, and thus 50/50 in her bidniz of making millions, doing his own LGAT seminars with her, co-writing, etc. So that might be a telling defensive sounding comment?
also, "jgf75" makes a comparison of BK with Starbucks coffee. very very strange. It could be an example of a person with literally zero awareness of LGAT techniques, or something else.
QUOTE from jgf75:
"The word "cult" has all kinds of connotations having to do with brainwashing people into giving up their lives and families, conforming to one rigid set of thinking, and generally isolating themselves from outside influences and giving over their will and sometimes possessions to the cult leader."
Well, guess what, even on that list meant to say BK is not a cult, BK hits on all points! People are getting divorced, doing The Work like robots, cutting themselves off from the outside world, repeating BK words over and over, and handing over huge amounts of money! So its kinda ironic.
the next paragraph, is either naive, or something else.
What "jgf75" is not seeing, is that all of those other cults were "voluntary" exactly like BK. Except BK is much more subtle and advanced.
"jgf75" then tried to dismiss the hundreds of FACTS as factoids. Very interesting.
When it fact, the foundations of EVERYTHING Byron Katie says range from at best an imaginal Story that is uncheckable, or outright bullshit. Name any checkable facts of the BK Story? There's almost nothing. That is deliberate, of course.
Then" jgf75" goes into saying there were some ex-criminals reformed by The Work who were at the Workshop? How did "jgf75" know that? Who told them?
getting dubious...to say the least.
But for example, white-collar crooks would LOVE the work. The victim is the one to blame, not them.
Any salesman would love it to use with clients, you can convince them of anything you want.
It also teaches there is no such thing as right or wrong, and no truth or reality! That is one thing not mentioned yet, is it a good idea to teach criminals to have even less of a conscience, and to detach?
The Work, is the last thing one should teach to criminals! They need to learn some Empathy for their victims. Its been shown that many "therapies" given to criminals, just make them more manipulative, and don't affect recidivism. A scary thought indeed.
As far as Landmark, and the others? How do they handle mental breakdowns? They don't care, that's how. And those who fight back get crushed by their legal team, unless they are really strong, and then they get a pay-off. That's reality, that's a fact.
So its hard to know if people are totally indocrinated into The Work, or just refer others to The Work as a Facilitator for-profit, and deny the damaging realities to themselves.
Also, of course, there are many who are just in it for the money, all LGAT's are full of salespeople, and they can make serious money on that phone all day. They can make thousands in a good day. Quite a lure.
but its interesting about Stephen Mitchell, kind of amusing really, that he "makes his money as an author". Those books he translated, would have perhaps paid for their own printing, if they are lucky.
Maybe someone will mention how he is married so gets 50% of everything, is doing seminars with BK, gets the profits direct from the books he co-wrote with BK, does fulltime promotion of BK on the internet, runs the BK Foundation, etc.
Byron Katie is his main gig. She is the star, he is basically Mr Byron Katie, in reality. (which he would not like very much!) But notice in the BK seminars, people are "taught" what an amazing writer Stephen Mitchell is...who added that to the curriculum?
:-) some of this stuff is amusing...
Mitchell also wrote books still sold about Seung Sahn, and was even groomed to take over the Seung Sahn empire, before the sex abuse scandals.
There is also an interesting question posed..."Is RandomStu paid to facilitate the work?"
Very interesting question to ask. Obviously not! He's not a facilitator.
He clearly doesn't know ANYTHING about it, as all he does is try to create a smokescreen using poker bluff tactics, like he tried to do here. The fact that RandomStu is NOT a facilitator of The Work, who denied he had any connection to them, makes it far more dubious.
All it takes is a phone call, and they can create confusion, where there is no confusion.
Inducing confusion is pretty much the #1 technique of byron katie as well.
It would not be a surprise at all, to find out one day some of these millionaire "Zen" people have some type of behind the scenes business partnership, where they own various Zen centers as a group. [forum.culteducation.com]
BK and Stephen Mitchell are connected with the other Zen centers as well, though Michael Katz, John Tarrant [forum.culteducation.com] Josh Baran, San Francisco Zen Center, Pacific Zen Institute, Kwan Um School of Zen, Stuart Resnick,
who else?
Stephen Mitchell has deep contacts in this faux-Zen world.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and triggering childhood sexual trauma
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 06, 2009 03:43PM
according to the fan comments, John Davis from Korn wrote those lyrics, based on his life?
[www.sing365.com]
The very serious issue here, is you have someone, Byron Katie, with no experience or training in this area, using a song about violent childhood rape, childhood sexual abuse, to trigger those traumatic memories in her workshop attendees.
Many in the seminar audience have deep painful trauma about their sexual abuse as children, some people have all sorts of complex psychological barriers to protect them.
What you do NOT do, is to TRIGGER the massive flood of traumatic memories all at once.
That will lead to suicides.
As the terrible pain gets triggered, and it will not stop, you can't just turn it off.
Your entire mental structure can literally decompensate, as was shown in that other thread.
No sane therapist would EVER to anything like this, that would be the worst malpractice you could imagine. Sexual abuse is handled in a very strategic way, with 24/7 supports in place, etc.
If there are people with somewhat buried childhood rape abuse, triggering like this could destroy their entire psychological structure.
On top of this, then The Work makes these poor people blame themselves for it. This is the lowest of the low, much worse than the financial exploitation.
So even putting everything else aside, this one single technique being used here, is why no one should ever attend a Byron Katie workshop or seminar. Ever.
This one technique could ruin a person's life, and even lead to a suicide, due to the triggering of overwhelming terrible pain that can't be turned off.
[Anyone with suicidal thoughts, contact emergency services immediately] [www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org]
Read the THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com] to see what happens if you totally fall apart, and even if you die.
QUOTE: [forum.culteducation.com]
"I acknowledge that I am voluntarily assuming all risks associated with my participation at The School and voluntarily agree to accept any and all risks of injury or death..."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2009 03:50PM by The Anticult.
[www.sing365.com]
The very serious issue here, is you have someone, Byron Katie, with no experience or training in this area, using a song about violent childhood rape, childhood sexual abuse, to trigger those traumatic memories in her workshop attendees.
Many in the seminar audience have deep painful trauma about their sexual abuse as children, some people have all sorts of complex psychological barriers to protect them.
What you do NOT do, is to TRIGGER the massive flood of traumatic memories all at once.
That will lead to suicides.
As the terrible pain gets triggered, and it will not stop, you can't just turn it off.
Your entire mental structure can literally decompensate, as was shown in that other thread.
No sane therapist would EVER to anything like this, that would be the worst malpractice you could imagine. Sexual abuse is handled in a very strategic way, with 24/7 supports in place, etc.
If there are people with somewhat buried childhood rape abuse, triggering like this could destroy their entire psychological structure.
On top of this, then The Work makes these poor people blame themselves for it. This is the lowest of the low, much worse than the financial exploitation.
So even putting everything else aside, this one single technique being used here, is why no one should ever attend a Byron Katie workshop or seminar. Ever.
This one technique could ruin a person's life, and even lead to a suicide, due to the triggering of overwhelming terrible pain that can't be turned off.
[Anyone with suicidal thoughts, contact emergency services immediately] [www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org]
Read the THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com] to see what happens if you totally fall apart, and even if you die.
QUOTE: [forum.culteducation.com]
"I acknowledge that I am voluntarily assuming all risks associated with my participation at The School and voluntarily agree to accept any and all risks of injury or death..."
Quote
scrambledeggs
Actually the Korn song that is played at the schools is called "Daddy" [www.youtube.com]
Katie introduces it as written by "her friend John" who "doesn't do The Work".
Daddy lyrics [www.elyrics.net]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2009 03:50PM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and triggering childhood sexual trauma
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 06, 2009 04:03PM
if someone from the Guruphiliac forum sees the above, please feel free to link or cross-post a part of it.
People with sexual abuse in their childhoods, have a RIGHT to be warned in advance, of what is going to be done to them.
Notice the BK advertising page doesn't mention reactiviting your childhood sexual abuse trauma, which could wreck your life, or end your life, due to the improper, brutal and irresponsible way its done.
Someone could ask the BK supporters, what training or accreditation does BK have to activate sexual childhood trauma?
Answer: zero.
What accoutability does she take if your life collapses? Answer: zero.
What they are doing is beyond psychological malpractice and abuse.
No sane mental health person would be associated with this practice of large-group, childhood sexual trauma triggering and activation.
Its extremely damaging and dangerous, and could easily trigger suicides in the weeks and months following the seminar. Or people could just "fall apart" and not be able to function anymore, as has been reported already.
People with sexual abuse in their childhoods, have a RIGHT to be warned in advance, of what is going to be done to them.
Notice the BK advertising page doesn't mention reactiviting your childhood sexual abuse trauma, which could wreck your life, or end your life, due to the improper, brutal and irresponsible way its done.
Someone could ask the BK supporters, what training or accreditation does BK have to activate sexual childhood trauma?
Answer: zero.
What accoutability does she take if your life collapses? Answer: zero.
What they are doing is beyond psychological malpractice and abuse.
No sane mental health person would be associated with this practice of large-group, childhood sexual trauma triggering and activation.
Its extremely damaging and dangerous, and could easily trigger suicides in the weeks and months following the seminar. Or people could just "fall apart" and not be able to function anymore, as has been reported already.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Christa
()
Date: April 06, 2009 04:13PM
From The Anticult:
"Stephen Mitchell,...
Byron Katie is his main gig. She is the star, he is basically Mr Byron Katie, in reality. (which he would not like very much!) But notice in the BK seminars, people are "taught" what an amazing writer Stephen Mitchell is...who added that to the curriculum?"
Hmmm. To focus on just one part of your very thought-provoking post, I've been thinking about this. I'm not so sure that Mitchell minds being Mr. Byron Katie; would he mind being Mr. Betty Crocker?
I think of Katie as a product, (im)pure and simple. Someone with an ego the size I imagine Mitchell's to be, if an actual spouse outshone him, that might bruise his ego. But would someone necessarily be jealous of a product he helped to design? Is Bill Gates jealous of Windows? I'm not sure. Windows is his meal ticket; he created it and market tested it and decided what features it would have and what it would look like.
Given the changes we know have occurred in Katie, he can rightfully say he made her what she is today and she wouldn't be where she is without her. He might have all the power behind the scenes, where it counts, especially in a marriage. Whether he longs to be in the spotlight I can't say; it seems he does a little from the lavish praise for his (actually highly controversial) translations that has mysteriously found its way into the BKI "curriculum."
For sure he has the wrong form factor and user interface for the BKI target market, which seems to go for female idiot/savants with no credentials and no academic background. Perhaps the BKI millions help soothe his ego.
These gurus v.5.0, these post-modern gurus, they seem like products that have been carefully refined to attract various markets and demographics. Katie and Mitchell are like the darkside of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, a perfect team where the straight man runs the show behind the scenes.
"Stephen Mitchell,...
Byron Katie is his main gig. She is the star, he is basically Mr Byron Katie, in reality. (which he would not like very much!) But notice in the BK seminars, people are "taught" what an amazing writer Stephen Mitchell is...who added that to the curriculum?"
Hmmm. To focus on just one part of your very thought-provoking post, I've been thinking about this. I'm not so sure that Mitchell minds being Mr. Byron Katie; would he mind being Mr. Betty Crocker?
I think of Katie as a product, (im)pure and simple. Someone with an ego the size I imagine Mitchell's to be, if an actual spouse outshone him, that might bruise his ego. But would someone necessarily be jealous of a product he helped to design? Is Bill Gates jealous of Windows? I'm not sure. Windows is his meal ticket; he created it and market tested it and decided what features it would have and what it would look like.
Given the changes we know have occurred in Katie, he can rightfully say he made her what she is today and she wouldn't be where she is without her. He might have all the power behind the scenes, where it counts, especially in a marriage. Whether he longs to be in the spotlight I can't say; it seems he does a little from the lavish praise for his (actually highly controversial) translations that has mysteriously found its way into the BKI "curriculum."
For sure he has the wrong form factor and user interface for the BKI target market, which seems to go for female idiot/savants with no credentials and no academic background. Perhaps the BKI millions help soothe his ego.
These gurus v.5.0, these post-modern gurus, they seem like products that have been carefully refined to attract various markets and demographics. Katie and Mitchell are like the darkside of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, a perfect team where the straight man runs the show behind the scenes.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Susan
()
Date: April 06, 2009 04:48PM
I have found both of these authors to be extremely helpful but I wouldn't dream of attending their seminars because I've learned after being involved with a group of people once you do that then you then get caught up in a scene, and spiritual growth is ultimately personal. I found that Tolle's work is so close to the quick, in terms of showing us our ego, that he draws a backlash from within. So i found it constructive to exaine what's in a book that can make me so angry. If I'd gone to expensive seminars or got involved (heaven forgbid) with some group working with the material, I'm sure I'd have a lot more to blame than realising the uneasiness came from me. I find Katie's turnaround mechanism to be very effective and like Tolle's work, it's so straight forward, I can't see how I could find anything sinister in it. It's similar to a meditation I once read, all you say is: I treat my best friend like I treat myself ... if I do that for a while I grow uncomfortable and can't blame any weird cult for that.
My feeling, after a a long period of healing from terrible but insightful experience with a group, is that it's not cults I have to be worried about, but cultlish tendencies within myself. If I'm centred then everything is ok and no teachings (or my family:) have the power to freak me out. There is a flow and acceptance in my life which is important because even tho I have no intention to shell out for seminars or join a group, I have friends going thru those phases and I hear all about it whether I like it or not. So in one way, all this moaning about cults can been seen as a place where people need to place boundaries for themselves and it's important to focus on our own power, so we don't feel taken over this this stuff. But this acceptance came after a long period of denial and anger and my experience wasn't as bad as a lot of other people's so I don't mean to be trite. I'm posting to be supportive and constructive, its just that I know I will never make the same mistake again so I feel safe and strong.
As far as huge fees go, the grup I was involved with was of the opinion that they can charge whatever the market will bear. So once when a class was oversubscribed, they simply put their prices up, arguing that whoever really wanted to be there would pay. This approach is very "law of the jungle" and valid from that perspective. Unfornunately the group felt happy to intervene in the workings of the jungle when if came to other people's psyches and all manner of other issues so it was hypocritical from that perspective. They ended up ripping me off totally but hey I have learned from that and I never got too mad about that because I was more focused on recovering from the psychological headaches they gave me and figured I couldd always earn more money. Other groups who charge a lot and hold the philosophy that you will value what you pay for and all that may in fact be valid. But for me I've realised that I'm more relaxed about money so, if I were to pay for teachings, which i won't, I'd definately choose a gruop with a sliding scale etc. The choice is mine.
My feeling, after a a long period of healing from terrible but insightful experience with a group, is that it's not cults I have to be worried about, but cultlish tendencies within myself. If I'm centred then everything is ok and no teachings (or my family:) have the power to freak me out. There is a flow and acceptance in my life which is important because even tho I have no intention to shell out for seminars or join a group, I have friends going thru those phases and I hear all about it whether I like it or not. So in one way, all this moaning about cults can been seen as a place where people need to place boundaries for themselves and it's important to focus on our own power, so we don't feel taken over this this stuff. But this acceptance came after a long period of denial and anger and my experience wasn't as bad as a lot of other people's so I don't mean to be trite. I'm posting to be supportive and constructive, its just that I know I will never make the same mistake again so I feel safe and strong.
As far as huge fees go, the grup I was involved with was of the opinion that they can charge whatever the market will bear. So once when a class was oversubscribed, they simply put their prices up, arguing that whoever really wanted to be there would pay. This approach is very "law of the jungle" and valid from that perspective. Unfornunately the group felt happy to intervene in the workings of the jungle when if came to other people's psyches and all manner of other issues so it was hypocritical from that perspective. They ended up ripping me off totally but hey I have learned from that and I never got too mad about that because I was more focused on recovering from the psychological headaches they gave me and figured I couldd always earn more money. Other groups who charge a lot and hold the philosophy that you will value what you pay for and all that may in fact be valid. But for me I've realised that I'm more relaxed about money so, if I were to pay for teachings, which i won't, I'd definately choose a gruop with a sliding scale etc. The choice is mine.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Meadow
()
Date: April 06, 2009 05:34PM
More on ‘BK copyright’:
The format of and idea for ‘Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’ is in no way originating from Byron Katie and/or Stephen Mitchell. In 1991, a book by Greg Johanson and Ron Kurtz called 'Psychotherapy in the spirit of the Tao-te ching' was published by Bell Tower (it was reprinted by Random House in 1994). It’s a book on the subject of psychotherapy that’s been described as a recommended read for therapists and anyone in therapy who’s interested in spirituality. Stephen Mitchell knows this book by Johanson and Kurtz very well, since his translation of the ‘Tao-te Ching’ is used in it. After the publication of the Johanson/Kurtz book, Mitchell’s translation started selling and the Johanson/Kurtz book thereupon formed the exact outline for his and Byron Katie’s rewrite, published under 'their own title', ‘A Thousand Names for Joy: Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’.
The format of and idea for ‘Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’ is in no way originating from Byron Katie and/or Stephen Mitchell. In 1991, a book by Greg Johanson and Ron Kurtz called 'Psychotherapy in the spirit of the Tao-te ching' was published by Bell Tower (it was reprinted by Random House in 1994). It’s a book on the subject of psychotherapy that’s been described as a recommended read for therapists and anyone in therapy who’s interested in spirituality. Stephen Mitchell knows this book by Johanson and Kurtz very well, since his translation of the ‘Tao-te Ching’ is used in it. After the publication of the Johanson/Kurtz book, Mitchell’s translation started selling and the Johanson/Kurtz book thereupon formed the exact outline for his and Byron Katie’s rewrite, published under 'their own title', ‘A Thousand Names for Joy: Tao living in Harmony with the way things are’.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Jay Cruise
()
Date: April 06, 2009 06:47PM
The song Daddy was written by Katie's friend Jonathan Davis, lead singer of Korn, who she lists among her celebrity fanbase. Her son Robinson has produced every Korn album starting with their debut in 1994. He also worked on their first demo. So it is a lie to say Davis doesn't do "The Work".
Thanks for posting the song scrambledeggs. It is reminiscent of primal therapy which was invented by Aurthur Janov and popularized by John Lennon as primal scream therapy. Primal therapy is touted as a cure for neurotic disorders, including antisocial personality disorder, but has raised question as to whether it is credible form of therapy and has driven people to suicide.
The Janov Primal Center gives a dire warning that "This therapy is dangerous in untrained hands... and [can] drive someone to madness or suicide. The possibilities for abuse are limitless." Janov studied victims of childhood abuse or neglect and theorized that any form of defense is neurotic. Is this where she got her idea "victims are violent"?
[www.primaltherapy.com] Warning
"Evidence that expressing angry, violent behaviour does not drain it away but increases the chances of its recurrence has been presented in the scientific psychology literature for years." from the book Crazy Therapies
[en.wikipedia.org]
In a 1982 evalution by Ehebald and Werthmann:
"The authors examined the available literature and then came to the conclusion that primal therapy is not a valid therapeutic technique. They further emphasized that primal therapy is not a type of psychoanalytic therapy. In point of fact, primal therapy has seldom been discussed in the scientific psychotherapeutic literature...
Finally, the authors question the efficacy of primal therapy and especially its use by laymen."
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Thanks for posting the song scrambledeggs. It is reminiscent of primal therapy which was invented by Aurthur Janov and popularized by John Lennon as primal scream therapy. Primal therapy is touted as a cure for neurotic disorders, including antisocial personality disorder, but has raised question as to whether it is credible form of therapy and has driven people to suicide.
The Janov Primal Center gives a dire warning that "This therapy is dangerous in untrained hands... and [can] drive someone to madness or suicide. The possibilities for abuse are limitless." Janov studied victims of childhood abuse or neglect and theorized that any form of defense is neurotic. Is this where she got her idea "victims are violent"?
[www.primaltherapy.com] Warning
"Evidence that expressing angry, violent behaviour does not drain it away but increases the chances of its recurrence has been presented in the scientific psychology literature for years." from the book Crazy Therapies
[en.wikipedia.org]
In a 1982 evalution by Ehebald and Werthmann:
"The authors examined the available literature and then came to the conclusion that primal therapy is not a valid therapeutic technique. They further emphasized that primal therapy is not a type of psychoanalytic therapy. In point of fact, primal therapy has seldom been discussed in the scientific psychotherapeutic literature...
Finally, the authors question the efficacy of primal therapy and especially its use by laymen."
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:32PM
Anticult wrote:
"The Work" is not the cult, its bait.
This is worth printing in boldface type.
"The Work" is not the cult, its bait
Two, a thought about Ojai.
It is a lovely area to live.
However, for persons interested in such things, it is also quite closely associated with Jiddu Krishnamurti.
He lived until the 1980s--which means he died not so long ago.
He lived in Ojai for years, a school dedicated to his principles still exists, many people would visit Ojai for the sake of Jiddu Krishnamurtis memory, making Ojai, in a quiet way, a bit like Arunachala or Rishikish in India.
And, Jiddu Krisnhamurti's books continue to be immensely influential to this day.
So in addition to being an eminently pleasant place to live, Ojai would be a part of North America's cultic mileu...and would attract a rather well healed set of spiritual tourists.
And the association with Krishnamurti would give a sort of subtle, derivative legitimacy to other projects that might sprout up in the neighborhood.
"The Work" is not the cult, its bait.
This is worth printing in boldface type.
"The Work" is not the cult, its bait
Two, a thought about Ojai.
It is a lovely area to live.
However, for persons interested in such things, it is also quite closely associated with Jiddu Krishnamurti.
He lived until the 1980s--which means he died not so long ago.
He lived in Ojai for years, a school dedicated to his principles still exists, many people would visit Ojai for the sake of Jiddu Krishnamurtis memory, making Ojai, in a quiet way, a bit like Arunachala or Rishikish in India.
And, Jiddu Krisnhamurti's books continue to be immensely influential to this day.
So in addition to being an eminently pleasant place to live, Ojai would be a part of North America's cultic mileu...and would attract a rather well healed set of spiritual tourists.
And the association with Krishnamurti would give a sort of subtle, derivative legitimacy to other projects that might sprout up in the neighborhood.
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