Quote
JCgoon
Maybe Nick should allow Brian to start posting on this site again in order to help clear this matter up?

No thanks, I am not interested in entering into any kind public dialog with DM or any of his people. Been there, done that.

DM is welcome to participate, but Brian is not. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. "Free discussion" my foot. It's one of the very few things that I actually agree with him about.

It'd do no good anyway, and would be a wasted effort. Even if Nick invited me to participate there again, I'd not. What's the point?

Like I said before, the clique on "the other side of the tracks" does not like this forum, but at least it's well-moderated and RR's not asleep at the wheel.

How else to manage people like the trolls, the Split crew, dribble being posted every 5 seconds, and participants who contribute nothing other than ad hominem attacks and annoying background noise, other than by banning them from participation?

It's a "lost cause" as long as anybody feels obliged to welcome the likes of DM for condescending to appear on one of these forums. Otherwise, this all becomes a farce.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 06:22AM by zeuszor.

Dave McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') has finally decided to comment on the incident involving paedophile Bruce who was working with the JCs in India. I put a couple of questions to him. Here is the exchange.

Quote
Bryan Apollo
You allowed a convicted paedophile to join the JCs India branch, home to some of the world's most vulnerable children and he was provided with books to sell which are appealing to children. You done this with the knowledge that any Westerner in India will have hordes of children following them around. This resulted in children being sexually abused.


Do you have any regrets?

Would you do the same again?

Quote
Dave McKay
Okay, now we are getting closer to facts. I'll start with the last two lines first: yes, obviously I regret having let Bruce work with us at all. No way would I let him work with us again. And if there were any other known pedophile wanting to work with us, and wanting to change, you bet I would have that person watched even more closely. Now, do you want to ask Kevin the same questions, since he was the second-in-charge, and he was in on every stage of the decision-making with regard to this.

Note how Dave at no point shows any remorse over the actual abuse itself. He only says he regrets having let Bruce work with them. The impression i'm getting is the only regret Dave has is the bad publicity this incident has attracted. Surely in a situation like this with someone trying to clear their name the first thing they would do is show some sympathy and compassion towards the victims, but no, absolutely nothing, not even a mention.

He then goes on to say that he would happily welcome another paedophile into the cult (a cult who work regularly with children) but he would have the person watched even more closely. Well i'd certainly hope he'd be watched even more closely as Bruce clearly wasn't watched closely enough. Bruce was sent out in a two man team in which time he was able to abuse several children. The fact Dave would even contemplate welcoming another convicted paedophile into the cult deeply concerns me. It has already been proven that the JCs cannot be trusted to monitor a paedophile. Also note how at the end of his quote he tries to deflect attention away from himself. It's everyone elses fault with this guy!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 08:33PM by Apollo.

'It's everyone elses fault with this guy!'

That statement covers just about everything he has ever written or preached, his entire M.O.
The whole world is wrong and only Davejc, the anointed one, has the right answer to any question ever raised.
No wonder he feels persecuted, the world just refuses to recognise or to understand his genius.

Most of us go through a similar phase growing up, where the world just refuses to understand or acknowledge our 'specialness', but with time and experience sanity usually prevails and we can come to terms with being just another fallible human being.
Knowing this you can see why it is imperative for Davejc to form his own insular group of dedicated believers in 'the world according to Davejc'--without that coerced support he would find his self-appointed position as 'anointed one' completely unsustainable.

His little group is there to protect himself and his worldview from the complete derision of the wider--and wiser because more realistic-- world.
He needs his supporters--even if they are self-created sock puppets--far more than his supporters need him.

I do hope that the 'graduate' JC's are beginning to realise this.

Again, not a pity-plea for 'poor' Davejc.
Since we all have to come to terms with our human frailties one way or another, why waste pity on someone who has dedicated a lifetime, at enormous cost to others, to avoiding this natural human maturation process?

The main issue here is that there is someone who has sexually molested two young girls still at large within the community. Instead of getting him help through the proper channels , the JC's are still willing to be complicit in this risk.

From Dave's statement about accepting another sex offender into the community he has validated that the JC's are still very much operating.

They have admitted that there is a paedophile at large within their group and their current position is that they are willing to protect him regardless of the risk to innocent children.

I'm not interested in any statements of remorse from Dave. Actions speak louder than words.

Good to see you here, hello.

My main frustration with the XJCs has always been that, when all is said and done, far more appears to be said than done.

It is a shame when certain people allow their self-righteous arrogance and intellectual snobbery to get in the way of common sense.

Unfortunately, these are learned behaviors and they may take some time to modify.

There seems to be a desire from certain quarters to “write” the wrongs, rather than right the wrongs.

If guess a lot depends on whether you believe the Jesus Christians have always been a cult that was born out of the Children of God or you hold a differing view. Perhaps that everything was okay up until the so called "Split"?

I say that the McKay group was doomed from the beginning, simply by virtue of the fact that DM was the one who started it.

In other words, it was a destructive cult from day one simply by virtue of DM's personality. He deliberately set out to start a cult of his own.

However, it is a shame the old "lynch mob" cliché was brought out when discussing the genuine concerns you raised, hello.

Assisting Dave and his associates to further demonize you, is not really helpful. I have never known you to suggest burnings at the stake, or lynchings.

My take, is that you are simply looking for a demonstration of some more practical measures that go beyond discussion.

Perhaps you could help by suggesting a few practical steps that you feel we could take? What's your plan?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 11:37PM by zeuszor.

Any known criminal activity should be reported to the proper authorities (local police and child protection services).

The issue is not getting the offender help, but rather protecting children.

Contacting Takatifu Gardens directly will be of no use. The contact person for that property is a member of the JCs.

First of all, hello, do you know who the offender is?

And if you do, I do not think it'd be out of line for you to name him publicly. But that's just me. I say, "out" the offender if you know his identity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 11:53PM by zeuszor.

To whom it may concern:

If someone suspects that something is going on regarding child abuse and/or neglect they should not state it as fact, unless they were a witness to the abuse personally.

And if they did witness abuse, it should be properly reported to the police and/or child protection services in that locality.

It is important to make distinctions, i.e. suspect as opposed to witness abuse. And also cite the sources of information, etc.

Unfounded accusations are not helpful.

Quote
zeuszor
Check this out, from "Over concerned mother":

[welikejesus.com]

This is the "over sensitive mother" writing:


The member in question, let's call him "X", molested his girlfriend’s two daughters while living with them and their mother. I am not sure of his exact age at that time, he was at least 21, and he was a sexually active adult. When I was a JC member, I spent a lot of time with "X". He often went on outreach with me and my son.One time, I was on outreach with "X" , and another member named Monty. "X" had confessed to Monty that he had molested these two girls. Monty asked "X" to confess to me about two girls. The reasons that Monty had asked him to confess to me was that "X" was being extremely affectionate with my son .Monty was concerned enough that he fasted for 3 days before confronting "X" and asking him to tell me. Anyhow, at Monty's insistance, "X" confessed, and I got very upset and asked that we go right back to the base. Dave and Cherry were in town and I wanted them to know.

We talked about things with Dave and Cherry back at base. In the manner typical of pedophiles, "X" said that he hadn’t hurt the girls and had just wanted to make them feel good. He also said that he had molested them while they were sleeping. (At the time it sounded like it had only happened once but in later discussion he admitted to inappropriately touching them more than once.)

In the discussion, Cherry was very helpful, she jumped on "X"s comments about making the girls feel good and told him that was NOT right or acceptable. Dave’s attitude wasn’t what I expected it to be. He felt that Monty, Cherry and I were over reacting. He also said that he didn’t think Monty should have asked "X" to confess to me. A few people had noticed that "X"'s behaviour towards my son was inappropriate. Cherry even said that even though nothing serious had happened yet...she felt that things were heading that way.

This all occurred just a short time before I was scheduled to leave my children at the base and go to help someone who was donating a kidney. I was concerned about "X" being there with my children when I was out of town. So, "X" was asked to leave the base for the whole time that I was away. I am not sure that I would have been afforded this consideration if Cherry wouldn't have been there. I'm pretty sure it was her idea that he leave while I was away.

Dave mentioned in his post, leader's who were discussing the issue. Well, I was the leader in the US base at that time. I was not only involved but I instigated the discussions.The discussions that I was party to were more to do with the issue of me being "overly protective" of my children, though. I think a few emails went back and forth between Dave and "X" as some sort of "counseling". It was also suggested, I think by Cherry, that "X" play with the dog more instead of being affectionate with my son. I am not aware of any other "therapy" being offered to "X".

Also, within weeks of the problem coming to light, Dave insisted that my son move out of the "family" bedroom that we had and into one of the "guys" rooms. I didn't want my son, who was 6 at the time, to sleep in a room with grown men. Especially after finding out about "X"'s past. Dave, in his usual manner, pushed and pushed on the subject. I even left the community with my kids for a couple of days, without permission, because I was so upset. This particular grievance ended up being "witnessed' by two women who had been in the group a long time. They tried to be sensitive, but in the end agreed with Dave that I was just being overly protective and my son should sleep in a room with the guys. I remember one of them saying, about the incident with "X" and the girls, that they probably weren't damaged seeing as they were sleeping.

It is clear to me from the above post, as well as others on this site, that Dave continues to be a hypocritical liar! He knows what happened and yet wants to belittle me and label me an "over sensitive" mother. I make no apologies. Parents are meant to protect their children. I'll go ahead and admit it now... I feed and clothe them too.

BTW, I have talked with my children and it seems that nothing of a sexual nature happened to them in the group.Thank God! In my mind, this does not excuse Dave's lack of concern for children inside and outside of the group.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 12:08AM by zeuszor.

Quote
rrmoderator
Any known criminal activity should be reported to the proper authorities (local police and child protection services).

The issue is not getting the offender help, but rather protecting children.

My sentiments exactly Rick.

However , what is gleaned from the whitewash of Dave's rhetoric is deliberately confusing. According to him , ' x ' reported himself to the police - but they did not feel that it was important. We've not been shown any evidence of this. Exactly what police station, and where? Who were the officers involved?

I have a very dim view of the ' facts' as presented by Dave.

Apparently ' x' wrote his ex girlfriend a letter. She was understandably angry but decided not to press charges.( according to Dave.)

Where is the evidence?


I do not know who ' x ' is.

My questions are ;

how long after the abuse was the incident reported . Was it reported to the local authority? Or did the incident happen in Australia for example but reported in the US? ( If it was reported ).

Did the girlfriend write a letter back or make a phone call? If so- did a fellow JC coerce the ex- girlfriend into not pressing charges- ie ' he's a changed man'. Have her children received counselling?

Brian- it may be prudent of you to keep a record of everything concerning these three incidents. There is testimony on all three sites. Especially Xenophone's testimony and Dave's own record ( plus Kevin.) Make sure you get everything.

There has been a major whitewash here.