Quote
Stoic
Here is the link to hello's demand for action:

[jcs.xjcs.org]

A toast to hello! Salut!

It seems that some on the xJC site are confused regarding what constitutes a cult and are still under Davejc's influence in loosely defining such things as cults to suit one's own purpose. Davejc's line is that a cult is any group you dont like.

Here, to dispel any doubt, is Lifton's criteria:


1. “Milieu control,” which Ofshe describes as the control of the environment and communication.

2. “Mystical manipulation,” which Ofshe explains as emotional and behavioral manipulation done through the guise of group beliefs and practices.

3. “The demand for purity,” or what Ofshe describes as demands for absolute conformity to behavior as prescribed and derived from the group ideology.

4. “The cult of confession,” what Ofshe sees as the obsessive demands for personal and group confession, which ultimately render individual members completely vulnerable, transparent and without a sense of individual privacy.

5. “The sacred science,” which Ofshe explains as agreement that the group ideology is absolutely perfect, faultless, or what Lifton calls its ultimate vision for the ordering of all human existence.

6. “Loading the language,” explained by Ofshe as the manipulation of language often characterized by thought terminating clichés, which substitute for critical and analytical thought.

7. “Doctrine over person,” further described by Ofshe as the reinterpretation of human experience and emotion as seen through the lens and according to the terms of group doctrine.

8. “The dispensing of existence,” which Ofshe sees as the classification of those not sharing the group’s beliefs as inferior and not worthy of respect.

Distinctions are then must be made between the process of coercive persuasion or thought reform and other forms of persuasion such as education, advertising, propaganda and indoctrination.


[www.culteducation.com]



Here is the specific xJC expression of confusion:

[jcs.xjcs.org]

"Cult" is not inside the JCs or outside the JCs.
"Cult" is an attitude. Where political ascendancy takes pride over a search for the truth, and a respect for one's neighbour. Where grandstanding and points-scoring matters more than honesty and humility.

Those brave souls in the JCs who have stood for the truth despite opprobrium from others are no more in a cult than any other person.

If any brave souls inside the JC's stood for the truth despite opprobium from others they very quickly found themselves no longer inside but outside of the JC's---so in that sense it is true, they were no longer in a cult. But it is that very behaviour, the inability to tolerate either truth or a person insisting on it against the doctrine of the charismatic leader that points a finger of suspicion that the organisation is indeed a cult under the accepted definition.
The JC members are in a cult as long as they are blindly obeying the directives of the leader before employing their own critical thinking as individuals.

Myself, I happen to favor Hassan's BITE thought-reform model.

[www.ex-cult.org]

I. Behavior Control

1. Regulation of individual’s physical reality

a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations

2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors

5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).

5. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

6. Rigid rules and regulations

7. Need for obedience and dependency
II. Information Control

1. Use of deception

a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don’t have time to think

3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

4. Spying on other members is encouraged

a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

6. Unethical use of confession

a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution

III. Thought Control

1. Need to internalize the group’s doctrine as "Truth"

a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)

2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.

a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in "tongues"
f. Singing or humming

5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful
IV. Emotional Control

1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person’s feelings.

2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader’s or the group’s.

3. Excessive use of guilt

a. Identity guilt

1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions

b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt

4. Excessive use of fear

a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one’s "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval

5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader’s authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.

a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group’s perspective, people who leave are: "weak"; "undisciplined"; "unspiritual"; "worldly"; "brainwashed by family, counselors"; seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.

Yep, that covers it as well.

Quote
Stoic
If any brave souls inside the JC's stood for the truth despite opprobium from others they very quickly found themselves no longer inside but outside of the JC's---so in that sense it is true, they were no longer in a cult. But it is that very behaviour, the inability to tolerate either truth or a person insisting on it against the doctrine of the charismatic leader that points a finger of suspicion that the organisation is indeed a cult under the accepted definition. The JC members are in a cult as long as they are blindly obeying the directives of the leader before employing their own critical thinking as individuals.

This says so much, in so little space, that it'll take me a good while in order to distill the subtleties of its meaning. You Stoic, have mastered art of achieving maximum communication, yet using minimum verbiage. My compliments.

It's really hard to know what they are trying to collectively achieve over there. I think each has their own individual gripes and are basically pointing out the error of DM's ways, while trying to respect that Kevin and the rest of the siblings are still DM's family.

They do appear to be trying to "speak the truth in a spirit of love" so that perhaps members may listen to what they have to say and might start to question DM and start thinking, "am I in a cult"?

If members don't perceive ex-members as enemies, they might be more inclined to listen. I get it.

As I have always said: it has always been my more agenda to try and undermine the JC's ability to recruit anybody new, and not so much to try and persuade those who are in, to come out.

XJCs seem to me to be concerned with little other than their own self-interests.

They all have some personal interest in maintaining some kind of relations with DM.

It's really hard to make sense of it all sometimes. That is one of the reasons I have always tried to maintain some kind of communications with the XJC people. I feet if we all engaged in some truly "free discussion" and off the record, then we can know where we are all at, and could try to ensure that nobody is stepping on anybody else's toes.

But as we all know, that approach was rejected and the rest is history.

That is just the sort of intelligent contribution you could expect from "Hello" too!

....a warm and caring individual, if ever there was one!

Hello put some really good questions forward. It really is about time we got some answers.

It would be in McKay's best interests to provide proof that ''X'' was reported to the authorites and has received the appropriate treatment. If he is unwilling to provide that proof then there must be a reason why. My guess is ''X'' was never reported to the authorities or given the appropriate treatment.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 12:58AM by Apollo.

You can't trust anything McKay says to be true.

Keeping that in mind, why should we believe that anybody left the cult before the "graduation?"

I am still annoyed about the "Bruce" matter. "Bruce" may just be a name they made up, instead of using X as was done with the current case. Therefore, we can't locate any further info on him.

Picture this: you go to India on a vacation, and upon your return to the US you immediately go to a police station and say, "while I was away, I masturbated a young boy on a train."

What are they going to say, "Okay, we believe you, ten years in jail, here you go!"

There surely would have to have been an investigation and a complainant or complainants i.e., the children who were abused?

I guess in "Bruce's" case, he was a previously convicted pedophile, but even so, there would have to had been some corroboration and the offense fairly serious to get ten years in an Australian jail.

If the guy was imprisoned, why not release the details?

If we could get the details of the "Bruce" case, it would strengthen our argument regarding the more current case.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 03:09AM by zeuszor.

I agree 100% zeuszor and that's why we need to see proof.

People like Blackhat are being extremely naive if they feel they can take McKay's word for anything.