Hmm...well I would have to tentatively agree with Zeuszor there, Apostate.....

.... both Zeuszor and I have been outcast as "lepers" for some time....hence there wouldn't seem to be a great deal that either of us would actually stand to lose, from Kevins's (or any one elses') disdain....I've certainly been off those "Christmas card list" for several years...the decison to vacate this board was due to my presence on it, wasn't it?

....Guess I'll just have to learn to live with the loss of those many "social calls" from other former members...

(....in my case, it will of course only make me "worse" from your perspective as I'll have no need to "moderate" my opinions. to accommodate the feelings of others...something I have attempted to do, even if you can't believe so....or think not particularly successfully... )


Naturally there are a lot of strong feelings held very intimately by those who have been subject to McKays predation (I do think Nicks' "rock spider" moniker captures David nicely!) hence there may not always be a "nice, polite" forum, either on this site or elsewhere....I agree with you Apostate(?), that "personal space" should be respected (hence I for example, don't belabour the point that Private Eyes was a Godsend, who should have been treated with far more respect from some, than he was....I just allow others the freedom to hold their own opinions...)

...I have come to be increasingly persuaded by Zeuszor though that David McKay is basically "washed up" as a cult leader...sure this site (to which we owe Rick Ross an enormous amount of gratitude) needs to continue a few more years yet....and David may yet find another young life or two, to dupe....(Zeuszor as you may have seen, venturing the opinion that he's not even capable of that any more....)

But really David is largely "dead" already....sure he'll tell the few reamining troops that it's all part of "God's plan". "testing their faithfullness" as he has lied for years....but it'll be an increasingly hollow victory for him, toying time after tedious time, with those few souls he has manage to entrap, over and over again.....


I acknowledge that all things are possible for God (i.e. miraculously, a genuinely contrite McKay),

however I don't believe that God chooses to do all those things that are "possible" for him...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2010 04:52PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

(Romans 9) 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2010 01:19AM by Oerlikon.

Introjection involves misunderstanding that what is coming from outside as coming from inside. It is the opposite of projection. In its benign form it involves identifying with important others. Children take in attitudes of teachers, heros, and significant people in their lives. Many long to be like mommy and daddy. In its extreme forms, is very destructive. The most notorious form in psychoanalytic literature is 'identification with the aggressor" where the victim takes on behaviors of the perpetrator in order to feel less helpless and more powerful. The victim in effect, becomes one with the aggressor. Another maladaptive situation occurs when one is unable to move past a death due to a deep attachment to the departed. The result is sometimes permenant depression as the person feels diminished as if part of the self has died. (An example from literature would be Mary Shelley, who was unable to overcome her identification with her deceased mother and wrote almost exclusively about death, deterioration of the human body, and grief, in her early years.) Another example would be the case of a parent taking on the mistakes of their child as a reflection of their own lack of competency. This also implies boundary distortion.

[guiltedgirls.tripod.com]

Dear Zeuszor,

Thank you for the "note"....I must say that I am really appreciate being able to benefit from the quality of the observations you are able to make, in part due to your fascinating studies...(I am envious that I do not currently have the opportunity to do the same)...

A thought that occurred to me recently was in relation to why David even has the remaining small "stable population" on entrapped souls that he commands....

I suspect it may actually be a "fortutious" (for David!) consequence of his followers not having to physically share living quarters with the man.....one of the most unpleasant aspects of my time in the JC's was being subject to Davids vindictive "micro-mangement"...living with the man it was unavoidable to observe exactly what a "brutish" apostle he really was....

It would be far more humane of course, to be trapped in a "jail" where you are a world away from the tormenting "jailer"...just you and the other inmates(...and I certainly remember fondly some of the moments I shared with the other members of the "community" when I was living with them)....hence "life" (if you can call it that) for the individual JC's in America, Kenya or England is probably "tolerable enough", telling yourself all the "sacrifices" are somehow worth the "reward" in heaven you think that you are laying up for yourself....

I suspect that were the JesusChristians to be "united" in one abode, the rate of "disciple leakage" would rapidly rise...

You are welcome, Malcolm. And thank you for the compliment. I get a lot out of reading your insights into the matter as well, and highly value your perspective. Thank you for your friendship.

Here's something interesting I found this morning:

[www.eastleighnews.org.uk]

Eastleigh shoppers, well used to having to dodge canvassers selling charity subscriptions, had a new hazard to sidestep yesterday in the form of representatives from minority Christian sect the ‘Jesus Christians’ who were working the streets spreading their message by trying to interest passers by in copies of their promotional DVD.

Not many people may have realised the extent the religious groups followers are prepared to go in order to show their love for their fellow man.

The JC’s as they are known, are referred to by the media as the ‘Kidney Cult’ due to their promotion of altruistic kidney donation. Many of the group members have been reported as having undergone renal surgery to donate their kidney to a needy stranger.

Founded in Australia by Dave McKay, they are strange antipodean mix of 60’s hippy commune, apocalyptic evangelical Christians and professed hard core recyclers. Group members reject today’s materialistic consumer culture preferring to rummage through waste bins for food and driving around the country in eco friendly camper van powered by old chip fat.

Eastleigh shoppers, well used to having to dodge canvassers selling charity subscriptions, had a new hazard to sidestep yesterday in the form of representatives from minority Christian sect the ‘Jesus Christians’ who were working the streets spreading their message by trying to interest passers by in copies of their promotional DVD.

Not many people may have realised the extent the religious groups followers are prepared to go in order to show their love for their fellow man.

The JC’s as they are known, are referred to by the media as the ‘Kidney Cult’ due to their promotion of altruistic kidney donation. Many of the group members have been reported as having undergone renal surgery to donate their kidney to a needy stranger.

Founded in Australia by Dave McKay, they are strange antipodean mix of 60’s hippy commune, apocalyptic evangelical Christians and professed hard core recyclers. Group members reject today’s materialistic consumer culture preferring to rummage through waste bins for food and driving around the country in eco friendly camper van powered by old chip fat.

“We are trying to get people to start think about their attitudes towards money and the way they treat each other and about the environment” said Kim as she tried to sell me a copy of the DVD.

“We do this by becoming involved in live organ donation, permaculture, freeganism and teaching English in developing countries”

“We need people to consider making radical changes if we are serious about making the world work.”

The JC’s have hit the headlines several times recently. They were the subject of a C4 documentary ‘Kidneys for Jesus’ by award winning writer and film maker Jon Ronson (author of ‘The men who stare at goats’).

Dave McKay also appeared with his supporters on an episode of the ‘Jeremy Kyle Show’. The abrasive chat show host confronted them with allegations of abduction and brainwashing which resulted in Dave McKay walking off stage.

A ‘Jesus Christian’ couple have also taken part in TV reality show ‘Wife Swap’.

Eco-warriors, sincere Christians or sinister cultists? What do you think?

Hmm...thanks Zueszor, an interesting clip (poor David, now "reduced" to scrounging for media attention in a local paper...something that otherwise, was always somehow "beneath" him on other occasions....)

....the lie that they actually represent "Christ" and not simply "David" is easily transparent...spending their lives working without recompense, selling David's writings.....no insurance, health-care, super-annuation, any benefits, whatosever, and then "cast out on the streets" without a penny if they dare question what goes on........

The fact that they have now "run out" of kidneys to donate...tells us exactly how "voluntary" the whole exercise is!

(The donation profile is what one might expect from a top down military political structure.....)

Mal: you are welcome. There are still at least a few members who have not donated, namely, DM's wife and daughter. And I do not think that Joe has donated, either.

Please clear out some of your private messages; your Inbox is full, and I can send you no more messages for now for that reason.

Whoops....sorry will clear the inbox immediately...

...speaking about the JC "hippy commune", didn't Reinehardt nominate a "weekly income" for himself (obviously some sort of average of the money he draws selling Davids literature and and Davids' CD's)....on the application to sue for "compensation" for "lost income" from the vexatious court action launched against the Jonhsons....

How much did this "Christian hippy" say that he made for himself?

I believe that the "cost reimbursements" claimed for the kidney donations also included "lost income"......cynically opportunistic behaviour from the "live by faith, work for love Christian community" don't you think?....naturally I wouldn't deny them recompense for donating an organ....but their portayal of themselves as "earning an income" when they know they can be advantaged by it.....(the sum claimed under "cost reimbursement rises)....seems to to me to makes a lie out of the other claims they seek for themselves....hardly the behaviour of a "hippy"....!

Mal: please refer to the Visual Archive for those figures.

[forum.culteducation.com]

The three million dollar figure is on page four, and (I love this) on page six it is explained that Rino deserves compensation for "lost wages" and "loss of earning capacity."

Dear Zeuszor,

I think that McKay's reaction to the recent "tiff" with our significant others, says worlds about the man.

Kevin is one of the very few individuals still seeking to "engage" with David. Despite the years of faithful service, and then being ultimately betrayed and thoughtessly "cast asunder" when David came to perceive Kevin as no longer "pliable enough" to suit his purposes...

STILL Kevin seeks whatever reapprochment may be at all possible, STILL he seeks to keep communication open (and I being a "threat to that communication...we find ourselves treading on each others toes!)

I admit that Kevin has far more humanity than I might pretend to have (...as I no longer care in the slightest what ultimately becomes of McKay and would quite happily see him live out his life to a miserable end, seeing it as only fit for him, really .....) and quite possibly those big Pearly Gates will have the torn fragments of Malcolms back row seat ticket trodden underfoot by the angels mouning the "Welcome Kevin" sign across the front entrance....

BUT....

Can you believe it?

What stupid old goat would portray this as a "victory"....deriding the "downfall" of one of the few detractors that cares about him...

Who could be such as self-centered old fool, to think that he (and the "truth" he stands for) has been "vindicated" once again...

.....by the loss of one of the few who could actually give a stuff about him....(sign) You're insane, David McKay!!