Well, I've gotten some things off of my chest, expressed some frustrations and resentment. Again, in expressing these things I am looking neither for revenge nor am I trying to be cruel. I am trying to help inform people so that they can make a choice which is based on facts. Peace be with you all.

Dear Zeusor,

I hope that you continue to feel free to "get things off your chest" on this site...I am only remarking that I, personally, may sometimes choose to keep some observations of mine own, private....you don't need to do so, unless you are so persuaded! Judge for yourself what you sense to be best. As always if you ever make it over here....don't forget there's always 'room at the inn"....

....I'm coming to increasingly agree with you that not only is David a "lost cause"....but he is so TRANSPARENTLY a "lost cause" that he is directly inhibiting the growth of his own cult!!

I guess we should thank him for it!......

I ABSOLUTELY DETEST any efforts to basically kiss David's butt; that approach is just sickening to me.

He's been batshit crazy for years, and is progressively becoming more and more unhinged. Those images of DM taunting Jon Ronson (from Kidneys for Jesus) via those videotaped messages come to mind. David McKay is the quintessential narcissist, and he has had inflicted upon him over the last few years a huge amount of what is termed narcissistic injury. Somebody like David has a need to look good in front of others at all times. He always succeeds only in making himself look quite bad, and then blames everybody other than himself for his troubles. David does not even know who or what he is anymore, and in simple terms, he has totally lost it at this point. They'll never get another new recruit again, the McKays. This is my prediction.

I suspect that the other JesusChristians are aware, even if dimly of how zany David has become, without being able to articulate it (possibly even to themselves.... as it would lead to them being promptly thrown out of the "Kingdom of God").....there have been obvious attempts on their site to "limit" the damage he is causing them (as diplomatically as they could manage, without actually challenging him)....I imagine that clandestinely there will ongoing attempts to keep David in the "background" as far as possible....

....... that's an interesting predication that they'll never pull in another recruit.....I imagine that some of the JesusChristians would come over as nice enough people.....if McKay were "hidden" well enough....would they still hold enough "pull" to self-generate their own new members.....

....Hello/Jezebel has spoken highly of some them individually, that she has met (many of whom I no longer personally am familiar with)

...hmmmm!....

Hi Guys,
At this point, I consider Kevin to be a friend, and find it uncomfortable to read negative comments about him on a forum meant to provide support for ex members.
The ex JC forum is apparently far more scary to the JCs than this one, as current JCs are banned from reading that forum completely, but are allowed to read this one.
Since we know the JCs in general enjoy pointing out any possible inconsistency in peoples' responses, it seems fairly obvious that the level of information given over there is accurate to a degree that current JC membership finds hard to handle.
Kevin deserves respect.Despite being raised in a cult he has found freedom and with the other ex JCs who post there, does his best to educate with compassion.
i think there is sometimes a misconception that I have seen before about right to privacy, particularly for those raised in cults who may have an even greater need for privacy than those who have not had to deal with having there lives publicly dissected.

Others on this board post having given no or minimal information about ourselves.Overlikon and others including me have chosen not even to use our real names.Those who have chosen to use their real names ( Brian and Malcolm) have still understandably limited the private information they choose to give out about themselves. I don't know for example, the names of either of your fathers, mothers, children or significant others, or much about your relationships with them.Don't know much personal childhood information about you both either.I don't know the name of the school Brian attends, or either of your places of employment. While Brian has stated that he lives in Texas, and Malcolm that he lives in Korea , that is still not a great deal of personal information. And I very much respect both of your rights to privacy about those things you choose not to talk about.



Perhaps Kevin deserves the same right that the rest of us exercise, to choose to whom and what personal information he decides to release?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2010 10:49PM by yasmin.

Quote
yasmin
Hi Guys,
At this point, I consider Kevin to be a friend, and find it uncomfortable to read negative comments about him on a forum meant to provide support for ex members.
The ex JC forum is apparently far more scary to the JCs than this one, as current JCs are banned from reading that forum completely, but are allowed to read this one.
Since we know the JCs in general enjoy pointing out any possible inconsistency in peoples' responses, it seems fairly obvious that the level of information given over there is accurate to a degree that current JC membership finds hard to handle.
Kevin deserves respect.Despite being raised in a cult he has found freedom and with the other ex JCs who post there, does his best to educate with compassion.
i think there is sometimes a misconception that I have seen before about right to privacy, particularly for those raised in cults who may have an even greater need for privacy than those who have not had to deal with having there lives publicly dissected.

Others on this board post having given no or minimal information about ourselves.Overlikon and others including me have chosen not even to use our real names.Those who have chosen to use their real names ( Brian and Malcolm) have still understandably limited the private information they choose to give out about themselves. I don't know for example, the names of either of your fathers, mothers, children or significant others, or much about your relationships with them.Don't know much personal childhood information about you both either.I don't know the name of the school Brian attends, or either of your places of employment. While Brian has stated that he lives in Texas, and Malcolm that he lives in Korea , that is still not a great deal of personal information. And I very much respect both of your rights to privacy about those things you choose not to talk about.

Perhaps Kevin deserves the same right that the rest of us exercise, to choose to whom and what personal information he decides to release?

This place is called the "Cult Education Forum," not the "Ex-Members Support Group." They have thier own forum, jcs.xjcs, for that. There's good therpaists, too. I see one and it does me a lot good. Sure, I agree that the man deserves respect., and I do respect him. But what does respecting him have to do with it, anyway? One can have serious disagreement with another and still respect that person. Disagreement does not equal disrespect. If it did, then we'd be the ones in a cult. And I do also agree that everyone has their right to privacy; this is not the issue and is in fact quite beside the point so far as I am concerned. I am trying to help inform people so that they can make a choice which is based on facts. This end is not served by obfuscation of those very facts. Like I said before, that kind of obscurantist position is actaully a detriment to the facilitation of any truly "free discussion."

Really, I'm just reluctant to drift off too far into "sniping" at the XJCS and then losing our focus on DM. The bottom line is that the son is not the leader of a cult that robs individuals of their livelihoods and then eventually even themselves, his father is. So let's talk about DM. Can we do that please?

You haven't quoted me the "negative comment " that I am alleged to have made about Kevin, Yasmin...

.......would you mind supplying it.


I agree with Brian that this Forum is primarily for dissuading those not currently in the JC's from entertaining membership and has a different function from the role played at the jcs.xjcs site, where former members provide support for those who have bravely walked out of the "spiritual center of the universe" where they once thought that they lived.....David is desperate for attention and to retain standing as "leader" and hence seeks to play off allegations on this site as "hatred".....we cannot allow ourselves to be manipulated into silence by the "threat" that David will attempt to employ criticisms we make of him to "garner support" for himself.

I STRONGLY reject the suggestion that "dossiers" of information on David (amusingly he believes that Kevin fully released these) are in any way immoral......he engages in criminal behaviour and the information relevant to his whereabouts, financial status and activities would be required in any court in order to assist substantiate any charges being laid against him....and concerning which David would pathologically lie. (For example the "money trail" of those who forsake all their possessions to the JC's.... ).

As I have said previously, I actually think that he would best be committed to an institution for the criminally insane.

Were I to engage in fraud, blackmail, extortion, obtaining financial advantage by deceit, I too would be subject to the "indignity" of such information being collected about me.

I COMPLETELY reject the idea (current on the jcs.xjcs site) that I am obliged to be "nice" and avoid injuring poor Davids' "feelings".

As Zeuszor has stated, I believe that I and others should talk honestly, but....er, shall we also say "frankly" about David!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2010 05:43PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

The main thing is that David and his clones end up with bad publicity, so that others may be turned off from joining them. The whole thing with the XJCS is very deep and I don't think anyone is ever going to get to the bottom of it. I feel some of it has to do with offenses they carried out as part of the group that they don't want coming back at them. In other words, somebody's trying to cover his own butt, as well as DM's. But there are so many other issues, it really is hard to make sense of it all.

Dear Zeuszor,

My general opinion, is that the longer one remains cowed to David, the worse the damage ultimately sustained. Many individuals have been deeply hurt after David (eventually) betrays them and they then have the courage to cut their losses and leave...some "agenda's" may remain....it's a deeply personal experience. I may be being a little unreasonable myself...however I remain reluctant to "temper" my dislike for what David does, such that it falls within someone else's expectations of decency.....

For years following my departure, I continued to believe in it all....."somehow" it could all still be true....if only I could just persuade David and the others to see things "my way"......now clearly, I can see that the Jesus Christians were forever doomed to be a miserably unimportant and minor cult, by the very nature of how David "runs the show"....

Ross is now approaching his 50's. Roland and Robin are in their mid 40's......the three of them (but particularly Roland and Robin) have NEVER known anything in life other than being a "JesusChristian" and dutifully carrying out all that David has required of them ....in fact in many ways I doubt that Roland and Robin can actually even THINK outside of the "world parameters" that David has set...

....as the JesusChristians implode by degrees, they will remain supremely damaged individuals who I imagine will never truly recover within their lifetimes....I would think much the same for all the other "long termers"....you can see the same process in the (increasing) number of North Koreans who make it (via China) across to South Korea.....they've had to lie and deceive their entire lives simply to "survive" the system they've lived through.....and those survival characteristics eventually become part of their personality, even after they have have escaped!!

You may have notice Ross recently take up one of David's ideas (the social utility paradox ....greatest good for the greatest number...then justifying "necessary evils"....David's postulated shooting of a "madman" running amok with weaponary in a crowd....(David subconsciously projecting "himself?) and discuss it on the JC site.....poor Ross! He's trying to "rationalize" one of David's pet ideas and make it somehow "logical" and "reasonable"....he wants to "believe" in the worth of the man and has to "accommodate" his insane ravings as best he can.....having been in the same situation, I have to feel a little sympathy for Ross!

The "disconnect" that David has with reality is enlarging into the proportions of a gaping chasm....

Do you remember the claims preceding the foray into "youtube".....that this was going to "usher in" an entire new way that the JesusChristians related in the world (and likely lead to exponential growth)......and after simply enormous amounts of exposure (initially quite positive) when David first began encouraging the "donation" of the organs of his disciples and thus generated substantial media coverage for himself....coverage that would briefly outdo several other major cults combined!

....he still has not pulled in a single new disciple through it all...(although obviously raising enough cash to be able to splash about on Scientology lawyers....)

He cannot now see how sick he has become...nor understand how sick he looks through his cheap and nasty asides, provocations and deception.....I think many of the other JesusChristians are subconsciously aware of it....but dare not admit it to themselves.

Dear Zeuszor,

Sorry.....I see that there are already other JesusChristians who have already turned psychotic enough to be able to "demarket" the JC's

Do you who "SimonJC" is? What sententious idiocy...

Re:The Nature of Enemies and How to Love Them 18/12/2009 16:30

It does seem natural to want to remove yourself from the presence of an enemy, but of course this doesn't give us an opportunity to love them in certain ways. Although there are cases where removing ourselves from the presence of our enemies could actually be loving towards them, in as much as we don't give them an opportunity to do more wrong.

Being willing to love our enemies and to meet them etc, I think is good for us because of the above points, but also perhaps they could have had a change of heart and by us choosing to seek them out to show love, rather than running from them, we give them an opportunity to make amends and show love in return.

One last thought is that it seems like the nature of enemies to seek out the ones they are against, such as what happens on this forum from people like Malcolm, Craig, Brian etc, etc. For that reason, I don't know how much we need to seek them out to show love, as we will have plenty of opportunity to do so, when they come banging on our door again and again.

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Besides, endlessly contradicting himself (We "love" our all our enemies in God's good name, .....except for the ones we don't like!)

I've never come "banging" on this idiots' door.....as I've neither either met him nor have I ever posted on their site!