My friend told me about this forum after they inadvertently came across it while researching the school. They were curious to find out more about where I spend two weeks out of each year attending courses and meditating, as I have done for the last 15 years. They were concerned and distressed about these posts. I write because in my years as a student of this school, these have not been my experiences.
   
I have personally gotten a lot out of the school and haven’t experienced any of what’s posted in this forum. I have only found the school’s admin team and teachers to have more integrity and experience than a lot of the spiritual schools and teachers that are currently out there, places that I have personally encountered in my 40 years of exploring spirituality.
 
A couple years ago I had to take leave and skip courses at the school that I usually attend due to a death in the family. I did not experience any pressure to attend, and was only met with understanding and compassion. I received a full refund.

I am never pressured to attend courses. I am never forced to make donations to the school, to do work or labor, or to choose between the school and my family/friends. I simply attend two courses each year if I choose, pay the (very reasonable) fee to attend, and that’s it until the next year.

I have a longtime partner of 20 years that is not involved in the school. I am not pressured to leave him, and he is never pressured to join. I have other lifelong friends that aren’t in the school and likely never will be. I live a normal life, with other interests, spiritual and otherwise that are not connected to the school in any way. So the suggestion here that the school is as a cult leaves me feeling that the school is being misrepresented. 

I actually find many of the postings here to be quite alarming because they are stating facts with no proof, backing or evidence. Statements that are harmful in themselves, misleading, and seem to be -at times- driven by a personal agenda beyond what’s being stated. I have not seen or heard evidence of the claims here. Not through my direct experience, not by those that I have met that have taken courses once, several times or over many of years.

 
I am also concerned because it is my opinion that many of these posts create false concerns among the friends and families of students that have been or may be studying with the school and receive a great deal. I am hoping to portray a balanced counter-viewpoint to some of the more outlandish and unsubstantiated statements made on this forum.

 
Honestly, I feel my relationships, my spiritual health, and my happiness have only been improved by the practices I’ve found in the school. They have enhanced a lot of aspects of my life in many ways, so I am saddened to see some of the posts here about the school, some of which seem to be aimed at hurting the school.

Too bad there isn’t a forum for people to share success stories. It would bring a greater perspective about what the school is actually like.

this is propaganda, plain and simple.

People have lied to and abused innocent people at the school and there is massive abuse there.

Words in favour of clairvision written by fresh accounts on this forum are probably the lies of people who are premeditating deceptions in an attempt to. begin advertising for the school and may simply be accounts run by the school's leading members.

please be warned before you believe the statements of people who advocate for the school. I know people who were badly fucked over for life at clairvision and there was nothing done about it at all aside from gaslighting and alienation to keep their mouths shut.

the school is abusive and anyone who reads the novels will know it is a high demand organization that expects its students to believe in things Samuel said and those things are far too radical for people to be reasonably expected to handle.

never mind the cluster fuck scenarios isis has brought into people's lives, like people committing suicide or having psychotic breaks after doing clairvision work and then getting thrown out or alienated for it too no less! Of course the suicides were covered up... "but that's the nature of ISIS, it can make you unstable, things have to get worse before they get better and we can't predict what will happen in a given student's process"

what about the people fucking other people's wives and husbands to engage their "predator character" or SAMUEL fucking his students?

is all that stuff ok too?

Yes, there may be success stories at the school, but they advertise that on their website all the time, and never do they ever invite the legion of ex students to come forward and have a say, to be given the blessing of leading members so that they, the students who feel wronged, can come forward with the certainty that they will be welcomed so they can share their side of the story.

the school already puts out its success stories, it's called advertising and the school makes all kinds of high level claims right on its website.

It's like Samuel said in KT Foothills of the Great Mountain "It raises the voltage of consciousness as promised on... the front page of our website"

That's a blatant admission that the school advertises, made by its founder. Clairivison advertises its success stories all the time, and when I was a proud and loyal, dutiful member, I would even tell my friends "it's right on the front page of our website."

You do the math.

I find it interesting and quite dismissive to label my post as propaganda and to attack my post because it doesn’t fit with the current narrative here about the school.

I don't want to discount or diminish anyone’s needs to share a negative experience. And I understand that people have strong feelings about those experiences. I would hope that my positive experiences could be met with the same level of reception.

I have really taken the time to read and digest all that has been shared in this forum and make sense of it in contrast to my own interactions and dealings with the school. I find it troublesome that people can post here and make outlandish claims of suicide and coverups without providing any verifiable facts.

The problem when we squash alternative voices that share different experiences is that we risk creating an echo chamber, and it's like voices happening in a vacuum.

Once again, I am writing in hopes of contributing my voice about a school where there has been much to gain so that readers can evaluate for themselves.
 

I would have defended the school in much the same way while I was there. It wasn't till I was fully out that I really started to think about the abuses going on there in a different light, so I'm not surprised at the way some of the more recent posts defend the school.

I will say that anyone who says they haven't seen these kind of things going on at the school who has been part of the school for as many years as they claim to be in their posts either really isn't paying attention to their fellow students, or is just really good at compartmentalizing. When I was all-in when it came to clairvision, I remember seeing these type of things and just writing them off as part of the spiritual development process, so, again, not that surprising to hear these kind of statements from people who are still in the school.

I do have proof of some of these things that have been written here, but sharing them means exposing people who have already been victimized by the school yet again, so even if it does provide proof that these things really do happen, it doesn't actually help the people who have been harmed - it really just puts them in harms way yet again, and there's absolutely no way I'm willing to do that. Posting here for me is about preventing more harm from happening to people, not causing more.

What I don't see from cv proponents demanding proof are the pieces of proof they could provide - like Samuels medical credentials and awards he claimed to have. Perhaps a birth certificate with Samuel Sagans real name on it, or any of the number of things claimed on the website about Samuel's background. Proof goes both ways here as far as I'm concerned.

I remember feeling the way OakLight felt before, too. I read this forum while I was still in the school, and when you're in the cultic mindset, it's almost impossible to see another perspective.

OakLight's biggest concern is the perception of their friends and family, rather than the dozens of anecdotes that state harm (red flag #1).

I knew the first time I read this, before leaving, that a number of things on this forum really happened. I understood that people operating within an 'ordinary' schema would see Samuel having sex with his students as problematic. But within the cultic schema, Samuel was awakened so nothing he could do was wrong, and there must have been a higher purpose for it since he could see their timelines, etc.

OakLight's friends and family are right to be concerned about what has been posted here, and I think the biggest indicator of OakLight's cultic indoctrination is the immediate dismissal of their concerns and how quick they were to defend the school without acknowledging any validity to these claims (reg flag #2).

Instead, OakLight is 'saddened' and thinks people here are attempting to 'hurt' the school, when the goal here is to share experiences and prevent others from further harm.

I suspect OakLight is one of the foundation wave students who isn't involved in operations, instructing, living on property, etc. I think this segment of attendees actually is less impacted, as they are not as deeply enmeshed within the cult dynamic. It's true—there is less pressure placed on those who just want to attend for a week or two out of the year.

Still, it's not okay to invalidate the abuses others have experienced.

To OakLight's friends and family (or anyone else reading this with a loved one who is 'in'): Please know that telling someone they're in a cult is a very ineffective form of intervention. Consult a cult intervention specialist instead. Telling someone they're in a cult usually results in them 'digging their heels in' deeper and can cause greater harm and alienation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2025 06:56AM by bornyesterday.

Ahhh this is an interesting discussion. I have attended a few intensives (7-9days) and I have found the practice both absolutely amazing and quite damaging. Amazing because the process / guided meditation really works and I have had the most incredible and positive experiences from that. I loved my processes in this space. Damaging…because of the repeated exposure to the often quite horrifying abuse suffered by others - this is because you are both supported in your process and support others in theirs in equal measure. That’s 14 of yours and 14 of various other people’s. I was exhausted by this and I find the memories of it difficult to shake. Everything was much more intense the second time - the good and the bad. I am not clear on how the process of kind of spontaneously unearthing trauma without any psychological support is a good thing. I could be persuaded that it works ‘over time’ but there is a long break between courses so what about in the interim?

I found the facilitators to be very genuine, decent people, aged late 30s-60s. The group was aged from early 20s to late 60s. As for sex and aggressions - I doubt there’s any more sex than would be normal amongst any group of people living together for weeks (or months) at a time ….and as for aggression…I didn’t see that either, although everyone is vulnerable because you’re exposing your soul ( want to say ‘self’, but that doesn’t sound right) so it doesn’t take much to feel ‘attacked’ - probably only because of someone else’s personal trauma /journey and not about you at all.

Nothing about the place felt dodgy or cult- like and there was a lot of kindness and support in the group and from the facilitators. I can understand how people could feel they’d found their ‘safe space’ and not want to leave. I just question how realistic that is for those who are unearthing significant trauma.

In short, I found it incredible and I’m grateful for everything I learned. But I couldn’t ever go back because I found it too difficult/ damaging to hear other people’s trauma when my own defences were down. Triggered my PTSD, so perhaps I should have thought about that beforehand - I have to take responsibility for attending.

I read all the posts and found it very thought provoking although many of the con conclusions seem to depend on whether or not you find yourself as a Christian gnostic, Buddhist, or something else.

In Samuel Sagan saw himself as a Christian gnostic with sex as a sacrament and he taught this along with other techniques. Naturally students came that wanted to develop this skill which has certain complications. Despite reading all the posts I haven't see anywhere in these posts any indication that someone who had sex with him regretted it.

As for myself I practiced meditation regularly for 20+ years predominantly in Buddhist traditions and I was quite surprised that when meditating with Clairvision my hand gesture changed from and open handed "o" shape to more of a fist. I wonder if this relates to the concept of condensing one's energy body versus other traditions which emphasise becoming more airy over time.

There are quite a number of other unique features to the techniques that Samuel Sagan taught that don't seem to be present in other traditions.

For example, although I wasn't aware of cathartic therapy before this thread (although I have visited and loved smash rooms!) the very specific technique used involves a theory of energy bodies as storing traumas and a particular way of applying pressure to the physical body to then allow someone to "breath through" them reminds me most of other massage and somatic schools (such as Esalen and Reichian) rather than the more strict purely psychological approach.

It is definitely true that the school doesn't have many mental health practitioners but my general impression of that industry is that it tends to overprescribe substances versus a journey of discovering the root of the trauma, sourcing and removing it.

I don't think it is possible to reach a full conclusion about this tradition without more data, because you would ideally want to see a more clear indication of the people's progress over time through dealing with core traumas vis-a-vis other schools and techniques, including the frequency of psychotic breaks or other forms of backsliding.


On a personal note I met Samuel a decade or so ago and he left a good impression on me, partially because of his systematic way of approaching problems with an attempt for precise language and bit of a techie bent which is unusual for these types of schools. I would certainly be interested in seeing IST further develop because it is interesting and fulfilling process to take things that come from vision and integrate them into the larger practice of psychology and medicine. That said, I recognize that having a clear code of ethics that surrounds a practice is quite an important feature and there may be some room for improvement there.

exosphere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....many of the con conclusions
> seem to depend on whether or not you find yourself
> as a Christian gnostic, Buddhist, or something
> else.

The conclusions people are coming to in this thread don’t seem to depend much on their spiritual background. The red flags being raised (lack of informed consent, emotional manipulation, spiritual bypassing, boundary violations) are pretty cross-tradition. Many people in this thread come from different paths — some from Buddhism, some from Christianity, others from body-based or esoteric traditions — and yet the core issues they describe are strikingly similar.

> In Samuel Sagan saw himself as a Christian gnostic
> with sex as a sacrament and he taught this along
> with other techniques. Naturally students came
> that wanted to develop this skill which has
> certain complications. Despite reading all the
> posts I haven't see anywhere in these posts any
> indication that someone who had sex with him
> regretted it.

What concerns me most here isn’t the concept of sex as a sacrament. That’s present in many paths. What’s troubling is the lack of transparency. Clairvision never describes itself as a Christian gnostic school in its introductory workshops or website. In fact, it formally presents itself as a non-religious organization. And you don’t hear about sex as a sacrament until you’ve already been involved for some time. That kind of hidden doctrine feels deceptive, especially when it’s tied to interpersonal power dynamics with the founder.

And while I can’t speak for everyone, I did know one of Samuel’s former lovers. I can’t say whether she regretted the relationship, but I did see her break down bawling her eyes out on more than one occasion when discussing it — and this was at least 8, if not more, years after the relationship ended. Whatever her conscious stance, it was clear to anyone witnessing that the experience left deep emotional scars. If you experience this level of emotional upheaval about a relationship that many years after it ends, that's significant emotional damage. That matters..

I don’t think this thread is just about theory. It’s about lived experiences — some of them quite painful — and the importance of naming patterns so they don’t continue to harm others.

Alphabet_soup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found the facilitators to be very genuine,
> decent people, aged late 30s-60s. The group was
> aged from early 20s to late 60s. As for sex and
> aggressions - I doubt there’s any more sex than
> would be normal amongst any group of people living
> together for weeks (or months) at a time ….and as
> for aggression…I didn’t see that either, although
> everyone is vulnerable because you’re exposing
> your soul ( want to say ‘self’, but that doesn’t
> sound right) so it doesn’t take much to feel
> ‘attacked’ - probably only because of someone
> else’s personal trauma /journey and not about you
> at all.
>
> Nothing about the place felt dodgy or cult- like
> and there was a lot of kindness and support in the
> group and from the facilitators. I can understand
> how people could feel they’d found their ‘safe
> space’ and not want to leave. I just question how
> realistic that is for those who are unearthing
> significant trauma.

I appreciate the nuance Alphabet_soup brought with their post. I relate to a lot of what they said about the early courses being powerful, even transformative. And also overwhelming. It can be intensely beautiful, yes, but also potentially retraumatizing. And that risk increases when the deeper dynamics aren't transparent or acknowledged

What stood out to me most in the post: “Nothing about the place felt dodgy or cult-like.” That was absolutely my experience at first too. But I’ve come to realize that’s part of how the system works. Early courses are well-orchestrated to feel supportive and safe. The facilitators seem kind (and many are, at least in the beginning). There’s a shared language of growth and transformation. But the deeper issues — the ethical gray zones, the power dynamics, the favoritism and secrecy — tend to show up later, especially in the more advanced Wave courses, or in private work with IST practitioners. That’s where many of us started to see behind the curtain, but by then we were deeply immersed in the system..

So yes, I don't doubt that Alphabet_soup's experience was authentic. But it was also likely curated by clairvision facilitators to feel this way. That doesn’t make the experience invalid — just possibly incomplete. For some of us, the harm didn’t start until further down the path. And by then, it was harder to see clearly or exit cleanly.

There have been some mentions throughout this thread about power dynamics and ethics, particularly around sexual relationships — I want to try to deepen that conversation a little.

The illusion of consent is embedded in the clairvision’s culture and language.

One of the recurring patterns I’ve seen — and experienced — is how spiritual authority gets masked as equality. Leaders or senior students at clairvision often say things like “we’re all just students here,” but in practice, it’s not true. Whether someone has the official power to approve your participation in a course, is instructing your process, is your IST practitioner, or is a senior student who’s been around longer and implicitly holds authority — these roles carry weight. They shape behavior. I’ve seen senior students direct others in ways that clearly reveal an internal hierarchy. So when someone with more status engages with someone “lower” in that hierarchy — especially around emotionally or sexually charged dynamics — the idea of equality quickly breaks down — no matter what language is used to suggest otherwise. This aligns with what trixy described earlier in this thread — and in their other post, “clairvision is a cult” — about the Status Game and the unspoken spiritual ranking system that governs access, attention, and credibility.

That matters when we start talking about informed consent, especially in the context of sexual relationships. In clinical settings, licensed professionals (therapists, doctors, clergy) are legally and ethically prohibited from initiating sexual relationships with clients. This isn’t because sex is inherently bad — it’s because the power imbalance makes true consent functionally impossible. Even when a person says "yes," the conditions of the relationship — dependency, transference, fear of exclusion, desire for approval — profoundly shape that "yes."

when someone holds psychological or spiritual power over you, your capacity to give full, uncoerced consent is compromised. The fear of losing access, being seen as spiritually “resistant,” or being cast out can all shape your choices — often in ways you don’t fully realize until much later.

It’s not enough to say a relationship was consensual if the environment made it nearly impossible to say no without consequences.

The appearance of consent can mask deep coercion, especially when spiritual ideals like “working your samskaras” are used to bypass discomfort or resistance.

This is especially dangerous in spiritual communities, especially ones where the leaders are positioned as gatekeepers to healing, awakening, or enlightenment as it is in clairvision. When a leader then initiates or accepts sexual relationships with students — particularly without full community transparency or clear ethics — it raises serious red flags. In many traditions, that’s considered a breach of sacred trust.

It doesn’t matter if the student seemed willing. It doesn’t matter if they didn’t “regret it” at the time. What matters is whether they had full, uncoerced freedom to say no without relational, spiritual, or community consequences. In high-demand environments, that freedom is almost never present.

Some other posters have already spoke of this dynamic — how people were pressured, emotionally unravelled, or spiritualized into sex under the guise of growth. But I think it's important to name it plainly: in a high-demand, hierarchical environment, informed consent becomes very difficult — sometimes impossible — to access.

Another dynamic I’ve seen often — and that complicates both consent and equality — is when senior students or leaders begin relationships with people outside the school and then bring those partners into the school. Formally, these new students are asked to start “at the beginning” like anyone else. But in reality, they often receive preferential treatment, are quickly accepted into inner circles, or are viewed as more spiritually credible simply because of who they’re connected to. This fast-tracking distorts the image the school projects. It also creates relational pressure for the new student and sends confusing signals to others in the community about what actually earns trust, visibility, or advancement.

Any school that claims to offer deep personal transformation has a responsibility to uphold higher standards — not just to avoid harm, but to ensure that the growth it facilitates is truly anchored in autonomy, clarity, and care. clairvision claims to guide people toward awakening — but it consistently fails to meet even the most basic ethical standards required for real healing.