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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: LLG ()
Date: April 21, 2011 05:10AM

@SelahSelah - I’m sorry you went through that, it’s difficult to know that someone you had thought so highly of would care so little about you as a person. I also know how you feel, with the helplessness and mistrust. I wonder sometimes if I will ever feel really secure in my walk with God and know what he wants me to do, or will be able to fully trust a teacher/pastor again. The holidays still make me get all twisted up with anxiety and I can’t even look forward to celebrating our Lord’s resurrection because I still have this bad taste in my mouth over Easter. I feel like being in Trumpet Call of God, it’s like my mind was planted full of weeds that choked out the plants and made them wither and now I have a hard time being able to tell the difference between the weeds and the plants. I think slowly I’m picking the weeds out and that is making it easier, but it just gets discouraging sometimes. We just have to keep looking to Jesus to point the way, and I trust that He knows how much I love him and that he will show me the way out of the tangled mess somehow, someday.

Thanks for posting that information too, its great! :)

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: SelahSelah ()
Date: April 21, 2011 05:47AM



Different people leave in different ways. Some WALK out. Some get KICKED out. Some cult members just BURN OUT. Others GROW out. Still others FIND OUT or get COUNSELED out.


* These people simply rebel from the situation and leave.
* Unless they shed the mind control, walk-outs may lead destructive or fear-filled lives.
* Some adopt the attitude that since they couldn't measure up to the system's requirements, there isn't any hope for them anyway, so they might as well "live it up" while they can.
* Some develop patterns of living that they wouldn't have chosen otherwise.


* These people are excommunicated or shunned for a variety of reasons, usually related to the fact that they failed to fully integrate the four aspects of mind control--information control, thought control, emotion control, and behavior control.
* People who are kicked out of cults are commonly filled with grief and guilt. They are still very loyal to the group's beliefs and its people, even though rejected by the group.


* These people have been so abused spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally and financially, that they are barely able to function on a normal basis.
* Some :burn-outs" exhibit the Post-Traumatic Stress syndrome that is commonly experienced by war survivors. They are usually very confused, perhaps even physically ill, afraid and unable to trust anyone, most of all themselves.


* These are people who are given, or stumble onto information which explains the situation enabling them to leave the mind control without fear and guilt.
* These people usually take several years to work through the adjustment to normal living and attitudes. Education, scriptural as well as secular, cultivating new friends and establishing a new environment and restoring one's God-given personality are most helpful. The more one learns, the greater the healing.


* These people are rare.
* Few studies have been done on the needs of people who were born and raised within a mind control group.
* Most counselors are ill-equipped to handle the complexities of exit counseling because there are so many factors involved in mind control, and each person's experience is different, even within the same group.


One former member observed that she isn’t an Ex-cult member she is a "Recovering cult member."

The control in spiritually abusive systems is so strong that people report they have been affected for years afterward. It is for this reason that the WITHDRAWAL STAGES should be well understood by everyone.


This often begins almost immediately after conversion. The mind and will may be completely taken over by the logic presented by the cult. However, the gut feeling, emotions, or conscience often indicates that something is not quite right.


This doubt causes a feeling of guilt which the person attempts to stuff and deny. The guilt drives him or her to deeper resolve to "do right" or submit and to ignore any information that conflicts with the cults’ message. However, the conscience continues to exert itself causing the person to question things. Most people don’t know what to question. They may question the "standards", the existence of God or the truth of the scripture. They rarely have enough wisdom to question the history or the doctrine of the group.


The person will give lip service to the group but in reality often behaves or does things that are against the rules. This causes even more guilt and more resolve to "get right."


If the person is observant and alert, he or she may notice some discrepancies between what the scripture says and what is done within the group. Or he may hear of a scandal or problem that bothers him. This may worry some people but many others just think, "Oh, well, the people aren’t perfect but the organization or church is perfect." Or "Oh well, what can I do?" or "Oh well, God will take care of it."


The person may hear of the history of the church and begin to wonder why he was lied to regarding the founder of the group. An inquisitive person may begin an investigation. At this point, the person usually becomes very quiet and fearful about letting others know of his questions. By this time he has found out that it is socially unacceptable to voice any doubts.


The denial stage in which the person decides to ignore all the warning signs. They are actually afraid of or angry at anyone who has information that exposes the deceit of the workers. Some people NEVER get past this stage. They are hostile towards any information that spotlights the deceit and errors of the group.


The "Don’t know what to think" stage. MANY people get stuck here. They will try to figure things out on their own. They are suspicious of everyone. They don’t trust their friends or family and they don’t trust themselves. They don’t trust traditional Christianity. They don’t trust the information that exposes the group. They may not trust the scripture and might try to find reasons to believe the Bible wasn’t translated correctly. This stage is very critical. The stress of it can cause illness, anxiety, nightmares, emotional problems, marital problems, divorce, destructive accidents because of so much mental preoccupation, suicide, hostility and anger. Some report a problem with nausea, clenched teeth or other outward signs of tension. This stage is extremely painful and frightening. Usually the longer a person or his family has been in the group, the more painful it is.

At this stage, some people try to reason with the leaders. They will either arrange for visits or write long agonizing letters. Some hope that they can change the system or get some to agree with them. They are AMAZED at the total inability of leaders to hear what they are saying. However, some will agree with their arguments, pat them on the head and try to smooth their ruffled feelings.


The state in which a decision is made to leave the group. The person may go in several directions. They may become angry at God, or become an agnostic or atheist. They may try to start their own spiritual quest or church in the home. They may reach out to secular psychology for relief. Or, they may hook into another cult. They may decide to just let the spiritual part of their life hang in mid-air for awhile. Some people get stuck in a yo-yo syndrome: they will leave the church, go back to the church, leave, go back, leave and go back. They rarely ever figure out what the church believes or even what they believe. Or, they may become born again as a result of doing some intense praying, in-depth study and reaching out to normal Christian information. This stage is extremely crucial. If a married couple doesn’t agree or reach this stage together it can destroy their marriage.

Almost total rejection from the group and professing family occurs if the person announces his new allegiance to Christ instead of to the group system.


The state in which the old personality disintegrates and a new one is formed. The person will get rid of old clothes, old hairstyles, old possessions. Some people experience a lot of anxiety in adjusting to a new identity because their whole self concept was so closely tied to the group attitude towards themselves. New interests, charitable activities and hobbies are found. Bible study and Bible classes become the new excitement if one has been born again. The person rejoices at every new day and has a sense of peace. The world looks beautiful, people seem wonderful, nature seems to glow with the power and beauty of God. If a satisfactory church is found the person finds a great deal of happiness.


The person is in constant amazement at the difference between the old life and the new life. The person is able to pity those who are still in the old group and will eventually be able to laugh about his old experiences. The person will often want to reach out to others whom he has known while in the group. He feels a strong need to talk about the experience in order to understand the strong emotions and confusion he felt while inside the group. Talking to other ex-professing people seems to be the best therapy for those going through this process. Writing down what one has heard, experience and believes also helps clarify one’s thoughts.

-I think most may experience several or all of these regardless of how they left.


What happens to individuals who have been psychologically abused and morally betrayed by fundamentalist cultic religious groups? how can they recover from the damage done? Physically leaving such a group is relatively easy, but the emotional and psychological departure can take months or even years. This is why many people do not understand how any person can stay within a situation of religious abuse - much the same way that people fail to see how battered women stay with their abusers.

Such dysfunctional and destructive groups often use manipulation, fear, and deception to maintain a hold on members. They also shower their prey with unbelievable amounts of affection and approval for staying in the group and meeting their expectations ("love-bombing"). Groups also control and distort information from the outside. Thus it becomes a sin to read any "worldly" publications or "spiritual pornography." The group makes an extremely sharp distinction between right and wrong, good and evil; everything in the group is positive (godly), everything outside is negative (satanic). Ambiguity, doubts, and serious questions are not tolerated. The authority of the group's leadership is virtually absolute. All problems are oversimplified and deflected either away from the group or back towards the individual

(this is a methodology that I have come to call conflict isolation).

It is no wonder, therefore, that the religiously abused frequently suffer from emotional and psychological problems. I believe that it is high time that our society recognizes and deals with religious abuse as a social-psychological disorder in itself.

Generally, a person who breaks involvement with a dysfunctional group will encounter the following problems:

* Depression - the product of group-induced self-doubt and self-blame.

* Isolation and loneliness - the shock of crossing the barrier from one social environment to another.

* Impairment of decision-making and other intellectual skills.

* Floating - occasional lapses into the group's imposed mindset, often triggered by certain stimuli (music, symbols, key words or phrases, etc.).

* Difficulty in talking about group involvement - often related to strong feelings of guilt, fear, and bitterness.

* Interpersonal difficulties - communication, expression, making new friends, organized activities, dating, emotional and physical intimacy, etc. Recent walk aways are frequently mistrustful and suspicious of other people and groups.

So, how does one recover? How does a person heal the wounds of religious abuse? Hopefully, within a caring and understanding new social setting. This can be a family, a support or therapy group, or an organized community such as a mainstream church, religious group, or humanist society. It should also be done with patience and the consideration that recovery will take time and effort.

The following are some ideas for persons who have walked away from religious abuse and who are on the road to reclaiming their lives.

* Work towards trusting yourself and relying on your own abilities.

* Put your experience down in writing. This will help you to evaluate, understand, and cope with your past involvement in the abusive group.

* Get in touch with other people who have gone through similar experiences, either one-on-one or in a support group.

* Find a hobby or pastime to reinforce a positive sense of accomplishment.

* When floating occurs, firmly remind yourself that the episode was triggered by some stimulus. Remember also that it will pass. Identify the trigger, learn to make a new association, and repeat the new association until it overrides the old one. Talking it over with someone who understands can really help, too.

* Handle decisions, tasks, and relearning of interpersonal skills one step at a time. Don't rush yourself, talk and think things over, and don't be afraid if you make mistakes - we all do!

* Be more willing to help people as you go along. This builds up self-esteems and exercises your problem-solving skills.

* Take a breather from organized religion for about three to nine months, at least. Deal with your questions about religion, ethics, and philosophy in an honest and challenging manner.


There are three main stages in the recovery process:

* Realization and Exit

* Comprehension and Emotions

* Reconstruction and Dreaming

Stage One

This first stage varies in length. The length is dependent on the method of exiting. This stage is marked by the time and experience that alerted the cultist to the danger of the group and resulted in the cultist exiting the group permanently. The key to an effective exit is whatever helps to "jump start" the critical thinking process of the mind. This process has been on hold for much too long because the cult has told the followers that to question and doubt the group is to betray god (or whatever). The price for questioning and doubting, they are told, is eternal death. This is a very powerful fear to overcome.

Awareness of the insidious nature of the cult and the decision to leave comes slowly for some and quickly for others. For example, someone receiving exit-counseling becomes aware and leaves the cult very quickly as compared to someone who walks out after reflecting over several months or years on "devil- inspired" doubts.

Even after leaving, some ex-cultists are not sure if they made the right decision and "float" between their old cult identity and their new freed identity or pre-cult self. The more information and support a cultist receives during this stage, the better equipped they are to handle the pain and loss of stage two.

Stage Two

The second phase is full of ups and downs, of feeling like you just returned from Mars, of exciting new freedoms and discoveries, and it is also full of rage and pain. It involves coming to terms with being raped, emotionally and spiritually. And for many, it involves coming to terms with being physically raped as well.

I don't know how to convey the extremes of pain possible in this phase. Perhaps, it is how you would feel standing by helplessly as some crazy person slowly murdered someone you loved. It seems so incredulous to many that because they wanted to serve God and their country, wanted to help people, and wanted to make the world a better place - for this extension of their selves they were cruelly used. This is a very difficult aspect of the experience to reconcile. "What ever did I do to be treated like this?" is a question that rings deep in the heart of any ex-cultist. The answer to this question resides in understanding how mind control techniques work.

It is no wonder, then, that the rage and anger the ex-cultist feels is often overwhelming and frightening. So much so, that many tend to repress or deny the full expression of their emotions. But, understanding and feeling ones' emotions in a non-destructive way, I believe, is critical to recovery. This second phase can be extraordinary journey through pain and loss to learning and mastery. It varies in length and is dependent on how able the ex-cultist is to experience loss and how disciplined the ex-cultist is to study, think, and work toward a thorough understanding of the experience.

A Big Job. One of the truly tough parts about working through the experience is the very fact that it's a very big job. The ex- cultist must learn how to trust life again and learning to trust requires learning how to reality test. Because the cult phobias and teachings often touched on many aspects of life, such as family, government, education, religion, relationships, and economics, the ex-cultist often finds it necessary to examine and reality test most, if not all, of the teachings received in the cult for subtle, residual ideas that continue to manipulate the ex-cultist.

In addition, it is in this phase that the individual must learn how to trust themselves again and their ability to make decisions. Learning to trust after you have been used and hurt can be very scary, but trust in oneself and in others can be rebuilt with disciplined thinking and with courage. For those who come from dysfunctional backgrounds, recovering from the cult experience often means acknowledging and recovering from the effects of earlier dysfunctional relationships, such as:

* Abusive parents, relatives, siblings, spouse or abusing others

* Alcoholism, rape, incest, eating disorders, drug abuse

* Difficulties with intimacy, careers, law enforcement

Stage Three

To someone in the middle of the pain of stage two, the idea of having a dream again and building toward it is merely a sad, frustrating, and painful laugh. Having spent many years in stage two I understand that despondent feeling well. It is possible to rebuild your life. You will not be able to make up for all the years the cult has stolen from you, but you can make up for some of those lost years. I've worked very, very hard to recover from a severely dysfunctional family, a life of abuse emotional, physical and sexual, the death of a daughter, many years in a cult, time on drugs and alcohol to 'forget' and so on.

I'm here to share with you that if you are willing to stick with it, to work at it, to work through and let go of myths that look like truths both from the cult's teaching and from within society's teachings, and if you are willing to acquire new skills and improve others, you can and will be able to build a healthy and well-functioning life with a dream you can work toward.




Each person's experience with a cult is different. Some may dabble with a meditation technique but never get drawn into taking "advanced courses" or moving to the ashram. Others may quickly give up all they have, including college, career, possessions, home, or family, to do missionary work in a foreign country or move into cult lodgings.

After a cult involvement, some people carry on with their lives seemingly untouched; more typically, others may encounter a variety of emotional problems and troubling psychological difficulties ranging from inability to sleep, restlessness, and lack of direction to panic attacks, memory loss, and depression. To varying degrees they may feel guilty, ashamed, enraged,lost, confused, betrayed, paranoid, and in a sort of fog.


Why are some people so damaged by their cult experience while others walk away seemingly unscathed? There are predisposing personality factors and levels of vulnerability that may enhance a person's continued vulnerability and susceptibility while in the group. All these factors govern the impact of the cult experience on the individual and the potential for subsequent damage. In assessing this impact, three different stages of the cult experience-before, during, and after-need to be examined.


Vulnerability factors before involvement include a per-son's age, prior history of emotional problems, and certain personality characteristics


Length of time spent in the group

There is quite a difference in the impact a cult will have on a person if she or he is a member for only a few weeks, as compared to months or years. A related factor is the amount of exposure to the indoctrination process and the various levels of control that exist in the group.

Intensity and severity of the thought-reform program

The intensity and severity of cults' efforts at conversion and control vary in different groups and in the same group at different times. Members who are in a peripheral, "associate" status may have very different experiences from those who are full-time, innercore members. Specific methods will also vary in their effect. An intense training workshop over a week or weekend that includes sleep deprivation, hypnosis, and self-exposure coupled with a high degree of supervision and lack of privacy is likely to produce faster changes in a participant than a group process using more subtle and long-term methods of change.

Poor or inadequate medical treatments

A former cult member's physical condition and attitude toward physical health may greatly impact post-cult adjustments.

Loss of outside support

The availability of a network of family and friends and the amount of outside support certainly will bear on a person's reintegration after a cult involvement.

Skewed or nonexistent contact with family and former friends tends to increase members' isolation and susceptibility to the cult's worldview. The reestablishment of those contacts is important to help offset the loss and loneliness the person will quite naturally feel.


Various factors can hasten healing and lessen post-cult difficulties at this stage. Many are related to the psycho-educational process. Former cult members often spend years after leaving a cult in relative isolation, not talking about or dealing with their cult experiences. Shame and silence may increase the harm done by the group and can prevent healing.

Understanding the dynamics of cult conversion is essential to healing and making a solid transition to an integrated post-cult life.

Individual Differences

* Engage in a professionally led exit counseling session.

* Educate yourself about cults and thought-reform techniques.

* Involve family members and old and new friends in reviewing and

Evaluating your cult experience.

* See a mental health professional or a pastoral counselor, preferably someone who is familiar with or is willing to be educated about cults and common post-cult problems.

* Attend a support group for former cult members.

The following sets of questions have proven helpful to former cult members trying to make sense of their experience.

Reviewing your recruitment

1. What was going on in your life at the time you joined the group or met the person who became your abusive partner?

2. How and where were you approached?

3. What was your initial reaction to or feeling about the leader or group?

4. What first interested you in the group or leader?

5. How were you misled during recruitment?

6. What did the group or leader promise you? Did you ever get it?

7. What didn't they tell you that might have influenced you not to join had you known?

8. Why did the group or leader want you?

Understanding the psychological manipulation used in your group

1. Which controlling techniques were used by your group or leader: chanting, meditation, sleep deprivation, isolation, drugs, hypnosis, criticism, fear. List each technique and how it served the group's purpose.

2. What was the most effective? the least effective?

3. What technique are you still using that is hard to give up? Are you able to see any effects on you when you practice these?

4. What are the group's beliefs and values? How did they come to be your beliefs and values?

Examining your doubts

1. What are your doubts about the group or leader now?

2. Do you still believe the group or leader has all or some of the answers?

3. Are you still afraid to encounter your leader or group members on the street?

4. Do you ever think of going back? What is going on in your mind when this happens?

5. Do you believe your group or leader has any supernatural or spiritual power to harm you in any way?

6. Do you believe you are cursed by God for having left the group?


For those who walk away, get kicked out, or are abandoned by their cult leaders, it is often a surprise to find that freedom from the cult is not necessarily freedom from the cult's influence and from techniques of mind control.

Building a new life, finding work, starting new relationships, learning to enjoy being yourself, trusting your own judgment, and sorting through goals and values may seem overwhelming. Even these basic tasks may be impeded by difficulty in logical thinking, mental confusion, anxiety, cult-induced phobias, and heightened emotionality. In addition, nightmares, depression, and a sense of hopelessness lead many to seek therapy after the cult.

A complication to all of this is that many ex-members have difficulty finding knowledgeable therapists familiar with cults and mind- control techniques. Without addressing the particular methods and techniques used by the group and its belief system, therapy is often prolonged and unduly complex, and often doesn't address the immediate needs of the former cult member.

As a therapist working with ex-members, I can explain the various general elements of cult recruitment and mind control as well as identify the effects of emotional, physical, and sexual trauma. Even more effective, I have found that when therapy is combined with the expertise of an exit counselor familiar with the group or type of group, recovery can be greatly facilitated. Therapy can then be utilized to address recovery needs and other issues.

The advantage of exit counseling is that often the ex-member is now aware of the specific manipulative techniques used in the group. Reconstructing some of these techniques can be done with the help of an astute therapist, but often the altered states of consciousness experienced during cult membership will continue to induce a spontaneous amnesia. In other words, while chanting, praying, meditating, or using other exercises during the course of group involvement, altered states (also known as dissociation) are achieved. Even slight deviations from our normal waking state of awareness can be enough to make the cult member highly suggestible and then vulnerable to subtle group influences. These deviations of consciousness combined with the suggestions, commands, and subtle influences of the group or leader are often outside of the person's regular conscious awareness.

The mind naturally attempts to make sense of what is illogical. However, acceptance of cultic beliefs, influences, and values are often hard to dispel when they are deeply embedded in the above manner. Conflicts and doubts about the group may be sensed, but the source of these feelings are out of conscious awareness. It is for this reason many people leave their groups knowing something was very wrong with the experience, yet have difficulty understanding what happened to them. Often ex-members blame themselves for not being able to stay in the group, feeling a sense of personal failure. They do not see the "technology" church, or the guru as being at fault, but rather somehow they believe something is deficient in them.

Example 1: In a large mass transformational group, hypnotic trances are induced throughout the training though never labeled as such. The instillation of cultic beliefs is done while the individual is in an altered state of consciousness (hypnotic trance) and is highly suggestible during various "guided imagery" exercises. Other exercises or "processes" use highly emotional states whose aftereffects camouflage and make inaccessible an intelligent and conscious evaluation of the experience.

Example 2: Another common occurrence is the hallucination of demons or "deities" following prolonged meditation in some Eastern groups or following indoctrination in certain Bible-based groups. Practitioners of Eastern groups that promote lengthy meditation on and communication with these "entities" may have difficulty stopping the hallucinations after they leave the group. In Messianic and Bible-based groups, fear of Satan or demons may be deeply instilled to prevent members from leaving or communicating with those outside the group. Fears of these "dark forces" may be manifested by extreme distrust of those outside of the group, fear of oneself, or, in extreme cases, hallucinations of demons or Satan.

To someone unfamiliar with cultic practices, the effects of those techniques might be dismissed without appreciating the power they have over mental processes. The problems of cult-induced hallucinations and illogical thinking in the above examples may be quite misunderstood by traditional mental health providers. These are not examples of psychosis, but of purposely induced cultic phenomena in order to maintain control of and further separate the member from society. Without an adequate understanding of what occurred in the group, it is extremely difficult to separate and distinguish cultic beliefs and values from previously held ones. Illogical thinking, difficulties in concentration and decision making, and erratic behaviors and feelings are difficult to eradicate when their source is unknown. Understanding the use and misuse of altered states combined with the beliefs of the group is helpful in making sense of post-cult difficulties.

One option available to ex-members is to find an exit counselor familiar with your group and arrange for some intensive time of counseling for yourself. This is not psychotherapy but an informative process designed to educate you about the specific mind-control techniques used by your group and their effects; the foundation, fallacies, and implications of the beliefs of the group; and perhaps information on legal and ethical issues of the group and its leader. "Magical" powers and manipulations of the guru or leader can be exposed and the source of phobias revealed and resolved.

Since there are over 3,000 cults in the United States, it is unreasonable to expect someone to be familiar with your cult if it is small (less than 50 members).such as Eastern meditation, New Age, mass transformational, and psychotherapy, political, Bible-based, and so on. Thus, finding a counselor with a special knowledge of your type of group is a reasonable expectation.

Ask other ex-members about their experiences, read as much as you can about cults and mind control, and then interview several counselors before choosing one. Make sure you select someone you feel comfortable with, can afford, and who is familiar with your type of group.

All of these authors and excerpts can be found here []

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: gracevslaw ()
Date: April 22, 2011 05:15AM

@salehsaleh awesome stuff and i'll have to catch up here later. i tried sending you a message but your inbox is full. i look forward to catching up here! i hope everyone is doing ok?

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: SelahSelah ()
Date: April 22, 2011 10:59PM

@ gracevslaw it is good to hear from you, I hope you are going well!

I also found these videos to be helpful
Spiritual Abuse: Who Joins Abusive Ministries?

Also I found some of this information from different sources to be helpful as well.

Ten signs of the presence of spiritual abuse, manipulation, domination, or intimidation. Spiritual Abuse (which is always expressed in varying degrees) is occurring when a pastor, leader, or even a friend:

1. “Hears” God for you. God apparently “goes through” him/her to speak to you. (This requires a sense of superiority – from him or her and is often framed as being “more mature,” and a sense of being “less” from you.)

2. Alienates (shuns, ignores) you if you do not adhere to his/her guidance, leadership, or authority. (This is usually VERY subtle – so it is easy to deny.)

3. Suggests that rejection of his/her “higher understanding” is done so at your spiritual or even physical peril. (You will hear things like, “Be careful. You will move yourself from the covering and protection of God.”)

4. Rewards your obedience with inclusion, and punishes your questioning or resistance with withdrawal. (Compliance gets stroked, resistance gets struck!)

5. Demands “cathartic” honesty. Unless you spew out every detail of your life you must be hiding or withholding something (and that “something” will, of course, impede your spiritual development).

6. Lavishes you with praise, acceptance, and understanding when you are “good” and “pushes” you away when you are “bad.”

7. Is apparently fixated on the use of titles like reverend, pastor, elder and cannot appear to relax in the company of “ordinary” mortals. The issue is not in the use of legitimate titles (or robes or religious garb) – it is that identity seems impossible without the titles or the trappings.

8. Leaves a trail of cut-off relationships. Usually in the trail are those who refuse to bow, to submit, to stand in awe of, to be thoroughly entranced by, the will of the pastor, the leader or the friend. Always regard with suspicion or caution leaders who are cut off or alienated from members of their family, especially their parents.

9. Lives from a “for me/or against me,” “black/white,” “all/or nothing” platform of “relationships.”

10. Genuinely sees God’s Call so zealously, so fervently that any signs of resistance are seen as the expressions of The Enemy or an enemy – thus, relationships are expedient (disposable) in the light of getting on with God’s work.

Some More Signs Of Spiritual Abuse
1. Apotheosis of the leadership — exalting them to God-like status in and over the group;

2. Multi-level authority/government hierarchy;

3. Absolute authority of the leadership;

4. No real accountability of the leadership to the corporate body;

5. Hand-picked sub-leaders, based on their demonstration of submissiveness to the ultimate leader rather than on the basis of their leadership skills, spirituality, and anointing and appointment by God;

6. Pervasive abuse and misuse of authority in personal dealings with members;

7. Paranoia and insecurity by the leaders;

8. Abuse, misuse, and inordinate incidence of "church discipline;"

9. Personal materialism, covetousness, and self-aggrandizement by the leaders;

10. Members and/or sub-leaders must make a "spiritual covenant," sometimes a signed covenant agreement, pledging their total commitment and financial support to the leadership and church/ministry;

11. Partitioning of the group into smaller groups that are led by internally "raised up" lay-leaders who have not been anointed or appointed by God for leadership within the church;

12. Financial exploitation and enslavement of the members;

13. Inordinate attention to maintaining the public "image" of the ministry;

14. Doctrinal demeanment and devaluation — the requisite of espousing and teaching "sound doctrine" is demeaned and devalued;

15. Theological incompetency by the leadership, especially with respect to the rules of hermeneutics and Bible exegesis employed in the formulation of doctrine, giving license to twisting and adulteration of Scripture in order to provide proof-texts for unorthodox and invented doctrines;

16. Spiritualism, mysticism, and unproven doctrines;

17. Abuse and misuse of prophetic giftings as a means to dominate and intimidate;

18. Devaluation, disallowance, disregard, and displacement of the true Fivefold Ministry within the church;

19. De facto legalism, or works mentality, and its resulting loss of the "joy of salvation," though "freedom" is forever preached from the pulpit and the church is constantly touted as being a "safe church" by the leadership;

20. Esotericism — hidden agendas and requirements revealed to members only as they successfully advance through various stages of "spiritual enlightenment," i.e., unorthodox, unproven indigenous doctrines;

21. Isolationism — corporate and individual, especially with respect to exposure to outside ministry sources;

22. Performance-based approval and promotion system of members predicated on "proven" "loyalty" (i.e., submission) to the leadership;

23. Devaluation, suppression, and non-recognition of members' bona fide God-given talents, abilities, gifts, callings, and anointing, as a means of subjugation;

24. Requiring members to perform menial tasks, such as cleaning toilets, setting up chairs, and acting as the leader's personal valet or slave, as a supposed means to humble them and teach them to "obey their leaders;"

25. Constant indoctrination with a "group" or "family" mentality that impels members to exalt the corporate "life" and goals of the church-group over their personal goals, callings, and objectives;

26. Members are psychologically traumatized and indoctrinated with numerous improper fears and phobias aimed at keeping them reeling in diffidence and an over-dependence or co-dependence on their leaders and the corporate group;

27. Corporately, there eventually develops an inordinately high incidence of financial, marital, moral, psychological, mental, emotional, and medical problems, including sudden deaths and contraction of "incurable" and "unknown" diseases;

28. Lack of true personal spiritual growth and development, especially in terms of genuine faith and experiencing the abounding grace, forgiveness, goodness, blessings, kindness, and agape-love of God;

29. Members are required to obtain the approval or "witness" of their leader(s) for decisions regarding personal matters;

30. Frequent preaching from the pulpit regarding not getting out from under the "spiritual covering" of the leadership;

31. Members departing without the prior permission and blessing of the leadership leave the group under a cloud of manufactured suspicion, shame, and slander;

32. Horror stories frequently told by leaders about individuals or families who left the group without the prior permission and blessing of the leadership, and the terrible consequences and curses they suffered as a result;

33. Departing members often suffer from various psychological problems and display the classic symptoms associated with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Are you told not to question what is being taught because the leaders are honest and want the best for you so you must trust them. Has someone replaced your own choices in life.

Are you told not to ask questions why anyone left, your to accept the answers the leaders give you such as: they fell into sin, they didn’t receive correction, they weren’t open or they had a bad heart and didn’t want to be disciples.

Are you told that you must be with their certain church or group to be saved and not by Jesus Christ alone.

If you want to leave are you being told their is no other church that practices truth, you will go to hell or suffer God's wrath.

Are you made to feel your failures, that your performance is not up to par for the bibles standard or groups message.

Are you being rebuked for things such as the way you say hello or how you respond to being asked to do something for a leader or disciple. Do they tell you its a matter of the heart how one complies.

Are they putting down other church’s and building themselves up. Do they sometimes use people as examples of what you are to be doing and others on what you are not to be doing.

Do they bring attention to what they do, and ignoring others that may be doing the same things outside their church.

Do they put down others to make themselves look better, calling themselves righteous and others unrighteous.

Do they call those who leave fall aways and enemies, dogs returning to their own vomit, using the examples of Korah or Judas.

Do they stop you from reading anything negative about themselves calling it spiritual pornography or recommend you not to read it for your own spiritual protection.

Do they recommend for you to be around their people expecting you to be at all the group activities. If not you're spirituality and dedication are questioned.

Do they defend all that they do even though it can be harmful or wrong.

Do they operate by humility or are they arrogant and demand you to obey if you are considering otherwise. Or is it done subtly by manipulating you into obeying by statements such as, real Christians obey their leaders or if you were following Jesus you would see what I’m saying is right, true disciples did not question Jesus, etc.

People telling you how talented you are and saying you can really go places. (flattery goes a long way in cults)

An instant bonding of friendship without your knowing who they are or they really knowing you, they act as your best friend (love bombing still works).

When you ask questions about their history or the group they are vague in their answers or avoid answering them. (not answering or postponing it makes it go away)

Are you required to attend studies, going through the program before you are allowed to be a Christian. (this will attach you to the groups goals)

Are they emphasizing their church and who they are, more than Christ. They teach that one can only be a true Christian by joining them. (exclusive spirituality appeals to our pride and works well today)

Cults will always divide the family unit instead of bringing them together. They will make you choose between God and their church, (even while telling you, you are doing both). They use scriptures such as Jesus came to bring a sword not peace or one must give up brothers sisters wife and house for the kingdom and be a true follower Children often become the most hurt because of strict rules enforced on them. They lose their childhood and are deeply affected being unable to adjust later on in life. Religious systems that are not balanced can be socially and psychologically disastrous for innocent children.

What to do when confronted to join
Say you're not interested and do not put up with their badgering and phone calls. Tell them you want time to think about what they are teaching before you become committed to their group. If they pressure you for attendance or continuing in their studies then you know this is not something good.
If you are already a member, leave while it may be easy because it doesn’t get easier to leave later on.

You have every right to ask questions, lots of them in fact. Ask about what other churches they are affiliated with.

What is their history and the people involved and those they look up to for spiritual teaching. What books influenced them or what do they read.

What is their doctrine, is their basic beliefs and philosophy of ministry on paper. If not, why not.

Can you review on paper their revenues, are they open to the people and public. Do they review who gives what to the Church. Are peoples finances monitored?

If others left can you find out why, or is mum the word. Do they allow you to speak to former members. If this is not allowed, this becomes the biggest check in joining quickly. Watch if they become uncomfortable in your asking about their origins or teachings.

Give yourself some time if you're seeking to know God or looking for a church he will give you warnings and lead you. Don’t ignore the warning signs or checks on how they conduct themselves no matter how friendly the people are . Love and emotional attachments are an old ruse to have you accepted without any strings attached. This doesn’t last long. Ask what they do on their spare time .Many times ones talent and creativity is smothered as all their time goes toward the group or church.

Where do all the people in cults come from?
Ron Rhodes writes in his book "The Culting of America," "It is a common myth that unbelievers join Cults." Percentages show that those who join these aberrant groups formerly attended Christian Churches.

Dr. Paul Martin of Wellspring Retreat (where cultists adjust from their harmful experiences) writes, "Twenty-five percent formerly attended evangelical, fundamental churches. Over 40 % had backgrounds in large, more liberal Protestant denominations."

Lately the International Churches of Christ probably have the greatest percentage of Church converts. Because their main goal is to go into the Christian Churches and remove people.

There are 2 categories of cults one is doctrinally the other is sociologically.
1. Almost all cults deny the Apostles creed which consists of the virgin birth, deity of Christ, his resurrection, his atonement on the cross and 2nd coming. They have tendency to pronounce other groups as apostate and they alone have the truth.

3. They devalue or deny the deity of Christ.

4. They have Extra sources of biblical revelation they may use Gods word with something else to interpret it.

5. They have salvation by works -either denying God's grace or add performance. It will not always be easy to spot. Mormons say they are saved by grace-this means from death and not the penalty of sin.

6. They will deny a major doctrine. Cult like groups take a minor doctrine and make it a major. Ex: you must speak in tongues to be saved.

The following are basic patterns, or characteristics, found in almost all cults that one can easily identify.
Additions - Cults add to the Word of God by having additional writings they call scripture, or by saying that only the Bible is God's Word but you cannot understand it without their interpretation from their own teachers or books. The Bible is discouraged to be read alone.

Subtraction - Cults subtract from the Person of Jesus by saying he is something less than Eternal Deity. Or they will add their own teacher as deity.

Multiplication - Every false religion has works as part of their system of salvation. They also usually specify what works must be performed at a certain level for acceptance to their group and God.

Mediators- They will always have others involved for ones salvation by others. For the J.W.’s it is the 144,000. for the International Churches of Christ its discipleship partners. For Mormons it is to join their church for salvation and use their materials- Doctrine and Covenants, Journal of Discourses and the Melchizedek priesthood.

Divisive - Cults have people choose by dividing a person's loyalty. It's God through their leadership by claiming to be the only Spokesman or group for God. They also require obedience to their leadership to be in right standing with God. They do not tolerate another’s differing opinions and it is looked upon as being divisive or of the enemy.

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: SelahSelah ()
Date: April 22, 2011 11:28PM

*As a Christian I will state, I personally do NOT think that the 'entities', 'deities', and or 'demons' some may experience from eastern channeling or cult involvement that won't "go away" are just merely "hallucinations".

I do acknowledge however that if your group is motivated by fear, then you will experience paranoia and phobias like you are too afraid to go in church because you're afraid God is going to destroy it with you inside, or thinking that every time there is diverse weather that God is coming to kill you for speaking against the group/message.

One way some biblical cults have used fear is by saying that God is very defensive of the 'servant's' or 'leaders' and if you speak against them or their message you are speaking against God and you will pay big time, so you better not say anything and just keep quiet or God's wrath will be poured out on you. Also another thing I have read some groups will do is try to make you defenseless and hopeless by saying 'Don't bother trying to pray about it because God will no longer hear your prayers and He is no longer your God because you do not accept our message', etc.

I thought it might be helpful to share some information on Ellen White's and the SDA church's teachings I have compiled from different sources. I will share more if I find any worth noting. I think it is important since the letters endorse the SDAs as being the"closest to doctrinal truth" and the UCG (who they also condone as doctrinal) branched off from the Adventists.

"God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master' brute beasts. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been."
(Spiritual Gifts, vol. 1, p. 193)

"You think individuals have prejudiced my mind. If I am in this state, I am not fitted to be entrusted with the work of God."(3 Selected Messages, pg. 63, Letter 16, 1893)

Testimonies for the Church Vol. 9:
"The Colored People should not urge that they be placed on an equality with White People."
(Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, Paragraph 3.)

"We cannot expect that they ... [Colored People] will be as firm and clear in their ideas of morality."
(Testimonies Vol. 9, page 223 paragraph 3.)

"No one is capable of clearly defining the proper position of the colored people."
(Testimonies Vol. 9, page 213 paragraph 4.)

"The work of proclaiming the truth for this time is not to be hindered by an effort to adjust the position of the Negro race."
(Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, paragraph 4.)

"Slavery will again be revived in the Southern States; for the spirit of slavery still lives. Therefore it will not do for those who labor among the colored people to preach the truth as boldly and openly as they would be free to do in other places. Even Christ clothed His lessons in figures and parables to avoid the opposition of the Pharisees." (Spalding, Magan Collection, page 21 and 2 MR #153, page 300)

"I have since thought that many inmates of insane asylums were brought there by experiences similar to my own."

(Mind, Character, and Personality vol. 2, p. 454.)

"There are many who are losing their souls in this age of the world, by becoming absorbed in the thoughts of marriage, and in the marriage relation itself."
(Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Sep. 25, 1888)

"Thus Satan used an unconsecrated woman [Jezebel] to sway the heart of the king, and through the king to cause all Israel to sin. It is a terrible thing to be an instrument in the hands of Satan. Satan chooses women, for he can use them more successfully than he can men."
(Manusript Releases, vol. 10 p. 76, Ms. 29, 1911, p. 13. Released by the White Estate Washington, D. C. July 16, 1980)

"You sport and joke and enter into hilarity and glee. Does the Word of God sustain you in this? It does not. Christ is our example. Do you imitate the great Exemplar? Christ often wept but never was known to laugh. I do not say it is a sin to laugh on any occasion. But we cannot go astray if we imitate the divine, unerring Pattern. We are living in a sad age of this world's history."
(Manuscript Releases Vol. 6, pp. 90-91)

"I WAS SHOWN that the people of God should not imitate the fashions of the world. Some have done this and are fast losing the peculiar, holy character which should distinguish them as God' people. I WAS POINTED BACK TO GOD'S ANCIENT PEOPLE, and was led to compare their apparel with the mode of dress in these last days. What a difference! What a change! Then the women were not so bold as now. WHEN THEY WENT IN PUBLIC, THEY COVERED THEIR FACES WITH A VEIL. In these last days, fashions are shameful and immodest...The small bonnets, exposing the face and head, show a lack of modesty...The inhabitants are growing more and more corrupt..."
(Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 188,189)

"The First Day Adventists are a class that are the most difficult to reach. They will generally reject the truth, as did the Jews. We should, as far as possible, go forward as though there were not such a people in existence. They are the elements of confusion. Immoralities exist among them to a fearful extent. It would be the greatest calamity to have many of their members embrace the truth."
(Manuscript Releases Vol. 13, p. 346, written in 1872)

"Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction. They have already, from their youth up, weakened their brains, and sapped their constitutions, by the gratification of their animal passions. Self-denial and temperance should be the watch-word in married life; then, when children are born to parents, they will not be so liable to have the moral and intellectual organs weak, and the animal strong. Vice in children is almost universal. Is there not a cause? Who have given them the stamp of character?"
(Solemn Appeal, pg. 178 (1870))

"The time is and has been for years, that the bringing of children into the world is more an occasion of grief than joy..... Satan controls these children, and the Lord has but little to do with them. The time has come when, in one sense, that they that have wives be as though they had none."
( MS 34, 1885)

"The eating of pork has produced scrofula, leprosy, and cancerous humors. Pork eating is still causing the most intense suffering to the human race."
(Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 393, para. 2.)

"...Satan has taken full possession of the Churches."
(Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90)

"Prayers of non-SDAs are an “abomination” to God."
(Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190)

"...He (Jesus) was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's Host, Michael the Archangel."
(Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761)

"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God."(Advent Review and Sabbath Herald of 10-26-1897)

"Sunday keepers" are doomed to receive the "mark of the beast" and lose eternal life."(The Spirit of Prophecy V. 4, p. 505)

"Every man's work passes in review before God...Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered, with terrible exactness, every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel."(The Faith I Live By, page 210)

"...Those who are living on the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil....". (The Great Controversy p. 425).
(Obviously they have chosen EGW's doctrine over that stated in the Bible. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them"-Hebrews 7:25)

Christ bore our own sins in his body on the tree according to the Bible. 1 Peter 2:24 says, "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree..." Become a SDA, and it will be Satan who will eventually bear your sins!

" Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate...".(The Great Controversy p. 485).

False Prophecies You Won't be Told About:
Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning!

Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:

Christ didn't come visibly to earth, but He, invisibly, in heaven, changed compartments from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844 and began the work of "investigative judgment" that we have discussed previously.

This false date and its failure triggered other heresies on the atonement of Christ which continues to this day. Honest-hearted SDAs who have pointed out the error of the 1844 "investigative judgment" have been shown the door by their Conference. You sure won't be told the true history behind the 1844 doctrine by SDAs!

Embarrassing false prophecies by EGW have been altered, covered up, and locked up by the SDAs. You won't be told about them, but here are a couple:

Remember, just one false prophecy done in the name of the Lord marks that one as a false prophet (See Deut. chapter 18).

Ellen G. White said people alive in 1856 would be translated at the 2nd coming of Jesus. (Testimonies, V1, p 131,132).

Ellen indicated that your salvation could be dependent on giving up meat . No meat-eaters will be "translated" at Christ's coming (Counsels on Diet and Foods p. 380).

"...if we subsist largely upon the flesh of dead animals, we shall partake of their nature". (Counsels on Diet ..on p. 390)

She said in (Testimonies for the Church, Volume 1, p. 259), that the United States would be "...humbled into the dust" by England during the Civil War.

No wonder Jesus told us to "Beware of the false prophets". Time is their enemy. These false prophecies will never be mentioned by the SDAs.

Cult Links
You won't be told at the SDA Seminars about the things they have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.

SDAs share their early history with the Jehovah's Witnesses. An early Adventist, N. H. Barbour co-published with Charles Taze Russell. They had a falling out over (what else?) dates for the end of the world! (1844 and 1874), and parted company.

Both, however, kept heretical doctrines to this day like Jesus being Michael the Archangel, the denial of Hell, and both still advocate soul sleep. Both invented invisible occurrences in heaven for their failed dates for Christ's visible return, "Investigative Judgment" for the SDAs and "Christ's invisible presence" for Jehovah's Witnesses.

There is Mormon link also for the SDAs. It is a proven fact that Ellen G. White plagiarized most of her writings. The Church has been challenged by Walter Rea, author of the White Lie to prove that even 20% of her writings are original. They can't. Their weak defense was that there were no copyright laws in Ellen's day, so what she did was legal. You will never be told of her plagiarism by the SDAs.

As Ellen was rising to prominence, Joseph Smith had just died. Her writings contain many phrases used by Joseph Smith. Mind you, he has also been accused of plagiarism. It illustrates just how far her "borrowing" went. You will definitely not be told of her similarities to Joseph Smith by SDAs!

Consulting the Dead
You really won't be told about Ellen G. White's engaging in necromancy, communication with the dead, expressly forbidden by God in Deuteronomy 18:10-12

"There shall not be found among you anyone...who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord..."

This particular necromancy occurred after the death of her husband James, whom she called "Father". She recounts the experience in a letter to her son published in ("The Retirement Years" p. 161 - 163)

She begins her letter by stating that she was seeking God regarding her future,

"A few days since I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty"...

It is evident she believed this dream was in response to her prayers to God. James (whom she called "Father") appeared beside her as she was in a carriage. She reported he looked "very pale, but calm and composed". (After all, he was dead!)

She says,

"...I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back...?"

We are not to have conversations with the dead, but Ellen and James converse back and forth about church matters and their health. At one point James foretells the future for Ellen,

"...Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings...".

James, her dead husband, goes on to tell her she must avoid taxing her strength by going to meetings and retire and write instead. He tells her "...Make this your first business".

Ellen now makes an agreement with her dead husband to stay in touch,

"Well, said I, James you are always to stay with me now and we will work together".

This would involve further communication with the dead. Ellen recounts that she then awoke and took the whole matter as being from the Lord in these words,

"...I feel no duty to go to Battle Creek...I have no duty to stand in General Conference. THE LORD FORBIDS ME. That is enough."

Well, that is enough to conclude, not only the letter, but the fact that Ellen consulted the dead and took it all as coming from the Lord. She indicated she wanted to continue this practice.

Can we trust this dream? No, of course not. How then are we to trust her other 200 or so "inspired by God" dreams and visions that occurred over her lifetime? We can't, if we judge matters by the word of God.

Other Info
Most of EGW's concerns over diet were in an effort to control what she considered to be an excessive sex drive in the male. She devoted endless pages to discussing "secret vice" (masturbation) and blamed the practice for a wide range of diseases. Here, in "Solemn Appeal" page 12 are a few of the diseases said to be caused by "secret vice"

"...dyspepsia, spinal complaint, headache, epilepsy, impaired eyesight, palpitation of the heart, pain in the side, bleeding at the lungs, spasms of the heart and lungs, diabetes, incontinence of urine, fluor albus or whites, inflammation of the urinary organs... rheumatism, affected perspiration, consumption, asthma, catarrah, polypus of the heart, affection of the bones, fevers, ..etc. etc.

The cure for secret vice was even funnier. The perpetrator was to sit in a sitz bath at as low a temperature as possible. At the same time, he was to have a hot foot bath, while applying cold cloths to his forehead. He was also to wear an abdominal bandage or wet girdle at night "to good advantage".

She concludes, "Cool bathing of the parts affected is also beneficial".

Thanks to Ellen White's influence, the Kellogg brothers were inspired to develop cold corn flakes, as hot porridge could "heat the blood" with undesirable results!

She sternly warned against using feather beds for the same reasons, but I found a letter from her asking someone to send her her featherbed! (EGW Vol 3, p. 341).

She also developed a "reform dress" on instructions from God, which was a bulky affair with pants under a long dress. She gave up on wearing hers finally, and so did the other women, after years of suffering discomfort.

Other assorted nonsense included Angels needing golden cards as gate passes to get in and out of heaven. (Early Writings p. 37-39),

She also "traveled" to other planets in her visions, and also claimed to have met Enoch (more necromancy). (EGW: The Early Years Vol.1 p. 114; p.157).

She taught that certain races of men are the result of amalgamation between man and beast. (SG Vol 3, p. 64,75). Which races? 'Colored People' and Native Americans! []

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: Sparky ()
Date: April 23, 2011 02:12AM

Here is an article about "End Time Groups" like Trumpet Call and Speed "Timothy" Rathbun:


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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: gracevslaw ()
Date: April 23, 2011 07:50PM

@SalehSaleh i'm so sorry that you've had to go through all of this. I can so totally relate with you on being counseled by Trent in a condescending tone and made to feel horrible and less than human. I've heard more than one person say this about his counseling techniques & also say that most if not ALL of his counseling tricks are not his own but are plagiarized from other sources. Sad but sounds like another EGW. Maybe alot of cult members are into plagiarism that they like to call their own. IDK.

I hate the spiritual abuse and the carnage that these cult ppl are causing and leaving in their wakes while they sit back and enjoy getting everyone to work hard when they hardly work @ all. I"ve seen this with my own eyes. I hate what this is and has done to us!!! It really makes me so angry!!!!

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: gracevslaw ()
Date: April 23, 2011 07:53PM

@SalehSaleh, all of this information is so important and I cannot thank you enough for providing it. it's obvious that you are doing alot of recovery work and i am so grateful for you sharing your fruits of your labor with us. i am a slow reader and i am looking forward to learning recovering and sharing!!!!

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: SelahSelah ()
Date: April 25, 2011 10:27AM

Wow, everyone should watch this video right away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is an interesting documentary titled-'Seventh-day Adventism - The Spirit Behind the Church'
"This hard-hitting, eye opening documentary explores the teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, it's origins and the changes which have occurred throughout the years. It examines the claims of the religion's founder, the late prophetess Ellen G. White, and compares her unique beliefs with Biblical truth. You will meet a number of former high-ranking church leaders, many of them fourth generation members, and discover what happened when they embarked on a journey to uncover the truth about their organization. You will be shocked by what they found."

This one is pretty good too.
Seventh Day Adventist - Dr. Walter Martin -v- Editor of the Adventist Review Part 1 of 8

Also these video shows how SDAism has a link to pagan worship that they preach so adamantly against. Ellen White taught that her god's throne is in the constellation Orion!!! (*note-where pagans also said their god dwelled*) that represents the pagan god Osiris.
Ellen G. White and Freemasonry: The Seventh-Day Adventist Cult Of Orion Exposed 1 / 3

I don't know about you guys but this reminds me a a little bit too much of "Galactic" religion's teaching's like those of Scientology and Mormonisms planets "Oliblish" and "Kolob". Mormonism is polytheistic at it's core because they believe there are an infinite number of gods. However, their greatest god's (who was once a man and that men can become gods *they take the context of Psalm 82:6 a little too far* and as such will be a god to another world -it's a cornerstone of LDS theology) throne is nearest to Kolob, and also how Mormons believe they will rule their own planets, they have a mother God and are literal spirit children, etc. Which is a whole other nauseating headache of it's own and I really don't want to get into it. Even so, If anyone doesn't believe me I can provide the scriptures/ teachings of the LDS for you, I just don't want to make this all about Mormons but I think it is important to see the similarities. I know that one or two of the members have a Mormon or SDAs background so it might be easier for them to accept the letters as being doctrinal more so than one who was not exposed to these teachings.

Here is just a little that I found from Mormons that reminded me of the UCG, SDAs or letters.

And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." (Doctrine and Covenants, Abraham 3)

Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh. Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham, as he offered sacrifice upon an altar, which he had built unto the Lord. (Facsimile 2)

Mortal person who overcome all things and gain an ultimate exaltation will live eternally in the family unit and have spirit children, thus becoming Eternal Fathers and Eternal Mothers. (D&C 132:19-32) Indeed the formal pronouncement of the Church, issued by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve states: "So far as the stages of eternal progression and attainment have been made known through divine revelation, we are to understand that only resurrected and glorified beings can become parents of spirit offspring." (Man: His Origins and Destiny, p 129)

We believe that almost everyone from Earth once lived in outer space -- but there are rare exceptions. Three people who lived a long long time ago and never died. They trek our planet doing good deeds to Mormons who are worthy. The story of all this is in ( the Book of Mormon, 3-Nephi 28.)

The goal of every LDS man is to attain perfection and become a god of his own world: "…since mortal beings are the spirit children of Heavenly Parents as pointed out in the last chapter, the ultimate possibility is for some of them to become exalted to Godhood." (The Gospel Through the Ages, Hunter, p.104.)

ALL EXALTED MEN BECOME GODS. To believe that Adam is a god should not be strange to any person who accepts the Bible…. Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god. (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.97 - p.98)

I for one, have trouble trusting anything that comes out of the SDAs teaching since their high authority is from Ellen White, not God! Since she plagiarized most, if not all her material and said it was God "delivered" that would make her a liar.

How then, could we believe anything she said as truth coming from God? "Does not a little poison contaminate the whole glass?"- paraphrasing something the group used to say to represent corrupt man made traditions/doctrines.

Here is also something I think is absolutely crucial and very important for all ex members/ exiting members/ families involved to read.
It shows a lot of similarities with the SDA movement that relates to the letters. The SDAs refer to it as the "three angels message."
In particular, I see relations with the letters teachings like SDAs saying that Ellen White's message must be preached to all the world (not the gospel of Christ which is the real context the bible refers to.) In this message, she alienates all other churches (commonly referring to them as "Babylon") and tells them to come out of their churches and join hers and Millers message or they will receive the mark of the beast. I would post it (and may later because I fear no one will link to it) but for now it is too long for this post, but very important.

One thing in particular that sort of rang a bell for me was the SDAs teaching of a shut door. There were several letters from the Trumpet Call Of God Online talking about "The Door Must Be Shut", "The Door is Shutting", but I also noticed a few terminologies (of course I know most of these are the bible as well so that won't hold up too well of an argument) anyways, here are a few terminologies that either the SDAs or Mormons (or maybe both since they both copied others) used in some of their teachings that I came across, that the letters/ bible studies would also use. "By word and in deed", "A Peculiar People", "the Lord's flock", " Lord's little flock", "Lords table", that's all I can think of for now, but if I remember anymore I will let you know.

Here is some info on Ellen Whites Shut Door:
When Christ failed to return in 1844 there was great confusion among the followers of William Miller. Most of the Millerites returned to their churches, but others were too ashamed to admit their error or felt too humiliated to return. It was among these people that the "shut door" teaching developed. The teaching is based upon the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25. These people firmly believed that they had given the "midnight cry" (Matt. 25:6) and that Jesus, the Bridegroom, came to the "marriage supper" on October 22, 1844:

And while they [foolish virgins] went to buy, the Bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with Him to the marriage; and the door was shut. Matt. 25:10

They taught that on October 22, 1844, Christ got up and moved from the Holy Place into the Most Holy Place. In so doing, Christ shut the door of salvation to all except those Advent believers who had joined Miller's 1844 movement. They believed that Jesus was "shut in" with His special people, preparing them to receive His kingdom. They believed that since October 22, 1844, Christ was ministering only to Israel (the Advent believers). They taught that Christ was testing His children on certain points of truth, such as the Sabbath, and that their work for the salvation of others was finished.

Joseph Bates held the view that there would be a 7-year period where Christ would test His children and that Christ would return to earth in 1851. In 1848 there was a war in Europe, and later a pestilence occurred, and the Advent believers took these events as signs that the time of trouble had commenced.

Ellen White had visions supporting this "shut door" doctrine, and James White's paper--Present Truth--trumpeted the shut door teaching up until late 1850. The doctrine was rejected by William Miller and most of the leaders in the Millerite movement. It was accepted by a small number of followers of Joseph Bates and the Whites.

In early 1850 the "shut door" began to slip open. Those who were Christians in 1844, but had not had opportunity to hear Miller's time-setting message were allowed to enter the church. Near the end of 1850 the "shut door" opened a little further. The Adventists were shocked when a man who was a non-believer in 1844 accepted the Adventist message in August, 1850, and started attending their meetings. It was their first conversion of an unconverted man since 1844!

In 1851, when it became evident that Christ was not going to return, the Whites modified their teaching on the "shut door". James White abandoned the Present Truth magazine and started a new magazine, the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. He reprinted his wife's visions in 1851, but was careful to remove those parts referencing the erroneous "shut door" doctrine. The doctrine disappeared from the writings of the leaders and most of the new converts into the church never heard of it nor had any idea that their prophet had seen a "shut door" of salvation in her visions.

A lot more of the Shut Door.

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: April 25, 2011 08:27PM


The topic and focus of this thread is "Trumpet Call of God" and Timothy Rathbun, not the SDA, Mormons or other groups.

Please stay focused on the topic.

If you wish to comment about other groups find those relevant threads or start a new thread on that subject/group.

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