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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: frogla ()
Date: March 05, 2011 02:22PM

Some interesting cult facts and true stories

A cult is a group with an authoritarian structure and established, rote methods for stopping thoughts, which centers to the exclusion of other activities on the goals and desires of the group's leader or leaders.

This separates cults from "normal" religions, political affiliations, and belief systems which, although perhaps sharing many of the aspects of a cult, do not harmfully interfere with the lives of their members.

I feel that this use of the word "cult" makes a meaningful and useful distinction between harmless and harmful groups, that it clearly and without ambiguity defines a phenomenon which deserves to have a word which can be used to convey the notion of such groups.

The Cult Leader as Psychopath

Cultic groups and relationships are formed primarily to meet specific emotional needs of the leader, many of whom suffer from one or another emotional or character disorder. Few, if any, cult leaders subject themselves to the psychological tests or prolonged clinical interviews that allow for an accurate diagnosis. However, researchers and clinicians who have observed these individuals describe them variously as neurotic, psychotic, on a spectrum exhibiting neurotic, sociopathic, and psychotic characteristics, or suffering from a diagnosed personality disorder.

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret." Dr. Robert Hare

Cult leaders change their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and litigation, to increase income, and to recruit a range of members. Cult leaders have an innate ability to attract followers who have the skills and connections that the leaders lack. The longevity of the group is dependent on the willingness of leadership to adapt as needed and preserve the group. Frequently, when illegal or immoral activities are exposed to the public, the cult leader will relocate, sometimes taking followers with him. He will keep a low profile, only to resurface later with a new name, a new front group, and perhaps a new twist on the scam.

The cult leader tends to move around a lot, making countless efforts at "starting over while seeking out Fertile new ground to exploit. One day he may appear as a rock musician, the next a messiah; one day a used car salesman, the next the founder of a mass self-transformation program; one day a college professor, the next the new "Lenin" bringing revolution to America.

The flip side of this erratic life planning is the all-encompassing promise for the future that the cult leader makes to his followers. Many groups claim as their goal world domination or salvation at the Apocalypse. The leader is the first to proclaim the utopian nature of the group, which is usually simply another justification for irrational behavior and stringent controls.

The leader's sense of entitlement is often demonstrated by the contrast between his luxurious lifestyle and the impoverishment of his followers. Most cult leaders arc supported by gifts and donations from their followers, who may be pressured to turn over much of their income and worldly possessions to the group. Slavery, enforced prostitution, and a variety of illegal acts for the benefit of the leader are common in a cult milieu.

They may complain of being "burned out" due to the burden of "caring for" their followers, sometimes stating they do not have long to live, instilling fear and guilt in their devotees and encouraging further servitude. they are highly sensitive to their own pain and tend to be hypochondriacs, which often conflicts with their public image of superhuman self-control and healing abilities.

According to them, the illnesses they don't get are due to their powers, while the ones they do get are caused by their "compassion" in taking on their disciples' karma or solving the group's problems. This of course is another guru trick.

Cult members identify with their leaders, and these identifications supplant previous identifications made with parental figures early in life. Because cult leaders generally are paranoid individuals, they indoctrinate their members into a paranoid vision of the world. (Tobias & Lalich, 1994) That is, cult leaders tend to ascribe the worst motives to the behavior of others. When individuals leave the cult, some may continue to have the paranoid feelings of the cult leader. For others, an awareness exists that their trusting nature prior to the cult made them more vulnerable to cult recruitment. For most former cultists, at a time that their sense of self is quite fragile, this paranoid attitude protects them from being unduly influenced by others.

However, in marital relationships, this paranoia can be destructive. When an individual who has been in a cult starts a relationship with someone with no prior cult involvement, the former cultist might interpret his or her partner’s behavior suspiciously or see negative motives behind the partner’s behavior.

if there is a conflict about certain feelings, those feelings experienced but forbidden often are projected onto the marital partner. The cult leader made members feel as though they were selfish for any expression of self-interest. The leader’s attitude that a cult member should have no self-interest can be projected onto the marital partner.

"When you meet the friendliest people you have ever known, who introduce you to the most loving group of people you've ever encountered, and you find the leader to be the most inspired, caring, compassionate and understanding person you've ever met, and then you learn that that cause of the group is something you never dared hope could be accomplished, and all of this sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true!"

"Don't give up your education, your hopes and ambitions, to follow a rainbow."
- Jenne Mills, former member of the People's Temple and subsequent victim of assassination a year following the November 18, 1978 Jonestown suicide/murders of 911 adults and children.

Almost everything we had learned before “in the system,” Berg said, was wrong and he was going to re-educate us. We were like the Children of Israel and he was our “Moses,” leading us out of “Egypt.” Our modern-day “Mo” began to write letter after letter from his secluded hideaway, and these were printed and sent to his “children” around the world. Everything from politics, economics, sex, child care, health, car repair, camping, and the Bible was “explained” to us and its true meaning shared with us “for­tunate few.” By 1973, these Mo Letters became the main thrust of our witnessing as we left our Bibles at home and passed out his provocatively illustrated ramblings and ravings to the unsuspecting masses in return for a donation to “help our work with youth.”

When someone leaves an all-encom­passing cult, it’s a major upheaval — not only to find a job, a house, start a career, and make friends, but also in struggling spiritual­ly to overcome months or years of mental programming and conditioned patterns of thinking. There is also an emotional struggle with feelings of bitterness, loneliness, and hopelessness.

"Now, as can be expected, they have also seperated her from me and her two step children. All by twisting doctrine to support their objectives.
My wife will no longer speak with her family at all. They have sent Christmas gifts which she refused to open. She has virtually stopped contact with me as well, short of the occasional email. Their control over her is total and absolute. I don't know if she can ever be rescued from this.

They moved my wife and kids into Anchor's so called 'Isaac House' for the second time, this iswhat she gave for a reason "I know you are working hard and doing everything you can - but just performing works doesn't get usanywhere," followed up with "It's God's job to make sure we survive. It's our job to teach the kids trust in Him, love and respect for oneanother and Him, character and so on... no matter what the circumstance." -Brian Dobson

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: frogla ()
Date: March 05, 2011 02:32PM

The-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it prophecies

For millennium, people have been predicting the year, the month and sometimes the day when:
A violent and sudden disaster will terminate all life on earth;

Major social and political upheavals will be experienced around the world;

The war of Armageddon will take place in the Middle East;

God will pour horrendous wrath on most of humanity; and/or

Christ will return in what is referred to as the second coming, accompanied by a group of avenging angels who will commit the largest genocide in human history: over 2 billion people are to be assassinated.

The prophesiers have almost always predicted that some major events would happen in their own immediate future. Both Jesus and Paul anticipated that "the end" would happen sometime in the first century CE. They were wrong. Thousands have predicted major events ever since.

All of these predictions share one attribute: none has ever come true.

"The way to tell when one of these groups becomes dangerous is when the focus becomes not God, or Scripture, but the person of the leader."

The only deprogrammer ever to work with members of the ill-fated Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas, Ross said cult leader David Koresh was a textbook example of a leader-focus.

"It came down to you did what David said," he said. "He had an answer for everything."

Ross said he asked former followers of Koresh whether the cult leader tolerated disagreements with his interpretation of the Bible. Those he asked said Koresh would allow argument but would never admit he was wrong or mistaken in his interpretation.

Bible-based cults like Koresh's tend to be extremely authoritarian and legalistic, Ross said. As an example of legalism, he mentioned certain practices of the United Pentecostal Church, which prohibited women from cutting their hair, wearing jewelry or immodest clothing. Men must have conservative haircuts and shun jewelry.

People from all walks of life, socioeconomic classes and levels of intelligence may be targeted by cults. When someone is feeling lonely or isolated, they vulnerable.

Today, especially among people ages 18 to 26, there is a desire to find someone to provide answers to life's questions, Ross said. "We live in a country with so many choices, and these groups can give a list of what is right, what is wrong, and give people a purpose." become vulnerable.

Today, especially among people ages 18 to 26, there is a desire to find someone to provide answers to life's questions, Ross said. "We live in a country with so many choices, and these groups can give a list of what is right, what is wrong, and give people a purpose."

Miller founded Concerned Christians in the early 1980s, preaching against the evils of cults and New Age movements. Along with Honsberger and Roggeman, Miller originally counseled people involved in cults and so-called New Age religions. In October of 1996, Roggeman, Honsberger and a seminary student confronted Miller with their concern of his control over several people in his group. During the confrontation, the three men claimed Miller began speaking to them, according to Miller, " God's own voice..." while referring to himself as "Kim" in the third person.

The group's leader, 44-year old Monte Kim Miller, espoused his belief that an apocalypse would strike Denver, and stated his intention to die in the streets of Jerusalem in December 1999, only to rise again in three days. Miller has made other doomsday predictions and claims to be the voice of God.

Miller might have started the movement as a financial scam. Nevertheless, the group transformed itself into an apocalyptic personality cult. Miller, 44, claimed that God was using him as a vehicle to speak to his followers. After prophesying that the Apocalypse would begin with an earthquake in Denver on October 16, the cult dropped from sight. It is believed they might be in Mexico en route to Jerusalem.

My fear is that, if (Miller's prophecy) doesn't happen, he's liable to do something bizarre just to ensure his place in history. And there's nobody in his group who could say, 'I don't think the Bible says that.' He has that much control.You question him - you question God."

The May 2011 end of times paranoia started with Harold Camping of Family Radio, who says that mathematics in the bible point to that date as the day that Jesus Christ is coming back to declare judgment on the world.

Believers are encouraged to make signs and distribute them in order to warn humanity of its impending doom and to repent and find Jesus.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2011 02:49PM by frogla.

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: LLG ()
Date: March 07, 2011 12:03AM


Thank you for sharing these insights, they are right on the money!


"When you meet the friendliest people you have ever known, who introduce you to the most loving group of people you've ever encountered, and you find the leader to be the most inspired, caring, compassionate and understanding person you've ever met, and then you learn that that cause of the group is something you never dared hope could be accomplished, and all of this sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true!"

This is exactly right, things seem wonderful on the inside and everyone seems like your best friend and family, and the promises you are fed if you follow them are irrisistable. I had a few responses from Tim himself when I contacted him about various things. One was about an email I recieved saying someone had prayed about it and was told they were to give me a bunch of money. Normally I would have passed this by, but because they said they prayed about it, I thought maybe it is real. Since I knew someone I thought had an inside line with God, I asked him about it. His response: "Its a Scam!" ... hmm..

In the article about psychopaths it mentions the leaders inability to have true emotions and be sympathetic of thier members suffering. I'll recount one such instance that happened to me. I shared with Tim and Amy a very harsh experience I went through at home while trying to obey the letters. The reason was because I wanted to hear a letter that I knew one of the other prophets in the group had apparently recieved for me months prior, I had heard that the letter told me how much God loved me. I needed to hear that at that moment. Amy seemed fairly genuine in her sympathetic response, but Tim, while his words were meant to be sypmathetic, seemed empty. I needed to feel loved and accepted, but I'm not sure I ever experienced a time when Tim would actually portray love or sypmathy. There were times in our studies where he seemed to be loving, but never in personal experiences, it definitely looking back now seems like it was staged emotion only.

Thanks again for sharing this wealth of information frogla!

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: frogla ()
Date: March 08, 2011 04:08AM

@salehsaleh your inbox if full again! :)

@LLG ((hugs)) bad timothy and amy! that's interesting that you were even able to talk with speed and amy cuz i don't think that many peeps get to unless you are on the "inside" inside. it's also interesting that you got an empty response from tim because from what i hear he cries alot when it comes to the lord. oh yeah! tim amy and the flockers don't like ppl they only love god. *sarcasm*

btw, did you notice that i quoted rick ross in one of those articles? :)

@here's another really good article that i found recently []

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: LLG ()
Date: March 17, 2011 05:13AM

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted for a while as I've been busy with other things, sorry.

Just as more validation of some of the things being said about this group and how it relates to cult behaviour, I thought I would let you know I had my first "floating" experience today. I work in an office and we were in a meeting, skype was used to allow one of our team members who was at home to join in. I haven't used skype for quite a while so that's likely why this never happened before I guess. Whenever someone wrote a text message through skype the signature skype sound would go off, whenever I heard that sound I instantly felt my head get fuzzy and would kind of go off in la la land for about 30 seconds or so. It was quite frustrating actually, I guess I never thought of that before as being something that would trigger a "floating" experience but it makes sense because the texting was almost constant throughout every online study, people were texting comments and questions even while the leader was teaching because not everyone used thier mic so that was how they communicated.

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: gracevslaw ()
Date: March 18, 2011 02:03AM


I'm sorry to hear about your "floating" experience. I've had to deal with that. Do you have some help with that? If not then I can give you some information on "floating".

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: Sparky ()
Date: March 18, 2011 04:00AM

gracevslaw, please tell us about "floating". Is this similar to feeling "out-of-body" when you are feeling helpless/out of control of your life?

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: LLG ()
Date: March 18, 2011 06:32AM

@ gracevslaw - Thankyou, I would love to hear any information or experience you have had with floating. I've never experienced it before and so I was really caught off guard when it happened to me.

@ Sparky - I'm not sure what happened to gracevslaw, but my experience wasn't really an "out-of-body" experience. It was more like being in a daydream state in a way but without really thinking about anything. I have a gap now in my memory, all I remember is hearing the skype sound and then nothing, then sort of realizing someone was talking to me but unable to really make out what they were saying. Then i remember some thoughts of the days in the cult going through my mind and then flashes of visual images from the person talking to me and forcing myself to come back (which took alot of effort). And now I have no idea what happened from the time the skype sound went off till the time I realized someone was in the middle of talking to me but being unable to really understand, and only patchy memories for about a min or so after that. The second time it happened I was more ready for it (I was nervous the whole time after the first experience so I was anticipating it) and so I was able to focus hard and not let my mind check out completely like that, but it was still fuzzy, kind of like being in a dream or something.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: ryyra ()
Date: March 19, 2011 01:30AM


So this is some sort of trance or hypnotic state experienced by members of the trumpet call group? Like something induced by the continual ding or bell that one hears on skype?

I've never been on skype so I'm not sure how that works. But is that what it is? Are all members somewhat hypnotized or in trance like states during these skype meetings? Or am I totally misunderstanding?

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Re: Trumpet Call of God
Posted by: LLG ()
Date: March 19, 2011 05:08AM

@ ryya - no, I've never had that happen before. In the group I don't remember ever being induced into a trance like state, other than one time I saw a vision that may have been caused because I was fasting all day and had a very stressful experience while I was fasting. I'm not sure what happened really, I'm not even sure if I called it the right thing by calling it a "floating" experience, I just know thats what happened to me. That sound goes off all the time in the studies, so it became like background noise that was just constant, so I'm not sure if that made my brain cue off on that like a trigger when I heard it again or what but I never experienced it while I was in the flock at all, just now after I'm out.

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