otter there is much more financial, and other destruction it created in my life. I will spare the details here. But, let me be very clear that they are catastrophic in nature.

In time I will post them for all to read. In time. At present, I am working with a good pyschiatrist to sort out the mess at the moment.

I am working on getting myself to be able to get back to the basics of my life first.

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Rswinters
Otter long enough to have the things that I created to go atomic and blast a crater across every aspect of my life...

Rs, wasn’t sure if you got the word, but here it is:

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rrmoderator
formerimpactgrad:

Did some checking.

Otter and beaver1 apparently are the same person.

Posting under more than one name is a violation of the rules.

Otter and beaver1 have both been banned from this board.

Beware of river rodents.

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Rswinters
I spent over 2 years and over 10 thousand dollars spent going through Klemmers seminars. Plus another 10 thousand for a ex-wife that I remarried and got her into Klemmer and watched it create a worse monster in her than the one I divorced the first time around as she chose to go the path of arrogance as many LGAT participants have gone. She is filing for divorce and this marriage lasted 7 months before war broke out between us versus the 5 months in our first marriage.

I made my intention in Klemmer to be a remarriage, and my wife set her intention to be selfish, and narcisstic. All hell broke lose, and must destruction from this toxic relationship that I would never in a million years of remarried her except for the very overpowering emotional influence of Klemmer & Associates seminars upon my life.

It produced one huge crater from the atomic blast it produced in my life as I made choices that Klemmer influenced me to make that would never have been considered before my 2 year slip into insanity into a philosphy based on "The Secret"

Rs, I have read many of your posts, and the details of the depth of your conviction to Klemmer and Asses always tugs at my...sense of ourage strings. I am glad you are getting back. I spent approximately 40 grand on trainings and other financial "opportunities" the training "empowered" me into. I wish I could say the money was the most expensive thing they took from me.

When I read the accounts of destroyed lives and relationships that are posted here I keep thinking of a pamphlet or booklet or book with a collection of them. In very human terms they illustrate the ugly & untold side of the lgat business. I'm not sure how it could happen but I think it would be great if people who are considering entering into an lgat could read these accounts. Well, the webpage is here. I'd like to see a compilation of some of these outrageous stories (<--I don't like using that word, which pisses me off too!). I just sit here and shake my head when I read them. They so indict lgats. I wish the word could get out more & more. Maybe it is. The power in these stories is that there is clearly a pattern. And the stories are scripted the same. THE EFF-ING LGAT SCRIPT! Strikes again and again and again and again, [i:82d304b900]unlike[/i:82d304b900] lightning!

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exImpact

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question lady
If there is still a stigma attached to counseling, how to we remove it? I[i:bda8bef7fd]f people find a group less threatening than going to a counselor, could qualified mental health practitioners give presentations in a group format that could help people? Do counselor's advertisements focus more on what is wrong with people than on how to improve their lives?[/i:bda8bef7fd]

My interest is understanding what can be done to prevent harm to people.

YES, this is my MAIN concern!!! Again, I apologize if I implied that I was questioning your motives, I wasn’t. I was getting hung up on this Otter business. I get, well, LIVID when it seems someone is trivializing the trauma these LGAT's cause. For every person who has family come here asking for help there are, well who knows how many, who do not. My empathy can still overcome my sense. I live with this sh** every day, and though it gets better, it isn't gone.

exImpact, I know you weren't questioning my motives. I probably wasn't very clear about what I found of interest in Otter's post.

Perhaps Otter/Beaver didn't push my bottons as much as yours because I wasn't in Impact and it's not Impact that has snared my husband'. I'm ex-mormon for a long long time but just put me in Temple Square for an hour and I'll need a week of therapy. :x

Whatever Otter/Beaver's reasons for posting here, the posts just showed how crazy this sh *& is. And evidently Otter a.k.a Beaver lied to us too. Let's hope we don't hear from Muskrat anytime soon.

I got riled by the insanity loop of the posts given by otter/beaver also.

Nothing like a merry=go=round of never ending garbage being spewed by a brainwashed LGAT participant to stir up the pain of being taken to the cleaners financially, and left with a blast zone with no end in my life as the ultimate result.

I know why I chose to embrace Klemmer & Associates and stop the professional counseling I was in for over a year before going to Klemmer.

I wanted a short cut. I wanted to skip the emoitonal hard work of facing the narcissism in myself.

When I was confronted with the powerful first seminar weekend and how it confronted me on my core belief systems in a manner that I could not deny it.

I began a emotional rollercoaster ride that took me deeper into narcissism as the basis to operate in my life on.

Well, its all said and done. I am back to the same professional counselor that I was seeing prior to my two year insanity trip into Klemmer.

My professional counselor accepted me back as a patient, and told me he saw the destruction coming into my life that it brought.

He could not stop it, as I would not have listened to him back then.

Now I am paying for my arrogance. BIG TIME

Unlike some of the members of this thread, the only thing I ever did with Impact Trainings was attend one their guest presentations, or recruitment nights for Quest. Do not disregard my comments because of this, some of my close family members have been participants of TIT 3 (in the fullest degree, Mt. Shasta, Hans Berger’s Doctrines, etc.) for years and I know much of their experiences, and eventual trauma and suffering after leaving the cult.

The reason I went to the guest presentation was because this close family member would bring up how Impact changed their life every time we would meet. After at least a year of hearing “Well then you don’t trust me” from them when I would say “no”, I eventually felt guilty enough to say “yes” to attending the guest presentation. Impact starts manipulation early.

Sally Berger was the main speaker during the presentation, I was there for at least two and half hours. We talked about animals and how they have different domains or characteristics comparable to humans, we were asked to meditate during a brief music session with our eyes closed that would help us focus or see into our inner self (like I said, the manipulation starts EARLY). But the thing that drove me from that place more than anything was that near the end of the presentation every person was coupled with a complete stranger that had gone through various parts of the trainings. We sat face to face, knee to knee. During this time I found myself listening to them speak of something terribly personal involving how Impact changed their life, then I was asked to share something from my life (with a complete stranger, mind you) that was life changing or deeply personal. After a testimonial from them and an awkward “I don’t think I want to share that” from me, then we were put into a very “Hard Sell” situation (I discovered this term after reading these forums). This new “friend” of mine almost ordered me to go sign up for Quest, after Sally Berger from her microphone commanded something like, “Order forms are in the back of the room, go now.” I got up, smiled at my “friend”, and said “No thanks, I’m fine.” Then a trainer saw me going for the door and said in a very guilt infusing tone, “Aren’t you going to the back of the room to register for Quest?” I didn’t know this person either. “No, I’m fine”, I said. I got a really “pity you” look from them, then went into the lobby. My close family member was the final person to seem disappointed that I was not going to sign up. I have never returned. As a side note, I commented to them (my family member) that the training center and its rooms, and the guest presentation, were shoddy and cheap after I calculated in my head how much Impact would be raking just from Quest tuitions alone. His response was, “You have no idea what it costs to run a training. Most of the money goes back into the building and ropes course.” My response was “Whatever…………what’s a rope course?”


Since then I have seen my family members, who are closer and more beloved to me than anyone, go through an extremely painful process of realizing that the Bergers are not interested in the positive or negative effects of their “trainings”, but rather it is more important that everything goes the way they want it to go. I have read every page of this forum. All the reports of being mental conditioned , falling victim to unqualified trainers, being deceived into thinking Impact is a place for therapy when in fact it is a religious cult headed by the Bergers, all this is what my family experienced. I am horrified that I could have lost part of family to their “new Impact” family.

For being an “Impact apologist”, Otter really didn’t do any favors for the Bergers with what he said, or attempted to say, in this forum. He never addressed the fact that the Impact Trainings, the Bergers in particular, from the first day in Quest on, ultimately want people in their religious cult. Look at their website, no explanations at all on what goes on in TIT, or Summit, or Quest. Not only that, but Otter absolutely danced around the core issues brought to light by Eximpact and Formergrad and others, including Rick Ross. As FormerGrad has said, if anyone wants to defend Impact, go for it, but realize you have to deal with ALL the issues and claims made against them on this forum. Saying,“Well, you just had a bad experience, live with it” deals with none of these core complaints, and restates and understates what has been talked about already.

Wow I've read a bunch of these pages and I have to say, from what y'all have said these Large Group thingies really suck people in!!!!!!

How do they do that so well?

I would be seriously pissed if I spent 40 grand on this stuff and found out it was brainwashing me!!!!! And to top it off, you found it did nothing but bad things to you!!!!!! Oh that sounds awful!!!! How on God's Green Earth do these places stay open?

Don't you guys want to get back at them now? How can you do that? This forum isn't enough. I'd be like "Hey Hanz, meet my friend Smith and my friend Weston."

I have heard about these groups sucking in people but the rage and brainwashing you guys are talking about is beyond description. If I had that much rage I'd probably shoot myself after shooting Hanz.

Thank you for telling us about the damage these places do. You are doing a great service to everyone who reads this.

(Disclaimer I don't suggest shooting anyone for their misdeeds. Just a figure of speech)

ex,
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post even though it was a little off the currant conversation. Now I understand a little better why my in-law refuses to continue having a conversation with some one if they use these words. Thanks agian

I have an idea that come from yesterdays insane interaction with the topic yesterday.

Heres the topic for thread. Calling all lawyers, judges, legal aids, and legal minded people to help in a brainstorming conversation to discover ways to legally inflict blows to LGAT's, and ways to expose them to the public eye.

I will post another post with why I feel this is a good topic to have.