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exImpact
I don't see why this distinction you are pointing out is important or significant. It only seems that this merely confirms that there is a market that exists for these trainings, and where there is a market, it can be exploited. But this, I do not think, requires any more confirmation. Scams exploit ignorance. Easy peasy. Why is this significant to you? I do admit, just because I don't think its important doesn’t mean it is not, but I don't understand what value you see here.

It seems important to me because I would like to stop the scourge of LGATs and I think part of doing that is understanding why people choose them rather than professional mental health services. If there is still a stigma attached to counseling, how to we remove it? If people find a group less threatening than going to a counselor, could qualified mental health practitioners give presentations in a group format that could help people? Do counselor's advertisements focus more on what is wrong with people than on how to improve their lives?

My interest is understanding what can be done to prevent harm to people.

ExImpact, I did not lie at any time on this board. You assume too much. I did not at any time say to what level I attended Impact. I simply said I was an Impact grad and left it at that. You have made your own conclusions and I am not here to divorce you from them. I also never said I was in Yellowstone with my fiancee. Again, your assumptions.

You are right, I don't answer all questions. Neither do you.

Spiritual, thank you for sharing. And thank you for the benefit of the doubt. I know people do have bad experiences and, having a good one myself, I have a hard time reconciling that fact. I feel badly for anyone who's experience makes them jaded or resentful because I genuinely don't believe Impact wants to make anyone worse off in life. Perhaps the most terrible fact is that they want to do a service for us,and sometimes end up making it worse. As some say, at that time they absolve themselves from that individual. I don't condone that behavior. Neither do I condone attending Impact as a substitute for good therapy.

That would be a neat survey to take - asking grads years later how they feel about their training.

exImpact, I was not laughing at anyone's pain. Again you saw something that just wasn't there. I was laughing at the posts that were pointed at me.

beaver1, thank you for sharing your experience.

A question - does anyone believe that LGAT's as they are now could be changed to make them more prone to having the maximum number of grads who aren't screwed up? Is that possible? If so, what changes would you suggest?

disclaimer: I haven't read all the posts in the thread so if I'm repeating something that's why.

Reading question lady's question as to why people might go to a "seminar" over therapy, I think a couple factors are that lgats promise "happy ever after" & total success in just a matter of days (quick, magic fix). . . [i:5bfdc88320]and[/i:5bfdc88320] . . . the recruitment/marketing is very seductive. Therapy doesn't do either of those things. There is manipulation and deception involved in conning people into lgats that one is not subjected to when it comes to therapy.

Just a thought off the top of my head when I read ql's post.

Otter:

Thanks for the frank admissions here.

Let's review what you have admitted on this board.

You see Impact as a substitute for professional counseling, even though its leaders have no specific licensing or credentials to practice professional counseling.

You also also admitted that you did disclose otherwise confidential personal information within Impact training sessions.

You specifically have verified that there is no meaningful accountability at Impact regarding confidentiality.

Thanks for verifying these points publicly as an Impact participant.

formerimpactgrad:

Did some checking.

Otter and beaver1 apparently are the same person.

Posting under more than one name is a violation of the rules.

Otter and beaver1 have both been banned from this board.

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skeptic
disclaimer: I haven't read all the posts in the thread so if I'm repeating something that's why.

Reading question lady's question as to why people might go to a "seminar" over therapy, I think a couple factors are that lgats promise "happy ever after" & total success in just a matter of days (quick, magic fix). . . [i:89f88e1ece]and[/i:89f88e1ece] . . . the recruitment/marketing is very seductive. Therapy doesn't do either of those things. There is manipulation and deception involved in conning people into lgats that one is not subjected to when it comes to therapy.

Just a thought off the top of my head when I read ql's post.

Ugh, I am sorry, I did not read your original question Q-Lady, that was my mistake. All of the numerous posts were distracting me.

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question lady
If there is still a stigma attached to counseling, how to we remove it? I[i:89f88e1ece]f people find a group less threatening than going to a counselor, could qualified mental health practitioners give presentations in a group format that could help people? Do counselor's advertisements focus more on what is wrong with people than on how to improve their lives?[/i:89f88e1ece]

My interest is understanding what can be done to prevent harm to people.

YES, this is my MAIN concern!!! Again, I apologize if I implied that I was questioning your motives, I wasn’t. I was getting hung up on this Otter business. I get, well, LIVID when it seems someone is trivializing the trauma these LGAT's cause. For every person who has family come here asking for help there are, well who knows how many, who do not. My empathy can still overcome my sense. I live with this sh** every day, and though it gets better, it isn't gone.

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jeffaroonyo24
So what does Hans teach about Joseph Smith?

That he was a prophet and a good man, in fact he has been referred to as a Master of Light.

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rrmoderator
formerimpactgrad:

Did some checking.

Otter and beaver1 apparently are the same person.

Posting under more than one name is a violation of the rules.

Otter and beaver1 have both been banned from this board.

Thank you. After reading Otter's last post I realized that giving the benefit of the doubt to any graduate of any LGAT that is unwilling to look at the fact that some type of brainwashing could have occured in their experience is a bad idea.

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Otter
Spiritual, thank you for sharing. And thank you for the benefit of the doubt. I know people do have bad experiences and, having a good one myself, I have a hard time reconciling that fact. I feel badly for anyone who's experience makes them jaded or resentful because I genuinely don't believe Impact wants to make anyone worse off in life. Perhaps the most terrible fact is that they want to do a service for us,and sometimes end up making it worse. As some say, at that time they absolve themselves from that individual. I don't condone that behavior. Neither do I condone attending Impact as a substitute for good therapy.

I think that by the sheer fact that they know people are being hurt, divorces are occurring and otherwise strong family, friend, and professional ties are being damaged as a result of this training, makes the trainers and staff culpable for the result. Impact may not come out and say that their intention is to hurt people, but the fact they know it is happening and that they're unwilling to change what they're doing is the exact reason why they are the problem. I don't see how anyone can say they don't condone the behavior described above and still be part of the organization.

When I started truly seeing what was going on behind the scenes and what Impact was really all about I couldn't stomach it anymore. I'm still in shock about how long I let things that ircked me or hit me wrong just slide by.

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SmokerSally
Former and ex,
I have some in-laws that are involved in Impact and I would really like to understand why words like help and try are so terrible to use. I know that it has been mentioned before that these words are some of the first that are labeled as bad (for lack of a better term) but not why they are not to be used. I would appreciate the info. Thanks

There is a demonstration the Quest trainer will begin when deemed appropriate. He will ask a woman up to the stage and tell her that she is going to be a part of a little performance. She will be looking for help to go somewhere (to a party or a game, once I heard they used orgy) and that she cannot get down from a hill (the stage) by herself without “help”. Then the trainer walks by, and the trainee yells something like, “Big strong man, I need to get to a party but I can’t get down the hill by myself, please help me!” Then the trainer bodily picks her up and walks her down the steps of the stage. In the second part, the trainee is coached to do the same thing but ask for “assistance” instead of help. Then the trainer, very politely, asks, “how may I assist you?”, and when she tells him, he does it. Then the trainer opens up the floor to the trainees to see what they thought the differences between the two situations were. Of course it comes down to “help” is disempowering and you give the message that a person isn’t enough to do it themselves when you “help”, and “assistance” empowers the person who requires it, keeping them in control.

Now, I am not going to say why I think that is as silly as I know it is.

The “try” lecture consists of the Quest trainer asking for a volunteer for a demonstration at the front of class. He then drops a marker on the stage and says, “try to pick it up”. The trainee invariably simply picks it up and the trainer says, “NO! [i:f878a8155f]TRY[/i:f878a8155f] to pick it up!” The trainee drops the marker and reaches for it and reaches for it and reaches for it, all the time the trainer in their ear, “try harder, you are almost there, keep trying! Etc.” but the trainee invariably fails to pick up the marker. Then the trainer says something to the effect of, “Well, so much for trying, huh?”, successfully demonstrating the axiom of Yoda the Jedi Master in the Empire strikes back (Which, by the way, they show the clip in a lift off weekend) of “Do or do not, there is no try.”

Well, do I really need to go into a debate about the existence or nonexistence of the term “Try”? I hope not. I do want to point out however that these lectures of “language coaching” and the logic behind them are crucial in the success of the mental conditioning process.

Is there anything else you would like to know?

Otter long enough to have the things that I created to go atomic and blast a crater across every aspect of my life.


I spent over 2 years and over 10 thousand dollars spent going through Klemmers seminars. Plus another 10 thousand for a ex-wife that I remarried and got her into Klemmer and watched it create a worse monster in her than the one I divorced the first time around as she chose to go the path of arrogance as many LGAT participants have gone. She is filing for divorce and this marriage lasted 7 months before war broke out between us versus the 5 months in our first marriage.

I made my intention in Klemmer to be a remarriage, and my wife set her intention to be selfish, and narcisstic. All hell broke lose, and must destruction from this toxic relationship that I would never in a million years of remarried her except for the very overpowering emotional influence of Klemmer & Associates seminars upon my life.

It produced one huge crater from the atomic blast it produced in my life as I made choices that Klemmer influenced me to make that would never have been considered before my 2 year slip into insanity into a philosphy based on "The Secret"