This was just starting up when I left MKP and really know little about it, but for the group, in light of what we read in the news today, would any sane parent send their kids to this?

[www.boystomen.org]

This is from the "Boys to men" site's information for parents. Sounds very safe, very reasonable, doesn't it?

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"The specific processes used at rites of passage are kept confidential. That is so younger members of the community do not receive the adult information before they are ready, because rites of passage are considered sacred and personal and should not be treated casually, and because rites of passage rely on a degree of theater, surprise, and spontaneous response that would be lost if participants knew in advance what was going to happen."

The thing is, a [b:63268af851]rite of passage[/b:63268af851] in a primitive society would be a sacred, meaningful ceremony, performed alongside well-known and trusted members of your social circle, your tribe.
In this day and age the ceremonies of others have been co-opted by businessmen, stripped of any cultural context, tweaked to appeal to more modern tastes, and packaged to be peddled to the public.

The rite of passage has been turned into a [b:63268af851]pseudo-ceremony[/b:63268af851], performed among strangers who don't have any connection to each other except for an artificial bond, manufactured by the promoters, intended to [b:63268af851]simulate[/b:63268af851] a sense of belonging!

This is a spiritual "Disneyland" experience, carefully crafted with the consumer in mind!

[b:63268af851]Gag![/b:63268af851]

Yes, we live lives of isolation among strangers and are desperate for meaning, for communion, for [b:63268af851]contact[/b:63268af851], for God's sake! But this is like going to the movies; a cheap thrill, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy for a few days after you return to your real life in the 'burbs.


All of this reminds me of something I experienced last year.

I was taking a course in a scholastic program, all very cutting edge and all that; really interesting stuff.
The director of the program would go on and on about how the course was going to build community, you'd make friends that would last a lifetime, we were changing the world, etc., etc.

Well, before we even finished the class, the school shut down the program, and that was that. The first to go was the program director. Last thing he said to me was how he didn't care what was going to happen to our program, he was out-a-there, had a job offer for a better position in another state.

Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism!

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feldspar
This link is way too much to read, but you can read the intro a get a pretty good sense of the dissertation.

Well, for a dissertation its appalling. Bad references and terrible use of quotes.... anyway..

I've rushed through it and it is very pro-MKP. Easy when it doesn't analise the techniques used, the language used. Doesn't offer a con to any arguement put forward. This is completely biased in a way an academic text should not be.

Interestingly does mention the psychological nature of the weekend several times. As if that was accepted by the author, who, if accepting this should have raised concerns over the disclaimer of no psycholgy!

Rubbish.

-------------------------------------

EDIT - 50% drop out rate between first weekend and i-group! Not the rosy success they like to paint then...

Then I found [b:a4acda2bbe]this[/b:a4acda2bbe] on the same "Boys to Men" website, on a page offering information about "mentoring":

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It is amazing how innocent and tender these young men are. They are eager for this kind of attention and admiration from older men.

I'm not kidding. It's right there on the web.
What's up with that? Just a bad press-writer, or was it intentional? Bet they change the wording sometime in the near future.

Got to agree with you, RU?ing, on the "dissertation". Even after skimming it briefly I could sense the pro MKP slant.

The psychiatric profession often seems to promote, intentionally or otherwise, pschiatric programs run by untrained, unlicensed, unqualified non-professionals. Just look at the way they ship people off to AA, NA, and other 12-step programs without any hesitation. (And for those of you who don't know, AA can be very damaging. Just google it and you'll see.)

(Our court system does the same, which is, in the eyes of many, a violation of the separation of Church and State.)

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Further, I hereby knowingly and voluntarily release MKP, its officers, directors, employees, agents and staff from any liability for any physical or other injury that I may suffer as a result of MKP engagement of such services and/or personnel on my behalf._______(initial)

I'm sure its worded differently in the USA, but this is how they legally get away with it here in the UK. It is when I read this that I really knew I shouldn't do this. I cannot believe that a/ people would sign their rights away, and b/ people convince people its a good thing to do.

Would love to know your wording.

.... on my behalf... grrrrrrrr

This MKP questionnaire (sent in before the weekend) really leaves room for the respondent to show the best of themselves!

I pressume this is so they can keep any 'trouble maker' in check? feldspar - what do you think to that?

[b:c6c62cf088][Note: What follows is a summary within "fair use" guidelines due to a copyright protest from MP][/b:c6c62cf088]


MP used a "Confidential Questionnarire" to gain personal information from those it hopes to recurit.

It tells those completing the form "Do not think too long about the answers. Write your first spontaneous answer."

MP then asks personal questions such about who or what makes the person "angry." What they are "tired of," or what is "fair." What "bugs" them makes them "jealous," "sad," "afraid," "nervous," "frustrated," etc.

This would seemingly enable MP to understand the emotional and/or psychological profile of each potential participant.

Such inside information would make it easier for MP to manipulate training participants more easily as they know each man's personal profile, thoughts, thinking, etc.

MP explains that "Growing comes from living on the edge of our existence."

The questionnaire details the "edge" of each man.

MP also wants to know "the Five Greatest Fears" in each man's life. And their "Five Goals" of "Personal Growth.

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bonnie
Then I found [b:9b88d58eb8]this[/b:9b88d58eb8] on the same "Boys to Men" website, on a page offering information about "mentoring":

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It is amazing how innocent and tender these young men are. They are eager for this kind of attention and admiration from older men.

I'm not kidding. It's right there on the web.
What's up with that? Just a bad press-writer, or was it intentional? Bet they change the wording sometime in the near future.

Shocking - shocking shocking.

I'm not sure this, erm 'service' is available in the UK yet!

Oh my word. What next?!

I was wondering about the checks made on mentors.....

as long as you are a 'brother'?! Vicious circle of trust....

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bonnie
Got to agree with you, RU?ing, on the "dissertation". Even after skimming it briefly I could sense the pro MKP slant.

The psychiatric profession often seems to promote, intentionally or otherwise, pschiatric programs run by untrained, unlicensed, unqualified non-professionals. Just look at the way they ship people off to AA, NA, and other 12-step programs without any hesitation. (And for those of you who don't know, AA can be very damaging. Just google it and you'll see.)

(Our court system does the same, which is, in the eyes of many, a violation of the separation of Church and State.)

This is all really new in the UK.
AA only got big here in the early 90's and I'm not aware of our courts sending people to AA directly, we send them to the quacks - why can't we help them instead ;o)

more recently there has been an explosion in what I now know to be LGATS, but really on in the last 10 years. As for new age - we've always been rather hippy-ish over here - what with Stonehenge!

Hopefully things like this forum and website, and films such as Brainwash (or 'The Naked Weekend') and Donnie Darko will help to dispell the power and myth of MKP, Landmark and other LGAT's.

Should go to bed, but this 'dissertation' is 'interesting'.

There are some stats on attendence for a weekend in American at the bottom of the document if you want to see some demographics - lets just say ok educated ok income WASPs club.

Save you all reading this drivel:

"In fact, one national leader of the MKP has stated that the work done in the MKP is —graduate level twelve step work“ (W. Wich, personal communication, November, 1998)"

Great quote.