Keep it coming you guys! Spill the beans. I think we are the True Warriors dont you! LOL I am sitting here smiling, because I finally see that we are getting some where with the information sharing! Oh and it helps to have a computer hack onboard! Who knew P2P would be sooo helpful! He He

Graduation and I-Group leader outlines - and this is the end of their little protocols.

[Note: What follows is a summary within "fair use" guidelines of the previous post due to a copyright infringment claim made by MP]


MP has a "Graduation Coordinator..to set the stage to share the joy of newfound gifts."

In the MP graduation members "celebrate [their]...evolving community."

Outsiders may attend as "Guests" designated by name tags.

Quite a bit of promotional material, photos, etc is made available and guests are expected to fill out "registration cards (for names, address & phone numbers)."

According to MP part of the stated "Purpose" of Graduation is "invitational marketing."

MP says, "we do graduations to provide an oportunity for other men to see and feel the results of our work. Usually when men feel the shift, especially in men they have known before, they want it also."

So it can be seen as a sales opportunity, complete with registration cards for follow-up/mailings etc.

This is much the "graduation" after the Landmark Forum.

This is carefully scripted and organized, with designated staffers to handle various protions of the event, much like everything else MP does.

Interestingly, in the "Overview & Intention of the New Warrior weekend." The "Presetner" offers "Some history, psychological and social background."

"Psychological"--wait a minute isn's MP just "education"?

Each man has an opportunity to answer the question, "How does it feel to use the wildman?"

MP says the "ceremony is modeled by a leader." And "each new grad is called forward...by given and animal names...this is the new brothers acknowledgment and validation..."

There is a ritual "toast 'To the Women in Our Lives.'"

MP explains that "The many segments of this process provides many opportunities for staffmen to step forward to take leadership."

Now comes what MP calls "Integration," which helps "New Brothers flow smoothly into their group."

MP says this "also serves as deepening to invite men into more of our on going work and community."

New MP members "Get list of staff and the new brothers."

Some are designated as "leaders in training."

There is also "mentoring" done within the "leadership process."
Your Comments Welcome



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2010 02:40AM by rrmoderator.

Standard responses seen on other sites, Wondered when the defense would begin

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many men volunteer their time

Therefore couldn’t be anything but good. I’m sure Landmark, the moonies and scientologist pay all their workers

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A few men on a few occasions have acted out of integrity on a training, but I've never seen any real abuse or control

.

If anything happened it was because of a few rogue members, not a system problem

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including world renowned therapists, phychologists, doctors, clergy, business executives, etc

.

Not guilty by association

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I think most of the stories of weirdness are anomolies or outright fabrications

You’re liars, a variant of “they just weren’t ready for the process”

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MKP does not belong on this list.

No one in these groups thinks they belong on the list

I think a lot of these men like going to the I group so they can feel empowered within the group, even if it is small. Control freaks!
I am waiting to get app. for the yahoo group
you all sparked my Interest!
UGH! The more I read the sicker I get!

Hey RU, did Seed Joe ever give you a definition for (Man)
You have great comebacks! :)

I still would like to work on these questions,
How many MKP men are married, and by that I mean to the same woman as when they joined?

How many are single?

How many are Indian?

How many are Gay? Or as they would say SSA

and I am assuming the average age for joining is 35-50 ?

And Also, how can these guys that are married live with all the depception! Lies and Secrets, and Dont they think if the want to make the world a better place the would start there??? Also I would love to talk to Seed Joes wife via phone, I am sure she would be shocked!!!!

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Ivy
Hey RU, did Seed Joe ever give you a definition for (Man)
You have great comebacks! :)

Thanks Ivy - I've got an infinite amount for these suckers and their twisted ideology!

Seedjoe has yet to reply. I cann't wait though!

And check this - I got my maths wrong earlier - seedjoe has spent in the region of $60,000 on this charade! Suckered! (damn my maths!)

this is my second attemt at posting this:

i was brainwashed in 1993, but not by mkp. i needed a cleansing. it was a choice I made and, at that mkp weekend, i was given the opportunity to “wash” or let go of a lot of resentment, judging of what I don’t understand, and seeing evil lurking around every corner.

i went to the weekend on a scholarship because I was having financial difficulties at the time. The fee structure for the weekends allows anyone who sincerely wants to grow, to attend.

i’m a psychotherapist with a large practice in a large city and have sent scores of clients to these weekends and, although a few have discontinued participation, nearly all have described it as the most helpful thing they had done for themselves in their adult lives. NOT ONE HAS COMPLAINED OF ANYTHING SIMILAR TO THE REPORTS (FABRICATIONS) IN THE PREVIOUS POSTINGS.

any protocol that describes an experiential process cannot be understood intellectually. In fact, I don’t expect anyone who has not experienced this process to be anything but scared and judging of it. for example, to read the literature related to the vast psychotherapeutic world of psychodrama and the intense expression of feelings and sometimes violent role play (carefully controlled by experienced practitioners) is to only get a scary tip of the iceberg.

whether it is the mkp work or psychotherapy or any emotional growth experience, it allows change in the individual and therefore challenges the people around them. Whether it’s men who’s wives go through woman within (an organization for women that does equally good work) or women who’s husbands go to mkp, there is a choice point to wake up to emotional growth or stay asleep. Most folks resist change and try to find someone to blame rather than look at themselves.

My wife chose to do the woman within weekend 3 years ago and our relationship is deeper and we are both more at peace with ourselves. yes, it could have gone either way.

the mkp work was such a loving and quality experience for me that I chose to staff many of the weekends and paid a small fee to be there as staff. the conclusion of a previous posting that the $600 cost is ongoing is incorrect. it's a one time fee and it's a bargain because goes to creating the best men’s transformational weekend anywhere (and i’ve been doing personal growth work for 20 years). after extensive training, i have recently become one of the few paid staff members (it works out to about $7/hr). no one is prospering financially from this work. It’s a volunteer organization with a few trusted servents who are paid small stipends.

Also, the sexual allegations are absolute fabrications. THAT SORT OF THING DOES NOT, COULD NOT, AND DID NOT HAPPEN AT ONE OF THESE WEEKENDS. IT IS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF THE SPIRIT OF THE WORK. IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!

i am also a vocal activist in my community for freedom of expression. i understand the need for vigilance regarding organizations and individuals that are out of control with ego and coercion. MKP IS NOT ONE OF THESE GROUPS AND IS BEING UNFAIRLY MISREPRESENTED HERE BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED IT. All of the training of facilitators is based in an emphasis on keeping ego out of the process, letting the men do their own work, and keeping even the challenging parts based in love and caring.

there are a lot of people who have gained so much from this work. and there is a world full of unconsciousness looking for a war to fight. I’m respectfully asking for some restraint here and to see the possibility that there is an organization that is doing their best to change that situation.

You tell me you do not judge, yet you have judge me to be a liar. I do not know you, but I do know my husband, and he did not lie. You were not there, how could you possibly know what went on.

If you are a therapist, you should understand how a process like this could become twisted in these circumstances.. Quite frankly, some of my friends are therapists, and they are the most screwed up people I know.

This is very similar to the Catholic church denying for years, and then covering up for years, pedophile priests in the midst. Priests who were trusted, and then destroyed young children. I guess you are saying it could go on in a church atmosphere, but not at MKP. You cannot be that naive.

This entire organization is a cult. Jim Jones convinced over 900 people to commit suicide, all the while convincing them he was doing the right thing for them. I am not saying MKP would have men commit suicide, but that is the power of a man or group who thinks they are perfect, and their way is the only way.

The average man in MKP 35-50, upper middle income and higher. These are not wild and crazy 21 year olds. If these men left MKP, and have stated why they left, and what happened to them, who are you to call them liars. And by the way, in your rant, where were YOUR "I" statments.

Shut UP!!!!! Can you find out how much a I will send this via email
of the Windsor area spent???? This was my husbands sponser, he even does some extra fire walking seminars to make the guys feel they can do anything if they can walk threw fire! UMMMM I watched the discovery channel and seen how this hoax is pulled off!

I love the way you get these guys rattled, and have you seen the views? Oh, we have just begun!!

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RU?ing

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Ivy
Hey RU, did Seed Joe ever give you a definition for (Man)
You have great comebacks! :)

Thanks Ivy - I've got an infinite amount for these suckers and their twisted ideology!

Seedjoe has yet to reply. I cann't wait though!

And check this - I got my maths wrong earlier - seedjoe has spent in the region of $60,000 on this charade! Suckered! (damn my maths!)

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BearSong
this is my second attemt at posting this:

i was brainwashed in 1993, but not by mkp. i needed a cleansing. it was a choice I made and, at that mkp weekend, i was given the opportunity to “wash” or let go of a lot of resentment, judging of what I don’t understand, and seeing evil lurking around every corner.

i went to the weekend on a scholarship because I was having financial difficulties at the time. The fee structure for the weekends allows anyone who sincerely wants to grow, to attend.

i’m a psychotherapist with a large practice in a large city and have sent scores of clients to these weekends and, although a few have discontinued participation, nearly all have described it as the most helpful thing they had done for themselves in their adult lives. NOT ONE HAS COMPLAINED OF ANYTHING SIMILAR TO THE REPORTS (FABRICATIONS) IN THE PREVIOUS POSTINGS.

any protocol that describes an experiential process cannot be understood intellectually. In fact, I don’t expect anyone who has not experienced this process to be anything but scared and judging of it. for example, to read the literature related to the vast psychotherapeutic world of psychodrama and the intense expression of feelings and sometimes violent role play (carefully controlled by experienced practitioners) is to only get a scary tip of the iceberg.

whether it is the mkp work or psychotherapy or any emotional growth experience, it allows change in the individual and therefore challenges the people around them. Whether it’s men who’s wives go through woman within (an organization for women that does equally good work) or women who’s husbands go to mkp, there is a choice point to wake up to emotional growth or stay asleep. Most folks resist change and try to find someone to blame rather than look at themselves.

My wife chose to do the woman within weekend 3 years ago and our relationship is deeper and we are both more at peace with ourselves. yes, it could have gone either way.

the mkp work was such a loving and quality experience for me that I chose to staff many of the weekends and paid a small fee to be there as staff. the conclusion of a previous posting that the $600 cost is ongoing is incorrect. it's a one time fee and it's a bargain because goes to creating the best men’s transformational weekend anywhere (and i’ve been doing personal growth work for 20 years). after extensive training, i have recently become one of the few paid staff members (it works out to about $7/hr). no one is prospering financially from this work. It’s a volunteer organization with a few trusted servents who are paid small stipends.

Also, the sexual allegations are absolute fabrications. THAT SORT OF THING DOES NOT, COULD NOT, AND DID NOT HAPPEN AT ONE OF THESE WEEKENDS. IT IS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF THE SPIRIT OF THE WORK. IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!

i am also a vocal activist in my community for freedom of expression. i understand the need for vigilance regarding organizations and individuals that are out of control with ego and coercion. MKP IS NOT ONE OF THESE GROUPS AND IS BEING UNFAIRLY MISREPRESENTED HERE BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED IT. All of the training of facilitators is based in an emphasis on keeping ego out of the process, letting the men do their own work, and keeping even the challenging parts based in love and caring.

there are a lot of people who have gained so much from this work. and there is a world full of unconsciousness looking for a war to fight. I’m respectfully asking for some restraint here and to see the possibility that there is an organization that is doing their best to change that situation.

I guess you are not high enough rank to get the protocal work sheets They tell the MKP leaders step by step the tings to say and it's not pretty!

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BearSong
this is my second attemt at posting this:

Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back - well done.

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BearSong
i was brainwashed in 1993, but not by mkp. i needed a cleansing. it was a choice I made and, at that mkp weekend, i was given the opportunity to “wash” or let go of a lot of resentment, judging of what I don’t understand, and seeing evil lurking around every corner.

So who brainwashed you then?! And please describe the techniques offered to help 'cleanse' you of this brainwashing. That could be dangerous to your mental wellbeing - I hope it worked ok.

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BearSong
i went to the weekend on a scholarship because I was having financial difficulties at the time. The fee structure for the weekends allows anyone who sincerely wants to grow, to attend.

A psychotherapist in financial difficulties?! No hope for us unproffestionals then! And so what? I got a half scholarship - of course they are hungry for sick men to attend!

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BearSong
i’m a psychotherapist with a large practice in a large city and have sent scores of clients to these weekends and, although a few have discontinued participation, nearly all have described it as the most helpful thing they had done for themselves in their adult lives. NOT ONE HAS COMPLAINED OF ANYTHING SIMILAR TO THE REPORTS (FABRICATIONS) IN THE PREVIOUS POSTINGS.

I've heard of enough wacky quacks with large practices - what exactly are you trying to prove with that statement? What do you think of the ethics of a trained psychotherapist sending mentally disturbed people, who are seeking PROFESSIONAL help to a bunch of untrained people doing illegal jungian and gestalt experiments? Ermmmmm do you tell these people what they are signing up to? Dodgy dodgy.

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BearSong
any protocol that describes an experiential process cannot be understood intellectually. In fact, I don’t expect anyone who has not experienced this process to be anything but scared and judging of it. for example, to read the literature related to the vast psychotherapeutic world of psychodrama and the intense expression of feelings and sometimes violent role play (carefully controlled by experienced practitioners) is to only get a scary tip of the iceberg.

That is utter rubbish. Are you sure you are educated? So tell me, after this experiential, or psychological, or experiMENTAL, protocol - how do the men process/understand what has been done to them? How can we process information except through the intellect?! Circular arguemnents don't wash here friend. And by your statement you are accepting that this is psychotherapy. Dude - thats illegal.

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BearSong
whether it is the mkp work or psychotherapy or any emotional growth experience, it allows change in the individual and therefore challenges the people around them. Whether it’s men who’s wives go through woman within (an organization for women that does equally good work) or women who’s husbands go to mkp, there is a choice point to wake up to emotional growth or stay asleep. Most folks resist change and try to find someone to blame rather than look at themselves.

Again, you are accepting that this is an psychological practice! So I'm asleep am I? So let me get your logic... All those who don't do this weekend are asleep. Hmmmmm. That IS cultish!

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BearSong
My wife chose to do the woman within weekend 3 years ago and our relationship is deeper and we are both more at peace with ourselves. yes, it could have gone either way.

Well, I can't comment really on your wifes 'choice' - I have read all MKP literature regarding how MKP is promoting 'freedom' - so did the Nazis. So how free are you, and how free is your wife? Infact - define freedom of choice.

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BearSong
the mkp work was such a loving and quality experience for me that I chose to staff many of the weekends and paid a small fee to be there as staff. the conclusion of a previous posting that the $600 cost is ongoing is incorrect. it's a one time fee and it's a bargain because goes to creating the best men’s transformational weekend anywhere (and i’ve been doing personal growth work for 20 years). after extensive training, i have recently become one of the few paid staff members (it works out to about $7/hr). no one is prospering financially from this work. It’s a volunteer organization with a few trusted servents who are paid small stipends.

Great - you 'got it' - well lots don't. As I have said before - to 'get it' means you are accepting that you cannot cope in the real world - whats alarming here is that you are meant to be a professional psychotherapist - who is clearly broken himself!

The other pro-MKP post writer never said he had be a 'trainer' on these weekends - I know that many people need to do it more than once - this group replaces whatever addiction they had I guess.

And you fail to remind people the cost of these Training courses!

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BearSong
Also, the sexual allegations are absolute fabrications. THAT SORT OF THING DOES NOT, COULD NOT, AND DID NOT HAPPEN AT ONE OF THESE WEEKENDS. IT IS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF THE SPIRIT OF THE WORK. IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!

How on earth can you say that?! I don't think bad things happen every weekend this incorporated business puts on, nor in every Igroup - but to blanket deny draws parallels to denying the holacaust. You say it COULD NOT happen - Mate - check your reality.

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BearSong
i am also a vocal activist in my community for freedom of expression.

Gee, snap. I also respect the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights too! Have you heard of the UN?!

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BearSong
i understand the need for vigilance regarding organizations and individuals that are out of control with ego and coercion.

Thanks, we needed your approval! MKP protocols are certainly a great example of coercion tactics. You can read i take it? So you don't think that food, sleep and identity deprivation is a type of coercion? What school of psychotherapy do you belong to? SS?

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BearSong
MKP IS NOT ONE OF THESE GROUPS AND IS BEING UNFAIRLY MISREPRESENTED HERE BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED IT.

MKP is clearly one of these groups. It is not being misrepresented. We have all, in one way or another, experienced the RESULTS of this weekend. Stay home, drop some acid - thats where all this est other LGAT's experiments come from! Wayyyyyy cheaper, just as dangerous. Infact - why not take acid on these weekends - I know loads of people who have taken it - only a few didn't 'get it'.

And so why don't you fairly represent this weekend? Tell us in your own (trained) words, what the purpose of, say, the 'New Warrior Context'? And please - do you really belive that

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'Reality starts with what we know. In our reality what we know is physical matter. In the reality of our physical world, physical matter exists. Physics is the study of physical matter.

Recently, physicists have discovered scientifically what some ancient philosophical systems and religions have claimed for millennia. Namely that all matter is the same stuff! We now know scientifically that all matter is light energy and that the differences in the matter we experience are the result of light energy vibrating at different frequencies: Dense matter like rocks, steel or earth = Slow vibrations; Faster vibrations = air, water and flesh.
Physics is the study of physical matter. Metaphysics is the study of all the matter of the universe: the big picture. Imagine all that matter and all of it the same stuff. I'm that same stuff.

Metaphysics is NOT the study of all matter of the universe!!!! Didn't the author understand that?! Don't grown men know that (unless they have been deprived of sleep, food and identity, hence reducing their critical awareness - ohhhh, verging on coercion there).

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BearSong
All of the training of facilitators is based in an emphasis on keeping ego out of the process, letting the men do their own work, and keeping even the challenging parts based in love and caring.

So these facilitators are trained psychologists? How else could they recognise ego? And please, your use of the words 'love' and 'caring'..... an abuser can 'love' and 'care' for the person they are abusing. Do you think the Nazi's thought they were wrong?

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BearSong
there are a lot of people who have gained so much from this work.

There are a lot of people who have gained so much from mugging, from herion, from murder, from rape...... hmmmm - legalise them all - its all alright!

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BearSong
and there is a world full of unconsciousness looking for a war to fight.

In your manly world, maybe - there are no war in my world - only love. Sorry.

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BearSong
I’m respectfully asking for some restraint here

Freedom of speach matey - British style, not sure what restraint you want - on the truth?!

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BearSong
and to see the possibility that there is an organization that is doing their best to change that situation.

Change what situation into what?! Hmmmm, are we seeing appearence of some kind of social militia? 'If you don't fit in to our (undefined) definition of man and woman, you are asleep and not fully functioning'.

Bearsong only goes to further show how trapped these people are in their little reality-bubble. They cannot see out of the box, they are like a bug in a rug, and the rug is the whole world. These people have had to limit their world in order to process it. They need to stay with people with similar (implanted) ideological world views. Sad and mad really.

The ideology that this group preaches is dodgy - I'm doing some discourse analysis on their 'New Warrior Context', will post soon.

I do hope we get some more MKP people - this is fun, but it is kind of like poking a caged animal, so kind of cruel I guess. These poor confused, sick, and hurt men (and women).