I have attended Radiant Life since March of this year. I really like the worship, and I have never found anything in the teaching to be unbiblical (and I know my Bible pretty well). However, I am the type who comes on Sunday morning, never speaks to anyone, and leaves as soon as service is over. I am not involved in any groups. I had heard the rumors about RLC, and even called and spoke to a pastor (Kimball, I think) about the "discipleship" program, which he adamantly denied existed. I found this thread recently and read through most of the posts, and believe that there's no way all of you are mislead. If this many people have doubts, plus the existence of the lawsuit I found online, there must be a problem. My question is this: what exactly does Pastor Tony preach that is unbiblical? I have heard the phrase "Tony worship" but was wondering if anyone could give me examples. Also, what is the "hired hand?" And what happened to Brandon Miller? I believed him to be a decent guy and all the sudden he was gone. What kind of cult behavior goes on behind the scenes there? I guess I was totally fooled because I never saw any of this. I thought Tony was a good preacher. Another question for you is this: if you've all left RLC, where do you go now? I don't think I will go back after what I've learned, even though I personally was not burned or brainwashed or anything like that. I am now without a church. Any insight anyone can give me would be appreciated.

Question du jour:

What can we say about the Tree if all the branches (even the good branches) drop off?

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tammy1019
I have attended Radiant Life since March of this year. I really like the worship, and I have never found anything in the teaching to be unbiblical (and I know my Bible pretty well). However, I am the type who comes on Sunday morning, never speaks to anyone, and leaves as soon as service is over. I am not involved in any groups. I had heard the rumors about RLC, and even called and spoke to a pastor (Kimball, I think) about the "discipleship" program, which he adamantly denied existed. I found this thread recently and read through most of the posts, and believe that there's no way all of you are mislead. If this many people have doubts, plus the existence of the lawsuit I found online, there must be a problem. My question is this: what exactly does Pastor Tony preach that is unbiblical? I have heard the phrase "Tony worship" but was wondering if anyone could give me examples. Also, what is the "hired hand?" And what happened to Brandon Miller? I believed him to be a decent guy and all the sudden he was gone. What kind of cult behavior goes on behind the scenes there? I guess I was totally fooled because I never saw any of this. I thought Tony was a good preacher. Another question for you is this: if you've all left RLC, where do you go now? I don't think I will go back after what I've learned, even though I personally was not burned or brainwashed or anything like that. I am now without a church. Any insight anyone can give me would be appreciated.

Dear Tammy
First of all welcome

I don’t have much time and I believe Worship_Big, Déjà Vu, Ring Barer, WhatAJoke, Escapee07, TimeForChange, HMajewski, GodisFaithful, Won't Be Dogmatized and WantingTruth can all articulate much better than I. Oh if I did not list you I was running out of time
Tammy
your asking great questions and I’m sorry Tom Kimball is not able to just come out and be honest with you.
You deserve the truth and so does every one associated with RLc & Tony.
My best suggestion is to go sit down with Brandon and his wife they are open to share there experiences and testimonies. I would also seek out Matt Wanner he is a good man.

Regarding the Discipleship program what it all boiled down to is it was mirroring the Shepparding Movement. ‘In a nut shell it was a program designed to usurp the roll of the Holy Spirit’ Tony would bring the Elders, Pastors and Staffers a teaching with his spin on it then each of these people would then take the same teaching to the ones they discipled. Mix all this in with Tony’s views and teachings of military authoritarian control (see the Mastor & Commander”.
Look at my recent recount of how Greg Huth took Exodus 21:1-6 all I can say is Greg had me convinced for a while. [forum.culteducation.com]

There are many things wrong with Tony’s theology. One he embraces the Old Testament law and teaches the believer that it is your constant efforts of trying to please God are not good enough that you need to sacrifice more.
Tony does not embrace salvation is a gift, that some how you have to earn it daily. He reinforces this theme at the GAP that some how God is not ever pleased with you.
The bottom line of Tony’s theology is to control and manipulate people.

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tammy1019
I have attended Radiant Life since March of this year. I really like the worship, and I have never found anything in the teaching to be unbiblical (and I know my Bible pretty well). However, I am the type who comes on Sunday morning, never speaks to anyone, and leaves as soon as service is over. I am not involved in any groups. I had heard the rumors about RLC, and even called and spoke to a pastor (Kimball, I think) about the "discipleship" program, which he adamantly denied existed. I found this thread recently and read through most of the posts, and believe that there's no way all of you are mislead. If this many people have doubts, plus the existence of the lawsuit I found online, there must be a problem. My question is this: what exactly does Pastor Tony preach that is unbiblical? I have heard the phrase "Tony worship" but was wondering if anyone could give me examples. Also, what is the "hired hand?" And what happened to Brandon Miller? I believed him to be a decent guy and all the sudden he was gone. What kind of cult behavior goes on behind the scenes there? I guess I was totally fooled because I never saw any of this. I thought Tony was a good preacher. Another question for you is this: if you've all left RLC, where do you go now? I don't think I will go back after what I've learned, even though I personally was not burned or brainwashed or anything like that. I am now without a church. Any insight anyone can give me would be appreciated.

Tammy...............I would say if you carefully read through all the posts on here (it will take some time but starting probably around page 40) you will have answers to your questions. We have dealt with the issues on here in past postings. Also, you sound exactly like my wife. She just came on sundays, minded, her own business and was okay until red flags started popping up. You can go to any church and just pop in the pew on sunday and be ok. Tony indocrinates you into an abusive and manipulative system. We were all were you were at one point even thinking pastor tony was great. The unbiblical part...........please read the forum, it is clearly outlined. We have also gave you examples of Tony worship. Much of it was a result of his constant preaching of honoring your teacher. I have heard people say that they just want to sit at Tonys feet. My father has witnessed him all over elk grove with different young women each time. If you are involved in SOMA you would see tony worship at its ultimate. I am not going to recreate the wheel here and encourage you to carefully read everything from about page 40. Welcome.

also Tammy, seems like you are a newbie to RLC. We all experienced the initial glee at the church appearing to be full of life. Be careful that is a very external perspective. Many of us spent an significant time at the church. Enough time to experience not only the people but the theology and the destructiveness of the teachings. Tony always has an audience for his teachings and it may not always be you. It may be the SOMA students or the core of the church. Yes he can sound mainstream on Sundays but even those if you are in the church are for a bigger purpose than just sharing the gospel. Anyone can stand up in front of people, be a good speaker, and totally captivate that persons attention. The problem lies when this captivation blocks the receiver from discerning bad teaching from good teaching and what the motivation of the teaching is. Also, if you read the posts Tony has been very untruthful and deceptive. There are financial issues. There is 100K that is still unaccounted for that was appropriated to the Phillipines. Anywaym you have to make your own choices. We are just here to provide the information to prevent peoples lifes from being destroyed. Spiritual Parenting is one of the big teachings that have destroyed families lives. If anyone there tells you it does not exist or never existed then run fast because it was a major teaching by Tony. Many children denounced their family to take on other spiritual parents who in many instances were manipulating the kids themselves. Tony had and elders daughter living with him. Dont you want ask why couldnt an elder take care of his own kid. Paul Childs was messed up himself and doling out spiritual advice to young kids. he currently had a kid (was a kid when all of this started but now adult) still living with him and is manipulating that kid. Most of the people on White Peacock who are still in the church practice this. And as for Tom Kimball and his response. Tom is a very nice man. There is a possibility that since all of this happened on here and the mass exodus of people that the discipleship program in its formal nature does not exist. I believe it is still done informally. But he didnt give you the whole story. It existed on a large scale and was taught at RLC. I participated in it. I actually can not speak as to whether it exists in its old form or not. It could be something now that is just under cover or continuing for those already in it. If it died then it is just like everything else at RLC. A fad that finally passed. Just like casting out demons which went on for a few months. Just know that Discipleship reigned at Radiant Life and in alot of dischipleship relationships, at least the further up the chain you went, there was much to total control of peoples lifes that was manipulated by the disciplers as what must be done to honor the discipler and get closer to god. Also know that there is a mainstream core that attends on Sundays. These are the busses that come in, some people from the hotels, and many different minorities. These people in no way would ever have influence in the church. they are the fluff. My wife and I used to comment all the time how different the church looked on Sundays than the rest of the week. On Sundays it seemed like a multicultural, mainstream church and during the week it looked like a primarily caucasion cult that worshiped Tony, all while Tony envouraged this.

sorry for all of the typos, bad grammar, and spelling errors in the last two posts of mine. I whipped it out in a hurry and just now went back to read it. I think you will put it together but there are typos. sorry guys, in a hurry.

Here is an excerpt from this link [www.geocities.com] . I thought this was interesting. Any other thoughts on this?


Why not just forgive them and forget about it?
One frequently asked question is, “Why not just forgive Andrew Evans and Brian Houston and the others and forget about it?”

The question is posed by two groups of people: Ordinary Christians who see no value in continuing to tell an unpopular truth, and experienced Spiritual Abusers who have used this technique to control gullible Christians for years.

The question is worth answering publicly. There are four aspects that apply in this case.



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1. Biblical forgiveness comes with a pre-condition.

Pentecostals have long quoted Acts 2:38 without listening to the words: And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).

There is no biblical forgiveness without repentance, no matter what the soft-hearted religious types say. Jesus said, Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish (Luke 13:3).

I have a responsibility before God to hold these men accountable for their sin and to insist that they repent publicly. Without such repentance, Andrew Evans, Brian Houston and the others face a lost eternity. (Their positions of public leadership make it unlikely that God will permit the kind of secret, death-bed repentance they hope to engineer.)



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2. Disputes between brothers can be solved, subject to the same pre-condition.

Jesus laid down a crystal-clear rule governing the resolution of disputes between brothers:
Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and IF HE REPENTS, forgive him (Luke 17:3).

No repentance, no forgiveness — there is no confusion in Scripture.



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3. Abuse of the responsibilities of spiritual leadership, without genuine repentance, abrogates forgiveness.

After King Saul had refused to obey God's command (1 Samuel 15:9), built a monument for himself (1 Samuel 15: 12), lied about his rebellious behaviour (1 Samuel 15:13) and blamed his failures on the people (1 Samuel 15:21), he demanded that the prophet Samuel forgive him, “and return with me, that I may worship the Lord” (1 Samuel 15:25).

Samuel refused to be deceived by Saul’s religious posturing and said, “I will not return with you; for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you” (1 Samuel 15:26).

So much for the shallow demand that Christians forgive Spiritual Abusers without evidence of genuine repentance on their part.



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4. Why not just forget about it?

I have an abiding responsibility to warn other potential victims about the true character of Andrew Evans, Brian Houston and the others.

Obviously there is a limit to how much I can do in this regard, but the least I can do is accept the challenge of one of Andrew Evans’ many lawyers — Grant Mitchell — to publish the facts on the Internet.

Someone recently asked "what did Jesus say about honor". So I did a little word search on honor in the Gospels. There seems to only be 3 situations in which the word honor is used: 1) Honor God 2) Honor your father and mother 3) rebuke to those who seek honor for themselves .

This was obviously not an extensive study but seems to be a great place to start. You will also notice in the gospels that love is the currency of heaven not honor.

Quote from Tony C. " honor is the currency of heaven" is in fact diametrically opposed to what Jesus taught. Jesus rebuked those who sought the place of honor at the banquet for themselves.

Thank you Guess Who, for your insights on honor.

I am interested in hearing from those who were directly affected by the incorrect emphasis Tony placed on honor. Obviously the concept of honor as it is taught throughout the whole of the bible is very different from the concept of honor taught by Tony and others who follow Tony's lead.

If you were impacted in some way by the "honor" teachings of Tony at RLC please share your story.

Quote
tammy1019
I have attended Radiant Life since March of this year. I really like the worship, and I have never found anything in the teaching to be unbiblical (and I know my Bible pretty well). However, I am the type who comes on Sunday morning, never speaks to anyone, and leaves as soon as service is over. I am not involved in any groups. I had heard the rumors about RLC, and even called and spoke to a pastor (Kimball, I think) about the "discipleship" program, which he adamantly denied existed. I found this thread recently and read through most of the posts, and believe that there's no way all of you are mislead. If this many people have doubts, plus the existence of the lawsuit I found online, there must be a problem. My question is this: what exactly does Pastor Tony preach that is unbiblical? I have heard the phrase "Tony worship" but was wondering if anyone could give me examples. Also, what is the "hired hand?" And what happened to Brandon Miller? I believed him to be a decent guy and all the sudden he was gone. What kind of cult behavior goes on behind the scenes there? I guess I was totally fooled because I never saw any of this. I thought Tony was a good preacher. Another question for you is this: if you've all left RLC, where do you go now? I don't think I will go back after what I've learned, even though I personally was not burned or brainwashed or anything like that. I am now without a church. Any insight anyone can give me would be appreciated.

Welcome Tammy1019,

You had asked specific questions about false teaching. There are several to name. Especially if you are involved in the 'extended' program which includes SOMA, the Gap and Friday Night Worship. Prior to my leaving a year and a half ago, I found that the teaching on Sunday was, for the most part, benign. However, I noticed this starting to change. For example one Sunday Tony taught that if you do not forgive someone their sins against you than God will heap back all of your sins on you. Well I do not see where this is Biblical supported. (He casts them into the sea of forgetfullness.)

According to the General Assembly meeting that was held on October 19, 2008, the teaching that the leadership was apologizing for is:

1. Discipleship - This started with good intent. However, people started to look at their discipler for the answers. The practices were to provide blessings to those who teach you and to emulate their actions. People became so obsessed that they couldn't even go to the bathroom without checking with their discipler first. (Okay, a bit of exageration but you get the point)
2. Spiritual Parenting - This was taken out of context. The scriptures that were used to support this was Paul calling Timothy his spiritual son. So, children would go their parents and say that they could no longer receive from them but would have to find someone else to pour into them because their parents were but 'filthy rags'. (Do I hear honor your father and mother in this teaching? Nope!)
3. Casting out demons - Another blame shifting technique. In other words you have demons that have caused you to do certain things so you need to make an appointment and have the elders pray over you. Your typical, "The Devil made me do it" scenario.

To my knowledge, Tony to this day has not apologized for starting this teaching. He has, however, apologized for allowing it to get out of hand. None of the 'apologies' can be found on line so all of the people he has offended, hurt, mislead, misguided, etc. have yet to receive any apology.

The above is just a recap of what they are apologizing for. The one thing I hope that people would consider is that the structure that allowed this teaching to happen still exists. The elder board has the same members (though less of them) and Tony is at the helm directing them. Nothing has changed to prevent false teaching, aberrant or abhorrant teaching from happening again. That, to me is why this church is dangerous.

Regarding church attendance, there are many great churches in our community. If you would like additional information about how to find a healthy church, PM me and I would be happy to share what I know.