Tammy,

I am not sure what you are trolling for? There are specific instances recorded here just in between people dealing with their feelings and emotions, and that's ok.

If you want specific examples and testimonies so that you can "explain to your family" if that's truly what you're after, maybe you should call some of the list below that have left rlc for one reason or another and let them explain to you face to face or phone to phone, whichever the case may be... Also, if you do a little rersearch or due diligence on cults and cult behavior or destructive churches you can compare how the busines of rlc is set up at vs. other dangerous or harmful fellowships. Many people on this forum speak in, as you say, 'general terms' because we know what happens when speaking out against the hired hand, his teachings and his band of merry men, and we still may have family/friends who have not left. We don't want to strain relationships past where they are, or possibly loose them completely because people who do not agree with Tony or who have left are bashed in both public and private settings.

The list of family's at last count that have left rlc/egcc:

Adlesperger, John
Adlesperger, Leslie
Agius, Dave & family
Ampey, Greg & family
Anderson, Marc & family
Ari - SOMA
Arnaz, Tom & Laura
Barbour, Amber
Barrett, Brenda & family
Barrientos, Kristen & family
Beasley, Dennis & Shari
Beckner, Tammy
Bender, Dennis & Gloria
Bennett, Ken & family
Bergen, Ashley
Bianchini, Mario & Karen
Bianchini, Nichole
Blanton, Jim & Marilyn
Boline, Aaron & family
Bollinger, Ken & Janet
Borsic, Tom & family
Box, Jerry & family
Brantley, Adam & family
Breault, Ed & family
Brewster, Mel & family
Brown, Greg & Vicky
Bryany, Levert
Burke, Joel & family
Burke, Sean & family
Burke, Steve & family
Butterworth, Shana
Byrd, Petri & family
Cantrell family
Carmazzi, Joanne & girls
Carr, Dave & family
Casarez, Cecilia
Chapman, Shirley
Christensen
Clay, Aaron & family
Coleman, Jon & family
Corpe, Michael & family
Cregar, Cory & family
Croco, Russ & Marie
Cruz, JJ & family
Daggs, Lisa & family
Daniels, Dominic & Tracey & family
Davis, Dan & family
Davis, Jim & family
Dele-Ogbeide, Uki
Denberger
Deschaves, Mike & family
Diaz, Kiki & family
Doherty, Brian & family
Dove, Tom & family
Duffy, Ken & family
Dunham, Julie
Elliott, Dan & family
Enstall, Karrie
Figueroa, Ray & family
Flores, Antonio & family
Flores, Moses & Rachel
Flowers, Daniel & Deborah
Fountain, Dave & family
Fredericks, Chuck & family
Freitas, Jay & Annie
Funtanilla, Tony & Debbie
Gallegos, Dave
Garcia ??
Gardner, Dave & family
Garibaldi, David & Joy
Geisinger, Steve & Linda
Gillerstrom, Robert & family
Gillespie, Ed
Gillespie, Jason
Goslin, Ken & Sue
Graham, John & family
Greer, Adam & family
Greer, Jeff & family
Griffith, Sarah & family
Grosjean, Josh
Grossjan, Lisa
Gullion, Jacob & family
Gunn, Mike & family
Halbach, Valerie
Hayes, Gordon & family
Heart, Cory & Ryan
Hemsworth, Michael & family
Henderson, Bob &
Holmes, Richard
Hoover, Mike & Monica
Howard, Dave & family
Hughes, Chris & Bethany
Hulsing, Ben & family
Isaac, Zack
Jackson, Meagan
Jackson, Tyler
Jacobs, Roland & family
Jinkerson, Bill & family
Joe, Debbie & family
Johnson family
Jones, Derek & family
Jones, Greg & Heather
Jones, Melna & family
Jones, Tarik
Kavouras, Anthony & family
Keeshan, Ethan & family
Kidwell, Dennis & family
Kitay, Al & family
Krell, Wendell & family
Kwan, Steve & Marjo
LaMar
[L], Joe & family
[L], Mike
Lasiter, Jeff & family
Law, Ed & family
Lazalier, Ryan & family
Lekki, Jim & family
Linares, Jennifer & daughter
Love, Aaron & Gina
Love, Larry & family
Mack, Debra
Magdangal, Wally & family (Pastor)
Majewski, Mike & family
Mancillas, Jesse & Dale
Mancillas, Jesse Jr.
Mancillas, Samuel
Marks, Darold & family
Mars, Ashley
Mathieson, Scott & family
McCullough, Scott & family
McKurtis, Seth & family
Melnick, Paul & Pam
Michalek, Matt & family
Michelle - SOMA
Mikulin, Tim & family
Millar, Joshua & family
Millar, Kathy
Miller, Brandon & family
Miller, Jim & Linda
Moore, Mike & Annie
Morgan, Roger & Ruth
Morrissey, Joe & Lawna
Ohiri, Paul & Ngozi
Ott, Dennis & Leila
Ott, Jacob & Jenica
Otto, Don & family
Palmer, Ryan & family
Parr, Zach & family
Petrali, Tony & family
Peyton, Heather
Plant, Daniel & family
Plummer, Juston & family
Quam, Todd & Monica
Records, Paul & Sandy
Reed & family
Reese, Neva
Reta, Bridget & kids
Reta, Kevin
Reynolds, Mark & Melissa
Rich & Rene
Richards, Jenni
Richards, Mike & family
Richards, Steve & Beverly
Ringer, Emily
Ringor, Justin & family
Ritzema, Rohn & Jane
Romandia, Ed & family
Ruiz, Michael & family
Russell, Harry & family
Russo, Lezlie & family
Rutledge, Darrin & family
Salo, Patrick & Marjie
Schenkenberger, John & Evelyn
Schlaegle, Aaron & Holly
Silva, Justin & family
Silva, Shawn & family
Simmons, Esley
Simon, Bill & family
Simon, Scott
Singh, Shish & Jagir
Sirard
Sneed family
Stark, Phillip & family
Stevens, Stephanie & family
Stewart, Ken & family
Stillwell, Greg & family
Stone, Rod & Sharon
Strom, Alissa & Rob
Sugimoto, Dan & Liz
Svoboda, Sandi
Swann, Hope
Taylor, Caitlin
Tewes, Vernon & family
Tharp, Chuck & Family
Thorpe, Jason & Erin
Tiffany
Tiller, Shane & family
Tymon, Ted & family
Vierra, Jim & family
Vigario, Mark & family
Walter, Phil & family
Walters, Terry & family
Walton, Bruce & family
Wanner, Matt & family
Warehiem, Corrina & family
Washington, Ella & family
Washington, Sandra
Watson, Rick & family
Weaver, Ben
Webb family
Weisker, Pattie
Whitcomb, Randy & family
White, Mike & family
Whorton, Jenny
Wilson, Charlie & family
Wilson, Tom & family
Wong, Santo & family
Yeargen, Russ & family
Yee, Melvin & Deanna
Yun, Chris & family
Zamora, Arnie & family

Quote
tammy1019
I appreciate everyone who has replied to my post about specific teachings. I want to clarify: I HAVE read this forum, and I can tell you that a lot of what is on here is in very general terms, and a lot of it is just plain Tony bashing. I understand the feelings behind that, but it was not helpful to me. I wanted specific examples, and some of you have been gracious to give them to me. I am not trying to rob anyone of testimonies, my goodness. I simply wanted more specifics to wrap my mind around, especially since I have to explain to my family why I am choosing to leave the church. Thank you all for the helpful information.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 03:03AM by rrmoderator.

Quote
tammy1019
I appreciate everyone who has replied to my post about specific teachings. I want to clarify: I HAVE read this forum, and I can tell you that a lot of what is on here is in very general terms, and a lot of it is just plain Tony bashing. I understand the feelings behind that, but it was not helpful to me. I wanted specific examples, and some of you have been gracious to give them to me. I am not trying to rob anyone of testimonies, my goodness. I simply wanted more specifics to wrap my mind around, especially since I have to explain to my family why I am choosing to leave the church. Thank you all for the helpful information.

Tammy: I do not believe I have replied to any of your posts. However you are right there is a lot that is general here and including myself some have made some generalized statements that could be called simple Tony bashing and I would agree that is not of benefit to you. However most if not all who have made just general angry statements are in a healing process many were hurt much more significantly then me and in some cases families were nearly destroyed. However there are many are many specific examples of teachings and actual proven things that have been done by Tony and other members of leadership at RLC that are listed in this forum.

I have engaged in many internet forums and it is a common expectation that people use the search function or read everything on a forum, before asking and therefore expecting people to answer questions that have already been answered many times before. I have personally been flamed more than once on internet for asking asking questions before either using search or reading the information already contained in the thread I am making my inquiry in. In my opinion if no one every made another post in this forum this is enough in here for someone to make an informed decision.

As to have to explain to anyone why you choose to leave or even stay at RLC if that is the case. You owe no one an explanation, but God. You stand before an audience of one in that. Just a day ago I ran into someone I have known from RLC and they had no desire to know why people have left RLC. They told "my (referring to themselves) only concern is whether we (meaning they and their family) are being fed. If people ask, you why you are leaving you can simply not explain there would be nothing wrong with that. If you want to explain that is another thing you have that freedom, but in the authentic kingdom of God you are free of oblication.

Religion is a obligation management system that is driven by shame and fear all of which are opposite of love.

I'm sorry I seem to have broken the unwritten rule of not asking for specifics when you all think they are written here on the board. What you may not realize is that as an "outsider," I cannot even understand a lot of the posts or figure out what is being discussed because it is general or refers to something not stated. I have spent hours on here, and a lot of the posts are responses to other people, and references to things I can't figure out. I appreciate those of you who have messaged me with your personal stories and specifics. As for deciding to leave the church, it is not so much for me to be able to justify it to my family, but more to clarify my decision with myself. Since I have never been in the inner circle or seen these things myself, I have to trust all of you that there truly is something terrible going on at RLC. I have found that you can find negative views about every church on earth if you look, but it's not always easy to determine if the concerns are founded or not. There are many things about Calvary Chapel on this site but I am not convinced that it is a harmful church. The Radiant Life lawsuit does provide some specifics, but a lot of the allegations are largely subjective. Anyone could claim that someone "psychologically abused" them. Heck, I had a Pastor give me very bad counsel before. Do I think it was intentional psychological abuse? No. Could I claim that it was? Probably. Did the pastor intend to hurt me? No. The only objective complaints in the suit would be the financial ones which can be verified. So, thank you to those who have helped, and apologies to those who think I am trying to find answers without doing the research. Here's what I know:

Many people (more so than is reasonable) have made a mass exodus from RLC.

There was a "Spiritual Parenting" fiasco that destroyed families.

There was a "Discipleship" fiasco that detroyed people's spiritual walk.

The leadership has no real accountability and the entire church is ruled by Tony, who also has no accountability.

There are financial issues where money is unaccounted for and investments that are shady.

SOMA is unaccredited and former students are reporting spiritual abuse.

There was a "casting out demons" phase at some point.

This is my objective list. Please let me know if I am in error in any of these topics. Again, I appreciate everyone's help. This is more than enough evidence for me and I am glad I found this forum.

Tony Bashing....here?

I don't think so.

Hey, sometimes when the testimonies and facts are presented, the truth hurts!

You my be a bit empathetic for Tony I can tell you first hand he has a masterful way of presenting himself as the poor victim as he slanders the people who have posted. That is a fact and that is simply reporting the facts.

So sorry I'm not going to apologize for telling the truth!!!!

Each person deals with Spiritual Abuse differently especially when you still have family members still attending or giving to the one who is doing the abusing it hurts your heart even more. I have found for me, that the more evidence and testimonies from actual victims has been the best help. Each person involved with a cult and cultist needs to have all the evidence presented to them then they need to ask there own questions! Each person, who eventually comes out of a cult has to come to that conclusion on there own! As far a calling people angry, hurling insults and belittling them just makes your understanding of the situation more obvious to the many who have escaped.
I just don’t understand the digs that are coming from people who have been hurt have walked away but then they sound like they are defending the cult leader.

The Bible exhorts us all to examine all teachers by looking at the fruit of the teacher. For the people involved with Tony Cunningham it has been so good for us to compare notes and discover that you’re not the only one who fell for his deception. Yes there are many emotions that surface as people come out of a cult or are dealing with Spiritual Abuse; embarrassment, shame, anger, depression, violated just to name a few.

I have had many people say to me “Cant you forgive and forget?” “Just let it go!” I have to step back and ask what kind of thinking and reasoning is this? Just toss out the baby with the bathwater?.

Forgiveness comes out of Repentance!

I believe that had more people not given up 200 years ago the false teachings of Brigham Young & Joseph Smith, Charles Russell and Mary Eddie Baker would not have taken such a strong hold that they have today.
I know many victims just feel that the best thing is to put it all behind them and not talk about. For some there may be a period of time that they need to be quiet and listen to the Spirit of the Lord. Still there are others who have been so badly hurt that they associate all this hurt with God and want nothing to do with God.

I have found the best healing comes when you can embrace the many who continue to come out of the cult. To reassure them that there identity is in “who God says they are.” So in trusting God, he changes my prospective out of the relationship I have with him. I start to mature into what is already true about me because he already has changed me. If My Motive is Trusting God, Then My Value Will Be Living Out of Who God Says I Am, and My Actions will be Standing with God, with My Sin in Front of Us, Working on it Together. I am allowing God to remove my masks I am now trusting God. I am living out of who God says I am.
God wants to see his reflection in our face the problem with our papier-mâché masks is they don't reflect.

Tammy 1019,

I am grateful that you and seemingly a few hundred others have not been subject to or had the pleasure of enduring the; spiritual abuse, demoralizing discipleship, deceptive deliverance, lies, cheating, ungodly counsel, misappropriation of funds, heartbreak, false testimonies of healing, hurt, spiritual violation and manipulation, curses, berating, belittling and badmouthing, rejection, tears...

I am also grateful that you can look at this from your "objective" point of view and have an opportunity to judge for yourself without all of the baggage of negative experiences.

However, I will not sit idly by as you patronize and dismiss the experiences and testimonies of the list of folks who at some point recognized something was not quite right and even extremely wrong with the leader and so called elders, who left elk grove community/radiant life church (some after 10 to 15 years of tithing and service) only to be ridiculed, rejected, maligned and discredited by the leadership and dismissed by people like yourself who believed the lies and manipulation of the hired hand and instead of reaching out to those who left in effort to figure out what happened and ended up just burying their head in the sand to avoid causing/stirring up trouble or questioning the character of the ones they have 'submitted' their lives to for spiritual growth... the current Elder board and staff and some of the congregation are full of this kind of person who is so blindly in love with the ideals, teachings and charisma of Tony and his sycophantic team of merry men they too eagerly and easily dismiss the experiences of so many, I would dare to say over 1,000 people, those who have/are in process of just up and walking out into the great unknown over the past two years and at a significantly greater pace over the last six months...

It never ceases to amaze me the depths of denial or self deception one will go to in order to avoid admitting/confessing when they have done something wrong or just don't want to deal with the ramifications or consequences of the truth...
One of Tony's favorite sayings that he has used from the pulpit is that "you can choose your actions or you can choose your consequences but you can't choose both" The hired hand has had more than one opportunity over the last 6 months, and several years actually, to 'come clean' as it were, to recognize his ills and the woe that he has perpetrated on this part of the body; to repent and ask forgiveness for his sin and the sins of those he led down the paths of his 'inspired revelations' from the Lord... To return to his first love and to possibly even be restored into the fullness of what he was called to be... but, alas... here we are. There has been no recognition of responsibility, as a matter of documented and even recorded fact, each time he has been confronted or questioned about these issues he has denied any culpability and in the end blamed countless others for the circumstances. And today, we can clearly see the fruit of those choices he has made to conceal and deny.

So it is here on Thanksgiving, a time set aside to remember and recognize the blessings of G-d and to be with the family, I find myself still dealing with the fallout and destructive behavior of a man who wants to be given the key's to the kingdom and all it has to offer, but does not want to submit to any authority in order to be accountable in what he does with those keys. Not only with me, but my wife, children, friends and extended family have all been touched by this mess in a way that we will probably never understand the full ramifications of.

Tammy, you may be correct; Calvary Chapel and even the Radiant Life church building may not be harmful in and of themselves. But who is in charge? Who leads the flock? Who is responsible for the spiritual climate of the body? Leadership 101 dictates that as the leader goes, so go the people... I'll will play the game you are playing and give you the benefit of the doubt and say that 1/2, no, let's say 3/4'ths of what has been posted here is bunk, un-substantiated bullshit posted by bitter people who are just out to villify Tony and have nothing better to do with their lives than make up stories and lies... that leaves us with 1/4 of the testimonies of destructive/cultish behavior and sin as being true... and even in that 1/4th, the hired hand refuses to admit and repent of any wrong doing, blaming others for everything... are you following me here? Now here is an analogy that Tony has used on many occasions in Leadership development to stress the importance of living pure and clean when you are in a leadership position;
If you were thirsty and I gave you a glass of pure, clean water... but before you could relish in it's refreshment I took 1/4 cup of sewer water and poured it in... Would you still drink it? I mean it's mostly clean, right? Would it still be as refreshing and full of healing power? Why not? What is wrong with a little sin here and there? It's not like it'll kill you right?

So it is with this whole, nasty situation. There are actual truths and accounts of wrongdoing, then, there are now also perceived issues and questions being raised as to the quality and character of the Leaders... So until those issues are addressed and dealt with in an "above the board" approach, meaning there is accountability and checks and balances put in place... I will err on the side of caution and, along with those on the list I posted in response you yesterday, will choose not to drink anything from the rlc cistern any longer.

With respect.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2008 10:42PM by Worship_Big.

Question du jour:

True or False? A cub reporter for The Sacramento Bee can launch a brilliant journalistic career by publishing a series of investigative reports on the drama at RLC.

Does this mean we arnt playing football this year? Or maybe we can, we could have two teams, one could be called "The Colt's and the other....uh not sure....The Partiots?"

Dan, Matt, Ryan, Ramses (oops i mean Marc), Karen, Mario, Heidi, Mike, Tom, Guess Who, Mom, and the countless other's who have been brave enough to post thier toughts, beliefs, and feelings on a public forum. I just wanted to say on a day like this I can say that what I miss the most in the midst of such a mess, is the people.
They say sometimes it takes a tragedy to bring a family closer togethor. I am glad we are closer and I am glad we are family.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!


Kevin,


proud of you cuz!

Quote
EZE3.17
Question du jour:

True or False? A cub reporter for The Sacramento Bee can launch a brilliant journalistic career by publishing a series of investigative reports on the drama at RLC.

True of False Posts like this one contribute nothing to the forum.

I'm personally tired of coming on here and finding crap like this it is adolescent at best and there is no value in it to anyone.

[quote TomWilson
Just a day ago I ran into someone I have known from RLC and they had no desire to know why people have left RLC. They told "my (referring to themselves) only concern is whether we (meaning they and their family) are being fed.

You don't know how many times that I have heard this statement by churchgoers. It is a churchgoers justification for leaving a church is the impetus for continual church hopping. When they feel they are fed no longer they leave. It is also a very selfish statement. Often times being fed equates to am I being entertained and not bored. If I am entertained and I am not bored then I will be distracted from the bigger theological issues. The TV pastors do it all the time, ie. Joel Osteen and the Prosperity Distraction. The comment of I am being fed also shows inadequacy. It shows that you need someone to feed and entertain you regardless of what the substance is. If they tell a good story and it sounds good and then they give you a big rahrah Jesus speech then it is deemed good and edible. If you are at Radiant Life and are staying because you are being fed then great, but please think about what you are being fed. The only feeding you need is from Gods word. A pastor fascilitates and leads that feeding, he doesnt do the feeding. The food is there and always available. Evaluate the food. There is good food and there is bad food. Just being fed is not enough because each church will feed. The question is what are they feeding. And get past the personality and entertainment part. I would say it is possible to just go to church on Sundays at RLC and get fed. I did and it wasnt until I started seeing through the fluff of the Sundays that i started seeing very twisted teachings. It wasnt until i saw that oftentimes sundays had an underlying purpose that tony was trying to promote or set up. Anyway. Tom this message wasnt really intended as a response to you but as a response to those who are using the comment that they are staying at a church because they are being fed. I left a church that was doctrinally sound beccause I felt I wasnt being fed. But in fact I learned later it was because I was bored. I went to a church were I thought I was being fed and after a time found out that the teachings were very twisted and abbhorant. Using the terms go where you are being fed leads to a very disjointed, selfish, scattered band of Gods people. Just be Jesus where you are and it is a start. I have a long ways to go with this but hopefully one day will be able to live it out.