Actually, and I am just speaking hypothetically here of course, because there are no current By-Laws, Tony should probably not be taken into consideration at all, since an elder should not participate in a vote that concerns him/herself - It just wouldn't look right, now would it? - unless Tony could also have the General Assembly pull that out of a hat for him, too, like they did when making him a member of the Board of Elders. I would attend that magic show! So, it would be the remaining 4 X .85 = 3.4 or, when rounded to the nearest whole number, 3. Hypothetically, 3 of the 4 who could potentially vote to remove the Apostle could do the job, but alas, as the other poster who dared to answer this extremely challenging mathematical equation (and proved that he/she can handle such subject matter with ease) said, it probably wouldn't happen anyway.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2008 08:16AM by longtimer60.

Quote
Guess Who
I believe that the concept of restoration alliance is excellent and that we should be looking for ways to help our brothers and sisters around the world. What I don't get is with so many excellent, well organized and successful organizations all ready in full force why does RLC have to keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

Guesswho:

Well I said I didn't think I would be writing in this forum any longer, but I'm the only person on here qualified to respond to anything regarding Restoration Alliance.

Restoration Alliance is what resulted from Dan Flory stealing the vision God gave me and then excluding me from everything. The vision was for it to be completely separate from RLC orginally as that is what God was speaking to me. Then Dan Flory, appointed Tony C. Mike and Monica Hoover, Brenda Rodela, Mike Visconti, and Jim Carmazi to the board of Restoration Alliance.

Then Dan he took credit for being the person to bring it all together and the visionary and founder. I even paid for the Domain Registration, before he started completely excluding me and appointed the Board. There are many details about the vision that seemed that God had provided people who had visions to that would fulfill every part of the vision God gave me, however the only things that remained are those you see listed on the web site, plus the sober living house that Mike and Monica Hoover started. Everyone else eventually just walked away after finding out that walking out what was in their hearts would require sacrifices they were unwilling to make. Plus I believe God was not supporting it, because Dan is not the person God have the vision to or raised up to lead it and is therefore a thief and liar. Not only did Dan take credit for Restoration Alliance, but he also used it as a opportunity to promote his own vision of moving to Africa as a missionary.

Now I wish that I had taken the vision when I wrote it down and before I showed it all to Dan Flory that I had copy writed it or something to prove it was my idea and he stole it.

Matter of fact what Dan did to me makes me wonder who he stepped on and whose work he took credit for to get as far as he did in California State Government. Dan Flory. is just more quiet about it, but he is exactly like Tony C., just better at hiding it.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2008 08:40AM by TomWilson.

Could Restoration Alliance potentially benefit from RLC's troubles? Would it, as a non-profit organization, qualify as a "like" organization to which the proceeds from the sale of the property could transfer? Just a question. I could not find a list of the Board of Directors. Do they list them somewhere on the website?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2008 09:00AM by longtimer60.

It is possible! All that I know is Day Flory is a predator who knows how to find and use a persons or situations weaknesses to take advantage of them for his own benefit. So if that is not like Tony Cunningham and RLC I do not know what is.

Dan Flory is the last person on earth I would want to go to Africa as he will be using those poor devastated people to promote himself. However what he apparently doesn't understand is that whatever earthly accolades he gets is the only reward he will receive. And that you reap what you so!

No RA does not list the board of directors on the web site.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2008 09:14AM by TomWilson.

A link to an article on churches that failed to be financially transparent:

[www.christianitytoday.com]

Tom have you ever wondered whether there is a conflict of interest because the high level government worker in the water resource business also has a organization that is involved in water projects in Africa. Not sure but I wonder. There are strict conflict of interest rules for governement employees of each profession. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Bob Baker, pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Lexington, Ky., said his church has a system of financial checks and balances. Baker said he doesn’t want any control of church finances — that’s not his area of expertise — so he consults with church staffers hired specifically to deal with areas of finance.

“As pastors, we should set up a financial system where we can be true to God and accountable to members of the congregation,” he said.

Gifts are another area where pastors should tread carefully, experts say. Congregations often feel a close connection with their pastors. But when congregants try to express their appreciation to pastors by giving gifts, it can put a pastor in an uncomfortable position.

According to Clifford, tax regulations state that unsolicited gifts from one person to another out of love and affection are non-taxable, non-reportable and non-deductible. But when the value of such gifts becomes a regular or substantial part of the pastor’s or any employee’s income, then a line has been crossed.

“This is a tough area of ethics to discern,” Clifford said. “It remains an area of subjective judgment with few clearly demarcated lines.”

Gary Fearn, a pastor from Pueblo, Colo., and part-time tax appraiser, said it’s often difficult for pastors to turn down gifts because they don’t want to offend congregants. But many congregants are just trying to practice Jesus’ message to “bear the burden of your brother,” Fearn said.

Don Loomer, pastor of First Baptist Church of Elk Grove, Calif., said he can understand the tension of being presented with a pastoral gift. A congregant once offered him a new car.

“I turned it down,” Loomer said. The “kind of car he was offering was [worth] about as much as the (annual) living standard of the congregation. I didn’t want it to be a hindrance to my ministry.” (at least it is good to know that the pastor down the street would have turned the shelby down instead of using it up and then trying to make a big show of giving it back)

Fearn said the best way for pastors to increase accountability with their congregations is to increase the financial transparency of the church, since the practice builds trust and credibility.

Most churches could stand to improve that transparency. For instance, Fearn said, board meetings should be more a matter of public record than of secrecy. Inviting guests to board meetings or publishing transcripts of the discussions can help, Fearn said. And quarterly financial statements should be published and broken down into specific terms so everybody knows exactly where the money goes.

Sometimes, even with all precautions, mismanagement happens in churches. And ultimately, say experts like Baker, all cases involving outright corruption have one thing in common — in the end, everyone losses.

Are you getting this attitude RLC.

Just a couple of random thoughts: At the annual meeting protecting disclosure of salaries seemed important. Why such a big deal about what the Pastor and staff are being paid unless they have something to hide. All state goverment workers had there salaries published in the Sacramento Bee, why not disclose your salary to the members. Why just a cursory overview of each expense category? Could it be that the Senior Pastor's salary was not all he received. Maybe he has a salary, his wife's salary, SOMA income, SOMA AD income, car allowance, wife's SOMA income, an expense account and many cash gifts from congregants on a consistent basis.

Could it be that the total household income for some staff is so low that they need goverment assistance to care for their family. If so that is shameful considering our $1,400,000 plus budget for 2008/09. Maybe the household income for other staff members allows them to live an extravagent life style. So much for distribution of wealth (marxisms) or caring for those under your authority.

I was not in anyway suggesting that RLC is in anyway Marxist, Communist or even Socialist. RLC is definately not. If you were to choose a word to describe RLC you would have to go with dictatorship, facism or maybe aristocracy. I hate to give the word aristocracy because you can guarantee that some arrogant *$@# is going to compare RLC to the "Kingdom of Heaven" and "remember it's the Kingdom of Heaven not a democracy" .

Question du jour (This is an advanced word problem for the mathematically inclined. A prize will be awarded for the correct answer):

BUZZ'S REVENGE

Given:

1. A $1 million mortgage on 7710 Stockton Blvd. The annual debt service is $312 K. Payments must be made every month to the lender.
2. Current net rate of attrition of giving units (Note: If this rate is not a constant, i.e. the rate is accelerating, then calculus may be needed).
3. Payroll expenditures are reduced due to the departure of pastoral staff. However, the salary to the Apostle and his wife remain constant, at $160K/year.
4. The remaining "elders" squeeze the last drop of equity out of their homes and lay the proceeds at the Apostle's feet.

At what point will 7710 Stockton Blvd. revert to the lender, and RLC return to Elk Grove Park from whence it came? (Brrr. Baby, it's cold in the wintertime!)

Please express your answer in whole months. I will award the winning entrant with a free lunch (unfortunately at McDonalds. I can't afford anything better).

Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked.

Guess Who,

We all know what you are trying to say. As far as the "arrogant *$@#" goes... if the expensive Italian leather loafer fits... well, in the case of the hired hand and his merry band they would say "if the shoe fits, it is most definitively the fault of this blog and the hundreds of bitter, angry people who have left!"

It is amazing to me to think that all this could come down to a lifestyle that a particular someone, or group, feels they are entitled to receive after investing years of service.