Al Duff and ThePetitor

Thank you both for that latest exchange and I could not agree more.

And would add the amount of church collection money Hugh Black lost in the 1986 multiple shares application scandal has never yet been disclosed to the church attendees whose money was shamefully and illegally mishandled. The rumour was that it was around £1 million. I make no apology for repeating that rumour now since all required is a very quick post from any of the previous executive (or their closest friends who no doubt know) or best of all from Chris Jewell the treasurer at the time. They could squash the £1 million rumour completely (if it was false) by making public the actual loss figure.

Another place where clarity and apologies and Biblical leadership scrutiny (!) are needed.

And I wondered on and off for many years why the Struthers executive did not set up a separate charity for the school, thereby keeping it and the church finances distinct. The answer sadly became obvious. Keeping them in the same charity allowed massive transfer of money from the collection plate to the school without any pesky transfer amounts - such as those The Petitor has shared here - being shown leaving one set of accounts and appearing in another. This way the Church executive could transfer from the local churches any amount they liked and not have to tell the congregations anything OR EVEN show it as a separate figure at the AGM.

Most years there was an annual Easter Conference special collection for the school that usually raised around £20,000. I heard several church members swear blind that that was all the money that ever went from the church to the school.

If that was what was announced it was lies. If that was what people were led to believe that was deliberate deceit.

Lies or deceit. Which means either way the supposedly Christian school was built on sand.

What is it the Bible says will happen to that which is built on sand?

Oh yes, that right...

Good to see the many contributions and well-articulated points, especially in regard to the letter from Alan Martin and the reply he received. Profound thanks to TheGreek, GentlenessandJustice, Phoebe, Anonymousfornow, Redroad, and AmazingGrace for your insightful comments.

I would however like to come back to a few points that have been made recently that may have been glossed over a bit due to the focus on the letter.

Amazing Grace, you mentioned the way Struthers thinking was based on the Old Testament Model, saying:

Quote
Amazing Grace
I’ve longed believe that SMC do not hold to biblical New Testament Church order/ structure but rather see themselves through the lens of the Old Testament leadership where you have ‘Moses’ type leaders who hear from God and then the people follow without question because the leaders are the anointed ones called of God

I totally agree, but would also ask – which Old Testament model? The old Testament has a variety of leadership models personified by the Patriarchs, Prophets, Judges, Kings and other individuals like Moses. Which of these do the Struthers leadership aspire to? Their calling, approach and leadership styles were all different. Which of these disparate styles is the Struthers model trying to emulate?

Like all that they do, it seems to me that the simple answer is they have no idea. They pick odd verses and say these verses apply to them, while missing out the verses before and after that provide context, purpose and constraints. They simply have no Biblical theology, whether old of new testament.

And that of course brings me on to your other well-made point, which is that they would benefit from training at Cornhill Bible School or some other similar institution.

As you say, a two year course in Cornhill Scotland is designed to equip Christians to:

Quote
Amazing Grace Comments about Cornhill
Understand the Bible accurately. (SMCleaders don’t have an accurate understanding)
Teach the Bible effectively (SMC leaders do not teach effectively)
Apply the Bible appropriately. (SMC leaders do not apply the Bible appropriately)
Alongside this, we train men and women to teach the Bible in other contexts such as youth and children’s work and women’s ministries.’

The Keswick Convention has also been mentioned here as a useful source of sound teaching, which is interesting, because one of the leaders of the Cornhill Scotland, the Director of the Pastors’ Training Course Andy Gemmill is speaking at Keswick this year. (There are of course other options, but these are two that are well respected in evangelical and reform circles.)

Finally, a word about democracy and democratic processes. If you read the reply to Alan Martin, you will see there are a few comments about decision-making, and it appears that there is a desire to involve the ‘real’ members more in the decision-making process. The reason ‘real’ is in quotes is because under their current structure the legally recognised Members are the Trustees (the Board of Directors): The ‘real’ members refers to the congregation as a whole.

Phrases that support that include:

Quote
SMC Reply to Alan Martin
we also want mature believers who can weigh up and test what is being said and done

Quote
SMC Reply to Alan Martin
one of the real concerns among the Board has been to consult and gain a mandate from what we view as our ‘real’ members.

and

Quote
SMC Reply to Alan Martin
If our ministers and congregations express a desire for such constitutional documents, then we would view it as the Board’s role to coordinate such a task.

All of these suggest that some of the decision-making should rest with the ‘real’ members.

That sounds positive and I would be pleased if things moved in that direction. If they do, there will I am sure be some technical questions about the exact structure, voting rights, how you become a member etc. That all has to be decided and is a legitimate area for debate and decision.

Please do not let this distract you from the real issues however! If the congregation/ ‘real’ members are to be able to discuss and vote on key issues, let it be important issues like:

[1]Should we have a development programme so that all our leaders attend Cornhill of some other suitable programme of study?
[2]Should we issue an apology to those who have been hurt by past actions?
[3]Should we genuinely treat criticisms as an opportunity to improve and never, never ascribe bad motives to anyone who raises an issue?
[4]Should we commission an independent review into things like the shares scandal and publish the results openly?
[5]Should we publish the value of the funds that were transferred from the congregation to the school over its lifetime?

Here is your chance folks. The previous Directors appear to have created a situation that has been publicly described as a crisis by the current leadership, so the previous leadership clearly failed you.

The current leadership now appears to be following in their footsteps, not taking these matters seriously, doing things like answering important questions about ethical shortcomings by saying it was primarily a financial crisis.

This is your chance, ordinary members of Struthers. If you are to be given power to make decisions, make sure it is the correct decisions that are discussed and voted upon.

I am for example sure that 90% of the members would like the leaders to engage with the issues on this forum and seek to use them to learn and improve (you know, the bit they said they would do in their policy then ran away from when actual questions were raised). So take these issues to the AGM. Make sure that it is these issues, not issues about how votes are cast that are the focus of the discussions. Submit a paper proposing that the leadership post an apology on this forum. If they are serious about handing the power over to you, then you have the right to do that and, if it is agreed at the AGM, you have the right to expect the Trustees to follow your instruction.

Current leaders - why do you not put forward a paper on each of the above issues? You can if you wish recommend that the organisation does NOT implement the proposal, but submitting a paper that is published in advance to the AGM would allow the debate and for the 'real' members to decide.

So let me issue this challenge based on just one of the above. I would like the leaders of Struthers to publish a paper at least two weeks in advance of the AGM that raises the question of whether one leader should apply to attend Cornhill every year for the next five years. As I say, the leaders can if they wish recommend that the answer is 'no' if they like, arguing that the development model you have is in some way superior. That is fine, as long as they explain the options openly and honestly and give people the chance to have their say then vote on the proposal.

That is the kind of more democratic approach they are proposing

... isn't it?

Yes! Yes! And again Yes! to so many of the great suggestions put forward in recent posts. There are so many rich resources in the wider Body of Christ if only SMC would avail themselves of these - Keswick ministries. Cornhill, 20 Schemes. Not long ago Mez McConnell & Andy Prime, from the latter, came over to Ireland to conduct training sessions for one of our Irish Baptist Churches here. I'm sure they would be more than willing to do the same for Struthers, if invited. I keep hoping (against hope?) that there really will be a whole new beginning for SMC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2025 01:37AM by Phoebe 2.

Replying to Phoebe2. Many people have hoped for a new beginning for SMC. I heard that when Alison Speirs and co. left Struthers, a lot of those still in SMC hoped (and campaigned) for change. Here we are almost two years later and what discernible change is there? Has anyone counted up how many people have left SMC even in the past year? It would appear that Glasgow SMC has a fraction of the congregation it once had and is unrecognisable as the church it once was (without any positive change taking place) and has lost a lot of the faithful even in this past few months.
I, for one, stayed in Struthers for a number of years hoping to see even a hint of respect for the congregation but when I hear that the poor members are being called ‘vipers’ from the platform, I can only breathe a huge sigh of relief that I am not in any shape or form, part of an organisation that so openly abuses its congregation. Absolute shame on the leaders who are supposed to lead in humility and love. No one deserves to be called a viper, especially not in a supposed Christian church. SMC has truly lost the plot (if they ever had it in the first place).

Hi all,

I’ve followed this forum for quite some time and to be honest I’m not entirely sure where to begin. It seems many of you had been members of Struthers since the old days! I heard of these ‘glory days’ much growing up. I grew up in Struthers but made the very painful decision to leave back in 2022 (I think!) after having had some reservations since 2019/2020.

I worry if I give too much information I could be identified, and I don’t know if I’m quite ready for that at this stage.

All I know is that growing up in Struthers into young adulthood completely destroyed me spiritually and emotionally. I struggle with nightmares, depression and severe anxiety stemming from my time there. I struggled with suicidal thoughts since I was a teen and felt completely trapped and like I didn’t possess any true autonomy for many of the formative years of my life. After much therapy and support I feel like I’ve regained some sense of peace, but the trauma still comes in waves and cycles.

It breaks my heart to still see some that I love within the church and scrabbling in the ashes to try and repair it. I find it sad knowing I was once as blind and indoctrinated. The fear of it all falling apart must feel quite unbearable. Whilst I do hope this time is a chance for the church to examine and reflect on itself and rebuild from its very core, I do doubt whether this is possible.

These days I’m not entirely sure what to make of God and Christianity in general, but certainly the God I would be interested in believing in is nothing like the God i encountered when I was at Struthers.

Apologies for the heaviness and lovely to ‘meet’ you all. The worst part in this journey can be feeling very alone. It’s certainly nice to feel like there are others who can relate.

Thanks for listening

Hi
Anonymous-2023
It’s good to hear from you.
Im sorry you have suffered and are still dealing with trauma.
You’re not alone we’re here to support you in any way you need.
Just share as little or as much step by step as you can. Many in the forum feel the same as you do, in that giving too much information could mean being identified and that’s perfectly normal to feel like that.

Just know what you experienced was not New Testament Christianity.
Don’t apologise for the ‘heaviness’ …your shared experience isn’t ‘heavy’ it’s your truth. We are here to listen.
AG

Welcome Anonymous_2023,

My heart was breaking reading your post and I hope you are ok.
I’m sorry if we make it out like it was glory days as it wasn’t, not really (although nothing is either all bad or all good).
So glad you took the decision to come out and as you can see from the forum one of the things many people have faced is loneliness.
I hope you can get some professional help for your nightmares & depression – from my experience I would definitely suggest this as so many of us suffer and have suffered from various psychological issues resulting from our experiences in SMC.
Although I myself am going to leave the forum again, I hope you can stay and share with the many others who are well-qualified to help, share and on whom you can lean for a bit.
Give yourself time and please look after yourself. Wishing you well.

***

Hi to All,

Such dynamic activity on this forum these last weeks – it’s been interesting and amazing to discuss with you all.
Some recurring points I see mentioned are:-

- I left and never went back
- I was told that relationship was not for me
- I thought I was the only one who suffered from
my experience in SMC
- I am still a believer and have found a
nourishing church
- I am now an aetheist
- I no longer go to church, but I have personal
values and believe in the “religion of
kindness”
- There are clearly some who are dedicated to
bringing SMC to “justice” and “accountability”
- There are those who dip in from time to time to
make a comment or to read the posts

And there are many more points that I’ve probably not noticed. I see tolerance, I see “agree to disagree”, and we all continue discussing – no-one is cast out because we don’t toe the line or aren’t in agreement. I don’t see anyone who is judging – we are all in the same boat and have one common denominator which is SMC. Largely on this forum there is understanding and an outlet for emotions or situations which we have perhaps never discussed with anyone before. Personally, as I’ve mentioned before, I see this as the main aim of this forum and it’s important.

I came back on the forum after 12-13 years absence as I heard there was a comment about my dear Dad passing and I wanted to reply. The dynamics have been so amazing over the last weeks that I have been caught up in this, however unfortunately it also has its downside, and my mind has been far too full of old thoughts that I left behind a long time ago. It took many years to get Struthers out of me and create the life I have now and I like it a lot and I’m not too keen on inviting SMC into my life in any form again – they’ve had enough air time in my life. In the last weeks I’ve been contacted by several people from way back and for me this sharing has been very precious & worthwhile – thank you so much.

I need however to make one point, and I hasten to add that this is my point of view: accountability and responsibility are not words that figure in the SMC vocabulary – I’ve said this a few times already I know. They are so ingrained in their mindset that they may never acknowledge the harm they've caused, and it can be exhausting to try and seek that validation or change. Their mindset is “we’re right” and everything else is quite conveniently “an attack of the devil”. I admire those who are relentlessly trying to bring SMC to accountability and I’m sure you have your reasons, but I am not sure that you will achieve this.

Although I was not giving tithe in SMC during the whole bookshop or school period (as this was not yet there in 1989), I do remember very well the uber-full collection boxes during the various conferences for the “building fund” and I was tithing at that time so we each in our own period in SMC have all suffered in one way or another.

However, it is also SO important to look ahead, to look forward, to enjoy your life – we only live once – and to put all the SMC stuff behind where it totally belongs and create & enjoy what is left of our lives. I know these words might not be well-received by some very dedicated forum members for whom I have the utmost respect, however although the forum is important, somehow by the very act of discussing SMC we are continuing to give them too much “air time”. That said, it is also very helpful for people who have been alone with their SMC problems for many years to have some solace. I guess I just don’t have what it takes to continue, but I salute those who have been helping many people (known & unknown) for over 15 years.

I sincerely wish you all well in your future journey in an SMC-free environment, whether you are a believer or not, just remember this one thing we’ve all talked about recently : be kind – that’s all we honestly need – we can have our theories, our “religion”, our whatevers, but at the end of the day …. simple kindness is totally under-rated and it’s the baseline.

Thanks for your understanding, take care and thanks for letting me travel some of the way with you,
All the best

Thank you all for the welcome. I’ve largely sought to engage in this group to feel a sense of belonging to a group that understand throughout this period of healing for me. Thank you all for the kind words. It’s funny how that world feels so far away from me now and yet it still affects me so deeply.

I am attending another church now, somewhat irregularly (!) and I am grateful that they are supportive of letting me find my own way and figure out what my faith might mean for me now, but I do find many of the aspects relating to church quite triggering, but I’m getting there!

I recently completed another course of therapy with a counsellor who specialised in spiritual abuse and cults and she was exceptionally helpful in the journey to start to establish a bit more of my sense of self apart from SMC.

This is probably the most challenging and lingering thing I’ve faced - as I felt at the time I was there I had to shape shift and adapt my life to agree with a lot of arbitrary standards, I never really figured out what I thought about anything or what my values were. And if I did question or differ, the indication was often that I was at risk of backsliding, which was a pretty scary concept.

I’m sure I’m not alone in this experience. I hope you’re all doing well and finding peace along the way in your own journeys.

Hello to anonymous _23
I have said all along, to be brought up in SMC must’ve been a totally different universe from what those of us who chose to attend had.
You are on the right course now and take whatever support you can get.


Wistongirl! BFN! I am completely at one with your post.

Thank you all the others for recent summarising and helping give an understanding of recent letters and funds.
My head is spinning.

I've been reading recent posts with a heavy heart. First of all because they seem to confirm that any hope for real change in SMC is misplaced optimism on my part (probably, if I'm honest, that's been my gut-level belief all along). You put it so powerfully, Anonymous2023 when you speak of the need for the movement "to rebuild from its very core" -- something that as time goes on seems more and more unlikely. Your heart-rending details of SMC-related emotional and spiritual anguish have been difficult to read but it's wonderful that you have reached out for help and support in your trauma. The fact that you're even attending a church again shows such incredible courage and resilience -- as AmazingGrace has said, your experience of "church" before was far from New Testament Christianity. I'm praying that you will find a community of believers who truly reflect the loving, caring heart of a compassionate Father God.

It's really quite ironic, isn't it, that the very qualities needed for real change to take place -- humility and courage -- are being demonstrated most clearly in the lives of SMC dissenters.