Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
anonymous_2023
()
Date: March 07, 2025 11:33PM
Hi again everyone,
Whilst trying to avoid making it too obvious who I might be I would like to share at least part of my story. I hope this will serve three ends:
1. To make people who engage on this forum or who read passively feeling similar feelings, feel less alone.
2. To be able to get some of this off my chest, to a group of people who seem to understand.
3. To, with pleading and only intentions to bring about healing and positive change, bring attention to SMC leadership of the harm of the culture which is pervasive at SMC, right up until recent and must change, with a particular concern and heart for young people and children at SMC.
I grew up from my earliest of years at SMC and some of those very early ones were quite blissful. I had a loving family and lots of friends to play with, church clubs and camps were times of laughter, getting muddy and up to mischief.
However, as I grew up I became acutely aware of the pressure my parents were under as those very much been groomed for positions of influence, doing their best to fulfil what seemed to have been pre-determined as the calling for their life.
Family holidays were rare, holidays away from church were always discouraged and so we never truly went far enough away to ever miss a weekend.
I often felt guilty for missing church due to being unwell as a kid...fascinatingly, I always found myself unwell around camp time or New Year/Easter conferences, something of a family joke. It was as if my tiny physical body was rejecting my environment before I could ever articulate my concerns.
I loved my family and desperately wanted to make them proud and so I tried very hard in those years growing up to abide by every 'rule' - no secular music, no dancing as this could be perceived to be seductive/worldy, no parties, no movies above a PG, no relationships with boys, no short skirts or tight trousers or strappy tops, minimal makeup or preferably none at all, no piercings, no tattoos, if you went to the cinema...at least don't tell anyone; no swearing; be careful what you share on social media, no getting too involved in sports that took you away from church time... as they risked becoming your god.
I still struggle to understand a lot of cultural references from those formative years growing up. Some of my peers/siblings didn't seem to struggle so much...they were more introverted/more happy to go along with the status quo...or at least keep their 'rebellion' internal in nature.
I was not like that at all! I was made to feel a bit like a force of nature which had to steered in the direction the church wanted it to go. I needed to 'die to self' and 'have my will broken' and then I could be used...two phrases that make me feel sick to this day.
Much of my teen years were emotionally tumultuous, trying to bend my nature and desires into something that fitted the SMC mould, but I seemed to fail at every turn. I loved secular music, I wanted to date normally...I had feelings and emotions which couldn't easily be quenched and deep down I did feel like something was terribly wrong about everything...but I convinced myself what was terribly wrong was me.
My depression and suicidal ideation had me terrified I may have some sort of demonic possession or influence on my life...that had certainly been implied by SMC leadership from the pulpit...that these sorts of things could be influenced by the demonic.
I lived in a lot of fear for a long time, until in 2019/2020 the world seemed to stop. Through various circumstances (pandemic and others) I managed too get a little bit of space from attending SMC for a time and it wasn't long before I started to question everything. By this point I'd found a lovely guy who I was in a relationship with and the church seemed to be approving, but there were definitely some influential members within the church (not official leaders, but still those with a lot of power in the community) who wanted to know EVERYTHING about that relationship. I really did feel like I had no privacy and as a fully fledged adult I had no autonomy to make my own choices about what I thought was appropriate for my relationship Somewhere in the midst of all of that I hit a breaking point.
It wasn't too long after this I got talking with an old friend who visited me and my now husband and after sharing a forbidden beer (shock horror) we broke the silence and got talking about our experiences growing up (there's A LOT more than what I've shared). We must have talked until the early hours of the morning. That conversation spanned the full breath of emotions - from deep sadness to intense rage and eventually a deep peace about what we needed to do next - we needed to get out.
Leaving didn't immediately bring the emancipation I thought it might...then came the hardest part - the healing. I started to tentatively experiment with doing things that had previously been off limits, starting to live a bit more of a 'normal' life, and discovered that contrary to what I'd been told I didn't lose my relationship with God and I didn't become possessed by any sort of demonic presence.
The only thing that was actually ever going to haunt me was the memories of particularly troubling times towards the end of my time there, feeling like I was going completely insane, wanting to scream about how this was all so wrong, and being made to feel like I was the one with the issues who needed help to see clearly.
I'm still on that journey and there's been ups and downs on the road. Sometimes I do find myself missing being told what to do, what I should think and feeling part of something bigger. My heart aches for others I brought into SMC and others I was so judgemental too when I was at my most fervent.
I have a lot of heart and compassion for many at SMC...I really did love many of them, I still do in a weird way...sometimes I think about how crushing it would have been if I had stayed another 20 years and then it all fell apart...how lost I might feel. I do hope SMC are able to take a close look at themselves, reflecting on discerning words written to them in letters from Pauline and Alan recently and are able to be truly repentant and committed to transforming the culture of unhealthy power dynamics and heavy shepherding from the core. Updating a safeguarding policy is truly the tip of the iceberg. I will continue to pray for that and for them, even if I feel deep down that it may not be possible.
If you got this far, thank you for reading and letting me share.
Whilst trying to avoid making it too obvious who I might be I would like to share at least part of my story. I hope this will serve three ends:
1. To make people who engage on this forum or who read passively feeling similar feelings, feel less alone.
2. To be able to get some of this off my chest, to a group of people who seem to understand.
3. To, with pleading and only intentions to bring about healing and positive change, bring attention to SMC leadership of the harm of the culture which is pervasive at SMC, right up until recent and must change, with a particular concern and heart for young people and children at SMC.
I grew up from my earliest of years at SMC and some of those very early ones were quite blissful. I had a loving family and lots of friends to play with, church clubs and camps were times of laughter, getting muddy and up to mischief.
However, as I grew up I became acutely aware of the pressure my parents were under as those very much been groomed for positions of influence, doing their best to fulfil what seemed to have been pre-determined as the calling for their life.
Family holidays were rare, holidays away from church were always discouraged and so we never truly went far enough away to ever miss a weekend.
I often felt guilty for missing church due to being unwell as a kid...fascinatingly, I always found myself unwell around camp time or New Year/Easter conferences, something of a family joke. It was as if my tiny physical body was rejecting my environment before I could ever articulate my concerns.
I loved my family and desperately wanted to make them proud and so I tried very hard in those years growing up to abide by every 'rule' - no secular music, no dancing as this could be perceived to be seductive/worldy, no parties, no movies above a PG, no relationships with boys, no short skirts or tight trousers or strappy tops, minimal makeup or preferably none at all, no piercings, no tattoos, if you went to the cinema...at least don't tell anyone; no swearing; be careful what you share on social media, no getting too involved in sports that took you away from church time... as they risked becoming your god.
I still struggle to understand a lot of cultural references from those formative years growing up. Some of my peers/siblings didn't seem to struggle so much...they were more introverted/more happy to go along with the status quo...or at least keep their 'rebellion' internal in nature.
I was not like that at all! I was made to feel a bit like a force of nature which had to steered in the direction the church wanted it to go. I needed to 'die to self' and 'have my will broken' and then I could be used...two phrases that make me feel sick to this day.
Much of my teen years were emotionally tumultuous, trying to bend my nature and desires into something that fitted the SMC mould, but I seemed to fail at every turn. I loved secular music, I wanted to date normally...I had feelings and emotions which couldn't easily be quenched and deep down I did feel like something was terribly wrong about everything...but I convinced myself what was terribly wrong was me.
My depression and suicidal ideation had me terrified I may have some sort of demonic possession or influence on my life...that had certainly been implied by SMC leadership from the pulpit...that these sorts of things could be influenced by the demonic.
I lived in a lot of fear for a long time, until in 2019/2020 the world seemed to stop. Through various circumstances (pandemic and others) I managed too get a little bit of space from attending SMC for a time and it wasn't long before I started to question everything. By this point I'd found a lovely guy who I was in a relationship with and the church seemed to be approving, but there were definitely some influential members within the church (not official leaders, but still those with a lot of power in the community) who wanted to know EVERYTHING about that relationship. I really did feel like I had no privacy and as a fully fledged adult I had no autonomy to make my own choices about what I thought was appropriate for my relationship Somewhere in the midst of all of that I hit a breaking point.
It wasn't too long after this I got talking with an old friend who visited me and my now husband and after sharing a forbidden beer (shock horror) we broke the silence and got talking about our experiences growing up (there's A LOT more than what I've shared). We must have talked until the early hours of the morning. That conversation spanned the full breath of emotions - from deep sadness to intense rage and eventually a deep peace about what we needed to do next - we needed to get out.
Leaving didn't immediately bring the emancipation I thought it might...then came the hardest part - the healing. I started to tentatively experiment with doing things that had previously been off limits, starting to live a bit more of a 'normal' life, and discovered that contrary to what I'd been told I didn't lose my relationship with God and I didn't become possessed by any sort of demonic presence.
The only thing that was actually ever going to haunt me was the memories of particularly troubling times towards the end of my time there, feeling like I was going completely insane, wanting to scream about how this was all so wrong, and being made to feel like I was the one with the issues who needed help to see clearly.
I'm still on that journey and there's been ups and downs on the road. Sometimes I do find myself missing being told what to do, what I should think and feeling part of something bigger. My heart aches for others I brought into SMC and others I was so judgemental too when I was at my most fervent.
I have a lot of heart and compassion for many at SMC...I really did love many of them, I still do in a weird way...sometimes I think about how crushing it would have been if I had stayed another 20 years and then it all fell apart...how lost I might feel. I do hope SMC are able to take a close look at themselves, reflecting on discerning words written to them in letters from Pauline and Alan recently and are able to be truly repentant and committed to transforming the culture of unhealthy power dynamics and heavy shepherding from the core. Updating a safeguarding policy is truly the tip of the iceberg. I will continue to pray for that and for them, even if I feel deep down that it may not be possible.
If you got this far, thank you for reading and letting me share.
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
Iquitthestrutherscult
()
Date: March 08, 2025 12:44AM
Replying to anonymous_23
You’ve been very brave in being so open about your difficulties growing up in SMC and I’m sure you will not be the only member of your family who wishes things had been different. The fact that it’s not only older members (going back to the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s etc) who are speaking out but the younger generation saying “This is not right”, makes me wonder how long SMC can exist in its present form, ignoring everything that is being put before them. The open letters from both Alan Martin and Pauline Anderson (has anyone seen the latest one from Pauline Anderson?, she sent a reply to the ‘open reply’ sent back to her which apparently stated very little over many pages of waffle) we hoped would have elicited some progress, open acknowledgement that all is not well, but sadly that does not seem to be the case.
SMC is a failing, dying church which will never thrive until its leaders repent of past and present cultish behaviours and change at the very core of their being.
You’ve been very brave in being so open about your difficulties growing up in SMC and I’m sure you will not be the only member of your family who wishes things had been different. The fact that it’s not only older members (going back to the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s etc) who are speaking out but the younger generation saying “This is not right”, makes me wonder how long SMC can exist in its present form, ignoring everything that is being put before them. The open letters from both Alan Martin and Pauline Anderson (has anyone seen the latest one from Pauline Anderson?, she sent a reply to the ‘open reply’ sent back to her which apparently stated very little over many pages of waffle) we hoped would have elicited some progress, open acknowledgement that all is not well, but sadly that does not seem to be the case.
SMC is a failing, dying church which will never thrive until its leaders repent of past and present cultish behaviours and change at the very core of their being.
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
RedRoad
()
Date: March 08, 2025 08:46AM
Thanks GirlWiston, WistonGirl for walking with us on this most recent part of our life journey. Just like you and someone else in your extended family did in the early years of this forum, once again you have brought a huge amount into the Struthers historical record which can never be taken away.
Your summary of recurring points from Forum is a good clear one. (I always like a forum summary :) )
I, for one, will always remember your advice to "be kind", and that "simple kindness is totally under-rated and it’s the baseline".
When I look back to some of your early posting, you mention processes that helped you. You have mentioned them again in your more recent postings. As you bow out for now, another person has joined us, with yet another traumatic story. Anonymous_2023 has made use of at least one of the tools recommended by you from the recovery kit - professional counselling, taking external help in learning to differentiate themselves as an individual from the suppressed personality required to exist in Struthers. And welcome Anonymous_2023, thank you for your searingly raw post and bravery in speaking out. You are with people who can understand and relate to what you have experienced.
It is uncanny how similar Anonymous_2023 and an early post of WistonGirl's are, even tho there is a 12 year gap in the forum canon, and somewhere around 30 to 40 years difference in age (apologies for age reminder). This most recent witness account cannot be labelled as one from the bad old 80s, nor be cast aside with "it's not like that now".
As well as asking Leadership to notice and respond to the recurring themes, questions, experiences and stories related on this Forum, I'd like to ask Struthers Parents to also notice and respond.
It is not just the Leadership of long past, recent past, present now, who are responsible (not denying that they are).
Parents are responsible for their own life choices and the impact those choices have on the new borns, their Gifts from God, brought into this world.
The trauma that you read about - it could be happening right under your nose.
Look, really look:
What consequences are your children wrestling with?
Who and what did you relinquish your parental duty of care to? Slipped away, unintentionally bit by bit, until ...
(On a contrasting light note, while I was looking through earlier posts, there is a fun reference to someone whose letters the forum is seeking, right at the top of p102. Caveat: there is also another memory in that particular post that gets corrected further down same page in case anyone reads it and says "that's untrue". It was the first anecdote about earrings that made me smile.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2025 08:47AM by RedRoad.
Your summary of recurring points from Forum is a good clear one. (I always like a forum summary :) )
I, for one, will always remember your advice to "be kind", and that "simple kindness is totally under-rated and it’s the baseline".
When I look back to some of your early posting, you mention processes that helped you. You have mentioned them again in your more recent postings. As you bow out for now, another person has joined us, with yet another traumatic story. Anonymous_2023 has made use of at least one of the tools recommended by you from the recovery kit - professional counselling, taking external help in learning to differentiate themselves as an individual from the suppressed personality required to exist in Struthers. And welcome Anonymous_2023, thank you for your searingly raw post and bravery in speaking out. You are with people who can understand and relate to what you have experienced.
It is uncanny how similar Anonymous_2023 and an early post of WistonGirl's are, even tho there is a 12 year gap in the forum canon, and somewhere around 30 to 40 years difference in age (apologies for age reminder). This most recent witness account cannot be labelled as one from the bad old 80s, nor be cast aside with "it's not like that now".
As well as asking Leadership to notice and respond to the recurring themes, questions, experiences and stories related on this Forum, I'd like to ask Struthers Parents to also notice and respond.
It is not just the Leadership of long past, recent past, present now, who are responsible (not denying that they are).
Parents are responsible for their own life choices and the impact those choices have on the new borns, their Gifts from God, brought into this world.
The trauma that you read about - it could be happening right under your nose.
Look, really look:
What consequences are your children wrestling with?
Who and what did you relinquish your parental duty of care to? Slipped away, unintentionally bit by bit, until ...
(On a contrasting light note, while I was looking through earlier posts, there is a fun reference to someone whose letters the forum is seeking, right at the top of p102. Caveat: there is also another memory in that particular post that gets corrected further down same page in case anyone reads it and says "that's untrue". It was the first anecdote about earrings that made me smile.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2025 08:47AM by RedRoad.
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
Rensil
()
Date: March 08, 2025 11:03AM
Welcome to the Forum, anonymous_2023, and Thankyou for sharing your journey with such honesty and clarity. As others have said already, you have shown courage by sharing your experiences of growing up in SMC. As you’ve outlined, your difficulties in SMC seem to have been compounded by your having an outgoing personality and by witnessing the pressure your parents were put under. I am so glad that you and your husband decided to get out: you have made the right decision. It is always hard to leave friends behind: most of us on this Forum have had to do this after leaving and it is painful. But one makes new friends too.
As RedRoad says above, your story tells us that things in SMC haven’t changed a great deal in 30 or 40 years. The same restrictions on young folk, the same legalistic rules, the same heavy oversight of relationships, restrictions on going holidays, on family life, and a focus on getting to the church meetings.
anonymous_2023, You have known no other church nor way of living the Christian life, except for Struthers. But I hope you will realise that the Struthers way of life with all the strict teaching and all the rules one has to keep, is not normal for a church. I have never encountered another church like SMC and I hope you can believe me when I say that there are many great churches out there with loving, caring Pastors and where control and heavy shepherding are not present. I understand what you mean when you say you find some aspects of church triggering, because I experienced this myself during the initial years after I had first left SMC. I remember once being at church and suddenly the Pastor, who was in the middle of preaching, looked at me and made eye contact. This caused a fear reaction within me because I expected to see a judgemental, censorious expression such as I was used to seeing from leaders in Struthers; but I was surprised and instantly at ease when all that I saw was a kind, totally non-judgemental expression on his face. This happened a few times in church and now I have no anxiety or feelings of being disapproved of, if the Pastor happens to look my way.
If I can reassure you, anonymous_2023, healing after being in SMC takes time, years maybe. But it’s an ongoing journey and you will make progress as you continue. You have already made progress, as is evident from your posts, since you are opening up about painful experiences, feelings of trauma and how your mental health was affected and still is. And you are posting on this Forum and have given your reasons for doing so. Please share some more if you feel able to.
On another note, I tend to agree with GirlWiston that SMC leaders are stuck in a mindset which says they are right and other Christians are in an inferior position to them. So I really don’t see them being interested or willing to do Bible training with an outside organisation. I don’t think they will consider such a thing. They don’t think they need to do Bible training or learn how to lead groups in a church setting. Remember, they hear from God and move as the Holy Spirit instructs them. Aye right, as they say in the west of Scotland! (Means No!)
Bye for now!
As RedRoad says above, your story tells us that things in SMC haven’t changed a great deal in 30 or 40 years. The same restrictions on young folk, the same legalistic rules, the same heavy oversight of relationships, restrictions on going holidays, on family life, and a focus on getting to the church meetings.
anonymous_2023, You have known no other church nor way of living the Christian life, except for Struthers. But I hope you will realise that the Struthers way of life with all the strict teaching and all the rules one has to keep, is not normal for a church. I have never encountered another church like SMC and I hope you can believe me when I say that there are many great churches out there with loving, caring Pastors and where control and heavy shepherding are not present. I understand what you mean when you say you find some aspects of church triggering, because I experienced this myself during the initial years after I had first left SMC. I remember once being at church and suddenly the Pastor, who was in the middle of preaching, looked at me and made eye contact. This caused a fear reaction within me because I expected to see a judgemental, censorious expression such as I was used to seeing from leaders in Struthers; but I was surprised and instantly at ease when all that I saw was a kind, totally non-judgemental expression on his face. This happened a few times in church and now I have no anxiety or feelings of being disapproved of, if the Pastor happens to look my way.
If I can reassure you, anonymous_2023, healing after being in SMC takes time, years maybe. But it’s an ongoing journey and you will make progress as you continue. You have already made progress, as is evident from your posts, since you are opening up about painful experiences, feelings of trauma and how your mental health was affected and still is. And you are posting on this Forum and have given your reasons for doing so. Please share some more if you feel able to.
On another note, I tend to agree with GirlWiston that SMC leaders are stuck in a mindset which says they are right and other Christians are in an inferior position to them. So I really don’t see them being interested or willing to do Bible training with an outside organisation. I don’t think they will consider such a thing. They don’t think they need to do Bible training or learn how to lead groups in a church setting. Remember, they hear from God and move as the Holy Spirit instructs them. Aye right, as they say in the west of Scotland! (Means No!)
Bye for now!
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
ThePetitor
()
Date: March 08, 2025 10:28PM
Anonymous_2023, welcome to the fourm. Thank you for speaking out and highlighting the impact that some of the Struthers practices have had. It is interesting to read of these recent events and to compare them to events from a few decades ago.
I am in some ways quite amused at your mention of people referring back to “the glory days” as those of us who were there in “the glory days” will tell you that all the talk then was about how all the current pain would be worth it because revival was coming – well, as long as we suffered enough – and we would live to see “the glory days” in the future. Interesting that the glory days are never now, but are always far in the future or the past.
GirlWiston, so lovely that you could join us for while! I appreciate you may have pulled back by now and may not see this, but well done for sharing your experience, including things like the observation that engaging in the forum can bring back traumatic memories. I suspect that affects different people to different degrees, but I certainly agree that people have to be aware of the impact things are having on their lives and there can be times we all need to withdraw for a while.
As you say, it is good folk can express different opinions and as you said recently, “… not be dragged off to the blue room for deliverance”. I loved that line, which will get repeated a few times I suspect!
Phoebe, as you say, it is really quite ironic that the very qualities needed for real change to take place -- humility and courage -- are being demonstrated most clearly in the lives of SMC dissenters. The contributions here have been mature and measured and many show considerable courage. If there was only some recognition that the leaders were not the experts in absolutely everything, there could be a real opportunity for change.
In passing, I think the points about therapy are interesting. I would never discourage folks from getting any support they need but, in my view, some sort of supportive community can be one of the really effective ways to build resilience. That can be a new church, immediate or extended family, friends on this forum, local villagers, a book group or some other group, but I personally find that feeling part of a supportive community can make a bit difference. That is of course one of the things that creates the problems in the first place – that Struthers does give you a community, but the whole thing is then ripped away from you if you do not worship the leaders and you are as a result left bereft.
I think that RedRoad’s comments about parents are also so, so important. Certainly important enough to bear repeating:
As someone (Pheobe) said recently “Yes, yes and again yes!” Parents – this is your responsibility. These are your children. Read of the traumas suffered here. You cannot hide your head in the sand, you need to take responsibility for caring for and supporting your children. They deserve to have a better understanding of how to make good life choices than this. Please do not be fooled by the Struthers rhetoric that is it only by staying in Struthers that you have a chance that your children will be saved and will have a good life. Neither of these are true, and the evidence is in fact that remaining in Struthers is most likely to lead to bad outcomes.
If you will not leave for your own sake, will you not leave for the sake of your children?
Finally, Rensil – I take your point about the leaders never accepting external Bible training, but that is my point – the leaders will never accept that. What they are however claiming is that the real power is going to rest not with the leaders but with the congregations. So, I am challenging the leaders to put their money where their mouth is and to write a paper for the AGM that explains how people will develop as capable Ministers.
This could perhaps have three options:
Option 1 (the Diana model): Individuals who are identified as having “spiritual potential” have car journeys with an existing leader so that these leadership qualities are passed on by some form of osmosis (with an optional advanced module where they get to feel rejected because that support is suddenly cut off in favour of some other person who is identified as having even more spiritual potential and is given their seat in the car).
Option2 (The Cornhill Option): Commit to external support from an organisation like Cornhill Bible School with a different leaders signing up to their two-year programme every year.
Option 3: (The apprenticeship model): Second people to a church that is growing and developing for a period of three years so that they can learn from others. As all Struthers leaders have an amazing gift that is not found elsewhere, these people will presumably be welcomed into other churches with open arms and frequently asked to preach right from day one.
As I have said, the leaders could recommend option 1 if they thought that was best, that is their prerogative. I think option 1 sounds ridiculous when written in black and white, but if they think that is the best model, they can surely write it up and justify it.
Whatever the options are and whatever the recommendation is, the point is that the congregation would get to decide though. That is what they are claiming: that decision-making is being put in the hands of the ordinary members. So here is a way to test whether that is an honest proposition or is just rhetoric that they do not really mean.
Rensil - this is the point I was making, not just about the need for external training, but about the claim that they are shifting decision-making to the 'real members', which I quite frankly do not believe.
I suspect we will never see a paper like that at the AGM because the leaders know fine that the members would go for option 2. So 'real members', do not be fooled by fancy papers presenting options to you: the only options that will be allowed to be discussed will already have been carefully selected. You are not being given power to make important decisions that will affect how the church actually works.
Please do test this - ask for a paper on training and development options to be presented. Get them to try to explain why they do not want decisions like this in the hands of the 'real members'.
I am in some ways quite amused at your mention of people referring back to “the glory days” as those of us who were there in “the glory days” will tell you that all the talk then was about how all the current pain would be worth it because revival was coming – well, as long as we suffered enough – and we would live to see “the glory days” in the future. Interesting that the glory days are never now, but are always far in the future or the past.
GirlWiston, so lovely that you could join us for while! I appreciate you may have pulled back by now and may not see this, but well done for sharing your experience, including things like the observation that engaging in the forum can bring back traumatic memories. I suspect that affects different people to different degrees, but I certainly agree that people have to be aware of the impact things are having on their lives and there can be times we all need to withdraw for a while.
As you say, it is good folk can express different opinions and as you said recently, “… not be dragged off to the blue room for deliverance”. I loved that line, which will get repeated a few times I suspect!
Phoebe, as you say, it is really quite ironic that the very qualities needed for real change to take place -- humility and courage -- are being demonstrated most clearly in the lives of SMC dissenters. The contributions here have been mature and measured and many show considerable courage. If there was only some recognition that the leaders were not the experts in absolutely everything, there could be a real opportunity for change.
In passing, I think the points about therapy are interesting. I would never discourage folks from getting any support they need but, in my view, some sort of supportive community can be one of the really effective ways to build resilience. That can be a new church, immediate or extended family, friends on this forum, local villagers, a book group or some other group, but I personally find that feeling part of a supportive community can make a bit difference. That is of course one of the things that creates the problems in the first place – that Struthers does give you a community, but the whole thing is then ripped away from you if you do not worship the leaders and you are as a result left bereft.
I think that RedRoad’s comments about parents are also so, so important. Certainly important enough to bear repeating:
Quote
RedRoad
Parents are responsible for their own life choices and the impact those choices have on the new borns, their Gifts from God, brought into this world.
The trauma that you read about - it could be happening right under your nose.
Look, really look:
What consequences are your children wrestling with?
Who and what did you relinquish your parental duty of care to? Slipped away, unintentionally bit by bit, until ...
As someone (Pheobe) said recently “Yes, yes and again yes!” Parents – this is your responsibility. These are your children. Read of the traumas suffered here. You cannot hide your head in the sand, you need to take responsibility for caring for and supporting your children. They deserve to have a better understanding of how to make good life choices than this. Please do not be fooled by the Struthers rhetoric that is it only by staying in Struthers that you have a chance that your children will be saved and will have a good life. Neither of these are true, and the evidence is in fact that remaining in Struthers is most likely to lead to bad outcomes.
If you will not leave for your own sake, will you not leave for the sake of your children?
Finally, Rensil – I take your point about the leaders never accepting external Bible training, but that is my point – the leaders will never accept that. What they are however claiming is that the real power is going to rest not with the leaders but with the congregations. So, I am challenging the leaders to put their money where their mouth is and to write a paper for the AGM that explains how people will develop as capable Ministers.
This could perhaps have three options:
Option 1 (the Diana model): Individuals who are identified as having “spiritual potential” have car journeys with an existing leader so that these leadership qualities are passed on by some form of osmosis (with an optional advanced module where they get to feel rejected because that support is suddenly cut off in favour of some other person who is identified as having even more spiritual potential and is given their seat in the car).
Option2 (The Cornhill Option): Commit to external support from an organisation like Cornhill Bible School with a different leaders signing up to their two-year programme every year.
Option 3: (The apprenticeship model): Second people to a church that is growing and developing for a period of three years so that they can learn from others. As all Struthers leaders have an amazing gift that is not found elsewhere, these people will presumably be welcomed into other churches with open arms and frequently asked to preach right from day one.
As I have said, the leaders could recommend option 1 if they thought that was best, that is their prerogative. I think option 1 sounds ridiculous when written in black and white, but if they think that is the best model, they can surely write it up and justify it.
Whatever the options are and whatever the recommendation is, the point is that the congregation would get to decide though. That is what they are claiming: that decision-making is being put in the hands of the ordinary members. So here is a way to test whether that is an honest proposition or is just rhetoric that they do not really mean.
Rensil - this is the point I was making, not just about the need for external training, but about the claim that they are shifting decision-making to the 'real members', which I quite frankly do not believe.
I suspect we will never see a paper like that at the AGM because the leaders know fine that the members would go for option 2. So 'real members', do not be fooled by fancy papers presenting options to you: the only options that will be allowed to be discussed will already have been carefully selected. You are not being given power to make important decisions that will affect how the church actually works.
Please do test this - ask for a paper on training and development options to be presented. Get them to try to explain why they do not want decisions like this in the hands of the 'real members'.
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
Mulberry
()
Date: March 09, 2025 01:33AM
Anonymous_23
Welcome and thank you for your very brave account of your SMC experience! It pretty much reflected my own personal experience of growing up in Struthers. I left in my mid twenties simply because I had- and still do have- a very analytical mind and after much cogitation, came to the conclusion that Struthers were "wrong" on so many levels. I could not correlate the oppressive and denigrating teachings of Struthers with the teachings of love and salvation in the Bible. I also surmised that "spiritual discernment" was something of a 'hit or miss' concept after witnessing Miss Taylor's "chosen ones" quit Struthers for new and less spiritual life styles.
My parents have admitted culpability in my exposure to the dangerous practices of SMC and with much sadness and regret, have apologised profusely.
With regards to more recent events, I do find it somewhat ironic that Pauline Anderson is writing letters to the leadership demanding answers and redress for the many past and present failings of SMC. To me, Pauline was a Miss T wannabe who bullied her way through the youth movement in the church. Her holier-than-thou attitude plain for all to see! Given that she was one of the inner circle, I fail to see how she can levvy any grievances against the organisation who massaged her ego and gave her a position of leadership. Or perhaps tis just sour grapes because her ex-chum Diana Rutherford got the big position and she didn't? Indeed, I firmly believe that many Struthers' wannabes noses were put out of joint by this unfortunate election and left the church with their egos and overall leadership aspirations in tatters. Obviously, these are my own perceptions and I certainly don't wish to offend anyone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2025 01:53AM by Mulberry.
Welcome and thank you for your very brave account of your SMC experience! It pretty much reflected my own personal experience of growing up in Struthers. I left in my mid twenties simply because I had- and still do have- a very analytical mind and after much cogitation, came to the conclusion that Struthers were "wrong" on so many levels. I could not correlate the oppressive and denigrating teachings of Struthers with the teachings of love and salvation in the Bible. I also surmised that "spiritual discernment" was something of a 'hit or miss' concept after witnessing Miss Taylor's "chosen ones" quit Struthers for new and less spiritual life styles.
My parents have admitted culpability in my exposure to the dangerous practices of SMC and with much sadness and regret, have apologised profusely.
With regards to more recent events, I do find it somewhat ironic that Pauline Anderson is writing letters to the leadership demanding answers and redress for the many past and present failings of SMC. To me, Pauline was a Miss T wannabe who bullied her way through the youth movement in the church. Her holier-than-thou attitude plain for all to see! Given that she was one of the inner circle, I fail to see how she can levvy any grievances against the organisation who massaged her ego and gave her a position of leadership. Or perhaps tis just sour grapes because her ex-chum Diana Rutherford got the big position and she didn't? Indeed, I firmly believe that many Struthers' wannabes noses were put out of joint by this unfortunate election and left the church with their egos and overall leadership aspirations in tatters. Obviously, these are my own perceptions and I certainly don't wish to offend anyone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2025 01:53AM by Mulberry.
Replying to GirlWiston’s final posting
Posted by:
Liz25
()
Date: March 09, 2025 04:58PM
Thank you to GirlWiston for her final submission and such helpful previous posts.
Personally, I’m still trying to process everything- having left it almost 20 years since last in a ‘meeting’ before sorting it all out.
These were not 20 wasted years, because life ( as GirlWiston’s) has been very positive and productive and BUSY but retirement brings with it the weird effect of
unwinding-thoughts and reflecting on the past which, for me, coincided with some very interesting entries here from about page 208 on.
For the record, I did write on this forum before, probably around 2012, under a pseudonym and not one person commented on my longish post ( it’s fine :-) ) so I drew the conclusion that I hadn’t been ‘meant’ to write it. That post was mainly about my difficulty in comprehending MB’s mistrust of men, with disastrous outcomes.
My entry appears to have been lost when the website changed.
So where am I now with regard to SMC?
One of the most helpful things I’ve found is the ‘one tool’ description from the Petitor’s 2nd post on P221 here. Struthers using mostly only one tool from the whole Christian box and that being the spiritual experience, this to the neglect of all the other available tools and to the detriment of those of us who had the tool used on us, or who used it ourselves when leading meetings ( this is my apology! ).
While this can be a good & effective tool, where it is used so fervently and exclusively, it has definitely produced some bizarre and dangerous results.
Living with this one focus means (and I agree with GirlWiston here) that no one living from that perspective will apologise. Why apologise when everything you do is spirit-led? Who can argue with that?
People here have spoken about the loneliness when they moved out of Struthers or difficulty in adjustment. What I found was that I noted in people not in struthers, a practical and sensible approach to life which was so helpful, particularly in the early years of having kids. Work colleagues who could offer useful advice, other parents at the school gate all providing a rich tapestry of life missing within the SMC church experience.
A funny aside showing this support, I once, when still in SMC, took one of our sons for a couple of nights away in Perth. He wanted to buy a book ( he was 8 and loved reading). The book he chose was the first Harry Potter book and I banned him from buying it as had heard it contained ‘magic’ and was therefore ‘dark’. Was telling another non SMC parent this and she went quiet and then said ‘I’m of the opinion if they want to read, let them read what they choose, within reason.’
I let him have it and he devoured the whole set which inspired him to move on to Lord of the Rings which, ironically I’m sure is allowed in SMC. Both of these pieces of literature enriched his vocabulary and imagination and definitely opened a positive, spiritual side in him.
I understand we all write on here from our own understanding of things and not everyone will find every post useful but I hope that someone, maybe on the fringe of moving out from SMC might find this helpful.
Personally, I’m still trying to process everything- having left it almost 20 years since last in a ‘meeting’ before sorting it all out.
These were not 20 wasted years, because life ( as GirlWiston’s) has been very positive and productive and BUSY but retirement brings with it the weird effect of
unwinding-thoughts and reflecting on the past which, for me, coincided with some very interesting entries here from about page 208 on.
For the record, I did write on this forum before, probably around 2012, under a pseudonym and not one person commented on my longish post ( it’s fine :-) ) so I drew the conclusion that I hadn’t been ‘meant’ to write it. That post was mainly about my difficulty in comprehending MB’s mistrust of men, with disastrous outcomes.
My entry appears to have been lost when the website changed.
So where am I now with regard to SMC?
One of the most helpful things I’ve found is the ‘one tool’ description from the Petitor’s 2nd post on P221 here. Struthers using mostly only one tool from the whole Christian box and that being the spiritual experience, this to the neglect of all the other available tools and to the detriment of those of us who had the tool used on us, or who used it ourselves when leading meetings ( this is my apology! ).
While this can be a good & effective tool, where it is used so fervently and exclusively, it has definitely produced some bizarre and dangerous results.
Living with this one focus means (and I agree with GirlWiston here) that no one living from that perspective will apologise. Why apologise when everything you do is spirit-led? Who can argue with that?
People here have spoken about the loneliness when they moved out of Struthers or difficulty in adjustment. What I found was that I noted in people not in struthers, a practical and sensible approach to life which was so helpful, particularly in the early years of having kids. Work colleagues who could offer useful advice, other parents at the school gate all providing a rich tapestry of life missing within the SMC church experience.
A funny aside showing this support, I once, when still in SMC, took one of our sons for a couple of nights away in Perth. He wanted to buy a book ( he was 8 and loved reading). The book he chose was the first Harry Potter book and I banned him from buying it as had heard it contained ‘magic’ and was therefore ‘dark’. Was telling another non SMC parent this and she went quiet and then said ‘I’m of the opinion if they want to read, let them read what they choose, within reason.’
I let him have it and he devoured the whole set which inspired him to move on to Lord of the Rings which, ironically I’m sure is allowed in SMC. Both of these pieces of literature enriched his vocabulary and imagination and definitely opened a positive, spiritual side in him.
I understand we all write on here from our own understanding of things and not everyone will find every post useful but I hope that someone, maybe on the fringe of moving out from SMC might find this helpful.
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
Phoebe 2
()
Date: March 09, 2025 06:11PM
Like Liz25 & others I'm sorry to see GirlWiston leave the forum. Her down-to-earth and insightful posts have always been helpful - as indeed could be said of so many other contributors. Even though our experiences of SMC may have differed in various aspects, there has been much common ground and because of that the huge relief of knowing "I am not alone in this".
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
Phoebe 2
()
Date: March 09, 2025 06:11PM
Like Liz25 & others I'm sorry to see GirlWiston leave the forum. So many of her down-to-earth posts have been helpful - as indeed could be said of so many other contributors. Even though our experiences of SMC may have differed in various aspects, there has been much common ground and because of that the huge relief of knowing "I am not alone in this".
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by:
RedRoad
()
Date: March 09, 2025 09:59PM
Found by AGeek - original post of 2011, with a large gap before a response 6 months later by Chesterk55. Liz25 Sounds like Chesterk55 found the original posting had a lot of sense in it. :)
Quote
P32 Pilgrimess
Posted by: Pilgrimess ()
Date: August 29, 2011 03:39AM
Hello. I have read the various comments over a couple of months, with interest.
My experience was years of commitment in Struthers, the last 10 or so where I felt bound in to something with a feeling of not being able to escape. It will seem incredible to anyone who has not been in this kind of situation to try to understand why I stayed in it for so long. It is a complex thing to be involved in such a machine.
I will introduce myself by sharing a few of the things which puzzled me.
Why did Struthers always start a separate Christian gathering at Higher Education establishments? Why was the established Christian Union not considered good enough?
Why, when women were doing almost everything in the 'meetings' did the female leader insist that when the sacraments were being given out it had to be done by one man and one woman, not 2 men?
Why, when Bible classes were run, were females allowed to lead the group (at that time comprising mostly young boys) on their own but when a male was on the rota he had to be accompanied by a female? (This was nothing to do with 'Disclosure' but to do with the church leader not trusting the spiritual condition of men.)
I know some young men who have turned out to be strong and highly respected friends in their own part of society who were frozen out at a young age as they were considered 'dark'.
So I have now introduced myself and explained my position!
Quote
P40 Chesterk55
Options: Reply•Quote
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Chesterk55 ()
Date: March 02, 2012 10:27PM
I think the question Rensil has raised here is exactly right and I agree with all the answers that have been given to it.
Why do they not reply?
Now we look back and we see things we didn't realise at the time we can see this lack of providing information, answers and reasons has always been a problem. They sent us out but they were never with us. They told us to expect sharing their teachings might well get us into trouble but never defended us or stood by us if it did. They never backed us up in any tangible way - for example by giving us proper information about their teachings. Then they dumped us as followers as soon as we had any problems at all. Does anyone else think that doing that to young Christians stinks to high heaven?
So now we ask them to justify their teaching which we were sent out to spread for them and they can't. They can stand up in now secret meetings (where the recordings are too embarrassing to be publicly shared) and say whatever pops into their head and call it God speaking. But as soon as there is public scrutiny they run and hide. In fact they are saying to their own loyal congregation – we are not going to stand up as your leaders and defend your church by dealing with these questions. We are in fact going to going to bravely pretend none of this is happening. We will leave each of you on your own to come up with your own explanation for the vast amount of material now questioning the validity of our teachings, our decisions as leaders, and the public record of our self serving unkindness to so many people.
We can only hope people do figure it out for themselves. They give no answers because they can't. They have no answers.
An excellent illustration of this comes from looking at the questions asked on this forum some time ago by the Pilgrimess.Quote
Quote from the Pilgrimess:
Why did Struthers always start a separate Christian gathering at Higher Education establishments? Why was the established Christian Union not considered good enough?
Because I listened to them for two decades I came to the conclusion that the SMC leaders believe they are “better”, and more tuned in to God than most, if not all, other Christians and churches. Part of what helps them maintain that belief is cutting themselves and their people off from other influences. When people encounter other Christian leaders, other Christians and other churches (such as they do at Christian Unions) they realise very quickly that this Struthers teaching about their own superiority is utter balderdash. So, as I said earlier, they send young people out (or they did - these separate Struthers university and college things are long gone now), to push the "unique and special" Struthers message. We now realise we were sent out with no back up – even a simple document to give people explaining what Struthers believed, and why the leaders believed a separate college organisation was necessary. They were prepared to send us out to push their agenda but were not prepared to state publicly their rationale and give us the information we needed.
So – like today and their non response to these websites – they simply passed on to us the problems of trying to somehow explain their weird teachings as coming from the bible when we were – perfectly reasonably - asked to do so. This of course raised questions which we brought back to the leaders and we received a similar welcome to the one this forum has had. We (in our naivety) exposed their lack of any answers to these issues – which was no use to us as those on the front-line fighting to promote Struthers ideas. And then they dumped us as soon as the real world problems with their teaching which we raised became annoying to them. They could ignore these things – why couldn't we? Obviously not spiritual enough.
The leaders were at least smart enough to know that anything which documented their real teachings would uncover their arrogant attitudes and expose them - quite properly - to ridicule. So they the "brave leaders" hid behind us - the honest mugs. I do not believe God is angry with us for that. I do believe those who have called themselves leaders will be asked to give an account.Quote
Quote from the Pilgrimess:
Why, when women were doing almost everything in the 'meetings' did the female leader insist that when the sacraments were being given out it had to be done by one man and one woman, not 2 men?
Why, when Bible classes were run, were females allowed to lead the group (at that time comprising mostly young boys) on their own but when a male was on the rota he had to be accompanied by a female? (This was nothing to do with 'Disclosure' but to do with the church leader not trusting the spiritual condition of men.)
I know some young men who have turned out to be strong and highly respected friends in their own part of society who were frozen out at a young age as they were considered 'dark'.
I knew of the attitude but not that it was put into practice in this particular way.
It was and remains the teaching of Struthers (until they publicly change it) that God has revealed to them, particularly through the views of the lady who started Struthers, that men are fundamentally less "spiritual" than women. If this sounds unhinged and bizarre teaching - it is. Yet they subjected men (and boys) to this repeated claim for years but have never had the courage to admit this teaching in public, for example in any of the many books printed by the church. If they did this they knew they would be stepping outside any sane Christian interpretation of the bible and they know they have no ability to justify this. Yet they believed it was a fact because God told them. And they act on it as illustrated here by the Pilgrimess.
Latigo in their report on the Humiliation Sermon write about a sermon just a year ago where the speaker has a weird rant about the unsipirituality of "young men" in the church (evidenced by the fact that they liked humour) and who who had to be “driven right out of the church” as a result.
Is there any answer you can share with the public as to where this anti-male teaching and attitude comes from Struthers leaders? No we thought not.
Obviously there are serious capability issues in the Struthers leadership. They have no biblical training, they have no accountability so have not had any need to learn how to justify their teachings, and the belief that God speaks to them because they are special (a bit like Moses) has gone to their heads. Proof of that is when their "inner voice" contradicts any recognisable bible teaching and they choose to follow the "inner voice".
How convenient.
Any pain they have caused people, every vision that has failed to materialise, and each supposedly God given teaching they have later changed are so far left unexplained. They then characterise every mention of these real and important things as satanic opposition – as if that was even a reason not to answer. Not for Jesus or for Paul, or come to that for Amy Carmichael and CT Studd. They would all tell the Struthers leaders their duty was to answer all of this and answer it well - or apologise and change.
The real reason for the silence I think we all know. Much of their teaching is utter nonsense and has no biblical foundation. To address our questions would expose that. Seeking “the deep presence of God” has become a substitute for speaking the truth, knowing the truth and helping those in need. Seeking experiences and personal revelation has become the primary goal – not the much harder work of learning about, obeying and following the Christ revealed in the bible.
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