Wow! What a rich seam of comment. All very interesting. Hello to new commenters.

Can I make a couple of points for the defence? First, Miss Taylor.

While she had faults and did a lot of damage, she was an exceptionally gifted person. I remember the rant Liz mentioned and it was well bad. But I spoke to her privately quite a few times and she was invariably really nice in one-on-one meetings. I have to say I loved and respected her. (The book about her is called A Modern Christian Mystic.)

Since others have had the courage to open up their souls on this forum, I will do so, to illustrate why I can't condemn her.

I graduated from London University and was nicely set up to do funded postgrad in Bristol. Instead, I got it into my head - I had become extremely zealous, certainly no longer shopped at 'Boy' in King's Road - to go to Scotland to ... well, help build the kingdom. This was a terrible error, rooted not in revelation but in imagination, and I landed on the Maryhill dole queue, one of Maggie's Millions. It took a decade to rebuild my career.

One ray of hope in what was for me a wretched, lonely, poverty-stricken time in a new country (Scotland is different from England and I confess I support Scottish independence), was that Miss Taylor strongly supported my idea of who should become my partner.

The only problem is that the young lady in question wasn't interested. This of course bewildered and killed me. It was four years later that the still-young lady was herself struck by Cupid and approached me. (Maybe just scraping the bottom of the barrel.)

I - dutiful as ever, and you'll think this was cultish and stupid - phoned Miss Taylor and asked her her opinion again. She said yes, she still thought it was the will of God.

And she added that this is how it often works, an initial dying and then resurrection. She cited an older couple - I won't name them but if you think it might be your parents, you can PM me, if you're interested - who had approached her and she said she told them 'no' even though she knew it was 'yes'; that they had to come to a state where to marry or not to marry was equal in their eyes, and that she knew they would marry in due course.

Now that is tough ministry, for sure, but it can be defended if you look at the teachings of Jesus Christ (please, never, 'JC').

So Miss Taylor was indeed a seer. What was wrong is that she contaminated her deep spirituality with her own 1950s ideas. For example, she fatwa'd wine. But Christ's first miracle was to turn water into wine (if you believe in the historicity of the gospels). The ban on moderate drinking is man-made, rubbish spouted by all Pentecostal churches of the time.

As the joke goes, Jesus turned water into wine, and ever since the evangelical church has been trying to turn it back into water. I once told Mr Black that joke but he didn't find it funny. Well, I think it's funnier than some of his jokes.

Now Miss Jennings: again, I have fond memories of her. She was a terrific trouper, a kind person, a hard, selfless worker. Of course, she trotted out Faith Mission axioms, and some of them are demonstrably false, but she lived faithfully according to her lights. She fed us all. I won't hear a word against her!

Anyway, this has been too long a post, and perhaps a rather self-indulgent one. But perhaps it will be of interest to some. Please note that I am not negating what anyone has written, including one 'Liz25' - dear reader, I married her - but just saying there were positives as well as definite negatives.

Since no ne has popped in quickly, let me finally add a couple of anecdotes about Miss (Elizabeth)Taylor.

Once at camp Mr Black said something about the difficulty of working with her. She pointed at him and said "look at the size of my problem".

Then when she was in hospital after her stroke I took her some baklava. The nurse said, "here's yet another visitor for you. You really must be the actress Elizabeth Taylor!"

She shoots back, "Then where are the diamonds?"

Miss Taylor was witty. Gifted. But I'm glad I escaped from the tight ship she ran.

I’m sorry, Al Duff, but I don’t think it is right for any Minister or Pastor to tell people whom they should or should not marry. They might confirm it but it shouldn’t be necessary to ask for permission from a Pastor to marry someone. That is getting into the realm of control and is what cults tend to do. Issues of the heart which lead to marriage should be between you and your partner alone, and if a Christian, then there’s a seeking of the will of God. That’s it.

Like Liz25, I have known of several man/woman relationships in Struthers which were broken up by the leaders. Not only by Miss Taylor but by Hugh Black also. He once told an engaged couple that their marriage wouldn’t last six months. They left SMC, got married and have had a long and happy marriage. A Theist101, your account of what happened to you in this area of relationships, says it all. Things might have worked out for you, Al Duff, but this wasn’t the case for everyone.

Hi Rensil, I totally agree with you. And it wasn’t me who felt the need to ask. We debated it then and we had a healthy debate again last night.
I think I probably know the couple you’re referring to, spoken so rudely and intrusively by Mr B.

Hi Rensil

Thanks. I agree with you. They had far too much control, revelled in it. I saw Mr Black and Mary Black wreck many relationships, families and careers. I know whom you are referring to who were told their marriage wouldn't last. Horrific.

Basically, as I've said before, Struthers is a spiritual kindergarten. They keep you in perpetual childhood.

I think this is too big an issue in the history of Struthers to pass over quickly. Jesus was asked “By what authority do you do these things?” There is no new testament basis for letting someone else decide who you will marry. The only injunction in relation to that comes from Paul in Timothy 4:1-7. Forbidding to marry (and other similar restrictions) are a sign of false leadership, demonic doctrine, godless myths and old wives tales. That is quite a list. Those who try and control marriage go way, way beyond any biblically derived authority.

Look at the present situation. The Alan Martin letter asks for very reasonable clarity about the bewildering mechanism re how leadership appointments are made in Struthers which has always been vastly open to favouritism, abuse of power and idiotic criteria. And he also reasonably asks once in those positions what leaders can and can’t do and what are the extent (and therefore limits) on their authority.

Does anyone - even among the most delusional, heavily medicated, long term faithful followers of the Struthers way - believe that a public document will be produced in reply specifying that the leader of their individual church (or the overall Struthers leader guru at that time in their life) should have the final decision on their choice of life partner? Even the present leader who does say some staggeringly foolish things knows that to put that in writing would be so idiotic and inappropriate it would be church ending.

But if they believe that is the extra revelation God has given them (beyond anything scriptural) they should have the courage they so often claim to have and come out and say so publicly.

And not be surprised when the rest of the Christian world cries “heavy shepherding”, “heresy” and “cultish behaviour”.

And they would be correct. The bible limits authority of Christian leaders because they are so often venal, corrupt, ignorant and damagingly wrong and specifies that they need to be in an accountability mechanism that stops and corrects them when they are. That accountability was entirely missing in the Black/Taylor era and clearly still remains one of the main reasons for the Struthers churches ongoing internal strife and ongoing public failures.


So one swallow doth not a summer make and even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Meaning that in spite of any anecdotal success, the disasters of the marriage interference policy are widespread and in many cases heart-breakingly tragic. People now of pension age are alone and have lived desperately lonely lives because they followed this cursed, evil and unbiblical advice from a Struthers leader. No benefits or leadership or “specially anointed” ministry resulted from that obedience – even though the leaders said it would. Not even any particular recognition or respect. So those Struthers leaders were therefore fools or liars. The unmarried, ageing women of Struthers followed a teaching made persistently and repeatedly in Struthers in the 70s and 80s which than vanished. Those who responded to this teaching of the single life being more “holy” were not provided for or valued or seen to spiritually prosper in any way. The teaching was false and benefited only the controlling instincts of the leaders.

There is also some evidence of a twistedness in the recent story shared by Al Duff. He shares an oft repeated and well remembered story and indicates that Taylor, “knew” that a couple should marry, and fully belied it to be the will of God.

Yet when they came and asked her what she thought God wanted she told them both - No.

Whit? How is that helping in any way?

On what basis did she take it on herself to lie about what God had told her?

When it finally emerged that the couple were going to be together did they discover what benefit they gained from being required to work their way through years of confusion and then to realise the leader was just playing games? Whit?

Was Taylor in the habit of knowing what God wanted and then telling people the opposite? It would explain a lot.

Sadly its not even funny as similar interference left people devastated, heartbroken, resulted in them leaving the church and sometime losing their faith. Many never emotionally recovered and many suffered deep psychological damage.

Also relevant is that the vast majority of the successful long term marriages of those who got married in Struthers have only lasted because the couple realised together the inappropriate control on their lives and left to find more biblical leadership where people were taught, strengthened and encouraged. Places where marriage was valued. Places where people were trusted to have the strength in God to make decisions for themselves.

And there are a few long term marriages conducted in Struthers which have lasted (though fewer every week at the moment as more couples leave), and a tiny number where one of the couple has come into a leadership role. Yet it is obvious to many of us as observers that these marriages are not....er…patriarchal by any means whatsoever. An example of that would be Hugh Black’s marriage which sat firmly in the West of Scotland Brethren traditions of a century ago. Neither do they appear to be examples of balance and equality.

Yet perhaps that is a leadership requirement that could be written into the reply to Alan Martin. “Leadership will be given to those who remain single, marry only as directed by existing leaders and within that be an example of a marriage which displays strong matriarchal leadership”


This has been a nice period in the discussion with many encouraging and helpful voices old and new. One of the conclusions though, especially from the most recent posts is that the more attention the leaders gave people generally the more damage they brought to their lives. If you were fortunate enough to be despised and neglected by the leadership back in the 80s – now that blessing is becoming abundantly clear.

Thank you , the Greek and Rensil . It is absolutely true what you say ...the more "attention " they gave to people .."the more damage was done " .

To "control " who one marries is wrong . To " matchmake " people is wrong .

" Dating normally" was " not allowed " ..in the " death to self preaching " .

Yes, i can certainly testify to leadership interference in both of my romantic relationships (the second resulting in marriage).

At the August camp 1986 and at the tender age of 17, I met a lad who had started to attend the Falkirk Church. We got on like a house on fire and by the end of the camp had become quite close. We agreed to keep in touch by telephone during the week and meet up at the Saturday night meetings. This continued for almost 1 month but in that time I sensed a gradual coolness in his persona and his feelings towards me.

I was rather naive when it came to romantic relationships having never experienced one
before, so continued to hope that it was all in my head. Sadly, it was not. Jennifer Jack called my father (who was a leader in one of the branch churches) and told him that the young man wished to end his romantic relationship with me in order to "experience a deeper walk with the Lord". I later found out that he was "advised" by Jennifer Jack to end the relationship as I was not a "good influence". Now, I must stress at this juncture, I was a very God-fearing young woman who strove with every fibre of her being to live a sanctified life. So how could Jennifer Jack conclude that I was not a good influence? Oh yes, that would have been good old Struther's gift of discernment in operation! Incidentally, Jennifer Jack later issued a blanket ban on the Falkirk youngsters interacting with the Greenock youngsters as we were ALL "ungodly".

Thankfully, I was able to move on emotionally intact, although seeing the young man and being ignored by him every weekend did hurt a
little.

Two tears later my now ex-husband expressed a liking for me and pursued me relentlessly over a few months. We started "dating" and eventually developed deep feelings for one another. We decided that we wanted to marry. So, Mr Black was approached and his stamp of approval given; he believed that we and our children (should we be blessed with them) would be involved in the future of SMC. Sadly, we both left the church 3 years later and 18 years ,2 kiddies later we were divorced. So, where was the discernment?

They messed with people's lives and futures on a mere self-aggrandising whim!

This was rather long-winded and I do apologise!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2025 12:52AM by Mulberry.

Al Duff, you are the ONLY non-leader person I have ever heard had some kind of friendship with Miss Taylor. New awe and wonder from me :) However, to me, you sound like "the exception that proves the rule." Questions come to my mind as to what your next steps would have been if Miss Taylor had changed her mind as to giving approval. TheGreek I like your arguments better than Al Duff's! :)

Seriously, I know we have complained on this forum of leaders using scripture to back up a position, a line they want to communicate out, but your question,
“By what authority do you do these things?” really cuts to the nub of Forum questioning and your quote from 1 Timothy Ch4 really does seem descriptive of what this Forum has documented in relation to both the deliverance and the single life issues. You have summarised the heartbreak of a certain demographic of the Struthers congregation past and present. What Biblical truth does underpin the change of approach in relation to the "single life" policy?

Mulberry, you have been brave in putting your personal story out there. At age 17 I doubt you were thinking that your Falkirk friendship was going to end in marriage. If Jennifer Jack had left well alone, who knows if it might have continued or fizzled out. Such things should be the natural part of growing up. I suspect if the same situation had happened within my home environment, it too would have had a "banned" outcome - how on earth were we supposed to learn about making good relationship decisions when experimenting, failing and getting up again was banned?

Hi RedRoad

I'd no intention of posting a lot on this forum, but somehow, I think inspired by Lesley and Liz, I find myself looking it up daily. First world problem, I guess.


You ask a question and I'll answer it. I warmed to Miss Taylor long before the marital episode. At my first church conference, where I got baptised, she handed me a piece of paper with a 'baptismal promise', that is, a verse, written in her own hand. I'd never met her before, and lived 300 miles away.

The verse was perfectly judged; of the 31,102 verses in the Bible, this was the one that suited me most. It described and I knew it described the arc of my whole life.

I knew as soon as she handed it to me that she had spiritual perception, was an oracle. I still have that piece of paper and it still encourages me.

Had she said 'no' to my choice of partner, I would eventually have rejected her opinion, for one simple reason: the choice was rooted not in imagination but in revelation. Thus, it did not surprise me when she concluded, after saying 'let me pray about it over the weekend', 'yes, I felt God's blessing on it'. Some marriages are indeed, made in heaven.

I was lucky.

I do agree with the learned Greek and yourself, however, that this is a dangerous business for any pastor to get into. But I was quite insecure and mixed-up at the time, and needed confirmation. So I found it very helpful.

Now, of course, I've 'put away childish things' - and I advise everyone in Struthers to grow up and cast off their apron strings.


P.S. Rumours that I claimed I had seen Miss Taylor walking on the water off the Greenock esplanade, are false. ;)