Wow folks, I'm amazed at the frenzy of posting too over the past few days.I feel the "sense of belonging" that 101 noted. I think the intensity, weirdness and isolation of our Struthers past lives may be why there is an immediate bond. All the different kinds of inputs are good and no style of posting better than another.

Looking thro' past couple of days - there's some heartfelt posting from both FalkirkBairn67 and BlackSheep57. Will Struthers change? What about the current children and young people? FalkirkBairn is highlighting current live concerns not just adults looking back at their own lives and how they have coped.

Thanks for reminder BlackSheep for me to think back on my own actions. I have been judgemental in my opinions about specific leaders past and present. I don't think I want to apologise yet!! (I was born and brought up in Struthers after all and my care-givers taught me well). I'm not sure whether we can properly call out persistent abuse without naming some names. But I understand the theory, and yes we do all need to look at our own behaviour, actions, attitudes. Thank you for being so honest and heartfelt in what you've said.

Phoebe2 right from when I first discovered the forum, I have really enjoyed reading your posts. Would you be willing to give us Forum readers some background as to how you came into contact with Struthers and why you would attend when you were back on home leave? What a significant impact Struthers contact has had when you are still unravelling impact 50 years on. Did you view your Bible understanding and missionary practice thro' a Struthers lense even tho' you were an intermittent attender? Did this cause conflict with fellow Christian workers around you?

AmazingGrace I love your serious study, you have looked into so many different things already. I don't have the knowledge to respond to you, but I'm hoping others do. Maybe even some who follow and don't post might be encouraged to PM you to continue that conversation. (sounds like one for the theologians like Liz25's brother, Phoebe2, ThePetitor, the Canadian priest Enkrateia to get involved in). As for whether anything I or GirlWiston wrote being in a HB book - I have no idea - thankfully I left as he was beginning to write! In terms of a very simplistic answer, I would 100% agree with BlackWatch's summary that you quoted. I don't think it can be repeated often enough. I would simplistically add "By your their fruit you will know them".

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I cannot attribute the SMC experience in any way as a deep spiritual one given the manipulation, trauma, abuse and deep-seated control. For me, the two simply cannot co-exist. There may have been the appearance of such a thing, a mirage if you will, but on reflection, it's empty and vacuous and borne out of smoke, mirrors and lies.

I love your summary too Iquitthestrutherscult. It's another one for me to keep looking back at.

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None of us walked away from our ‘high calling’ as a result of leaving SMC. We walked away from a highly abuse church which possible robbed us of the best years of our lives. Let’s hope this forum will serve to warn others as to the dangers of this cult-like organisation and that it saves them from years of confusion, hurt and pain.

GirlWiston I totally get what you're describing, "like two people in my body". Cos that would be me too. Although you were always more fashionable than me!! (lol) I read the list of nots v v quickly - there are more that can go on the list - the social humiliation and shame was one of the awful things we grew up with, but still not as bad as deliverance sessions.

In terms of some more past history, I know Mr Cleary had a Salvation Army background so he had had a grounding in core bible teaching and preaching before he came to Struthers. Did any of you ever hear him preach? Like Roy Barbour (CBarb's dad), he was both hilarious but a really effective, bible based preacher. And LOUD! Downside - seem to remember he also could deliver a scary hell-fire sermon just like GirlWiston remembers HB on Greenock Sunday Nights. He was so loyal. He stayed. But if he remained the man I knew, he would have been shaking his head in disbelief while the next 2 decades unfolded. He was another most definite "good man" (as Bobby Morrison also referenced by GirlWiston). He taught the young men in the 60s and 70s to play brass instruments, and this was resurrected in the 80s with Roy Barbour (until he left), Hugh Gilchrist, Hugh & son Martin McConnachie, John Wallace, Graham Offord being part of the church "orchestra" in the side seats at front of Greenock church Sat nights. Anita on viola, probably other Offord and Gilchrist girls on violins?? memory rusty. The Cleary family must have had their fair share of emotional pain and conflict of loyalties too. They had a number of children and not one stayed in the church. They, along with the Black girls, were the very first generation of children in the 50s and 60s.

Thanks everyone. Apologies at how I go on, I don't seem to be able to write succinctly, I am a bit enthusiastic (lol) and everyone contributes so much that sparks yet another thought in my head. Have a good week everyone.

In response to RedRoad's request that I give Forum readers some background as to how I first came into contact with SMC, I'll do my best to summarise what is quite a lengthy story, so here goes!

Back in the early 1960s, when I was a teenager, Mr Black was invited by a Pentecostal fellowship in my home town in Ireland to speak at a series of special meetings. I've no idea how the group got to know about him, or SMC, but the folk there appreciated his ministry and he was invited back on several occasions. At that time our family was attending this fellowship regularly (later it disbanded and we joined a local Baptist church). On one of Mr B's visits he mentioned the SMC summer camps, then at Wiston Lodge in Lanarkshire, and suggested that some of us might consider going over for the Camps. I took him up on that suggestion, as did a few others, and from then on attended Camp every year until I went to work overseas, when I would visit either the Greenock church or one of the Camps during my home leave. (And, for your interest especially, RedRoad, I remember so very well the sense of excitement and anticipation each time the red roads of Wiston came into view!).

Those early camps, as I remember them, were quite small in numbers and this probably contributed to what was a real sense of fellowship, camaraderie and even (believe it or not) quite a bit of fun. I formed friendships then that carried on through many years and relinquishing those friendships was one of the most painful aspects of my divorce from Struthers. However, undoubtedly the really important element for me in the whole SMC experience of that time was the prospect of encountering God in a depth and dimension I had not previously thought possible. My final visit to Camp also happened to be the final year at Wiston Lodge before the Camps moved to Lendrick Muir, so in more ways than one it was the end of an era. By then the disturbing preoccupation with demonic activity accompanied by the "deliverance" floor-shows were already happening -- something that seemed to develop while I was overseas as I don't recollect this taking place in earlier years, at least not overtly, either at Camp or at the church in Greenock, where I sometimes stayed for a few days either before or after Camp. Anyway, I was already beginning to question aspects of SMC's theology and practice (or maybe I should say the theology that undergirded their practice). No doubt exposure to the wider Church, both at home and overseas, contributed to that, including the discovery of a very different kind of Biblical preaching and practice.

You also asked, RedRoad, if and how my experience of Struthers impacted my missionary experience -- an insightful question! As a member of a church-planting team, briefed with starting a new church in a suburb of a third-world city, Struthers (or what I knew of it at the time) was initially my ideal mental blue-print of what a church should be (!!). Quite apart from the theological implications of this, in retrospect I can't think of anything more naive in terms of mission in a cross-cultural context. Let's just say I lived to become older and wiser. Also, I was only a very small cog in the wheel of a gifted team of co-workers and the church that was eventually born owed a great deal more to the efforts, vision, wisdom and guidance of my wonderful colleagues than it ever did to me. (And of course to our wonderful God as the One ultimately responsible for birthing it into being by His Spirit).

Well, this has been a long spiel, so maybe this is enough for now!

Thank you phoebe2. I had not picked up from the forum pages that you had attended so many camps. You will certainly been able to notice the changes in style over the years. (Joke - hope you did not turn up one year wearing a hat to discover …. hats had been redeemed). I am so sorry to hear you lost long standing friendships. It is a living grief. Like cutting part of yourself off. And initially, I assume, no one to talk to about it who would understand. Thanks again for telling some of your story.

Hi Phoebe 2
‘Back in the early 1960s, when I was a teenager, Mr Black was invited by a Pentecostal fellowship in my home town in Ireland to speak at a series of special meetings’
That’s interesting you came from Ireland… did you know the other group who came regularly from Ireland?
One of them preached at camps/ conferences and ministered for a time then stopped coming.
Just to say like red road, it’s a shame you had to give up long standing friendships.
AA

Yes indeed, in response to your query Amazing Grace, I did know the others who came from Ireland, although they belong to a different church. I don't have much contact with them but a couple of years ago was able to talk about some of my misgivings with one of them, many of which she shared.

Hi Phoebe 2
Yes that’s nice to hear that you knew them.
I didn’t know them from a friendship bond but all of them always gave over a genuine, down to earth Christianity.
I did have a one to one with the person who ministered / preached and found them compassionate but also straight talking in a very kind way. This was a way back in 87.
Among the circle that I was in from SMC, the Irish group were all very well liked…. You may have been seen as part of that group :)
It was a shame they stopped coming. I heard things through the grapevine about why they stopped ……. Possibly a Disagreement with one or more of the leadership.
Unless you hear directly from them I really don’t know.
I wish them all well.
AA

Thanks to Phoebe 2, RedRoad and Amazing grace for adding important history to the group, filling in some informational gaps and for sharing your stories. Most interesting and, once again, highlighting the contrast between the many “normal” Christian people ministering and the SMC leadership methodology. Appreciated.

101

Thank you all for previous recent posts and some kind words to me.
I write this in response to the query, ‘Who was Miss Taylor?’.
I offer no personal opinion of this following account but would like to know if anyone else remembers it and how it affected them.
Around 1984/5-ish, Miss Taylor, in the morning meeting at Wiston said she would like everyone who wanted to commit themselves fully to God to come to a special gathering in the afternoon. A silence was over lunch as we prepared our souls.
We waited prayerfully in the meeting hall & heard Miss T come along the corridor with Mr. Black, she, exclaiming in a loud voice, ‘What are all these people doing here? Why on earth are all these people here?’
She then preached at us, condemning us for being there. She said she only considered there were five, possibly six people who had given themselves totally to God and they should be the people in front of her.
We took the beating and obediently sat telling ourselves off then, for attending.
The talk between ourselves later, in hushed tones was, who could these 5 or 6 people be? It seemed to eliminate some that even we would’ve considered to be in the very centre. We puzzled as to who it might be of the leaders who wasn’t in that strict core of five or six individuals.
I’ve always wondered what those leaders thought of that and now wonder why none preached a comforting sermon to their traumatised flocks.
For reasons such as that incomprehensible meeting ( as well as nonsensical lifestyle and behaviours I’ve already mentioned) I no longer attend.

Enjoyed your comment about the hat, RedRoad! No, I didn't make that faux pas. Head-coverings were still very much in vogue right up until my final visit, although if I remember rightly folded handkerchief-type scarves were beginning to be very much in vogue rather than hats.

By the way, Amazing Grace, the friend from the Irish group with whom I discussed my misgivings about SMC was the same person you described as preaching and ministering at one time at Camps and Conferences (although I had stopped visiting SMC by then). She did share with me some of the reasons her invitations to minister came to an end but it's her story, not mine, so I don't feel at liberty to share the details -- suffice to say that it appears to have been another illustration of a gifted person being side-lined and the whole situation mishandled in a way that caused a significant rift, at least at the time (to be fair, I do know that some of the relationships involved have since been repaired).

On another topic, you will be interested to know that I too went through that phase of reading/listening to the cessasionist versus continuationist debate and some of the names you mention are very familiar! There are many godly men and women on both sides of the debate, as you will have discovered, and we can learn from them all. One you don't mention and may not be familiar with is Andrew Wilson, of King's Church, London, who is to my mind one of the most balanced continuationsts. If I lived in London I would certainly seek out that church. I guess I could describe myself now as a kind of semi-continuationst! Although I would no longer use explicitly Pentecostal and Charismatic terminology to describe the work of the Holy Spirit (e.g., I now understand "Baptism in the Spirit" to be part of a Christian's initiation into the Body of Christ, rather than a second experience subsequent to conversion) but I certainly believe in the powerful work of the Spirit in both conversion and the ongoing life of a believer. Anyhow, as you yourself have suggested, I think for us as survivors of SMC the real debate is about the authenticity of the SMC experience. My own conclusion is that there was (and is) an admixture of true and false doctrine as well as real and pseudo-spiritual experience. That's what gives rise to so much confusion and inward conflict as we try to discern which is which, hold onto the good and discard the bad! (I Thess. 5:21 -- "Test everything, hold firmly to that which is good).

I'm very glad that in the whole process of deconstruction and reconstruction I've discovered I don't have to dismantle and discard absolutely everything that was part of my own SMC experience. For example, I still remember with great affection and gratitude the wonderful kindness and hospitality of many individuals to someone from "across the water", especially in those early visits. There were -- and I'm sure still are -- folk with hearts of gold, who love Christ deeply and sincerely wish to serve and honour Him. Sometimes too, "what the Enemy means for evil, God can (and does) turn to good" as part of the process He uses to make us the people He wants us to be. For one thing, I personally would most likely never have discovered the incredible riches to be mined in the wider Church outwith the Pentecostal orbit if I hadn't had to grapple with the issues we are exploring in this forum. Once again, quite enough for now! With love, lots of fellow-feeling, and prayers for you all.

Dear Liz25 - I had submitted my last post before reading yours, otherwise would have commented on it. I had very few dealings with Miss T myself (& would have been overseas at the time of the Camp incident you mention) but was aware (& puzzled by) the authority she seemed to wield and the reverence in which she was evidently held. Just one little incident from my own experience - I was invited to the wedding of a girl in SMC who at the time was a special friend. Some time later she sent me a beautiful professionally-taken wedding photo of herself, her husband and . . . . Miss Taylor!!. I couldn't get my head around that - where was the family, where were the bridesmaids? In retrospect, with all that I know now, I guess it was to indicate that her marriage had received the impramateur of the one person who mattered most.