Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: GirlWiston ()
Date: February 05, 2025 02:20AM

Hi RedRoad,

Oh you bring back memories (lol) Mrs Morris & the little rebellious ones - bless! We picked up Mrs Morris every Sunday morning for church - she was part of our car :-)

If I may say « tongue in cheek » I bet the very same little rebellious ones knew their bible better than some on the platform as we were all drilled in bible class by my dear Mother & Mrs Wallace. We had to learn ALL the books of the Bible & recite screeds of bible passages I still remember to this day :-)

Greetings to all

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Lesley ()
Date: February 05, 2025 06:41AM

Thanks to those who replied to me with kind words both publicly and privately.

Praying for the "little rebellious ones" - That's awful labelling and for those hearing it, it's a warning of what happens if you don't toe the line.

Public prayers can be well intentioned but can also embed suggestions that can have either positive or negative consequences. I have studied and practiced clinical hypnosis so I am fully aware of the power of suggestion.

The Petitor raised the issue of the lack of teaching of topics that were held dear like prayer and exorcism despite its frequency of use.That may be true in relation to exorcism however another topic held dear was "death to self" and my recollection is that there was a huge amount of teaching on it.

Whilst a member of SMC I found it curious that fasting was in the Bible and yet I never recalled hearing it preached about. I once asked HBB why it was never one of the examples given from the pulpit or advocated as a way to enhance one's spiritual practice. Perhaps not one of my more tactful or diplomatic questions but I wasn't trying to annoy or provoke. I genuinely found it confusing when there seemed to be scriptural precedent for prayer and fasting yet it was never mentioned whilst "death to self" was regularly spoken about. My question was not warmly received . . . The answer was something along the line of there being different types of fasting, food being only one of them. Maybe, but even so, food was still never mentioned...I wasn't convinced by the answer given and felt it was more in line with personal motivations.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Amazing grace ()
Date: February 05, 2025 08:51AM

Hi All

Lesley a warm welcome to the forum. Thank you for openly sharing your experiences.
I’m so glad you ‘broke free’. Not an easy thing to do. As girlwiston states
‘ is only when THEY "see the light" by themselves that they can change and this is a process.’
You also said ‘I wanted a normal life with the prospect of relationships and a family of my own’ ….I believe that’s the normal Christian life…and should have been encouraged in any Christian organisation. The constant push from the platform to remain single was both unbiblical and unhealthy. I know of so many that didn’t marry in their early years and have missed out in the opportunity of having a family. Some in later years …very often after having left SMC ..did marry which I took great joy in. And even if you were open to marry, and couldn’t connect with anyone in SMC, it was greatly frowned upon to look outside SMC unless they came into the church and truly became part of the fold. Otherwise you were missing the high calling of God.
The other point you made was about exorcism. As the theist put they had an ‘unnatural (in my opinion) fascination with demonic’. Even if you believed that a Christian could have a demon (as the petitor states ‘ How can the Holy Spirit live in a person who has a demon?’)the way in which they ministered was appalling.
Did each person who was used in this ministry go through an extensive training programme, only after years of showing evidence of the fruits of the spirit.
Did they only offer this service when there was real cause for concern for a persons physical health…like throwing themselves into a fire! Well we know this wasn’t and isn’t the case.
Regardless of what we think of the RC church or religion and exorcism in general, at least they have a whole team e.g. a known exorcist in RC church works with a team of doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists….to rule out any other cause for a person's suffering before diagnosing demonic possession. And note a person is only referred because of severe physical or mental suffering and it’s done with compassion to relieve them of this.
I’m also glad to hear that the love for your parents gave you courage to walk away. Your family must have been very relieved.
Can I also say I would subscribe to ‘my religion is kindness’ too, although I don’t always get that right, but hope I try!
I had to apologise to others for my actions when I broke away from SMC, particularly to family. Redroad is right in saying when ‘someone is in the SMC mindset, NOTHING and no-one can change them - they think (I did too) they are right’. I believe I was like that, legalistic and I would say self-righteous. Although inside I was broken and felt like a complete failure!What a a dichotomy!
My deepest regret and sadness is the wrong Christian witness I portrayed to others, especially to family and the hurt or harm that I caused.

I would end in saying again thank you for your honesty Lesley and for being so frank. :)

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: blackwatch ()
Date: February 05, 2025 08:06PM

Having followed the forum for close to 15 years now, it always amazes that every now and again, we get a wee surge of life and vigour, even after all this time!

Welcome to the new contributors. Thank you for sharing and for helping to make this a place of rich experience and might I say, therapy (at times).

I note, with sadness, the passing of Hugh McConnachie. I know the McC's were quickly made welcome in the Baptist Church on departing from SMC and set about contributing from an early stage. I could be wrong but I think Fiona even made the heady heights of President of the Woman's Guild! As has already been mentioned, Hugh went on to re-train as a Baptist Minister serving in Gourck and Westray. Lovely, wholesome people that I had a lot of time for. Something in the back of my mind tells me Hugh originally qualified as a joiner and he certainly put those skills to great use too.

Comment has been made too about some, perhaps, now having no particular faith. Personally, I see this space as being welcoming to all, regardless of belief or conviction. Wherever you are on your journey is your business (and good on you all, whatever your stance).

Lesley, you really made me smile with your delicate raising of the fasting question. I've addressed this on here before: Hugh Black was a gluttonous man with an addiction to food. (Many people are, and we have better understanding of this now - and that's a good thing). However, what cannot and must not be overlooked is the sheer hypocrisy of the situation. It's beyond laughable that this was tolerated.

Again, I've said this before, but history teaches us that those that are the most willing to stand up and preach against the sins of their fellow man are often the ones with the most secrets. See the preacher that's just itching to speak about the darkness in others? - They're the ones to watch.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: ThePetitor ()
Date: February 06, 2025 02:44AM

Some interesting discussions and contributions recently - it is good to see these matters aired openly.

Lesley - I laughed out loud at the fact you asked Mr Black why fasting was never mentioned, then laughed again at your somewhat understated comment that it was, 'Perhaps not one of my more tactful or diplomatic questions'.

That is the problem though, isn't it - only certain questions are allowed and woe to a member of the congregation who dares to ask one of the unaskable questions - things like why they do not advocate fasting, or why they changed their policy on wearing hats. I know I am like a broken record about that, but I think it is hugely important - no so much whether they wear hats of not, that does not bother me much, but why it changed. Women wearing hats was a Struthers requirement and is explained as such in one of Mr Black's books. So - was he wrong? What has changed?

That is the problem I have with comments that things have changed in Struthers. Some things may have changed, I don't know, but there are people out there still affected by what was preached decades ago. If the leaders have learned from their mistakes and things have changed as a result that is good, but they need to stand up and say that - they need to say it was wrong to treat people the way they were treated, and they will not act in these ways going forward.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: RedRoad ()
Date: February 06, 2025 06:29AM

It has been quite something (not sure of correct words right now) to see various phrases of youth and childhood appearing on the forum. These phrases had such an impact on me as a teenager. They remind me why I posted thoughts last summer about having experienced/ still experiencing Complex PTSD - until old enough, I could not escape the confined environment and some responsible for my well-being actively went along with constraining individuality and beating down of their own children (literally).

Lesley's phrase "death to self" - almost makes me shiver with bad memories of the number of times self-same phrase was parroted out in the family home. There's another well-worn parental phrase that comes to mind, but I will be cautious and not state it. How was this in any way a preparation for growing up and joining the world of work, the world of balanced relationships? For taking responsibility for yourself and not giving up?

"the high calling of God" - I'm a bit rusty, GirlWiston, need a refresher from your mum on Bible passages (lol) - but was that actually anywhere in the Bible? I cannot currently remember, definitely slipping, or even backsliding, folks. But what I do remember was that it could be played as either a mystical never-never land carrot to dangle in front of someone or a put-down that you were not that material, its use adapted to circumstances.

Another one - "the single life" - Amazing Grace has written really well about the life-long damage this has caused, particularly to female attendees in Struthers. I have friends of 30 years in the wider Inverclyde evangelical circle, who have commented on a frequent basis when Struthers comes up in conversation (really?) on the sadness and strangeness of seeing so many single ladies in Struthers, wondering why so many of them are there compared to other churches. (And there's that statistical anomaly feature that seems to go along with discussions re Struthers popping up again - thinking of the statistical conundrum of quantity of deliverance supposedly required there). Is "the single life" a biblical thing? Obviously the RC church decided it was, but that was surely a man-made decision in the early 1st or 2nd century. (Sorry folks, I left interest in detailed theology quite a long time ago). We do know that not all the prophets of OT were single, and we do know that some/(many??) of the original disciples/apostles were married. Apostle Paul was not. And there was an Ethiopian Eunuch (Oh - just remembered HB's sermons on all those Baptism services at Conference weekends in Greenock .... memories).

This forum shows we are not stuck any more. We have begun journeys out of constraint. We can enjoy strong, healthy relationships with others. We can DISAGREE!! We can put forward ideas to be knocked about, with or without a conclusion being formed.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: RedRoad ()
Date: February 06, 2025 06:43AM

Oh - and not to hog posting - but would like to say thanks to Amazing Grace - your examples of how Deliverance would be treated in RC church are very interesting and
a quite different way to look at the subject.
I do think that the old established churches, although supposedly "dead" (there's another phrase), over the centuries they have seen it all, and perhaps they have thought through some things in a planned, collegiate manner. I believe the Anglican church has a similar set up and officialdom re exorcism. (Obviously the same old churches have also had plenty of problems with safe-guarding, so let's not be rose-tinted).

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Mulberry ()
Date: February 06, 2025 06:53AM

GirlWiston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi RedRoad,
>
> Oh you bring back memories (lol) Mrs Morris & the
> little rebellious ones - bless! We picked up Mrs
> Morris every Sunday morning for church - she was
> part of our car :-)
>
> If I may say « tongue in cheek » I bet the very
> same little rebellious ones knew their bible
> better than some on the platform as we were all
> drilled in bible class by my dear Mother & Mrs
> Wallace. We had to learn ALL the books of the
> Bible & recite screeds of bible passages I still
> remember to this day :-)
>

I can still recite the Beatitudes...50 years on! I loved your dear Mother's Bible Class. Such a loving and fun lady.

Nice to see you here GirlWiston!

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: A Theist 101 ()
Date: February 06, 2025 07:56AM

Greetings one and all. I simply wanted to express my gratitude for the contributions over the past few days. There has been so much wisdom, information, humour, concern for others, understanding and righteous anger that I can’t possibly comment on it all at this late hour. However, let me say how much I’ve enjoyed reading your messages. They have given me food for thought which I am still digesting! I look forward to reading more and adding my twopence worth in due course.

Kindest regards

101

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Al Duff ()
Date: February 07, 2025 06:32AM

My Struthers Experience [from Liz Duff]

Sorry this is so long but I’ve been reading all these posts for the past few weeks.

I was proud of my husband for using his own name here and have enjoyed seeing some others now reveal their identities. I understand why most don’t.

My experience of Struthers was of finding a deep spiritual experience there. That, I can never deny. That and the incredible singing that I have never found anywhere else.
But it was my belief that this could only be achieved by living a very extreme lifestyle with some decidedly odd behaviours. So that is what we did through all the best years of our lives. This cost me dearly in my professional life, in which God clearly placed me, not to mention my relationship with my sisters.

In later years, my husband mentioned to one of the Radical Alternative group that he wondered why they were marrying when our generation generally hadn’t. She said perfectly seriously, ‘it’s because we are more spiritual than you all were’ !!!

If a woman was beautiful, in our day, she was encouraged to read Madam Guyon, who lost her beauty to small pox. If a man was able, he most definitely was not spiritual. A man, anyway, was not as spiritual as a woman. Such were the teachings.

Make-up of course was banned, so for 10 years I didn’t wear the very small amount I’d until joining worn. Looking nice was frowned upon so that even my very unfashionable and unmaterialistic mother told me she was ashamed of how I looked when I stood up to give testimony one night. She made me throw the dowdy clothes I’d worn into the bin.

"Death to self" was the phrase we lived by. One example of my own: our choir leader asked me to sing solo (to lead the choir into the song) one Saturday night. I’d had a panic assault doing it the previous week at camp so he said I’d best go right back on to overcome that fear. We stood up to sing, opened our folders to the page and were told we’d be singing something different that night. The church leader had obviously decided I shouldn’t do it. If only she’d told me, I’d have accepted it, rather than her revealing it thus -but to challenge that would have been seen as "pride", so I had to "die to self" and accept it, which of course I did. But throughout my career I vowed never to treat my staff this way.

That is how issues were handled. No explanation. To question showed a pride equivalent to the worst sin and had to be dealt with, sometimes by direct preaching from the platform.

All I did from graduating and starting my first job, for many years , was spend all my money on taking people to and from church. I had no savings whatsoever. I was stuck in the bleakness of bedsitland while my professional colleagues were becoming engaged, married, having babies and moving up the property ladder.

To have a relationship with someone necessitated a clandestine approach. Though Miss Taylor had blessed ours, I didn’t tell any of my friends at all until we were engaged! How bizarre!

People presumed my husband had taken me away from the church. This was far from the truth. He kept me in it!

Particularly, once I had two sons, I did not like how men were treated. I’d already observed two nephews, now grown men of responsibility and kind natures, banned or challenged so clumsily as teenagers.

Sadly, Mary did not understand young men, or men period.

They were present when Mr Black grossly preached through the Millennium bells, indicating he’d no intention of stopping. I heard all the fireworks and horns outside and wondered at the teenagers sitting so meekly there as well as how my sons and my unborn baby would/ should deal with this kind of nonsense.

Then there was Miss Black’s advice when I was considering moving a bit away from the church: "couldn’t your husband go part-time and you full-time so you could stay in the area?"He had just set out on an a well-prepared academic pathway (following years of wrong moves as he tried to put church attendance first, instead of e.g. pursuing his Phd) and was feeling the huge responsibility of supporting a wife and family. We already had three children under 4 at this point, and me a huge commute and a very demanding part-time job.

So why did I eventually leave?
Probably burnout but mostly to do with odd behaviours observed and thrown at me. Ironically it was Alison Speirs to whom I wrote, asking if I could be spared taking a particular meeting for a time (the Friday night prayer meeting which I took after a day of getting three kids to nurseries and school , full day of demanding job then huge commute, back home and back 16 miles to church). Her reply letter was so severe and serious, she wrote. "I don’t understand how, after all these years, we could have come to this pass". I looked at the letter and thought "Good, I won’t be back".

I shut the door -sadly on many people I loved & still do. I shut the door and walked out. I have never regretted it.

Having detailed all of that. I will say it is not my intention to criticise the current people who have been left to pick up the pieces in Struthers and are trying so hard. I wish them God‘s blessing in it.

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