Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: A Theist 101 ()
Date: January 28, 2025 10:24PM

A wonderfully composed letter which oozes humility and respect while daring to challenge the status quo and invite a way forward. Couldn't agree more Phoebe 2 this letter has opportunity written all over it. As I have previously outlined, I was a faithful member for a few years and am now no longer a believer however I would value the changes outlined by Alan above and do genuinely wish the church the very best in moving forward with looking at these matters.

101

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: ThePetitor ()
Date: January 29, 2025 03:10AM

Like others, I note the respectful tone of the letter and see this as an opportunity for Struthers to move forward. It is really sad that it has come to this, as these issues could all have been dealt with when they were first mentioned, but the leadership just carry on blindly pretending that they can ignore how the world works and how God works. How is that working out for them? I have no doubt that, if they fail this test, God will bring something even more difficult and tragic into their lives.

Only one thing I would add at this point, and that is that the leaders may be thinking that contributors to this forum will all be sitting rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of internal conflict or more troubles for the church.

I do not think that is the case. My reaction is simply sadness that the leaders are so wilfully blind. I genuinely hope this provides an opportunity for the leaders to open their eyes and see what others can see: that the way forward is not to pretend it is the author’s fault (whoever it is) for being blind, stupid or evil, but to look at the actual points raised.

Many of you will I am sure have come across this, it is called the “ad hominem” fallacy, which is where “arguments are directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining” (Oxford Online Dictionary). This has so often been the Struthers response – not even trying to consider the arguments but instead trying to discredit the person. I really hope that do not try to respond in that way this time around.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: ThePetitor ()
Date: January 29, 2025 03:12AM

On another note, Blacksheep, you mentioned two older guys from Falkirk who were very active for a while. One (who may be the very gifted house group leader mentioned by Al Duff) went to Canada to decompress after his Struthers experience, which included setting up a Glasgow university group then being told that God had appointed someone else – a female funnily enough – to take it over.

The other also had to flee from central Scotland to escape from the pressure, but therein lies a tale as they say. As is often the case, the problem arose when this person (and another friend) had questions. Going to the leaders with questions inevitably led to more issues and a breakdown in relationships. What happened next is however very instructive, as Mr Black informed this person that Jennifer Jack was getting very upset at all the questions and he needed to protect her, so he was going to stop her talking to him. This conversation was witnessed and was also spoken about with a few other people at the time, all before the subsequent developments mentioned below.

This abandonment by his pastor caused serious turmoil that led to being unable to work, unable to trust anyone and very nearly to suicide.

I suspect it also did Jennifer Jack no good at all as she was sheltered from the kinds of questions these two young people had and was effectively not allowed to grow and develop. From all that people say, she has not grown one inch since that day.

The next bit is very instructive however. As has been said, Mr Black’s decision and his reasons were very clear and were shared with a number of people. What then came to light a number of years later was that Mr Black implemented this decision in his own way, praying with Jennifer Jack that “band of iron” would descend so that she would not be affected by this person (a person she was the pastor of remember!)

So what we have here is a human decision, made not for the benefit of the individual but for the benefit of a leader who was to weak and inexperienced to deal with questions. It was however conveyed to Jennifer Jack as a spiritual experience that came from God. Whether there was some sort of spiritual experience is hard to say, but what is beyond doubt is the Mr Black made it very clear that it was his decision and based on his desire to protect a leader at the expense of one of her (very loyal!) parishioners.

If this was Mr Black effectively inventing a spiritual experience to achieve human ends, it opens up some very serious questions indeed. It would also explain the total lack of growth, as Jennifer Jack would be basing her pursuit of growth on something that was essentially false.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lintar123 ()
Date: January 29, 2025 05:44AM

Petitor . You have explained everything clearly .

The open letter submitted by Alan Martin is au point .


Will they reply ?
Or will he be accused as being " demonic " ?

I sincerely hope not . Many questions and more for them to answer .

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: RedRoad ()
Date: January 29, 2025 06:42AM

Thank you FriendlyFace for your trust-worthiness and honest brokering. Well done to you and your contacts for taking such an initiative.
And thank you Alan Martin for writing such a thought out, measured and respectful letter. (wow - can't believe you're still about - I remember you as kid ... Chelmsford n'est pa?)
Here's a different way of looking at it - bit of sideways idea coming....

For any of you who have had the fun of studying business or management theory, or have worked in a growing small business started by a dynamic personality, you may recognise that some of what Alan Martin is asking reflects what would be the normal change process of a growing Owner-Managed business. One where the Owner recognises that for sustainable growth to occur, systems and processes need to be established, procedures need documented, people matters need thought thro, succession planning or sale of the business may be needed as a retirement exit strategy.

I went on the web to remind myself of what the theory of owner-managed growth is and quickly found this as one explanation of process: (there will be many such explanations of the growth cycle available)
Quote

Building a Scalable Team: From Solo Act to Orchestra
For many owner-managed businesses, the transition from a one-person show to a fully-fledged team is a critical juncture. Building a scalable team isn’t just about hiring more people; it’s about creating a structure that can grow and adapt with your business. This involves several key elements:

*Clearly defined roles and responsibilities
*Documented processes and procedures
*A strong company culture that can withstand growth
*Effective delegation and empowerment of team members

Investing in your team’s development and fostering a culture of continuous learning can help ensure that your human resources scale alongside your business operations.

Quote

The Road Ahead: Balancing Ambition and Sustainability
The path to scalable growth is rarely straight or smooth. It requires a delicate balance between ambition and sustainability, between seizing opportunities and managing risks. As an owner-manager, your personal vision and drive are at the heart of your business’s growth journey. However, true scalability often requires a willingness to step back and let your creation take on a life of its own.[ballardsllp.com]

This is probably what SMC needed to start after the watershed year of 1987, but instead, it continued on with nepotistic leadership, untrained and unskilled in safe organisational growth and people development, power retained at its self-appointed centre, no questions by membership allowed, direction and methods not to be challenged. Control and emotional abuse of people the natural consequence of unmitigated power held by the unaccountable few.

The last 12-18 months may the outward sign of the organisation finally growing up. Keep going .... Divestment of power and introduction of organised processes is supposed to be the normal progression of a new thing! (New was 1952 or 1955 or whenever, this is now 2025!!!!)

Personally, I've always wanted SMC to be wound up - so much damage has come to so many people from its leadership. I never thought I would see the day an offical letter such as Alan Martin's would be published. (could do with some emojis here)

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: GirlWiston ()
Date: January 30, 2025 06:32PM

Greetings to all, old & new,

Hi @A Theist 101 – welcome to the forum and hope you are finding that here you are among all
types of people who have left SMC – some have kept their faith and others not – or perhaps in a
very different way – the important thing is that no-one is judging anyone as everyone’s
experience is unique to them and merits only respect and understanding from this community.

We will each find help from someone and not necessarily from the same person as our
situations are multi-factorial with firstly family influence, then depends on how “deep” we were into the SMC movement and also outside influences like work (school when we were younger).

I have not written on the forum since several years. I found it great to find this forum and wrote for a while and was happy to meet you all, however it had a double-effect in that it brought
everything back yet again and was not particularly good for my mental health to continue – my family actually asked me to stop as they preferred that I enjoy my life as it is today as it took many years to get SMC out of me.

Recently I kind of “fell” on the forum again and was interested to read some posts from Jock
who was often at our house for lunch after building work with my Dad and I remember his very
happy personality with fondness. It also seems from reading that there has been yet another
“watershed” in SMC with several long-serving members leaving and probably there are very few
people left in SMC whom I would know. I was very interested to see that one of the open letters
is written from Pauline Anderson – she with her twin sister were “in with the bricks” when I was
in SMC and especially friends with what I understand is now the current leadership – so I was a little surprised. I do not know Alan Martin – only an Owen Martin & his family from the Bridge-of-Weir branch.

I really appreciate also the posts from RedRoad who is spot on with their analysis of the roll-out of certain periods in SMC. In the light of one of their posts I would like to clarify one point and in doing so I will probably reveal who I am to some of you but at this point in my life I don’t mind as I have nothing to hide but more than perfectly understand why it is impossible for others to reveal who they are as it is complex.

My parents gave themselves tirelessly for SMC with a pure heart and because they loved God.
They built, repaired & renovated several of the church buildings and cooked for over a hundred
people at church camp 3 x day for a week for several years. (interestingly I recently found out that even although my mum cooked for all these people in her holidays, the family did not eat free with the church – I evidently had to cook for my family in parallel in the caravan as we couldn’t afford the church meals at camp – so very sad for me to find this out all these years
later – imagine the family logistics involved as we were children).

They took in visitors from England most weekends willingly at their own expense (even although
they often didn’t have enough money to buy new clothes for their own kids). My mum cleaned
the Greenock church every Saturday after Mrs Steen was too old to do it. This is a big church as you know and no mean feat. Basically, they were hands on and practical Christians (not wee
“holy willys”). ALL OF THIS THEY DID WILLINGLY so this is not a complaint – just facts.

What I do find incredibly sad after all this (devotion) is that one day when they crossed a leader in the town who was with another very kind person – the kind person was chatting to my parents while the leader just stood beside them NOT EVEN HAVING THE CURTESY OF SAYING HELLO –
not even showing basic social skills, kindness – never mind a very unchristian-like attitude –
cannot get my head around that one at all and never will understand such a mentality.

Yes my Dad took early retirement and went on to train as a Baptist Minister – he had been a lay
preacher all of his adult life so it was a natural next step. He spent hours preparing his sermons and I witness many people who benefitted from his ministry. BUT for me the most impact he
had (and that anyone can have) was his KINDNESS, RESPECT and UNDERSTANDING manner of dealing with people without judgement. He truly served God, he truly CARED FOR PEOPLE – visited them in their homes, hospitals etc. (he also did this when he was in SMC btw) and after all the theology, bible verses and all the other fancy stuff, what remains is how he affected people around him by basic Kindness, Respect and Caring. As I get older I realize that just in normal daily life these three qualities are highly under-estimated and if practiced would make the world a better place. For me basic Kindness is true Christianity.

Just for the record: I was born into SMC, raised to go to church almost every day of the week, at
the tender age of 10 or 11 told that I was “set apart a chosen vessel to the King of Kings, set apart forever severed from all earthly things” by Miss Taylor (she wrote a poem to me) – at the age of about 14 or 15 was integrated into a group of
about 6 people who were “chosen by God” (again by Miss Taylor) and so I had such a pressure to
perform and I just couldn’t live up to that standard (or restriction however you look at it). It made you feel important (which I was absolutely not) – it pandered to your pride …. And I had normal adolescent feelings and I liked pretty things - not being a frump - and wondered where the God-chosen husband would come from – I was SO naïve and SO vulnerable. I had no real childhood. I totally believe to this day that God saved me from that situation. It is so clear now looking back.

I am aware that I am revealing very personal and intimate things here today but it is the right
time to do it and I hope it can help someone. If it does it’s worth it. As you can see I was in it “up to the hilt” – not a holiday membership.

I was recently in a situation where, 36 years after leaving SMC, I met several members at an
event and I was surprised at how happy I was to see them and was very touched that they made
the effort to come to this event. It was mainly the original SMC “oldies” whom I hadn’t seen
since childhood and most of them have left SMC since a long time, but there were also some
who are still in SMC and this meant a lot to me, as so unusual for them to go outwith the SMC
into the “danger zone”. We didn’t get a chance to talk much but I did sense I deep brokenness
and sadness in some.

Ok, so this is quite a long post, but after quite a long time, and I am so grateful that in November 1989 I had something like a “divine intuition” that this would be my last night in SMC. I remember the hat I was wearing that night, I remember distinctly how I felt that night and it WAS my last night – never been back and never had a moment where I missed it. Honestly never even THINK about SMC these days (except for just now in this forum posting). So happy to have been
“saved” from that toxic environment and have forged and re-constructed a happy life, free from
the man-made restrictions imposed and now equipped to deal with what life brings me in a
responsible and accountable way.

Each story is different, each person is different, each situation is different and often complex but if you take anything away from the above: please let it be “be kind and compassionate” that’s all.

Cheers to you all and really hope that everyone finds their way in their own time – it does take
time but you will find the strength to do it.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Phoebe 2 ()
Date: January 31, 2025 12:41AM

GirlWiston - just to say I have been deeply touched by your most recent post, although grieved beyond words by the way your wonderful parents were treated. It's wonderful in the light of all you have shared that you aren't bitter or vengeful but have such a mature and gracious attitude. Recently in my home church we have been looking at the Fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5 (don't remember ever hearing a sermon on that subject in SMC) and have been struck & challenged by the need in my own life to further develop all those lovely qualities - kindness, gentleness, patience and so on - in fact our pastor said if these qualities were absent in the life of a Christian he would have very serious doubts about whether or not their profession of faith was valid!

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: ThePetitor ()
Date: January 31, 2025 05:29PM

Redroad,

I was very interested in your post about building a business or a team. There is lots of good advice out there if people want to find it. It reminds me of an old Bill Gates line, “I employ people because they can do things I cannot”. That sort of humility and an understanding that others have experience and insight to offer can go a long way.

The recent developments remind me of a story I am sure most of you will have heard. This version is from Wikipedia, but there are lots of variations around.

Quote
Story about God helping a man who is drowning
A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.
"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

I think this is exactly what is happening with Struthers. I think the leaders will get to the gates of heaven and ask God why He did not save him, and He will say, “What more could I have done?” I sent people that showed you how to be a good pastor (see recent and older posts here that mention at least a dozen well respected leaders from Struthers); I sent people who explained to you that the schools were failing financially (ten years before you noticed); I led people to share very personal and painful experiences (so that you could see the kind of fruit you were bearing). I even sent that annoying guy who kept quoting Matthew v23 and 24 (Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.) I have also sent people to explain proper Biblical governance and to show clear examples of when you have been wrong to prove that you are not infallible.

What more could I have done?

Leaders - you need to get over your stupid and unbiblical obsession with going it alone and reach out for help. If you do, you might be amazed at how willing people are to offer support and discover that those you thought were the enemy were actually honest people with valuable experience and insight.

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Mulberry ()
Date: January 31, 2025 11:05PM

Sorry? An "open letter" from Pauline Anderson? If anyone embodied the SMC "holier than thou" attitude it was her! I believe she delivered her "ministry" (and I use that term lightly) in much the same fashion as her old pal Diana Rutherford. Is Pauline going to apologise for the dismissive and judgemental manner in which she treated the youngsters at the church Camps? Is she going to apologise for telling one church member to stay away from another church member as they were not Godly enough?
Oh the hypocrisy and irony!

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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Date: February 01, 2025 05:52AM

I wonder if she changed over the years and now sees the error of the Struthers ways? I’d like to see the letter if anyone has it. Does anyone know if they’ve had a reply to their open letters? That would be very telling indeed.

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