Re: Desteni
Posted by:
concernedmom83
()
Date: May 26, 2011 10:23AM
Darryl claims the following in his rant: "MUERTOS" claims to have allegedly come across "lots of stories" about members isolating themselves from their families. I wonder how many is "lots" and why "MUERTOS" didn't back up is assertions with facts.
I feel that I am able to comment on this statement Darryl. Desteni does indeed encourage and promote it's members to detach and distant themselves from their families. I seem to remember andrea referring to parents as demons. This seems to the the norm rather than the odd statement on Yyour desteni website.
I can attest to the fact that desteni has very much isolated our family member from us. I am not the only who notices this. My immediate family 'lives' it, but friends and extended family notice the change in our member. The siblings try to support as best as they can, but they find listening to the same old thing, and nothing being done very frustrating. Friends are just about out of our members life (through own doing). I read the desteni forum and see how members are encouraged to leave all family and friend 'stuff' behind. A statement that really got me and makes me angry and sad at the same time is: 'there is no such thing as love'. How can one be 'one and equal' with another without 'love' in his or her heart? Of course I believe that this is just a ploy to get members to question their families intentions.
I'm sure that MUERTOS has come across 'lots' of stories about members isolating themselves. MEMBERS: Have you in any way isolated or pushed away your parents, siblings or friends? Why? If your sibling or friend became involved in a movement to say: 'Help the victims of the tornados' would you isolate or disown them. You members are suppose to be 'for one and equal' the equal money system, so why would desteni encourage you to isolate your family. It just doesn't make sense, does it?
So yes Darryl your 'little' group desteni has isolated it's members from their families, (something that certainly isn't mentioned on INTODUCE YOURSELF PAGE). You have been very rude, arrogant and mean to your fellow members. I don't know why they put up with it, but let me say again:
IT IS THE GOAL OF THIS FORUM TO SHOW THOSE INVOLVED IN YOUR GROUP, THE REAL TRUTH. AND WE WON'T STOP.
Sometimes the truth hurts darryl.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 10:26AM by concernedmom83.
I feel that I am able to comment on this statement Darryl. Desteni does indeed encourage and promote it's members to detach and distant themselves from their families. I seem to remember andrea referring to parents as demons. This seems to the the norm rather than the odd statement on Yyour desteni website.
I can attest to the fact that desteni has very much isolated our family member from us. I am not the only who notices this. My immediate family 'lives' it, but friends and extended family notice the change in our member. The siblings try to support as best as they can, but they find listening to the same old thing, and nothing being done very frustrating. Friends are just about out of our members life (through own doing). I read the desteni forum and see how members are encouraged to leave all family and friend 'stuff' behind. A statement that really got me and makes me angry and sad at the same time is: 'there is no such thing as love'. How can one be 'one and equal' with another without 'love' in his or her heart? Of course I believe that this is just a ploy to get members to question their families intentions.
I'm sure that MUERTOS has come across 'lots' of stories about members isolating themselves. MEMBERS: Have you in any way isolated or pushed away your parents, siblings or friends? Why? If your sibling or friend became involved in a movement to say: 'Help the victims of the tornados' would you isolate or disown them. You members are suppose to be 'for one and equal' the equal money system, so why would desteni encourage you to isolate your family. It just doesn't make sense, does it?
So yes Darryl your 'little' group desteni has isolated it's members from their families, (something that certainly isn't mentioned on INTODUCE YOURSELF PAGE). You have been very rude, arrogant and mean to your fellow members. I don't know why they put up with it, but let me say again:
IT IS THE GOAL OF THIS FORUM TO SHOW THOSE INVOLVED IN YOUR GROUP, THE REAL TRUTH. AND WE WON'T STOP.
Sometimes the truth hurts darryl.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 10:26AM by concernedmom83.
Desteni pyramid scheme, Desteni I Process, equal money cult
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: May 27, 2011 07:28AM
Here we go again. Viktor of Desteni has posted
Difference Between a Pyramid Scheme and Desteni I Process
http://desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=300&t=21539
and offers just this brief quote from European law:
"14. Establishing, operating or promoting a pyramid promotional scheme where a consumer gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from the introduction of other consumers into the scheme rather than from the sale or consumption of products."
Viktor writes:
"See – in the Desteni I Process we have a product, which is education – and in order to make an income from the Desteni I Process, you must consume and sell this product. Thus – the compensation isn’t derived solely from the introduction of other consumers – but through the LEGAL action of selling and buying a product.
A pyramid scheme on the other hand has no product of inherent value. It’s only based upon the transition of money – wherein there is all the time a need for new people to join the scheme, in order to cover up the expected profits of those already in the scheme."
Compensation in Desteni I Process IS derived solely from introduction of others. As I already said, it is not selling a product or a service. 'Desteni I Process' has no "inherent value" as a product or service. It is not recognized by any state or legal body as "education". The very fact that in order to make money from it, as Viktor admits, you must take part in the scheme -- is another reason why it is a pyramid scheme.
Viktor writes:
"It’s no different than the supermarket you each day go shopping at – you give the supermarket money and you get food in return. The supermarket mustn’t increase its customer base in order to survive; as it has food that it sells which will sustain it’s business -- very simple."
Food products are actual, physical items sold in direct exchange for money. When you buy from the supermarket it is not on the basis that you must encourage others to buy. You just choose, pay for the goods and leave.
As it says in Wikipedia:
"A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment, services or ideals, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme or training them to take part, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public."
Desteni I Process is promising payment, services or ideals in the form of "training", not a "product".
Viktor calls the Desteni I Process Multi-Level Marketing, but pyramid schemes are a form of MLM, and MLM is in any case legally dubious.
[www.fraudsandscams.com] ...
"A Pyramid Scheme is a multi-level marketing (MLM) program that cannot support itself because earning money, and/or advancing within the system depends on recruiting other people into the operation, rather than selling a product or providing a service."
Difference Between a Pyramid Scheme and Desteni I Process
http://desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=300&t=21539
and offers just this brief quote from European law:
"14. Establishing, operating or promoting a pyramid promotional scheme where a consumer gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from the introduction of other consumers into the scheme rather than from the sale or consumption of products."
Viktor writes:
"See – in the Desteni I Process we have a product, which is education – and in order to make an income from the Desteni I Process, you must consume and sell this product. Thus – the compensation isn’t derived solely from the introduction of other consumers – but through the LEGAL action of selling and buying a product.
A pyramid scheme on the other hand has no product of inherent value. It’s only based upon the transition of money – wherein there is all the time a need for new people to join the scheme, in order to cover up the expected profits of those already in the scheme."
Compensation in Desteni I Process IS derived solely from introduction of others. As I already said, it is not selling a product or a service. 'Desteni I Process' has no "inherent value" as a product or service. It is not recognized by any state or legal body as "education". The very fact that in order to make money from it, as Viktor admits, you must take part in the scheme -- is another reason why it is a pyramid scheme.
Viktor writes:
"It’s no different than the supermarket you each day go shopping at – you give the supermarket money and you get food in return. The supermarket mustn’t increase its customer base in order to survive; as it has food that it sells which will sustain it’s business -- very simple."
Food products are actual, physical items sold in direct exchange for money. When you buy from the supermarket it is not on the basis that you must encourage others to buy. You just choose, pay for the goods and leave.
As it says in Wikipedia:
"A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment, services or ideals, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme or training them to take part, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public."
Desteni I Process is promising payment, services or ideals in the form of "training", not a "product".
Viktor calls the Desteni I Process Multi-Level Marketing, but pyramid schemes are a form of MLM, and MLM is in any case legally dubious.
[www.fraudsandscams.com] ...
"A Pyramid Scheme is a multi-level marketing (MLM) program that cannot support itself because earning money, and/or advancing within the system depends on recruiting other people into the operation, rather than selling a product or providing a service."
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
ThomDarc
()
Date: May 28, 2011 04:54AM
Not to derail the conversation here about what is and what is not a pyramid scheme, but I want to briefly address something that I've noticed time and time again.
People who support Desteni (Members, Recruiters, Fence Sitters, etc.) seem to be unable to link actions with words. In one instance, some who advocate the Desteni material get very defensive when told that they are in Desteni or in someway a piece of it. They seem to be under the illusion that their words sets them apart from their actions. In reality, their actions make their words meaningless. If this person is participating in the Desteni Process, by their very actions they have become a part of Desteni. Also this is further enhanced through maintaining a channel which provides links and referrals to the Desteni website.
Furthermore, Darryl states:
In this case the message is irrelevant if not backed up in action. Poolman and the rest of Desteni simply don't practice what they preach. And whenever this point is highlighted to their attention, they use deflection to hide their faults. Therefore, when one says to them "Look at how you are being unequal or look at how guys are acting like a cult," the defense usually follows the following pattern: "The world does the same thing!, The money system is a cult, or we are only doing what is best for all!" As a result they are stating that they are simply copying the actions of the very things they preach against.
The only meaningful thing found in Desteni's message is that "You haven't read enough of the material or you haven't watched enough of the videos." Therefore, when someone doesn't understand something that person simply hasn't received enough of the repetitive cult indoctrination material. Desteni's message simply doesn't align with their actions. They seem to be under the illusion that self-work is enough to change the world around them regardless of what exists in reality. They tell themselves they are becoming more self effective and self directive. However their is no good evidence that Desteni has made these people much better from their previous lives. Some may have used the Desteni tools to escape from addictions or mental problems, but have only entangled themselves in something as bad or worse. Also, such problems could have been addressed through other groups and treatments. They subvert their anxieties of being unable to live in their dream world through holding onto the hope of the coming EMS (Desteni's Savior). Separation from reality is one of the main driving forces in Desteni. In fact through Desteni's thought stopping tools it has simply allowed them to crush doubt and worry to further withdraw into delusion. They use Self-Honesty as self deception in order to excuse their behavior. Thus best for all has allowed them to excuse such things online bullying, spamming, pyramid schemes, harassment, and perjury. Their forms of abuse are given excuse and dressed in a manner which continues such abuse. All these things stand as direct evidence to how they are not doing anything but reinforcing their own hypocrisy. And if given enough power, Desteni would only continue to slide into worse abuse while excusing the behavior as best for all. Therefore in direct response to Darryl's statement, when people who oppose Desteni, focus on Bernard Poolman they are in fact focusing on how their message actually manifests in action in the real world.
People who support Desteni (Members, Recruiters, Fence Sitters, etc.) seem to be unable to link actions with words. In one instance, some who advocate the Desteni material get very defensive when told that they are in Desteni or in someway a piece of it. They seem to be under the illusion that their words sets them apart from their actions. In reality, their actions make their words meaningless. If this person is participating in the Desteni Process, by their very actions they have become a part of Desteni. Also this is further enhanced through maintaining a channel which provides links and referrals to the Desteni website.
Furthermore, Darryl states:
Quote
From your typical Christian bible-thumper to your run-of-the-mill lightweenie to the meta-conspiracy theorist, you will notice a very interesting pattern: when analyzing something they don't agree with, ALWAYS focus on the messenger, whether it's Jesus, Abraham or Alex Jones, or (gasp!) Bernard Poolman. Don't objectively analyze the message.
In this case the message is irrelevant if not backed up in action. Poolman and the rest of Desteni simply don't practice what they preach. And whenever this point is highlighted to their attention, they use deflection to hide their faults. Therefore, when one says to them "Look at how you are being unequal or look at how guys are acting like a cult," the defense usually follows the following pattern: "The world does the same thing!, The money system is a cult, or we are only doing what is best for all!" As a result they are stating that they are simply copying the actions of the very things they preach against.
Quote
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you ~ Friedrich Nietzsche in Beyond Good and Evil
The only meaningful thing found in Desteni's message is that "You haven't read enough of the material or you haven't watched enough of the videos." Therefore, when someone doesn't understand something that person simply hasn't received enough of the repetitive cult indoctrination material. Desteni's message simply doesn't align with their actions. They seem to be under the illusion that self-work is enough to change the world around them regardless of what exists in reality. They tell themselves they are becoming more self effective and self directive. However their is no good evidence that Desteni has made these people much better from their previous lives. Some may have used the Desteni tools to escape from addictions or mental problems, but have only entangled themselves in something as bad or worse. Also, such problems could have been addressed through other groups and treatments. They subvert their anxieties of being unable to live in their dream world through holding onto the hope of the coming EMS (Desteni's Savior). Separation from reality is one of the main driving forces in Desteni. In fact through Desteni's thought stopping tools it has simply allowed them to crush doubt and worry to further withdraw into delusion. They use Self-Honesty as self deception in order to excuse their behavior. Thus best for all has allowed them to excuse such things online bullying, spamming, pyramid schemes, harassment, and perjury. Their forms of abuse are given excuse and dressed in a manner which continues such abuse. All these things stand as direct evidence to how they are not doing anything but reinforcing their own hypocrisy. And if given enough power, Desteni would only continue to slide into worse abuse while excusing the behavior as best for all. Therefore in direct response to Darryl's statement, when people who oppose Desteni, focus on Bernard Poolman they are in fact focusing on how their message actually manifests in action in the real world.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: May 28, 2011 03:28PM
The Desteni 'message' is a product of the imaginings of Bernard of some perfect world where everything is tailored to his needs and wants--anyone who disagrees with him or displeases him in any way is summarily dispatched, considered unworthy of continued life.
This isn't a 'message'-- its the rage of a child-like adult who has not come to terms with a world that does not immediately do his bidding.
Bernard has set up Desteni, as a mirror image of the rage and confusion inside his own head, to try to get what he wants from the world by hook or by crook--no matter who he damages in the process.
Desteni is a reflection of Bernard's own personality which, now that he is aging and feeling his own mortality, he is determined to clone endlessly in as many young people as he can --that makes it a personality cult.
So there is a reason to focus on Bernard and not the 'message', there is no Desteni message other than Bernard.
The whole set-up is designed to benefit only Bernard and feed his ego needs. Desteni members won't benefit in any way--they lose their individuality as well as their cash and critical faculties in order to slavishly serve the needs of Bernard.
Take Bernard out of the picture and what is left? A lot of nonsense dreams borrowed from other cult set-ups, a bunch of courses that are so garbled and vague that no-one would call them educational, an income scheme that is guaranteed to fail for everyone except the people at the very top and the wooly idea that this garbage can 'save the world.'
Has anyone asked the world if it wants and needs saving in this fashion? Last time I looked the vast majority of the world was chugging along just fine without the 'message' of Bernard.
There are problems in the world, sure--but Bernard's cult of personality and his fevered imaginings of a world dominated by his own psychotic self-interest are not the solution.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 03:34PM by Stoic.
This isn't a 'message'-- its the rage of a child-like adult who has not come to terms with a world that does not immediately do his bidding.
Bernard has set up Desteni, as a mirror image of the rage and confusion inside his own head, to try to get what he wants from the world by hook or by crook--no matter who he damages in the process.
Desteni is a reflection of Bernard's own personality which, now that he is aging and feeling his own mortality, he is determined to clone endlessly in as many young people as he can --that makes it a personality cult.
So there is a reason to focus on Bernard and not the 'message', there is no Desteni message other than Bernard.
The whole set-up is designed to benefit only Bernard and feed his ego needs. Desteni members won't benefit in any way--they lose their individuality as well as their cash and critical faculties in order to slavishly serve the needs of Bernard.
Take Bernard out of the picture and what is left? A lot of nonsense dreams borrowed from other cult set-ups, a bunch of courses that are so garbled and vague that no-one would call them educational, an income scheme that is guaranteed to fail for everyone except the people at the very top and the wooly idea that this garbage can 'save the world.'
Has anyone asked the world if it wants and needs saving in this fashion? Last time I looked the vast majority of the world was chugging along just fine without the 'message' of Bernard.
There are problems in the world, sure--but Bernard's cult of personality and his fevered imaginings of a world dominated by his own psychotic self-interest are not the solution.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 03:34PM by Stoic.
Desteni I Process, MLM, pyramid scheme, equal money cult
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: June 01, 2011 12:22AM
Whether it's called a pyramid scheme, Multi-Level Marketing or Network Marketing, it's still a scam.
Destonians: just because Poolman tells you it's all for the sake of equality doesn't mean the Desteni I Process MLM pyramid or Network Marketing scheme is not a rip-off.
Here's an informative video on the subject:
inFact: Network Marketing
Destonians: just because Poolman tells you it's all for the sake of equality doesn't mean the Desteni I Process MLM pyramid or Network Marketing scheme is not a rip-off.
Here's an informative video on the subject:
inFact: Network Marketing
Desteni I Process, pyramid scheme, MLM scam
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: June 04, 2011 05:15PM
Viktor Persson of Desteni continues to claim that the Desteni I Process (DIP) is not a pyramid scheme in a new video,
Difference Between Desteni I Process and A Pyramid Scheme
He describes the DIP in terms of it being a recruitment scheme. Recruiting is one element of a pyramid scheme.
Again he states the DIP involves selling a substantial and tangible 'educational' product and claims that is why it is a legitimate Multi-Level Marketing business. He fails to recognize that MLM is a type of pyramid scheme. It is common knowledge that ALL such financial schemes are SCAMS.
There is a whole sub-forum at the Cult Education forum dealing with
Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes
Amazingly, in his attempt at trying to justify the Desteni I Process scam as legitimate, Viktor actually goes as far as to offer the example of Herbalife as a comparable business model.
Herbalife is one of the most well-known financial scams there is. Viktor suggests that people who call the DIP a pyramid scheme are misinformed. Google 'Herbalife pyramid scheme' or 'Herbalife scam' and there are 1000s of entries referring to Herbalife as a pyramid scheme and financial scam.
For example this article: Herbalife Scam - The Need To Know Truth About Herbalife
And at the Pyramid Scheme Alert site there is an article called outlining the numerous fraudulent aspects of Herbalife...
Herbalife Charged with Fraud
A Study of Ten Major MLMs shows that
"virtually all MLM participants never earn a profit and that MLM claims of a broad-based MLM "income opportunity" are false"
Herbalife products may be useless but they are actual physical products. The Desteni I Process offers no physical product whatsoever. By saying it's MLM and offering Herbalife as an example Viktor Persson has practically admitted that the Desteni I Process is a pyramid scheme.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2011 05:18PM by Sandman.
Difference Between Desteni I Process and A Pyramid Scheme
He describes the DIP in terms of it being a recruitment scheme. Recruiting is one element of a pyramid scheme.
Again he states the DIP involves selling a substantial and tangible 'educational' product and claims that is why it is a legitimate Multi-Level Marketing business. He fails to recognize that MLM is a type of pyramid scheme. It is common knowledge that ALL such financial schemes are SCAMS.
There is a whole sub-forum at the Cult Education forum dealing with
Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes
Amazingly, in his attempt at trying to justify the Desteni I Process scam as legitimate, Viktor actually goes as far as to offer the example of Herbalife as a comparable business model.
Herbalife is one of the most well-known financial scams there is. Viktor suggests that people who call the DIP a pyramid scheme are misinformed. Google 'Herbalife pyramid scheme' or 'Herbalife scam' and there are 1000s of entries referring to Herbalife as a pyramid scheme and financial scam.
For example this article: Herbalife Scam - The Need To Know Truth About Herbalife
And at the Pyramid Scheme Alert site there is an article called outlining the numerous fraudulent aspects of Herbalife...
Herbalife Charged with Fraud
A Study of Ten Major MLMs shows that
"virtually all MLM participants never earn a profit and that MLM claims of a broad-based MLM "income opportunity" are false"
Herbalife products may be useless but they are actual physical products. The Desteni I Process offers no physical product whatsoever. By saying it's MLM and offering Herbalife as an example Viktor Persson has practically admitted that the Desteni I Process is a pyramid scheme.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2011 05:18PM by Sandman.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
concernedmom83
()
Date: June 07, 2011 09:27AM
As it seems to be the norm for desteni a message seems to have gone out to get an
account on You Tube with "anti-hate" in the title and the name of the desteni member.
The reason for this is to dispute xfinksx's latest video. If desteni is the one truth for our
future, then don't they have alot of other things to do? Never mind combing the internet to see who is talking against your cult. Why the thin skin? bernard you seem to have been so rude to Valenitn during his visit from what I have read. And darryl you too, you also seem to be very rude to member of the cult you oversee with bernard as the head. People aren't always going to agree, you must know that. So why the assault on anything in opposition to
desteni.
Desteni members seems to be led as to what to write, vlog and put on You Tube. Or anywhere for that matter. bernard seems to dictate what the important topic of the day is. Often something most difficult for someone to read through, unless of course one is in desteni, in the process I guess.The fact that bernard has so much control concerns me deeply. If he had some great healthy for mind, body and soul ideas, I'd say GREAT! But he doesn't. The topics discussed are very upsetting to family members and friends reading them. One has to wonder how he got this control? I do, and I would like to know his true bio.
account on You Tube with "anti-hate" in the title and the name of the desteni member.
The reason for this is to dispute xfinksx's latest video. If desteni is the one truth for our
future, then don't they have alot of other things to do? Never mind combing the internet to see who is talking against your cult. Why the thin skin? bernard you seem to have been so rude to Valenitn during his visit from what I have read. And darryl you too, you also seem to be very rude to member of the cult you oversee with bernard as the head. People aren't always going to agree, you must know that. So why the assault on anything in opposition to
desteni.
Desteni members seems to be led as to what to write, vlog and put on You Tube. Or anywhere for that matter. bernard seems to dictate what the important topic of the day is. Often something most difficult for someone to read through, unless of course one is in desteni, in the process I guess.The fact that bernard has so much control concerns me deeply. If he had some great healthy for mind, body and soul ideas, I'd say GREAT! But he doesn't. The topics discussed are very upsetting to family members and friends reading them. One has to wonder how he got this control? I do, and I would like to know his true bio.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
concernedmom83
()
Date: June 07, 2011 10:14AM
I had to come back and respond to this one from Bastian Neumman: This is a response from Bastian to Thom. I have responded in caps.
" - The next point is fascinating: You say that you 'think' or 'it seems' that 'once they have you in' 'it seems very hard for you to get out'
IT IS, I AM LIVING A LIFE OF A PARENT OF A DESTENI MEMBER
because you can participate in everything from home. I really don't understand that logic, I mean wouldn't it be much harder to 'get out' of a group that wants to hold you back when you are actually there, in person, maybe in a camp or something,
ONE WOULD THINK SO, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT IS WORSE!
rather than from home where you simply turn off your pc - and done? Anyhow my question would be where you get this impression from?
HOW IN THE WORLD COULD YOU ASK THAT QUESTION BASTIAN, I CAN SAY TO ALL READING THIS THAT IT IS TRUE.
Which experience are you referring to as you never have been 'in' (again) It seems that this is all made up by you because you personally fear something about Desteni, it is just fantasy of yours,
PLEASE BASTIAN, A CHILD BEING TAKEN INTO YOUR CULT IS NOTHING TO FANTISIZE ABOUT
not a single example, proof or evidence.
AGAIN BASTIAN, SORRY TO HAVE TO DISAGREE, BUT WE CAN ALL GO ONTO YOUR WEBSITE AND READ
My suggestion is to investigate your fear,
OUR FEAR IS YOUR CULT TAKING A VERY FEW PEOPLE IN, BUT NONE THE LESS IF THIS IS YOUR OWN CHILD IT IS A FEAR. A FEAR THAT A PARENT AND FAMILY MEMBERS AND FREINDS HAVE WITNESSED THE CHANGE AND BEING SHUT OUT, FOR DESTENI.
its root, how it rises, what causes it, where is the trigger point -in self honesty.
NONE OF US HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT BASTIAN, BUT WHEN WE SEE YOU DESTROYING LIVES (I SAY YOU, BUT I MEAN DESTENI AND BERNARD IN PARTICULAR) WE FEEL THE NECESSITY TO TRY TO BRING THESE MEMBERS TO THEIRS SENSES. TO LET THEM KNOW THAT LOVE IS A PERFECTLY NORMAL EMOTION TO FEEL, ACTUALLY A WORLD WITHOUT LOVE WOULDN'T BE A NICE PLACE.
And what do you mean by 'system of isolation'? Isolated from what? Society? Outside? Culture? And how does it operate, this self isolation?
I KNOW THIS ONE ALL TOO WELL. ISOLATION FROM EMOTIONS, FROM LOVED ONES. FROM THE 'WAY' THE MEMBER WAS, CHOOSING BLOG WRITING FOR DESTENI, OR STUDYING THE I PROCESS (WHICH YES INDEED COSTS QUITE ALOT OF MONEY) OVER BEING WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS. ARE YOUR PARENTS, SIBLINGS FRIENDS ON BOARD WITH DESTENI? DO YOU STILL SEE AND SOCIALIZE WITH YOUR FRIENDS?
Again, unfortunately, you have only assumptions and opinions to share that you havent cleared for yourself yet."
AGAIN, MINE ARE NOT ASSUMPTIONS OR OPINIONS. THEY ARE FACTS BASTIAN. I WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO 'CLEAR' THEM AS YOU PUT IT. BUT I LIVE THIS NIGHTMARE OF DESTENI AND WHAT IT'S DONE DAILY TO MY FAMILIY'S LIVES ON A DAILY BASIS. NOW THAT CAN'T BE GOOD FOR EVERYONE CONCERNED, WOULDN'T YOU SAY?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2011 10:23AM by concernedmom83.
" - The next point is fascinating: You say that you 'think' or 'it seems' that 'once they have you in' 'it seems very hard for you to get out'
IT IS, I AM LIVING A LIFE OF A PARENT OF A DESTENI MEMBER
because you can participate in everything from home. I really don't understand that logic, I mean wouldn't it be much harder to 'get out' of a group that wants to hold you back when you are actually there, in person, maybe in a camp or something,
ONE WOULD THINK SO, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT IS WORSE!
rather than from home where you simply turn off your pc - and done? Anyhow my question would be where you get this impression from?
HOW IN THE WORLD COULD YOU ASK THAT QUESTION BASTIAN, I CAN SAY TO ALL READING THIS THAT IT IS TRUE.
Which experience are you referring to as you never have been 'in' (again) It seems that this is all made up by you because you personally fear something about Desteni, it is just fantasy of yours,
PLEASE BASTIAN, A CHILD BEING TAKEN INTO YOUR CULT IS NOTHING TO FANTISIZE ABOUT
not a single example, proof or evidence.
AGAIN BASTIAN, SORRY TO HAVE TO DISAGREE, BUT WE CAN ALL GO ONTO YOUR WEBSITE AND READ
My suggestion is to investigate your fear,
OUR FEAR IS YOUR CULT TAKING A VERY FEW PEOPLE IN, BUT NONE THE LESS IF THIS IS YOUR OWN CHILD IT IS A FEAR. A FEAR THAT A PARENT AND FAMILY MEMBERS AND FREINDS HAVE WITNESSED THE CHANGE AND BEING SHUT OUT, FOR DESTENI.
its root, how it rises, what causes it, where is the trigger point -in self honesty.
NONE OF US HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT BASTIAN, BUT WHEN WE SEE YOU DESTROYING LIVES (I SAY YOU, BUT I MEAN DESTENI AND BERNARD IN PARTICULAR) WE FEEL THE NECESSITY TO TRY TO BRING THESE MEMBERS TO THEIRS SENSES. TO LET THEM KNOW THAT LOVE IS A PERFECTLY NORMAL EMOTION TO FEEL, ACTUALLY A WORLD WITHOUT LOVE WOULDN'T BE A NICE PLACE.
And what do you mean by 'system of isolation'? Isolated from what? Society? Outside? Culture? And how does it operate, this self isolation?
I KNOW THIS ONE ALL TOO WELL. ISOLATION FROM EMOTIONS, FROM LOVED ONES. FROM THE 'WAY' THE MEMBER WAS, CHOOSING BLOG WRITING FOR DESTENI, OR STUDYING THE I PROCESS (WHICH YES INDEED COSTS QUITE ALOT OF MONEY) OVER BEING WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS. ARE YOUR PARENTS, SIBLINGS FRIENDS ON BOARD WITH DESTENI? DO YOU STILL SEE AND SOCIALIZE WITH YOUR FRIENDS?
Again, unfortunately, you have only assumptions and opinions to share that you havent cleared for yourself yet."
AGAIN, MINE ARE NOT ASSUMPTIONS OR OPINIONS. THEY ARE FACTS BASTIAN. I WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO 'CLEAR' THEM AS YOU PUT IT. BUT I LIVE THIS NIGHTMARE OF DESTENI AND WHAT IT'S DONE DAILY TO MY FAMILIY'S LIVES ON A DAILY BASIS. NOW THAT CAN'T BE GOOD FOR EVERYONE CONCERNED, WOULDN'T YOU SAY?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2011 10:23AM by concernedmom83.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
concernedmom83
()
Date: June 08, 2011 10:25AM
I'm baaaack!!!!
It appears that desteni has a campaign against us "evil life haters". I'm going to do the same with part of Rozelle's writing on the subject, that I did in my previous post. I'll use caps to respond.
This is from Roselle from desteni:
I am able to say this with confidence because you have to be seriously possessed by your own self-created beliefs/ideas/perceptions about life to come to the conclusion that equality is evil
NOW WHO EVER SAID THAT AND WHERE DID YOU READ OR HEAR THAT ROZELLE. I
CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I AM JUST AS MUCH FOR EQUALITY FOR OTHERS AS YOU
AND THE OTHER DESTENI MEMBERS. I BELIEVE THAT I HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE
THAT DESTENI DOESN'T HAVE A TRADEMARK ON KINDNESS.
and to have the belief that to do onto another as you would like them to do to you is not one of the highest expressions you can live and apply within self-honesty to change the current corrupted state of this world.
AGAIN WHERE DID YOU HEAR OR READ THIS? "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD
HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" I HAVE FELT THIS WAY ALL MY LIFE AND HAVE TRIED TO
PRACTICE IT. I ASK THAT YOU DO NOT JUDGE ANYONE HERE AS FAR AS WHAT THEY
DO OR DON'T DO FOR OTHERS, BECAUSE YOU REALLY HAVE NO IDEA. AS FAR AS
THE SELF HONESTY, I FEEL THAT I TRY TO BE HONEST WITH MYSELF. I DON'T
"DOTE" OVER WHETHER OR NOT I AM SF OR CONSTANTLY QUESTIONING MYSELF AS
TO WHETHER OR NOT I AM HONEST, BUT PLEASE LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT I DO
TRY MY HARDEST. THE CORRUPTED STATE OF THE WORLD: WHAT IS DESTENI, OR
HAS SHALL I SAY, DONE TO CHANGE THE CURRENT CORRUPTED STATE OF THE
WORLD? ACTUALLY I BELIEVE FROM WHAT I'VE READ, QUITE NEAR THE FARM THERE
ARE THOSE WHO COULD USE YOUR HELP. I THINK EVERYONE HERE WOULD ADMIT
THAT OUR WORLD IS NOT PERFECT, BUT IT'S NOT ALL BAD AND NEGATIVE AS
DESTENI WOULD HAVE ONE BELIEVE. I KNOW FIRST HAND WHAT IS 'TAUGHT' TO
YOUR MEMBERS, AND IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO LIVE ONE'S LIFE. VERY UNNATURAL
IF I MAY SAY SO. SUPPRESSING ONE'S EMOTIONS AND 'PRETENDING' THAT THEY
DON'T EXIST IS NOT A GOOD THING. THERE IS SUCH A THING AS LOVE, KINDNESS,
HUMOR, SADNESS, ANXIETY, HAPPINESS, SURPRISE, ETC. AND YES FORGIVENESS.
THAT EMOTION DESTENI SEEMS TO HAVE DOWN PAT.
The very nature of a Desteni hater is deceptive and abusive and all they actually do is spew bullshit to get others to recognize and acknowledge their bullshit so that they can justify their deceptive starting points.
AGAIN, ROZELLE YOU DON'T KNOW ME, AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL ME
DECEPTIVE AND ABUSIVE. BOTH I AM NOT. SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO, ABOUT
WHAT I SAY. I AM HEAR ON RR AND ANY OTHER MEDIUM I CAN RAISE ATTENTION
TO THE FACT THAT DESTENI IS A VERY UNHEALTHY WAY OF LIFE. I SAY THAT NOT
AS ONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN CULTS, (I'M NOT, AND WASN'T UNTIL MY FAMILY
MEMBER GOT INVOLVED WITH DESTENI,) BUT BECAUSE I FEEL I HAVE TO LET
OTHERS KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT. THERE MAY BE A MOTHER, A BROTHER, A
FRIEND WHO JUST DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO REACH THEIR CULT MEMBER ANYMORE.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ONCE SOMEONE JOINS (OR PRACTICES AS I THINK YOU
MAY PREFER) DESTENI. SO NO, I AM NOT HEAR TO SPEW ____ , BUT I FEEL I HAVE
TO SPEAK OUT.
So what is the starting point of Desteni Haters? – When I place myself in the shoes of a hater of Desteni, all I see is jealousy. They are jealous and therefore they go into a point of competition to attempt to validate their abusive existence.
AND PLEASE OH PLEASE ROZELLE, DON'T FLATTER YOURSELF. NONE OF US ARE
JEALOUS OF YOU DESTENIS. WE AREN'T TRYING TO COMPETE WITH YOU. WE HAVE
MANY DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON IN OUR LIVES, FAMILIES TO TAKE CARE OF,
JOBS, GETTING TOGETHER WITH FRIENDS, ETC. IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE MANY
OTHER THINGS TO DO AND IT'S A DAMN SHAME THAT I HAVE TO COME ON THIS
COMPUTER TO DISPUTE YOU. BUT I DO ... MY CHOICE I KNOW. AND ABUSIVE
EXISTENCE? MAYBE I HAVEN'T READ ENOUGH, I GUESS NOT. BUT I ASSURE YOU,
I AM NOT ABUSIVE, AS I AM SURE THE OTHERS ON RR AREN'T EITHER.
TELL ME ROZELLE, IF ONE OF THE MEMBERS TRIED TO LEAVE DESTENI, IS IT AN
EASY PROCESS? I HAVE HEARD STORIES, (I WON'T MENTION), BUT I HOPE THEY
AREN'T TRUE.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2011 10:48AM by concernedmom83.
It appears that desteni has a campaign against us "evil life haters". I'm going to do the same with part of Rozelle's writing on the subject, that I did in my previous post. I'll use caps to respond.
This is from Roselle from desteni:
I am able to say this with confidence because you have to be seriously possessed by your own self-created beliefs/ideas/perceptions about life to come to the conclusion that equality is evil
NOW WHO EVER SAID THAT AND WHERE DID YOU READ OR HEAR THAT ROZELLE. I
CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I AM JUST AS MUCH FOR EQUALITY FOR OTHERS AS YOU
AND THE OTHER DESTENI MEMBERS. I BELIEVE THAT I HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE
THAT DESTENI DOESN'T HAVE A TRADEMARK ON KINDNESS.
and to have the belief that to do onto another as you would like them to do to you is not one of the highest expressions you can live and apply within self-honesty to change the current corrupted state of this world.
AGAIN WHERE DID YOU HEAR OR READ THIS? "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD
HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" I HAVE FELT THIS WAY ALL MY LIFE AND HAVE TRIED TO
PRACTICE IT. I ASK THAT YOU DO NOT JUDGE ANYONE HERE AS FAR AS WHAT THEY
DO OR DON'T DO FOR OTHERS, BECAUSE YOU REALLY HAVE NO IDEA. AS FAR AS
THE SELF HONESTY, I FEEL THAT I TRY TO BE HONEST WITH MYSELF. I DON'T
"DOTE" OVER WHETHER OR NOT I AM SF OR CONSTANTLY QUESTIONING MYSELF AS
TO WHETHER OR NOT I AM HONEST, BUT PLEASE LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT I DO
TRY MY HARDEST. THE CORRUPTED STATE OF THE WORLD: WHAT IS DESTENI, OR
HAS SHALL I SAY, DONE TO CHANGE THE CURRENT CORRUPTED STATE OF THE
WORLD? ACTUALLY I BELIEVE FROM WHAT I'VE READ, QUITE NEAR THE FARM THERE
ARE THOSE WHO COULD USE YOUR HELP. I THINK EVERYONE HERE WOULD ADMIT
THAT OUR WORLD IS NOT PERFECT, BUT IT'S NOT ALL BAD AND NEGATIVE AS
DESTENI WOULD HAVE ONE BELIEVE. I KNOW FIRST HAND WHAT IS 'TAUGHT' TO
YOUR MEMBERS, AND IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO LIVE ONE'S LIFE. VERY UNNATURAL
IF I MAY SAY SO. SUPPRESSING ONE'S EMOTIONS AND 'PRETENDING' THAT THEY
DON'T EXIST IS NOT A GOOD THING. THERE IS SUCH A THING AS LOVE, KINDNESS,
HUMOR, SADNESS, ANXIETY, HAPPINESS, SURPRISE, ETC. AND YES FORGIVENESS.
THAT EMOTION DESTENI SEEMS TO HAVE DOWN PAT.
The very nature of a Desteni hater is deceptive and abusive and all they actually do is spew bullshit to get others to recognize and acknowledge their bullshit so that they can justify their deceptive starting points.
AGAIN, ROZELLE YOU DON'T KNOW ME, AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL ME
DECEPTIVE AND ABUSIVE. BOTH I AM NOT. SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO, ABOUT
WHAT I SAY. I AM HEAR ON RR AND ANY OTHER MEDIUM I CAN RAISE ATTENTION
TO THE FACT THAT DESTENI IS A VERY UNHEALTHY WAY OF LIFE. I SAY THAT NOT
AS ONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN CULTS, (I'M NOT, AND WASN'T UNTIL MY FAMILY
MEMBER GOT INVOLVED WITH DESTENI,) BUT BECAUSE I FEEL I HAVE TO LET
OTHERS KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT. THERE MAY BE A MOTHER, A BROTHER, A
FRIEND WHO JUST DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO REACH THEIR CULT MEMBER ANYMORE.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ONCE SOMEONE JOINS (OR PRACTICES AS I THINK YOU
MAY PREFER) DESTENI. SO NO, I AM NOT HEAR TO SPEW ____ , BUT I FEEL I HAVE
TO SPEAK OUT.
So what is the starting point of Desteni Haters? – When I place myself in the shoes of a hater of Desteni, all I see is jealousy. They are jealous and therefore they go into a point of competition to attempt to validate their abusive existence.
AND PLEASE OH PLEASE ROZELLE, DON'T FLATTER YOURSELF. NONE OF US ARE
JEALOUS OF YOU DESTENIS. WE AREN'T TRYING TO COMPETE WITH YOU. WE HAVE
MANY DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON IN OUR LIVES, FAMILIES TO TAKE CARE OF,
JOBS, GETTING TOGETHER WITH FRIENDS, ETC. IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE MANY
OTHER THINGS TO DO AND IT'S A DAMN SHAME THAT I HAVE TO COME ON THIS
COMPUTER TO DISPUTE YOU. BUT I DO ... MY CHOICE I KNOW. AND ABUSIVE
EXISTENCE? MAYBE I HAVEN'T READ ENOUGH, I GUESS NOT. BUT I ASSURE YOU,
I AM NOT ABUSIVE, AS I AM SURE THE OTHERS ON RR AREN'T EITHER.
TELL ME ROZELLE, IF ONE OF THE MEMBERS TRIED TO LEAVE DESTENI, IS IT AN
EASY PROCESS? I HAVE HEARD STORIES, (I WON'T MENTION), BUT I HOPE THEY
AREN'T TRUE.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2011 10:48AM by concernedmom83.
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