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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 13, 2022 11:38AM

I know it is not easy having compassion for butler. But imagine the heavy trip of being a krishna’s Acharya.
The huge bs that you are made to believe and the fact that you are supposed to carry the karma of others.
Imagine if there are some beings in the unseen realm who sit and make a bet.
And AC Bhaktivedanta is like:
I bet I can create the most original script.
And honestly this is what Iskcon and SoI look like. A giant never ending drama.
Imagine making a movie out of Narayana Maharaja’s group.
People would fall asleep.
But Isckon and SoI will keep you hooked and beg for season 20.
I have played the role of abused devotee. And now I am the demon who standa against her gurudeva. Lol!
It sucks that we are not paid actors. But must work like asses and bow down 24/7 in exchange of being part of this massive shit show.
We do get the price for most original guru though.
I think the vedas have their place. But one should also look at many other material.
But as I said it before, there are no absolute truth.
We have all been thrown into a dark hole and will accept anything to feel better.
We do not want to be lost.
So we are like tourists in some poor country. And at every corner someone is trying to sell you something.
So buying ghe Krishna program is not so much worse one out there.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 13, 2022 09:53PM

There are many queations what CB believes and the whole cult.

Anyway make Krishna happy? CB quoted that gopis happines makes him more happy. Contradiction?

There is another evidence. On polish FB mantra profile they put persian quotation comparing holy sxriptures to pool in polish more like swamp - in the sense that better is meditation. Cincerelly they should write that best is free work for the cult and idols. Anyway one can think that calling holy sciptures from diferent tradition/religion is an offence. Subtle way. But still this shows recriitment motive. Control. Do not read scriptures. Meditate as we Tell ya. Beware Midgett.Beware.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 14, 2022 01:42AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have played the role of abused devotee. And now
> I am the demon who standa against her gurudeva.
> Lol!

It's not a problem. Broken sanyasa vows, disciple as the wife, no tadana / lalana, hidden son, methodical forgiveness with his "we must forgive him", "trusted adjutant" thinks that "the scriptures are a pond/swamp compared to meditation" - or they were invented by lolitas who talk about spirituality and private business is a daily mask to make the spiritual girl look beautiful although she has bulging eyes .... No stress - according to the rules we say "guru" - farewell ...No mo lies, no more ties, no more preatorians. Faith no more.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 16, 2022 09:38PM

The main and most important lesson ne must extract from it all, is the power of illusion.
How we can so easily be pulled into something so non sensical. Get so blnded we can hardly see the dysfunctions.
If you see them, you must brainwash yourself into thinkig you are offensive or a demon.
Of course noone is really interested going deep enough about the manipulation.
We are and will always only focus on butler, the scapegoat.
Imagine how hard it is to say no to the person you consider being the voice of god on earth.
Noone questions the will of god. So how can they question butler’s?
In all scriptures, “god” does pretty much what he wants.
The faithful are ready to do anything to please that being.
The guru is called Lord and master of the devotees.
There is a reason he refers to his followers as dogs.
Master is usually a dog owner or a slave owner.
You do not rebel against your master usually.
When god on earth asks you to hand over your wife, I guess you see it as an honor or blessing.
Unfortunately blind faith comes at a very high price.
And fear is the true weapon of mass destruction.
But as I said it many times, I know that the game is operated by forces much greater than butler.
And the gita gives some very good info about the mind, senses, body, false ego…
However it goes way deeper than that.
Imagine what an elaborate system this process is. It can make you truly enjoy suffering and austerities.
And it can force you to see your abuser as your well wisher.
This is not just a regular process. It is almost like a black magic spell.
NOTHING or noone has ever been able to put me under a spell before I was exposed to this path.
And let us not minimize the dangers that krishna consc has brought to the west.
A path that can push you as far as murdering another devotee.
We should never forget nor minimize the dark side of bhakti.
And yes it is very easy to put all the blame on criminal gurus.
Imagine how lightly people give their will and souls away to the first guy who sits on a high chair.
Inspired by some mystical BS and sentimentalities. We basically give away the keys to our entire being.
Would we do that with our home?
You must sit and wonder how and why humans give away their souls so easily.
And how their psyche is highjacked so quickly when it comes to religions.
The devotees are willing to do anythinb for the bliss flashes, the security, the promise to go home.
This can also happen to people who want to escape totalitarian countries.
When you are so desperate to get out, you will pay some scammer money to arrange your escape.
Everything negative is to be glorified. Suffering, abuse…
It is all paying off karma and curb the false ego.
Maybe we can call it toxic positivity or wishful thinking.
The poor SOI devotees are like crappy bakers. They make a super ugly cake but can fix it with a tone of frosting. They will always find a way to see the blessings in the torture.
Noone will know that the cakes underneath are cracked and ugly.
The same force of illusion that got them in, will keep them in.
Thankfully they still make progress. So all is not lost.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 17, 2022 04:15AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How we can so easily be pulled into something so
> non sensical. Get so blnded we can hardly see the
> dysfunctions.

The techniques used are not simple. Higher ideas, love for God, MLM, party politics, some yoga-nidra etc. The MLM specialist with his brother Eswaran recently bragged with the "Conscious Loving" specialist holding a cross-sectioned fruit between her lap, his wife, and the former dealer's son-in-law sister - a jet plane. Some say the plane actually belongs to the guru. They must know how to work a lazy job since they have a jet. And these operating costs - nowadays to pay for jet service requires money. Big money...


> If you see them, you must brainwash yourself into
> thinkig you are offensive or a demon.


Why then holy babajis like Ananta Das Goswami Babaji write about meditation and going from 99 to 99.9 to 99.99 (9) percent of japa time focusing on the pastimes of the Divine Couple. Oooops. This is what to say about sheep that for 30 years have been baring like robots, devbots and can't see anything during japa meditation. Something is wrong?

> Imagine how hard it is to say no to the person you
> consider being the voice of god on earth.

Some of them create "fan" profiles. We are "Chris Butler fans", "Balakhilya das fans". Fans? Well, you admit that these are your IDOLS.

IDOLS. Not gurus, not spiritual teachers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2022 04:17AM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 17, 2022 06:44AM

Krishna consc. was meant to save the most fallen. The issue is that the fallen became gurus instead of remaining students and disciples.
We are all polluted to some extent. I myself have always admited to being one of the patients of the butler mental hospital.
There is nothing wrong with the fact that butler is plagued with some disorders and phobias.
He is just not qualified to be a bhakti yoga guru, where these poor “humans” are supposed to be EXTRAORDINARY beings. Flawless heroes who will carry your Karma and guide you to the other side of the ocean of birth and death.
These little 12 naked emperors (butler is the 12 th) became a bit too ambitious and greedy. They wanted to play teacher and get worshipped.
Everybody in there is under a very thick spell.
I can assure you that the highest techniques of trapping and blidning souls are beyond our comprehension.
Ultimately most of them are happy. Same way a mom is happy with her baby even though she lacks sleep and must change filthy diapers all day long.
The illusion that butler is the modern jesus and that krishna is god, would give anybody wings.
Imagine how special you feel being in that secretive club.
I have been there and know the feeling.
The things we do for so called love, lust and happiness.
And we must take responsibility for the high price that comes with that need to love, be loved, be happy…
The price is too high: Liberation from reincarnating.
I mean how can people let go so easily? Can we blame them?
Devotees think they are the most spiritually advanced beings in the planet (another sweet illusion).
So why pitty them?
They know who god is. They have the modern Jesus guide them. They are more aware than all of humanity.
It is all inclusive luxury spiritual trip.
There are not many humans on earth who are qualified to be leaders these days. Maybe there are none actually.
Giving our lives and souls so freely to anybody, is spiritual suicide. Even though it all looks pretty romantic and blissful on the outside.
We can accept that some have good insights. Accpet them as imperfect teachers who hold some truth.
But to place any human on the level of a god like devotees do, is insanity in itself.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 17, 2022 02:10PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Krishna consc. was meant to save the most fallen.

Rather, the avatar of Krishna - Sri Caitanya is considered the liberator of the most fallen. Unless other views are adopted, e.g. vaishnavic views that Vishnu is the original God and Krishna is the avatar. And then someone will say that Krishna's behavior with many gopis is not entirely moral especially with a married woman, and that this concept will suit someone. Or that the original God is Rama, one wife, brother and the Monkey King. And others are expansions.

Parakiya-rasa...


> We are all polluted to some extent. I myself have
> always admited to being one of the patients of the
> butler mental hospital.

Sweet sisters of lesbian mercy with syringes infected with party aids ..

> I can assure you that the highest techniques of
> trapping and blidning souls are beyond our
> comprehension.

Sure. I have experienced better tricks...More sublte and more unevitable. Anyway, everyone is peeing every day.

> The illusion that butler is the modern jesus and
> that krishna is god, would give anybody wings.
> Imagine how special you feel being in that
> secretive club.

In Poland, among the hippies, there were many visual Jesus. Much prettier than Chris Butler.

> Devotees think they are the most spiritually
> advanced beings in the planet (another sweet
> illusion).

Advanced in what? Can they see Radha and Krishna's pastimes 99.99% of their japan time? or day? Chant 192 rounds? Or only 16? Or were they 65-year-old sanyasis, not groping their sect mates in the park?

Maybe in material knowledge ... No, it's unnecessary. Wait a minute. After all, Dhrishtadyumna masterfully organized the ranks of the Pandavas. So how is it? Did he not listen to the leaders of the sect?

> They know who god is. They have the modern Jesus
> guide them. They are more aware than all of
> humanity.

He wasn't crucified at 33, so the legend should fall. Unless he came to judge the living and the dead in glory, but also not. The money goes to the lawyers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2022 02:13PM by Culthusiast.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: May 18, 2022 10:18AM

I think we can all agree to disagree at this point that any substance we attribute to this path is largely based on some level of adherence to faith in its mechanisms. Or which I lack any and see little fruit in cultivation. I mean that, for me, with as much as I read and study and question these ideas, I have not found anything of irrefutable permanence in its expression as "absolute". I appreciate the notion of brahman and consciousness as the manifold reflection/expression of that one "truth". But fail to see the use of preaching that as a reality or fact or truth. It is either something that one comes upon naturally or not, but should not require any regular practice or method to understand. If it does, it is nothing you are ready for and enjoy the ride. There is no hurry in any of this and no way to speed things up. It is as it is and should be. The paradox of it only arises in trying to understand it and box up some method for how that is done.


To some it is krishna, to others something else. Man has played with this since the start of time. Interpreted, symbolized, systematized and dismantled over and over. If you trust there is a flow to it all then that is all the faith you will ever need. Washing butlers underwear won't speed it up. Reading all of prabhupadas books will not speed it up. Inventing in your mind some form that you serve god in some planet with cows is not what it's about. Singing and dancing is fun. But not gonna give you any special place on gods list of favorite people.


Here is a fun piece that has some truth to it.

[highexistence.com]


[www.cam.ac.uk]


If dharma is righteousness, its implications, the idea of doing the right thing, following the right path, natural order etc, will adjust/change in time as things progress and evolve. We will not find the dharma of the veda to be applicable today. We will not find that it is dharmic to be critical of sexuality, gender, race, or even to argue about the rightness of one path over another is "adharmic". Because if one had the right eyes to see, they would see that everyone is right where they need to be. That is dharma.


From Spirituality Without God by Peter Heehs on the qualities of those who reject supernaturaliam and religious ritualism:


Subjectivity. Spiritual people cultivate inner feelings and experiences and are comparatively indifferent to outward standards of thought and behavior. They try to find what they are looking for (truth, harmony, love, fulfillment, peace) within themselves and not by accepting the ideas of other individuals or groups.


Autonomy. In their relations with the communities they belong to, spiritual people insist on personal freedom and are wary of doctrines, scriptures, and institutions. If they choose to join a group or follow a teaching, they do so freely and reject the idea that commitment implies exclusiveness.


Individual effort. Because they are focused on personal experience and suspicious of outward authority, spiritual people see their practice in terms of individual effort. They give more importance to self-discipline, meditation, and private study than congregational rituals and other group activities.


Universality. Many people believe that the experiences on which spirituality is based are the same in all cultures and periods. They find striking similarities between the teachings of mystics of different times and places, and therefore are open to inspiration from various traditions.


Empiricism. Many modern spiritual teachers have tried to bring spirituality and science together. They treat spirituality as an empirical science, with its own hypotheses and experimental procedures.


Corporality. This experimentation must, according to many people, involve not only the mind and heart but also the life and the body. Hence the popularity, among spiritual practitioners, of yoga, tai chi, and other forms of physical exercise, as well as Ayurveda, massage therapy, and other healing systems. This marks a rejection of the old religious dichotomy between spirit and body.


TruthWin, no one is challenging your versions of truth. But I do challenge the idea in general that Butler and the cult ideology and beliefs hold any unique power. Nobody, including you, has shown me any evidence to the contrary. None of your stories are "mystical". Nothing is quantifiable beyond your own testimony. You claim butler has power and an invisible God made you suffer. A shitty devotee made you suffer. You made yourself suffer by believing in their bullshit. That's it. No big mystery.


You cannot complain about rational and logical approaches to addressing what really goes on in cults like this on a mechanical, psychological level. Rationality is what distinguishes us from animals. Otherwise, we can claim that animals are having transcendent and mystical experiences and are superior to humans in consciousness. No one will be able to disprove that and no one will be the wiser. A rational approach to spirituality is imperative before any mysticism is claimed or promoted. I would rather follow something like mantra chanting initially on its value as varified by scientific study on a large population. I would like at least a systemic review of any scriptural text from a historical and anthropological angle any day before I gobble up its content as fact. And, either way, I feel that myths are way more useful comprehended as symbolic and parables rather than facts. I don't think any of us can argue with that basic desire in trying to access truth, reality and a rational approach. Especially in this age.


The fact remains that it was only during the rational period of shankara, Upanishadic composition, that any "vedic" ideas became systematically organized and made accessible, usable and intelligible. Then, in puranic composition, it once again diverts to obscurity, ritualistic, and almost childlike simplicity of thought. Aurobindo writes about this extensively (though tries to bolster and find symbolic value and correlations through heavy word play). Basically, the symbolism of ideas is lost and expressed in naive liberalism. We once again find ourselves in a rational age where cheap stories no longer hold valid answers. There is a reason Buddhism and other non-god-centric spiritual systems became so prolific in India and took a hold in much of Asia: Its fundamental building blocks don't ask us to suspend our critical thought and dictate self-exploration and self-improvement by virtue of verifiable methods. This does not negate bhakti or emotion, sentiment and so forth. But it does ask us to do some real work in the process of self-realization.


I am suggesting folks use their mind and critical thinking and take pause and remain skeptical in the face of bold claims these cults make. And also focus on the parts that have functionality and not on the abstraction of "bliss" and mythological literalism that ends up actually cheapening any real contributions of vedanta. Most of the aspects we respond to rationally in krishna consciousness are from Samkhya and Buddhist systems, i.e. not relying on belief in blue cowboy gods and becoming manjaris. And that should be enough for any human to find ample purpose and spiritual inspiration.


Culthusiest, I see many of your points in regard to butler and his extended missions. They are generally nice people. But as the basic aphorism goes: One can tell the tree by it's fruits. And as Truthwins and others here as well as myself can attest, the fruit does not fall far from the tree. These cults are riddles with cumbersome concepts and a lot of sentimental woo woo and as Truthwins has stated, bliss heads. These are people addicted to a self-righteous notion of a spirituality they hold supreme by virtue of their fanatical adherence to personality worship in the form of their guru and the gods they adore.


The end result of all of their devotion is a type of self-delusional idea that they will die and wake up in the cow planet of goloka in the form of some gopi or gopa or parent of god. This to me is naive and silly and no matter how you slice it with system dynamics and maths it adds up to a pile of garbage that is really astounding it even takes hold of any rational, sane mind for longer than a few days. And again, my major fear is for the kids raised like this and the spillover in preaching to the political sphere and the unneeded abuse and suffering of followers who fail to be able to free themselves from it even when it is very clear it is insane. That is scary.

On the topic of image/idol worship:

One of the main dangers if this practice is that it relies heavily in subjective imagination. God can look like whatever we consider attractive by mundane standards: big eyes, curves in the right places etc. One can for example see many Rajasthani paintings where Krishna is featured with a mustache, which probably was in Vogue at the time of the paintings. In more recent times, many people portray the gods with muscular physiques and so forth.

One could in theory see that any attractive persons image can be viewed as an expression of the divine. One could worship a sexy man or base an image of krishna in an attractive classic painting, as many ISKCON painters did.

As soon as god is boxed in a form the notion becomes mundane, not spiritual or transcendental in any way. From an argument on intelligent design, the human form obviously has many uneconomical features, and Oddities of proportion as well as blunt differences between the sexes are helpful to one organism and less so to another. For example, men having nipples is obviously and useless leftover of the genetic adaptation process. Not sure that adding arms or heads to the human form increases its transcendental appeal.

For example, when I used to dress the Deity form, I would often choose clothes that I personally found to me attractive and stylish. Whereas I had plenty of Godbrothers and sisters who lack a fashion sense and does the Deity in accordance with their sensibilities.

Also, the pastimes of bhagavtam end with gopis and manharis. If variety exists in an alternate spiritual world, that mirrors ours, does krishna ever have kids with radha and start a family? Or do they perpetually go in circles reenacting rasa Lila? In other words, I find it curious the bhagavatam and general gaudiya ideology leaves one to meditate in an otherwise pleasing, sexually charged, erotic innuendo tale, that is great at keeping people hanging...

The success of most religious cults is hinged on a promise of release, a final crescendo of Bliss that one prefers to stay in. And the gods have always been advertisement for that promise either through heroic tales of conquering the enemy, a spiritual "sexual" union, returning from death as whole, or mastering some powers.

As one philosopher said, if horses and cows had hands they would fashion gods in their image.

Basically, the average hare krishna devotee has filled their mind with all manner of biased images of what God looks like etc. Many vedic and puranic gods and sages are blue, for example. Not a very great skin color in general. Let alone green. And as Cultthusiast mentioned, what about variety in hair color? Is everything up there from India? How about pink and purple and green hair? Most orthodox guru's would say no, or that this is not worth speculation.

I agree, I just take it a step further and suggest that all of it is not worth a passing glance. The meager benefits garnered in these groups can never explain away the mountains of bullshit. Talking to statues, mumbling mantras and prayers and bowing to god-men who peddle feel-good stories is just the surface act. The rest of it, the hidden part of the iceberg, is a monumental deep dive of bullshittery of unimaginable proportions. Unfounded, complicated, arduous, divisive, redundant, repetitive and highly subjective. Not a single person exists to tell the tale of what it is exactly that one benefits from in these groups besides getting stuck in some kind of mental vortex of templated thinking, i.e. dogma/ideology.


Be well guys.


Fun reading:


[dhavalpurohit.weebly.com]

[www.jstor.org]

[www.jstor.org]

[foreignpolicy.com]

[www.sahapedia.org]

A great piece from 1979:
[www.sandiegoreader.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 19, 2022 12:35AM

My dear friend, are free to consider that there is nothing mystical about my experiences.
I know what I know and what I have seen. We just use words such as mystical supernatural, extraordinary to describe things that most humans do not experience.
What I shared here is still the very basic experiences. Imagine if I had to share even more.
I am sorry if I have experienced all these mind blowing things on my own. I am not forcing myself to prove anything to anybody.
I just share my experiences because I know that there is an out of ordinary aspect to the path. And of course all devotees who experience it, cannot prove it either.
But it is usually what attracts them and keeps them in.
Sorry I did not walk on water in front of a billion people and have it televized.
People like you would not even be impressed if someone could manifest fore, walk on water, or revive the dead. Even that would be considered usual.
Which actually is, but that is another subject on itself.
I like to use the word scifi because what I have been through goes beyond the romantic aspect of mystical.
Yes a shitty devotee made me suffer. This is a fact. However nothing happens randomly.
Run Forest Run, your experiences are yours. You entered a path forced by a parent.
You were super young.
I went there with my own feet as an adult. With a good amount of suffering behind me. An appreciation for the teachings and a huge amount of strange experiences, which you want to consider super normal.
Asides from the abuse and suffering, I have also benefited from this path.
I know my reality and journey better than you. So please allow me to judge what is and is not out of ordinary for me.
I can assure you that the things that I will never speak of in here, can only be seen normal by those who force themsleves to be stubborn and blind.
I did not come on this forum to annoy people or to make myself pass for a lunatic.
I brought in a different side and aspect of the path noone truly speaks of.
We all seem to be playing our own tune in here and talking into walls.
Once again, try and do your best to respect the individuality of other people’s experiences and their journey.
Your mind is way too fixed and you cannot see it. You and I are universes apart.
I hate spychoanalizing others. So I am sorry to even point that out.
We are not just all equal robbots who were groomed in a cult. We all have different backgrounds and stories.
You see, neither comments such as yours or Frozen Nick’s can break me or make me doubt my relationship with this reality.
And I do not need your acceptance and validation. I cruise a very different dimensions and it is isolating enough.
The days of letting others determine who I am and how I should think, are over.
My views and experiences with Krishna Consc were possibly way too unique and weird to share in here. But it is all right.
It helps me with not caring what others think.
I respect that you all live in your own universes. So do I.
Your views are valid for you. Mine our valid for me.
So let us mature a bit and see that we are all standing on different platforms and all souls are absolutley unique.
Me analizing you, or vice versa is not really helping anybody.
We are all way too different and we can never grasp each other. And we must understand that, so that we do not judge each other based on our limited views and journeys.
Unfortunately I am usually interested in hearing about experiences that are even more strange than mine. Not the opposite.
When we know who we are, we accept being misunderstood by others. And when we are way too different, we must accet getting judged.
At the end of the day, what unites us is the damage that the cults have caused us.
Our personalities, views, experiences is what makes us unique.
We have been in a “spiritual” community. This is not like getting kidnapped by terrorists. And we all share the same story and trauma.
We all have had a different relation with the mantras, deities, gurus… And for some maybe that relationship was non existent.
We all have our own netflix series going on. And unfortunately we all think that our stories are more valid than the guy next door.
Yes you are right. The amount of non sensial BS in all religions is monumental. There are also many “magical” aspects that keep souls going.
In every spiritual path, there are some strange things that happen too.
A bishop I listened to recently said boldly:
I KNOW Jesus is real because he has revealed himself to me.
Of course I believe the guy. Why should I dismiss his reality?
When my friend told me that mother mary appeared to her when she was a small kid and predicted their future, I believe her. I was maybe 19 or so.
Should I tell her that her experience is absolute BS and maybe she has an underlying Schizo problem. Maybe she was hallucinating.
I know that many people have great or small unusual experiences that solidify their faith.
Be it Muslim, Jew, Shiva, Kali devotee…
It is mostly a business transaction. I know this and many who are still stuck in the cult know it.
It is good that we all bring different aspects onto the table. Let us try and have appreciation for the pieces of the puzzle.
Try and look at it like an aspect I was not aware of. Have appreciation instead of criticizing and dismissing those who want to add to something to the bigger picture.
This would be equal to the fanaticism of those in the cult who refuse to see any negative aspects of the cult and butler.
To accept only one view (OURS) is another from of fanaticism and close mindedness.
What is important is that each soul finds the peace within. It does not matter what path they are on and who and what they believe or do not believe in.
We can either surrender our minds and souls or take ownership.
Maybe we are being judgmental toward the SoI slaves. I means what counts ultimately?
How the person feels within. If X and Y are still blissful getting fined for a salty dish, who am I to interfere?
If some see butler as a cool rated R language, ex yogi, surfer dude Acarya extraordinaire, it is their trip.
We are projecting our own wounds onto all the followers. Most of them are safe and sound in that krishna bed of roses illusion.
I am starting to separet myself more and more from what others go through.
Let us agree that we all look at reality (be it spiritual or material) and others from our own unique prescription glasses.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity,
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 19, 2022 03:34AM

We, in these human avatars and minds, are way too small and limited to figure out this gigantic cosmic game.
The who, why, how…
However I insist that those who start having strong faith in any religion, is not because they are just fools.
Even if one sees nothing mystical in a deity crying tears of blood or oil, some so called saints who had stigmatas on the palm of their hands, miracles happening in places such as Lourdes, apparitions… These are factors that give most humans hope that something beyond them exists.
This is non different with the devotees of Krishna. And even if my journey is absolutely ordinary to some, it was “strange “enough to trap me and make me accept this path as absolute truth.
Most people do not sit around and debunk it all. They run with the small crumbs that is offered to them. In the form of synchronicities, miracles, some extraordinary experiences.
It is totally fine is some want to believe that krishna cosc is JUST a bunch of brainwashing mythology and that guru is just a skilled MK ultra agent.
And I know that many devotees keep their experiences secret. Thinking that it is so sacred and special.
But I know they all run around with some out of the ordinary phenom that keeps them in. And that makes them fear leaving the greatest treasure.
I am fine getting even more criticized or ridiculed. Religions have zero value without the so called mystical aspects.
And I am really sorry that noone got the fact that I am not here to make it all sound romantic. I am here to say do not fall for the tricks.
No devotee is staying despite the mental, spiritual as well as physical abuses if there were no spiritual rewards involved.
Noone is going to try, boubt and debunk when the supernatural crips on you and makes you believe you are so special.
It will push you to give up more sleep, more money, more will.
People stay in material relations because of how their partner makes them feel. Some compliments, some gifts, some fun times… And souls get trapped.
I KNOW 1000000 percent that the intense feelings of love and devotion and the little miracles is what fuels most devotees. No matter who the hell their guru or sangha is.
Do not overestimate the selflessness and devotion of devotees.
I understand that logic is more safe. I cannot prove that this path holds more power to anybody.
I just know that in my personal experiences, it has held more power than any other religious path.
And maybe butler reading the minds of a few people, him entering dreams, or answering questions in lectures via synchronicities, is enough to make him pass for extraordinary.
Not everything can be explained by science. Many things cannot be explained.
No devotee is going to question when they are faced with the faced krishna honeymoon phase. Who can resist that initial phase where an ordinary dude of the streets is bombarded by phenom and feelings they do not grasp.
I honestly here to shed more light into the complexities of this path. And how peoole have such a hard time leaving.
Ultimately we do not have to prove anything to each other. We can only try and contribute what feels important to us.
If we keep our minds and hearts a bit more open, it can make it easier too.

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