Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
Rama Das (slave name)
()
Date: November 09, 2006 10:17PM
I wonder who the vanerial disease kids are? maybee at that point you don't need socks.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
TheTruthAsItIs
()
Date: November 09, 2006 11:37PM
You're not such a bad straight up gum shoe yourself Rama, and that's a credit to your folks! You are far above the usual thick as bricks mentality of the tribe.
I was sad when I read the exchange, they are good people and I am sorry for their hurt.
Meanwhile Zelig the Warrior came rushing to your defence. Good man!
Meanwhile Cult goes off on a mysterious mission to chase the Lord of the Rings on the Little Island!
I was sad when I read the exchange, they are good people and I am sorry for their hurt.
Meanwhile Zelig the Warrior came rushing to your defence. Good man!
Meanwhile Cult goes off on a mysterious mission to chase the Lord of the Rings on the Little Island!
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: November 10, 2006 07:11PM
:!: This thread has had 452 views in the past 24 hours :!:
By my calculations this is almost 10 times more than it had per day a few weeks ago. I really do wonder who all these people are who do not seem to be posting???
Anyone care to give me a crash course in free speech and maybe how RR gets to be able to talk about this sort of stuff and name names etc without having to worry about server constraints? I want to make sure that there is a way to get a really strong prescence about SOI on the web that would probably include activist stuff (something like American Hindus Against Defamation style is in order I think.. for people that are into that sort of thing) I am all for people making their own choices, but also the right to know what they are choosing and when they are spending money exactly what they are supporting.
I am sure everyone already knows my opinion that SOI has been getting away with too much for too long.
By my calculations this is almost 10 times more than it had per day a few weeks ago. I really do wonder who all these people are who do not seem to be posting???
Anyone care to give me a crash course in free speech and maybe how RR gets to be able to talk about this sort of stuff and name names etc without having to worry about server constraints? I want to make sure that there is a way to get a really strong prescence about SOI on the web that would probably include activist stuff (something like American Hindus Against Defamation style is in order I think.. for people that are into that sort of thing) I am all for people making their own choices, but also the right to know what they are choosing and when they are spending money exactly what they are supporting.
I am sure everyone already knows my opinion that SOI has been getting away with too much for too long.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: November 10, 2006 07:13PM
Blogger has been mucking around all day. Much as I love that site I was looking forward to getting this up yesterday so I hope no-one minds if I post it here instead.
During, and in the years just previous to, 1999 there was a growing trend among the young, 15-20 year old, SOI born devotees to begin engaging in amateur film making and professional 3D Computer Generated Imaging (CGI) techniques, with some completing private courses. I saw some of these films, and while many were of poor quality in concept, script and dialogue, the film editing techniques were of some standard. Many involved gruesome violence and horror. A disciple told me that Siddha had stated excessive comtemplation on such gratuitous violence was detrimental to a person's conscienceness and should be kept to a minimum.
There was also a lot of movement of devotees travelling from Australia to New Zealand to work in the studios run by SOI.
I saw hand-made props and in particular what appeared to be a viking helmet and a sword which were on route to NZ.
There was a comic book in production where the characters were modelled off Vaisnava dasi's (Wai Lana's) children and was titled "Three Young Warriors" or "Young Warriors" from memory. The quality was professional but perhaps a little average compared to some comic producers I have seen. Comic collection and art being a more American hobby I am guessing that the purpose was for sale in the US and the artists I had heard were mostly American. A disciple named Ivesvara das on the Gold Coast, who is known for his many years working on Disney films, was also involved in producing these comics and had departed Australia to help in the their completion.
When the preview for Ninjai was first available I had a veiwing in 2001. My suspicion was that the direction, storyboarding and layout art may have been produced by Ivesvara das, as it was very much similar to his style. The child's voice used for the character of Ninjai sounded eeirily similar to his own son, however I couldn't be sure. Upon watching Ninjai I felt the opening scene was very similar to the opening scene of 'The Cell' with Jeniffer Lopez. The plot is dismally insubstantial. It's a boy 5 years old in appearance, expertly trained in martial arts, and in complete disillusion of his identity with distrubing philisophical confusion surrounding his very existence.
The scene is set with Ninjai walking through a fictitious wasteland on earth where cannabalism is commonplace. He engages in brutally killing those he labels 'demons' who attempt to eat him for perhaps idle pleasure or a real sense of survival due to lack of available sources of food. I couldn't be sure which. Knowing of armageddon predictions regarding the Y2K bug made by Siddha it seemed that the scene was in the aftermath of a catastropic event, leaving the planet desolate and unpopulated with those who survive, except for the spiritually minded Ninjai, to regress to animalistic instincts. It vaguely resembled a story idea I had mentioned to Ivesvara das shortly prior to his departing for the studio.
There was also a similar voice to Ninjai used for the character of Krishna in his boyhood pastimes for a full-length animated feature film, which was being produced with a combination of hand-drawn and 3D computerised art, and which I believed would never see completion. The consideration was whether I should be put under contract in the production of this film, also for confidentiality, whilst others were working on the other projects mentioned. How I was expected to feel enduring motivation in completing a hand-drawn feature film as an independent, unassisted, untrained, unpaid animator I do not know. It was a completely disheartening experience. While notice of my artistic abilities had caused me to be approached to work on this project my only training in animation was several days over two months prior to working on cells that would be going to final print. This resulted in my quitting before a contract was drawn up.
The film had half-approval from Siddha as Ivesvara das had scripted, story boarded and produced the entire layout art for the movie in obvious fine, professional quality, however the possible depiction of Krishna as an animated 'fictional' character was not met with complete acceptance. The appearance of Krishna was very attractively drawn and bore great resemblance to popular images of Krishna as far as Disney style art is concerned. Siddha felt the character was not quite right in it's creation.
The confidentiality in this case I believed at the time, as with other creative endeavours, was maintained to avoid stolen ideas or leaks to the public which would spoil the expectations and suspense of the final unvieling. Legally bound confidentiality which continues after a project is released to the public is usually attributed to an eccentric creative director or a wish not to reveal the tricks behind the magic in production. Or perhaps it is a sign of corruption. Given it has been suggested that Ninjai was produced by children perhaps child labor laws have been breached. This would not be entirely improbable with SOI's superior theocracy where laws are viewed as being governed by less spiritually-advanced authorities and therefore not necessarily applicable to Siddha's followers.
An even more likely reasoning behind toatal secrecy in SOI's creative arts projects is the possibility of unwanted discussions about the internal lives, philosophies and workings of SOI. These may envelop and overshadow innocent portrayals and divulging of creative processes that may be of interest to fans of their projects. The contractual agreement of confidentiality would also bind individuals to not disclose the projects link to SOI in the event of one leaving the foundation. Utilization of a scripted spokesperson is a much safer alternative.
The curious projects deveploped by SOI members are a striking contradiction to many of Siddha's emphatic teachings. Ninjai for example is suprisingly overly diluted in philosphy for a catoon which would be deemed by many to be adult orientated. Developing the cartoon for the internet allows it to avoid attracting a restricted rating. Lacing a story with a crude version of the SOI philosophy that involves violence, fanaticism and horror in a fictitious manner goes directly against Siddha's lectures. Anyone who watched such a cartoon created outside of SOI would be criticised as allowing ones mind to be completely manipulated by hidden agendas of the directors. Siddha declared in a taped lecture, addressing the issue that his followers were watching a lot of movies, that they were allowing their minds to be 'f**ked' by the directors. He said "You are literally sitting there opening up your mind to these people and saying f**k me."
In one of Siddha's earliest SOI publications 'Who Controls Your Mind?' he speaks against using the media to appeal to the lowest common denominator, lowering consciousness rather than raising it. In this booklet Siddha's struggle is quite apparent in his attempt to discuss spirituality with a newspaper reporter who is not interested in mediating anything other than the most mudane aspects of his visit to New Zealand. He describes the role of the media as a transparent window which should not taint or editorialise information being portrayed. He says that the media chooses aspects of what they portray based on what is appealing or titilating rather than trying to present the core meaning of the subject. So it appears that Siddha has conceded defeat of this heartfelt idealistic view that inspired myself and others to adhere to and follow his teachings.
Siddha has asserted that animal characters in cartoons and children's books which have characteristics such as wearing clothes or speaking are deluding children into thinking that animals have human personalities. He gave an example that the 'worst offence' of talking animals were adveritsements with animated animals giving children the impression that they were perfectly happy with being consumed as food. Siddha has spoken often on the subject of it being an impediment to teaching children to have a spiritual life for parents to allow them to be exposed to unrealistic and fanciful notions. Devotee children are generally forbidden to have toys which are deemed 'commercial' - popular toy icons such as Barbie and action figures or characters from children's movies or television (which they would be unlikely to be watching anyway). He has referred to Santa Claus as the 'anti-Christ' Siddha also condemns children from having 'too much imagination' or being allowed to engage in 'role-playing' - which most child experts consider to be a normal part of children's personality development.
This has not however prevented Wai Lana from producing the 'Little Yogis' featuring colourful and simply drawn human characters having fun alongside humanistic animals that include pink elephants, firmly established in popular culture as a symbol of drunkeness and a gender ambivalent blue bear that seems to have serious behavioural problems and openly announces "I need pee!" Little Yogis has won much criticl acclaim as documented on the websie www.littleyogis.com All positive feedback however is based on the ideal which has been perpetuated by Wai Lana that yoga is a fun and effective way for children to be healthy and engage in regular exercise. Coupled with the elements of meditation in the instructional DVDs though and considering SOI's preference for subliminal indoctrination 'Little Yogis' should also be considered as a means of conditioning children to engage in elements of spiritual life, and intentionally setting a foundation for them to be open to further interest in this later in life.
As with the modification of Lord Chaitanya's holy prayer into a more palatable format, (one should chant the yoga sound...) in order to appeal to those unfamiliar or potentially prejudicial towards Krishna Consciousness, SOI's artisitic marketing ploys have turned blasphemous and provide further evidence of Siddha's hypocrisy.
During, and in the years just previous to, 1999 there was a growing trend among the young, 15-20 year old, SOI born devotees to begin engaging in amateur film making and professional 3D Computer Generated Imaging (CGI) techniques, with some completing private courses. I saw some of these films, and while many were of poor quality in concept, script and dialogue, the film editing techniques were of some standard. Many involved gruesome violence and horror. A disciple told me that Siddha had stated excessive comtemplation on such gratuitous violence was detrimental to a person's conscienceness and should be kept to a minimum.
There was also a lot of movement of devotees travelling from Australia to New Zealand to work in the studios run by SOI.
I saw hand-made props and in particular what appeared to be a viking helmet and a sword which were on route to NZ.
There was a comic book in production where the characters were modelled off Vaisnava dasi's (Wai Lana's) children and was titled "Three Young Warriors" or "Young Warriors" from memory. The quality was professional but perhaps a little average compared to some comic producers I have seen. Comic collection and art being a more American hobby I am guessing that the purpose was for sale in the US and the artists I had heard were mostly American. A disciple named Ivesvara das on the Gold Coast, who is known for his many years working on Disney films, was also involved in producing these comics and had departed Australia to help in the their completion.
When the preview for Ninjai was first available I had a veiwing in 2001. My suspicion was that the direction, storyboarding and layout art may have been produced by Ivesvara das, as it was very much similar to his style. The child's voice used for the character of Ninjai sounded eeirily similar to his own son, however I couldn't be sure. Upon watching Ninjai I felt the opening scene was very similar to the opening scene of 'The Cell' with Jeniffer Lopez. The plot is dismally insubstantial. It's a boy 5 years old in appearance, expertly trained in martial arts, and in complete disillusion of his identity with distrubing philisophical confusion surrounding his very existence.
The scene is set with Ninjai walking through a fictitious wasteland on earth where cannabalism is commonplace. He engages in brutally killing those he labels 'demons' who attempt to eat him for perhaps idle pleasure or a real sense of survival due to lack of available sources of food. I couldn't be sure which. Knowing of armageddon predictions regarding the Y2K bug made by Siddha it seemed that the scene was in the aftermath of a catastropic event, leaving the planet desolate and unpopulated with those who survive, except for the spiritually minded Ninjai, to regress to animalistic instincts. It vaguely resembled a story idea I had mentioned to Ivesvara das shortly prior to his departing for the studio.
There was also a similar voice to Ninjai used for the character of Krishna in his boyhood pastimes for a full-length animated feature film, which was being produced with a combination of hand-drawn and 3D computerised art, and which I believed would never see completion. The consideration was whether I should be put under contract in the production of this film, also for confidentiality, whilst others were working on the other projects mentioned. How I was expected to feel enduring motivation in completing a hand-drawn feature film as an independent, unassisted, untrained, unpaid animator I do not know. It was a completely disheartening experience. While notice of my artistic abilities had caused me to be approached to work on this project my only training in animation was several days over two months prior to working on cells that would be going to final print. This resulted in my quitting before a contract was drawn up.
The film had half-approval from Siddha as Ivesvara das had scripted, story boarded and produced the entire layout art for the movie in obvious fine, professional quality, however the possible depiction of Krishna as an animated 'fictional' character was not met with complete acceptance. The appearance of Krishna was very attractively drawn and bore great resemblance to popular images of Krishna as far as Disney style art is concerned. Siddha felt the character was not quite right in it's creation.
The confidentiality in this case I believed at the time, as with other creative endeavours, was maintained to avoid stolen ideas or leaks to the public which would spoil the expectations and suspense of the final unvieling. Legally bound confidentiality which continues after a project is released to the public is usually attributed to an eccentric creative director or a wish not to reveal the tricks behind the magic in production. Or perhaps it is a sign of corruption. Given it has been suggested that Ninjai was produced by children perhaps child labor laws have been breached. This would not be entirely improbable with SOI's superior theocracy where laws are viewed as being governed by less spiritually-advanced authorities and therefore not necessarily applicable to Siddha's followers.
An even more likely reasoning behind toatal secrecy in SOI's creative arts projects is the possibility of unwanted discussions about the internal lives, philosophies and workings of SOI. These may envelop and overshadow innocent portrayals and divulging of creative processes that may be of interest to fans of their projects. The contractual agreement of confidentiality would also bind individuals to not disclose the projects link to SOI in the event of one leaving the foundation. Utilization of a scripted spokesperson is a much safer alternative.
The curious projects deveploped by SOI members are a striking contradiction to many of Siddha's emphatic teachings. Ninjai for example is suprisingly overly diluted in philosphy for a catoon which would be deemed by many to be adult orientated. Developing the cartoon for the internet allows it to avoid attracting a restricted rating. Lacing a story with a crude version of the SOI philosophy that involves violence, fanaticism and horror in a fictitious manner goes directly against Siddha's lectures. Anyone who watched such a cartoon created outside of SOI would be criticised as allowing ones mind to be completely manipulated by hidden agendas of the directors. Siddha declared in a taped lecture, addressing the issue that his followers were watching a lot of movies, that they were allowing their minds to be 'f**ked' by the directors. He said "You are literally sitting there opening up your mind to these people and saying f**k me."
In one of Siddha's earliest SOI publications 'Who Controls Your Mind?' he speaks against using the media to appeal to the lowest common denominator, lowering consciousness rather than raising it. In this booklet Siddha's struggle is quite apparent in his attempt to discuss spirituality with a newspaper reporter who is not interested in mediating anything other than the most mudane aspects of his visit to New Zealand. He describes the role of the media as a transparent window which should not taint or editorialise information being portrayed. He says that the media chooses aspects of what they portray based on what is appealing or titilating rather than trying to present the core meaning of the subject. So it appears that Siddha has conceded defeat of this heartfelt idealistic view that inspired myself and others to adhere to and follow his teachings.
Siddha has asserted that animal characters in cartoons and children's books which have characteristics such as wearing clothes or speaking are deluding children into thinking that animals have human personalities. He gave an example that the 'worst offence' of talking animals were adveritsements with animated animals giving children the impression that they were perfectly happy with being consumed as food. Siddha has spoken often on the subject of it being an impediment to teaching children to have a spiritual life for parents to allow them to be exposed to unrealistic and fanciful notions. Devotee children are generally forbidden to have toys which are deemed 'commercial' - popular toy icons such as Barbie and action figures or characters from children's movies or television (which they would be unlikely to be watching anyway). He has referred to Santa Claus as the 'anti-Christ' Siddha also condemns children from having 'too much imagination' or being allowed to engage in 'role-playing' - which most child experts consider to be a normal part of children's personality development.
This has not however prevented Wai Lana from producing the 'Little Yogis' featuring colourful and simply drawn human characters having fun alongside humanistic animals that include pink elephants, firmly established in popular culture as a symbol of drunkeness and a gender ambivalent blue bear that seems to have serious behavioural problems and openly announces "I need pee!" Little Yogis has won much criticl acclaim as documented on the websie www.littleyogis.com All positive feedback however is based on the ideal which has been perpetuated by Wai Lana that yoga is a fun and effective way for children to be healthy and engage in regular exercise. Coupled with the elements of meditation in the instructional DVDs though and considering SOI's preference for subliminal indoctrination 'Little Yogis' should also be considered as a means of conditioning children to engage in elements of spiritual life, and intentionally setting a foundation for them to be open to further interest in this later in life.
As with the modification of Lord Chaitanya's holy prayer into a more palatable format, (one should chant the yoga sound...) in order to appeal to those unfamiliar or potentially prejudicial towards Krishna Consciousness, SOI's artisitic marketing ploys have turned blasphemous and provide further evidence of Siddha's hypocrisy.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: November 11, 2006 01:12AM
Great stuff cultreporter.
In case anyone has not put this URL in their favorites yet.
quoted from --- [science-of-identity.blogspot.com]Quote
[b:0a311b7b9e][i:0a311b7b9e]Not chanting enough or being serious enough is a burden that all devotees carry - a spiritual self flagellation[/i:0a311b7b9e][/b:0a311b7b9e]. Everything good Krishna does and everything bad you do to yourself. Perfect circular reasoning for why there is any sufferring in the world and like a circle it has no apparent end to it.
In case anyone has not put this URL in their favorites yet.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
TheTruthAsItIs
()
Date: November 11, 2006 02:22AM
Yes, cultereporter, thank you for your dedicated and persistent work, well researched too, perhaps you could sign off all your postings with your signature, being your website address for ease of reference.
One should examine oneself for a very long time before thinking of condemning others. Moliere
Whatever you condemn, you have done yourself. Georg Groddeck, The Book of the It, 1950
All reformers, however strict their social conscience, live in houses just as big as they can pay for. Logan
One should examine oneself for a very long time before thinking of condemning others. Moliere
Whatever you condemn, you have done yourself. Georg Groddeck, The Book of the It, 1950
All reformers, however strict their social conscience, live in houses just as big as they can pay for. Logan
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: November 11, 2006 09:45AM
Quote
zelig
Great stuff cultreporter.quoted from --- [science-of-identity.blogspot.com]Quote
[b:707177a769][i:707177a769]Not chanting enough or being serious enough is a burden that all devotees carry - a spiritual self flagellation[/i:707177a769][/b:707177a769]. Everything good Krishna does and everything bad you do to yourself. Perfect circular reasoning for why there is any sufferring in the world and like a circle it has no apparent end to it.
In case anyone has not put this URL in their favorites yet.
I actually wrote this in an e-mail to someone who I consider far more insightful than I and they sent it back to me with the sugguestion that it should be on the site.
In regards to leaving the cult it has been 6 months for me today. It doesn't seem so long with everyday feeling like the same shrouded in a sense of depression. The impact of being in SOI carried through into every aspect of my life and there was a lot to be resolved and some with which I reluctantly accept defeat knowing that it probably never will be.
I gladly gave up everything to go to Krishna. I believed with my whole heart that my prayers to find someone to help me in spiritual life had been answered and that a rapid and unexplainable improvement in my health was on account of chanting. When I was a devotee and I talked to others about what had brought me there they expressed amazement and said that it was obvious that Krishna was looking after me. I have talked about this experience to devotees of other gurus and in other forums and they say obviously you are blessed - Jaya Narasingha! (He was always my favourite) how lucky you are - come to our temple we will show you real spiritual life. I have laughed so hard at the various Buddhist groups and others that have tried to recruit me through Krishna forums. It is a nice story, a faithful story and if it belonged to someone else and I read it in a book it would make me want to go to Krishna.
But it is not the whole story and when it ends the moral is very far from 'If you take one step towards Krishna he will take a thousand towards you' or 'Chant and be happy'. I believe I have seen the best and worst of human nature all in the same place, and the paradox personified in a single soul. I told him once that he had made me the happiest and saddest that I have been in my life and he solemly promised that he would never make me cry again. I remember him telling me that I should never be afraid because he was with me and that he would take care of me. Telling me that he loved me, the flare in his eyes when he declared that it was not true that he didn't want to be with me, the tears of guilt over the admission that he could not take care of me and the admonishment of disciples for his relationship with me. I remember him telling me how miserable he was for many reasons and that he wanted to leave but there was always a but.
I know he believes in Siddha. I doubt that he believes in Krishna or even knows that much about Him given that this is not the focus of his spiritual life. They punish him now over me while he calls them his friends and me his enemy.
It does not matter that I am the one he as always with, that I am the one who cared that he had a nice home for him and his son, who made sure there was milk in the fridge and coffee and a freshly ironed shirt before he went to work. I helped him at work and caught spiders and watched star trek and defended him to any devotee who tried to tell me he was not serious enough and that he was not worth my time. I rubbed his back when it was sore and his temples when he had a headache. He cried on my shoulder about the problems he had which came directly from the cult and spent all his time with me by his own choice.
I didn't make him say he loved me or talk about children or that the ornate house down the block would be the next one we would live in. There was nothing I would not do for him because I loved him, and all the things he did how could someone possibly lie so much and so well with their words and actions? The devotees who say I am crazy etc now that there was nothing between us were never there in that house with us.
I have wanted so badly to see him as I always have and wanted him to be as he was. I have wanted him to be free. What I have not wanted is to accept that he is just like them. Even if he does let them make his bed he chooses to lie in it. Even if he is a hateful liar there can be no God or higher truth in this situation. There can be no faith to emerge from it.
To devastate another person without any remorse, to convince yourselves that you were justified to turn them away from their faith and dismiss it although you have never felt how deep it was, to claim that normal human and in your beliefs God given emotions such as affection and love are not even real and dismiss them as having absolutely no value and to hide from the truth about SOI, ignore the contradictions and the hypocrisy - do you believe in anything at all?
The grand total of my spiritual wisdom is this - Belief is the strongest emotion that we have and To chase something for years on end, to devote your live to attaining it and then finally getting it could just as accurately be called God as it could be called co-incidence.
If I who am no-one was to put my life and every cent that I had into starting a religion then it would happen. There would be people that would believe in it. Even Charles Manson had followers and he was an illiterate drug addicted ex-con son of a teenage prostitute. The only trick to it is to make people happy or a far easier task - convince them that they deserve to be miserable and just keep dangling that carrot of hope.
Strange is our situation here on earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet somehow seeming to divine a purpose. From the standpoint of daily life, however, there is one thing we do know: that man is here for the sake of other men – above all those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness depends." – Albert Einstein
I know that the devotees where I am from read this, and I know that the one I love and fear so much for does too. There is nothing I would not do to see your smile again and have you back in my life or recover all the belief I have lost. The sincerest and longest prayers in the world have not made Krishna take a single step towards me yet.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
freeman
()
Date: November 11, 2006 04:44PM
Wow by the looks of things bird flu may be the least of his problem. Maybe the end is finally near.
I was in Science of Identity myself for almost 6 years around the Gold Coast tribe. I have only been out for about three months. All I have to say to cultreporter is don't worry about him, he is a loser and yes while he acted all the time like you were his wife I know that he was also really cruel and selfish, weak to their orders totally, and I felt like decking him on more than one occassion over how he was treating you. Seeing that someone who was so serious and sincere and humble being treated like you were was a real wake up call to me. It was the beginning of my decision to get out of there.
Write on sister and let other people see what these people are really like and how their teachings empower them, it is powerful stuff. Maybe in a year or two you will hear from him again and he will appreciate then what it is for someone to care about him and want to help him out.
I wouldn't say that I was threatened when I left but I was definitely harrassed - those people just do not want to take a hint. I had to move and change my phone number to get them to stop trying to bring me back "for my own good".
My experience in Queensland was that the devotees and disciples have a very casual approach to spiritual life, they are happy to just mainly retreat from society and live in their own little community they have made for themselves. A few years ago there were more organised and communal housing bramachari houses for the young guys and a group house in Brisbane but as time has gone by they have become even more disparate. There are about maybe 150 of them that are genuine hangers on by my best estimate. That is including kids. I knew a few of the teens really well and it is obvious that there is going to be a lot of rebellion just around the corner.
Most of them are related about four main families with all the in-laws, step parents etc. and if they keep driving nice girls away or cloistering them all away at 'the farm' there is going to be serious problems breeding new followers in the future. The Australian School of Meditation was getting a lot sneakier to my recent knowledge about trying to recruit new people using the university and talking about getting out into youth and community centres and such. The cult itself is mainly underground with the serious stuff going on away from the centres. They really are just a front and a lot of devotees don't even bother to go to kirtans there. It has become more and more just gauranga breathing and cake, nice stuff, whispher about Siddha in their ear if they come back more than a few times.
As Siddhas ideas do seem to be getting more outrageous they are getting harder and harder to sell. Getting lectures has been really tough over the past few years and all the ones that they play at kirtan, where there is any chance of new people hearing them, are from the 70s. That was what brought me in.
Over the past year I would say things have totally taken a turn for the worst, but there was always a few suspicious elements. It is very hard to work out what's what when you never see the man and you hear his lectures saying "don't worry if the disciples seem to do the wrong thing - they are not perfect - it is like avoiding a hospital when you need treatment because you don't like sick people. chant more chant more chant more Haribol!!"
I was in Science of Identity myself for almost 6 years around the Gold Coast tribe. I have only been out for about three months. All I have to say to cultreporter is don't worry about him, he is a loser and yes while he acted all the time like you were his wife I know that he was also really cruel and selfish, weak to their orders totally, and I felt like decking him on more than one occassion over how he was treating you. Seeing that someone who was so serious and sincere and humble being treated like you were was a real wake up call to me. It was the beginning of my decision to get out of there.
Write on sister and let other people see what these people are really like and how their teachings empower them, it is powerful stuff. Maybe in a year or two you will hear from him again and he will appreciate then what it is for someone to care about him and want to help him out.
I wouldn't say that I was threatened when I left but I was definitely harrassed - those people just do not want to take a hint. I had to move and change my phone number to get them to stop trying to bring me back "for my own good".
My experience in Queensland was that the devotees and disciples have a very casual approach to spiritual life, they are happy to just mainly retreat from society and live in their own little community they have made for themselves. A few years ago there were more organised and communal housing bramachari houses for the young guys and a group house in Brisbane but as time has gone by they have become even more disparate. There are about maybe 150 of them that are genuine hangers on by my best estimate. That is including kids. I knew a few of the teens really well and it is obvious that there is going to be a lot of rebellion just around the corner.
Most of them are related about four main families with all the in-laws, step parents etc. and if they keep driving nice girls away or cloistering them all away at 'the farm' there is going to be serious problems breeding new followers in the future. The Australian School of Meditation was getting a lot sneakier to my recent knowledge about trying to recruit new people using the university and talking about getting out into youth and community centres and such. The cult itself is mainly underground with the serious stuff going on away from the centres. They really are just a front and a lot of devotees don't even bother to go to kirtans there. It has become more and more just gauranga breathing and cake, nice stuff, whispher about Siddha in their ear if they come back more than a few times.
As Siddhas ideas do seem to be getting more outrageous they are getting harder and harder to sell. Getting lectures has been really tough over the past few years and all the ones that they play at kirtan, where there is any chance of new people hearing them, are from the 70s. That was what brought me in.
Over the past year I would say things have totally taken a turn for the worst, but there was always a few suspicious elements. It is very hard to work out what's what when you never see the man and you hear his lectures saying "don't worry if the disciples seem to do the wrong thing - they are not perfect - it is like avoiding a hospital when you need treatment because you don't like sick people. chant more chant more chant more Haribol!!"
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
TheTruthAsItIs
()
Date: November 11, 2006 07:59PM
Cult, your words take us back to that heartache, as we age and become harder, we forget those youthful feelings that once were so intense and very painful. "Devastation" is a good word to describe rejection ... you have at least common ground with Siddha on that, something like I remember him saying "tearing the wings off a fly". There is no cure for this pain, but I suspect Siddha went on to set up his whole thing as a defence mechanism, as a way to never go through that horror again. Put your love on the spiritual plane, and it can never be violated (at least by earthly means) again. A person like this actually has a very soft heart behind the multiple facades, a person like this is very aware of the hurt that can be experienced by a child (which is like the touch of a butterfly's wings), that most us would not even be dimly aware of ... extreme acute perceptions.
I was thinking of the Wizard of Oz today, creating a sort of utopia in a place of misery and confusion (this earth), give the people what they want, give them rituals and regulations, give them a community and nice companions, give them activities and projects, give them employment, give them down time (yoga, surfing, making movies, music, martial arts), give them a city of spiritual emeralds, mysticism and magic, give them that "special feeling" that they are more worthy/qualified/advanced than everyone else (tempered with balance that everyone is the spark of God while you are feeling good natured but in the meantime, they are grovelling demons), give them the credibility of scripture and God in the Heart to test the authenticity of the spiritual master), give them a God to love and most of all give them a map to see their way through the ultimate journey: death.
Only the naughty ones or low level workers (or bores) are convinced they deserve to be miserable. The favoured ones get emerald seats. So what, this formula has worked for centuries ... the winners don't want to sit with the workers, bores or rebellious, or ones with no chunk of coin (special talents or qualifications are an exception), and so you have to think of a way to keep them in the outhouse. Mankind and rulers have been doing this for centuries, so no huge conspiracy theory here.
Come with me down the Yellow Brick Road to discover the wonderful wonderful world of Oz, to see the Wizard who will help you return home to Krishna.
The companions must wear special spectacles to keep the brilliance of the Emerald City from blinding them; wearing them, everything appears in different shades of green.
- or face masks / disease tests -
They are told that the Wizard will only see one of them a day
- or none of them unless they are in the "inner sanctum"
The Wizard agrees to help each of them, but his help is conditional -
- too many conditions to list (devotees will know)
Dorothy is forced to work as a maid to the Wicked Witch
- maids know who they are
When each traveler meets the Wizard, he appears each time as someone or something different.
- each devotee is judged according to his special weakness
The Wizard tries to persuade the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion that what they lack are not brains or a heart or courage, but faith.
- you don't need money, education, family or any other false prestige to go back to where you belong.
Ultimately the moral of the story is that you have in yourself what you need to return home, you dont need to seek it out from others.
- the spark of God but slight deviation: you need a spiritual master to get back to where you came from.
For those who choose to be in the Land of Oz, it is a happy and protected place to be, so why complain, the Wizard has given them what they want ... is it necessary to look behind the curtain?
Is the Wizard therefore the hero and champion of the people? For he has taken it upon his shoulders to bear the ultimate terror of what is really behind the curtain (nothing) - no wonder he has become so sick and paranoid - he who has given the people a city of emeralds and hope?
For those few nosy green wretched meddling munchkins who have insisted on taking a peek behind the curtain, you have been banished from the Land of Oz, for treason and the potential to create serious political unrest. You can neither go back (you know what is behind the curtain) and you can neither go forward (for nothing is as wonderful, as wonderful as somewhere over the Vrindavan rainbow).
Quote
If I who am no-one was to put my life and every cent that I had into starting a religion then it would happen. There would be people that would believe in it. Even Charles Manson had followers and he was an illiterate drug addicted ex-con son of a teenage prostitute. The only trick to it is to make people happy or a far easier task - convince them that they deserve to be miserable and just keep dangling that carrot of hope.
I was thinking of the Wizard of Oz today, creating a sort of utopia in a place of misery and confusion (this earth), give the people what they want, give them rituals and regulations, give them a community and nice companions, give them activities and projects, give them employment, give them down time (yoga, surfing, making movies, music, martial arts), give them a city of spiritual emeralds, mysticism and magic, give them that "special feeling" that they are more worthy/qualified/advanced than everyone else (tempered with balance that everyone is the spark of God while you are feeling good natured but in the meantime, they are grovelling demons), give them the credibility of scripture and God in the Heart to test the authenticity of the spiritual master), give them a God to love and most of all give them a map to see their way through the ultimate journey: death.
Only the naughty ones or low level workers (or bores) are convinced they deserve to be miserable. The favoured ones get emerald seats. So what, this formula has worked for centuries ... the winners don't want to sit with the workers, bores or rebellious, or ones with no chunk of coin (special talents or qualifications are an exception), and so you have to think of a way to keep them in the outhouse. Mankind and rulers have been doing this for centuries, so no huge conspiracy theory here.
Come with me down the Yellow Brick Road to discover the wonderful wonderful world of Oz, to see the Wizard who will help you return home to Krishna.
The companions must wear special spectacles to keep the brilliance of the Emerald City from blinding them; wearing them, everything appears in different shades of green.
- or face masks / disease tests -
They are told that the Wizard will only see one of them a day
- or none of them unless they are in the "inner sanctum"
The Wizard agrees to help each of them, but his help is conditional -
- too many conditions to list (devotees will know)
Dorothy is forced to work as a maid to the Wicked Witch
- maids know who they are
When each traveler meets the Wizard, he appears each time as someone or something different.
- each devotee is judged according to his special weakness
The Wizard tries to persuade the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion that what they lack are not brains or a heart or courage, but faith.
- you don't need money, education, family or any other false prestige to go back to where you belong.
Ultimately the moral of the story is that you have in yourself what you need to return home, you dont need to seek it out from others.
- the spark of God but slight deviation: you need a spiritual master to get back to where you came from.
For those who choose to be in the Land of Oz, it is a happy and protected place to be, so why complain, the Wizard has given them what they want ... is it necessary to look behind the curtain?
Is the Wizard therefore the hero and champion of the people? For he has taken it upon his shoulders to bear the ultimate terror of what is really behind the curtain (nothing) - no wonder he has become so sick and paranoid - he who has given the people a city of emeralds and hope?
For those few nosy green wretched meddling munchkins who have insisted on taking a peek behind the curtain, you have been banished from the Land of Oz, for treason and the potential to create serious political unrest. You can neither go back (you know what is behind the curtain) and you can neither go forward (for nothing is as wonderful, as wonderful as somewhere over the Vrindavan rainbow).
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
TheTruthAsItIs
()
Date: November 11, 2006 10:55PM
Welcome Freeman,
6 years is a long time to be in the Land of Oz. How are you coping on the "outside"?
Cult is having a hard time coming to realise that she is stuck on a twit. Everyone knows that Siddha has very little time for hanky panky types. If anything Siddha has respect for a person with guts ... But admittedly he does look after his cubs, especially the limping ones. So I guess he will suckle this one through the trauma, as he has done before.
Cult, who has enormous intellect, creativity, imagination, potential love for God, is somehow stuck on this wimp, who should be so lucky to be criminally stalked (the only chance he will ever get in his life to be stalked because no one else would waste their time to do this).
Cult suffers from loving too much, and wasting her devotion in the wrong direction ... even an ant could understand that her energy is wasted here.
6 years is a long time to be in the Land of Oz. How are you coping on the "outside"?
Quote
I was in Science of Identity myself for almost 6 years around the Gold Coast tribe. I have only been out for about three months. All I have to say to cultreporter is don't worry about him, he is a loser and yes while he acted all the time like you were his wife I know that he was also really cruel and selfish, weak to their orders totally, and I felt like decking him on more than one occassion over how he was treating you.
Cult is having a hard time coming to realise that she is stuck on a twit. Everyone knows that Siddha has very little time for hanky panky types. If anything Siddha has respect for a person with guts ... But admittedly he does look after his cubs, especially the limping ones. So I guess he will suckle this one through the trauma, as he has done before.
Cult, who has enormous intellect, creativity, imagination, potential love for God, is somehow stuck on this wimp, who should be so lucky to be criminally stalked (the only chance he will ever get in his life to be stalked because no one else would waste their time to do this).
Cult suffers from loving too much, and wasting her devotion in the wrong direction ... even an ant could understand that her energy is wasted here.
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