I haven't posted here in a while, but I've been reading.

Veracity - that letter from Prema is hilarious!!!

So typical of the petty BS that goes on in that cult - and that letter is 20 years old!!!

Well, I'm going to admit this to the world - I can see where CB is coming from because if I don't have a mango for breakfast, I'll cease to exist.


This is so inane it is not even worth commenting on anymore..............

Quote
hoax108
I haven't posted here in a while, but I've been reading.

Veracity - that letter from Prema is hilarious!!!

So typical of the petty BS that goes on in that cult - and that letter is 20 years old!!!

Well, I'm going to admit this to the world - I can see where CB is coming from because if I don't have a mango for breakfast, I'll cease to exist.


This is so inane it is not even worth commenting on anymore..............

LOL!
What's not funny is that CB really believed he was a little godling deserving of mangoes daily for breakfast.
What's scary is that his followers complied... and still do...

20 years later he is still playing the game, still operating cart blanche.

It's amazing isn't it?

He's got his followers so brainwashed by the serving guru mandate that they can't think rationally at all.

I mean, if you brought up this point with a disciple of CB, the response would be:

"He's trying to help us achieve a consciousness of pure devotional service. How can we get there if we are so neglectful of our dear gurudeva?"

This is my humble opinion:

Gurus lead by example. They should also display fairly similar approaches, barring some personality traits, in their devotional practices.

CB preached a lot about Jesus while I was around. He made it sound like he was a real admirer of Jesus and he put forth that, like Jesus, he was also the way, the truth , and the light.

Well, there is a passage in the Bible where Jesus is going on a preaching mission with his disciples and they were in anxiety about what they were going to eat and so on.

Jesus chastised them for having no faith and letting them know that they should have great faith that God will look after them.

CB appears to be taking the opposite approach here. He's whining about not getting mangoes.

Does this represent a mere difference in personality, or a different theological grounding?

I say the latter. It is just more evidence that he is not bonafide, IMHO.

And I'm NOT going to hell for saying that. Hear that you haribolers?? I'm NOT going to be punished for questioning the validity of who CB says he is.

Thank you God.

Thanks Rick for changing the thread name.
It's more appropriate and easier for people looking for information about this cult on the WWW.

well spoken hoax 108.
Isn't having gratitiude for what has been given a spiritual virtue?

He also used Jesus as his own "doormat" to maintain control over his followers.
Instead of dying on the cross for people's sins,
he just got sick!
He made everyone feel guilty so they would pay up!
There was also a myth that Chris Butler went up the mountain
and fasted for 40 days to get enlightenment or connect to the "Father".

You'd think the guy could come up with something original, eh?
Actually, his theology is his own
and does not compare to any real religious tradition.

I do remember seeing the movie "Brother Sun, Sister Moon"
and reading "Little Flowers" by Saint Francis of Assisi while in the group.
I also was reading biographies of the older Vaishanvas (other forbidden books).
I found many similarities with how they conducted their lives
with the life of Saint Francis
and his followers.
When I began to see CB riding around in limos
and living in fancy apartments is when I started to doubt him.
When I started to see him be abusive to sincere followers, I decided to leave.

They say that the more Jagad Guru "loves" you,
the more he chastises you.
Mind fuck you is more like it.
So people who were emotionally hemorhaging on the inside
became too weak
know they were losing their minds and resources.

I guess once a person is bled out
of all his critical thinking skills,
they are stuck in a cult.

I'm not totally cynical. People do get out, even after decades.

What follows are a series of memos from 1987 -1988.
There are over 50 pages.
Here are two concerning Chris Butler’s security.
He was convinced that he had so many enemies that he needed 24/7 security guards.





There is a story CB used to tell, and I think it has been reported on this forum before, about the guru who got his legs stuck in a lotus position. There are several versions. CB told the story of a man who went to the mountains to achieve nirvana. He sat in a cave by himself and meditated all day and took a vow of silence. Soon villagers would come by and make offerings. He liked the attention and it motivated him to meditate longer hours.

He became more and more famous and began to take on followers. The followers started to worship the guru, offering him incense and flower garlands.

The guru prided himself in his ability to meditate for long hours until one day he could not move or speak. He was forever paralyzed in the lotus position and totally dependent on his disciples for everything. He had become completely helpless. They fed him, bathed him, and wiped his ass for him. The guru was secretly humiliated but could not speak. The followers loved their silent deity stuck in the lotus position. They decided to share him with other villages. They made a palanquin and put him on tour. They him made a golden temple in which he became trapped.

I can’t help but be struck by the fact that this story is analogous to what has happened to Chris Butler. It is ironic how CB would roar with mocking laughter telling this tale and how it has echoed his own biography. The difference is that CB is really not helpless (to wash a dish, plug in a lamp, buy a pot, paddle out to surf a wave, or hire a professional contractor to install an air system).

Recent photos of Chris show him a 60 something man looking older than his father did at 80. It is as deserved as the “Picture of Dorian Gray”. But what makes this man more dangerous than the pathetic guru in the story is that Chris Butler, aka Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Prabupad, founder of the cult Science of Identity, is neither paralyzed nor voiceless enough to stop exploiting and using others.

Great Story.

Yes you are correct Initiate/Zelig told this story aswell.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Well since my link wasn't read last time I'll post the actual story:

He told the story of a guru who meditated day and night. He meditated so long and hard that he attained the highest Brahman realization. The problem was that he remained in the lotus position for so many years that his arm and leg muscles atrophied and locked into position. He was totally helpless and at the mercy of his followers. They would carry him around on a palanquin and parade their great guru around in his locked lotus position. He became completely dependent on them to feed him, bath him, and take him to the toilet and wipe his butt. This was the humiliating fate for a man so in control and in want of a following.

But you the way you told it was way better. You know "slightly" reworded for quality.

IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO....

IT TAKES ONE PERSON TO DELIVER A MANGO.

Here is another angle regarding the mango fiasco:

There seems to have been a lack of communication on the part of the said guru to ask for his mango breakfast... surely if the man had phoned Krishna Katha and asked him to bring him the mangos to his door, he would have done so immediately. What the problem is, however, is that no-one is allowed to phone guru or knock on his door without permission for fear of getting their head bitten off by said guru...

So my impression is that because the man acts like such an ogre, does not communicate properly with his "servants" and thus blames them for his own shortcomings with communicating his wishes.

And getting mangos shipped from Maui to Honolulu seems nonsense as well... Surely there are mangos readily available in all stores in Honolulu? -- seems like there is a mango tree on every block in many parts of Honolulu (?)... Seems as ridiculous as flying his daily flowers from the PI or some exotic tropical island, as if Oahu did not have enough flowers. (and they talked about squandering money????)

Regarding St. Francis and Jesus: it is true that the Fearless Leader did mention these two Christian saints and call them "pure devotees" but of course he did not follow in their footsteps of austerity. Good points, Hoax108 and Dassi!

More on the security problems later!

:)

Why would a pure deevoteeee need security?
Were they armed guards?
Did ACB ever have guards?
It's kinda weird that they turned on the tap water?
I think it is funny that none of the male disciples wanted to take this job!
Wonder if the incentive was initiation since it was probably un-paid labor.
Maybe one of his followers was so hungry they lifted his wallet?
=( Boo hoo he had to call up for money....

Dassi,

Thanks for your input.

I too watched "Brother Sun, Sister Moon" and "Jesus of Nazareth" many times. Both were by director Franco Zefferelli (sp?).

I recall that both these movies were "approved" for viewing by Katyani, whose "status" in CB's eyes seems to frequently change as has been discussed at length in this forum.

After leaving the cult, I started reading much more Christian literature and I began to see how CB did not seem to grasp or portray any of the spiritual graces displayed by Jesus or the Christian saints, not to mention Vaishnavas.

Quotesman provided some outstanding information earlier on this thread regarding CB's lack of adherence to Vaishnava guru practices and so on.

And I think you are right to say this Dassi:

Quote
dassi
They say that the more Jagad Guru "loves" you,
the more he chastises you.
Mind fuck you is more like it.
So people who were emotionally hemorhaging on the inside
became too weak
know they were losing their minds and resources.

I even think that he purposely portrayed Christianity as a relatively ignorant practice, lacking in depth and understanding.

From my perspective, and after reading certain texts, I have found this to be quite the opposite.

CB expounds on this SOI - "You are not your body" - as if this is some kind of profound realization that he has made and is sharing with the world.

That is such a basic spiritual principle, that it is not even dwelt upon much by anyone, other than CB.