Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 13, 2008 06:31AM

I've had to challenge many SoI members on the lies they have told me. Why should I not question the information you are offering here V? Because you've taken a stance against the cult? The cultofbutler site is only interested in facts and if you are spreading false information then it is likely that I am going to challenge you on it. I offered my reasons as an ex-follower as to why your views on Mike Gabbard don't add up and Zelig was challenged on the exact same points after he claimed to not remember the school existed. You didn't respond at all to my post.

Okay I didn't know you were posing as someone else Z. You just happen to have been involved in IGG, the ponomolau school and have the same documents he mentioned having and speak in the same fashion which you don't deny. Are you not male or jewish? You also admire him despite his being proven a liar on this forum and that he was giving false information. What was it that Rick Ross said, something like nothing he said is to be accepted without question or to be viewed as objective.

We would very much like the truth about Gabbard and your not being forthcoming in offering genuine information. You didn't deny that Devahuti dasi mentioned in the Haribol special is the same Carol Gabbard. Mike also states he went to Hawaii in 1977 which would make sense that he did so to help with the IGG party. The devotee school in Samoa would seem likely to have been run by the Gabbards unless Butler had some other disciples living in Samoa. If you had as much knowledge of the period 77-83 as you claim, you must know if there was a school in Samoa at least. The fact that we have no evidence of any disciples of Chris being named with a first letter not corresponding to their legal names except both Gabbard's and those who were initiated by ACB. The fact that this cult is not in the habit of allowing two new disciples to take charge of their children. His children have devotee names although four were born prior to 1983. We have no evidence that any parent changed their children's legal names once joining the cult and in fact it is very common for devotee children born into the cult or otherwise to have legal westernized names as well as sanskrit names. Mike Gabbard himself has never mentioned legally changing his childrens names.

So I'm asking you directly to be honest. Were Mike and Carol Gabbard members of the Science of Identity Foundation prior to 1983?

On the Valley Isle: Both links I posted on the Valley Isle refer to 1977 and in the paper Siddha refers to Holy Name Foundation which was the first name change of Scinece of Identity in december 1977. You made the point that in Haribol Special he was refering to himself as Jagat Guru, so this article appears to have been published between december and early 1978.

I posted link to a site recording the history of newspapers in Maui which you claim does not support my statement. I'll post it here so you can read it properly:

"A brief candle flame, burning but a year (1977-78), the Valley Isle entered the scene to take on a powerful giant, Big Isle rancher and politically well-connected Larry Mehau; but little “David” was attacked not only by its target but also by mainstream media in Honolulu. Owner-publisher Rick Reed, with no money for a high-powered lawyer, represented himself in court. In the end, he was not convicted of libel, after all.

This does not support your claim that it started before IGG. That would mean it would have been running prior to 1976. Rick Reed's own words does not support your claim that it folded in the mid 70s:

"I was on Maui. I owned a small newspaper called “The Valley Isle.” I had been sued by Larry Mehau for newspaper interviews I published alleging that he was the “godfather” of the local organized crime syndicate. One day in ’79 I got a phone call from a stranger.

The stranger identified himself as Chuck Marsland. He said he was a fan of my Valley Isle newspaper, and that he had been impressed with the Wayne Nishiki for Lt. Governor campaign that I had orchestrated the year before. "

You said:

"The papers folded mid ‘70’s so that CB could concentrate on becoming a political puppet master and Godfather in his own kingdom."

Political Puppet master could only refer to his role in IGG.

"Those papers folded after the IGG campaigns and the crew that published the papers moved to Honolulu to work on other projects."

Unless you are saying that Butler wanted to concentrate on being a political puppetmaster after he started a political party and ran 14 candidates for office. But that would just be stupid. But the rest of your facts are not supported at all.

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Posted by: Dassi ()
Date: June 13, 2008 07:00AM

I am LMAO!
To think I bought that shit!
I remember standing in front of a grocery store passing out Hoshijo flyers.
I met one of her high school classmates who told me Kathy was the most arrogant person she had ever met
and that she would never vote for her.
At the time I really thought Kat was a pure deeeevoteeee.
Almost coughed a hairball hearing that!
Must of been a "Heather" or a Mean Girl in high school....

The pink granny dress was awful!
I WANTED to wear my cool sanskrit scarf with my jeans and tank top instead. Ha!
I felt like a pet forced to wear clothes - totally humiliated.
I guess it matched my low self-esteem at the time.
Oh, how materialistic and superficial of me!
But all for the cause!
I also remember the asshole who forgot to pick me up and I was left stranded and alone on one of those
door to door escapades.
Good thing my boyfriend noticed.
I walked miles to get to the house we were staying at... too late for dinner -- all the food was gone.
We didn't know WTF we were doing!
Seems like they have a much more sophisticated system these days.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Dassi ()
Date: June 13, 2008 07:57AM


I agree, why make trouble where there really is none?
We are all on the same page when it comes to Butler's cult.

But we all have different things to say too.
And different ways of dealing with our experiences.

Why don't you just lift the good stuff and carry on with your campaign
without flaming people.

Personally, I don't care when the Valley Isle was published,
or if Gabbard was a regular guy once or not.
That's not the point.
The point we all can agree upon is that Chris Butler has been behind it all.
He was behind the Valley Isle, the IGG, SIF, lots of politics in Hawaii, on and on and on....
It's all here and elsewhere.

He's harmed me and a lot of lives with his schemes.

We don't come on this forum to be flamed and judged.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 13, 2008 08:25AM

I agree, why make trouble where there really is none?

I just answered this question dassi if you can read.

You have not offered on piece of information that is actually useful in over a year and a half despite your prolonged time in the cult. Unbelievable right. Oh except you did remind me about the "peg-legged chick" (your words) who is suggested to be Panca-tattva dasi although that is unconfirmed. You don't form proper sentences and never deal with specific details. All you have done is criticize the cultofbutler site. That was your big effort.

This sure is your perogative, but I'd like to point out to you that further conversation with me is of little use unless you offer useful information. Time is limited OK?

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: June 13, 2008 12:10PM

I am LMAO!
To think I bought that shit!
I remember standing in front of a grocery store passing out Hoshijo flyers.
I met one of her high school classmates who told me Kathy was the most arrogant person she had ever met
and that she would never vote for her.
At the time I really thought Kat was a pure deeeevoteeee.
Almost coughed a hairball hearing that!
Must of been a "Heather" or a Mean Girl in high school....

THANKS FOR SHARING THIS STORY, DASSI... you have offered some useful info on a key member of the cult... I know that the other Oriental woman cult leader (Vd) was also extremely arrogant and seemed almost like she had some sort of superiority complex, higher and mightier than us lowly scumbag devotees... Birds of a feather flock together, I suppose.

I remember one time I met a guy on Kauai who stated that Chris was like a spoiled child... At that time I immediately wanted to get away from his presence, thinking that a statment like this would destroy my spiritual life or something... but deep inside I knew that he was making a good point...

Your story about the door-to-door campaign is also a useful piece of information on how we lowly caste were treated ... basically overworked and kept very hungry ... Those were crazy days, indeed :0)


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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 13, 2008 01:45PM

Yeah dassi has provided much valuable info. Here is a run down of her time on this thread.

March 21 You introduce breifly yourself, you like indian food and were in a cult.

March 23 list of greetings to your friends in the cult

March 23 Vague discussion of guilt you felt in the cult

March 25 Vague disconnected recollection of your time in the cult

March 25 Short vague comment about how having a baby helped you recover

March 26 Kudos to Zelig

March 26 Chriskcon went down for the day and you ask what's up.

April 2 Unrelated

April 2 Butler is a rat (two lines)

April 2 Short comment about Butlers goons punching Cara

May 8 Vague comments about the Gabbard school

May 8 Vague comment about chris being interested in Vivekananda

May 7 Joke About Jar jar binks

May 9 You make a joke about Gabbard's kids name

May 9 Unrelated

June 1 You criticize Cara and defend Zelig

September 08 You criticize Cara for taking down her site as a valuable resource

September 08 You criticize Cara and defend Zelig

September 08 You criticize Cara and defend Zelig

September 8 Unrelated

September 10 You repost two other messages and offer a vague recollection of IGG

September 14 vague claim about members using martial arts and armed gaurds

September 14 You include one line about laughing at chris

September 16 speculation about a hypothetical policy book

September 16 You complain about Butler's views on Christmas

September 16 Repost of another message, you laugh and compare Butler to british colonial arrogance.

September 17 you check out a siddha quote site and complain that there is no new material

September 17 You complain that Jivans site has not been updated

September 17 You ask for news from Hawaii

September 18 You complain that butler has not come out with any new material

September 18 Unrelated

September 19 You claim Gift wrapped emptiness was on the radio

September 25 repost of another message

September 25 repost of another message

September 25 Unrelated

September 25 Laughing at Siddhas clothes

September 25 On comment that Butler tried to imitate Phil Donohue

September 25 Vague discussion of red flags

September 25 Everyone has different experiences and you mention Purushotam

September 25 Vague comment about catch 22

September 26 Vague discussion about the cult

September 26 SO WHY DID WE COMPLY (full post)

September 27 Rant about nothing in particular

September 27 Talk about your personal beliefs

September 28 Vague rant about the cult

September 28 Unrelated

September 30 vague rant about the cult

September 30 Repost of another message

September 30 Another repost of another message

September 30 Vague rant about sadness

September 30 Unrelated

September 30 Yet another repost of another person
October 1 repost of another message

October 1 Unrelated

October 1 Vague talk about sex and vaishnavaism

October 1 Repost of another message

October 2 Unrelated

October 2 vague quote about pure devotees

October 2 unrelated

October 5 unrelated

October 5 One vague line about Soi profits

October 7 Unrelated

October 7 Unrelated

October 7 unrelated

October 8 unrelated

October 8 Chris is a fraud. That is all

October 8 You ask questions about the solution for dealing with the cult

October 10 your short opinions on vaishnavism

October 10 Unrelated

October 16 unrelated

October 22 Vague discussion about the cult. Hearsay.

October 22 Repost of Corboy

October 24 Glad you didn't raise your child in the cult.

October 25 Vague discussion of schooling in the cult. Hearsay.

December 16 Vague general explanation of SoI

February 28 Zelig is great, criticism of Cara, Rick Ross forum is great

Feburary 29 Unrelated discussion

Feburary 29 Rick Ross is the number one site

February 29 Uddhava dasi and Krishna Jiva were great people.

March 5 Chris Butler is a victim of his self and has a mental illness. Nothing further

March 5 Discussion about cults in general and claims that sifting out the facts is the purpose of this forum.

March 5 explanation of Cognitive dissonance.

March 5 General discussion about the cult. Hearsay

March 6 Gerenal rant and speculation about the cult

March 11 General discussion of dangerous cults and SoI (hearsay)

March 14 Reposted serveral quotes from Dharmabum

March 19 vague reference to kids influenced by drugs. Butler is a Fraud.

March 19 quotes from corboy

March 24 "Nice Googster" full post

June 8 Vague reference to Reeds paper. "This was just CB sticking his dick in the air and pounding his chest at the ISKCON dudes. What a joke!" Very feminine.

June 12 Hearsay from a school mate claiming that Kathy Hoshijo being arrogant, you didn't like your clothes, someone forgot to pick you up and you didn't get to eat.

June 12 Criticism of me

One hundred or so posts of unrelated posts, many reposts of other posters, criticisms of Cara and after all this less than ten posts actually refer to your experience in the cult and consists completely of vague unsubstantiated rants. Not one single piece of actual usuable information in 13 months.

So what was that you were saying about this forum being great? Are you actually planning on contributing?

I think we know who the trolls are.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 13, 2008 07:56PM

Not to single dassi out but let's look at Googlings performance over 6 months prior to this latest documents phase:

March 26 - talks about Bob Dylan

March 24 - Writes a song

March 18 - Claims that Soi members are indoctrinated into anti-homosexuality, and indoctrinated into believing they are great. They watch TV become influenced and start their involvement in politics - Non sensical raving

March 15 - Speculates on SoI members surfing the net

March 11 - Says he is still around

March 11 - Speculates about SoI divorce rates

Nov 20 - Wonders what Chris thinks of the New World Order

Nov 18 - Unrelated

Nov 17 - Talks about mind control

Nov 15 - Mentions a CIA agent getting his legs blown off - unrelated

Nov 15 Unrelated

Oct 18 - Conspiracy Theory relating to Tin Foil

Oct 30 - Talks about rossary beads

Oct 23 speculation about whether Chris would consider poisoning voters

Oct 23 - Claims forcing a five year old to chant rounds is unbelievable, despite this being common in SoI

Oct 24 - Talks about Chemtrails theory

Oct 20 - One line about how Chris butler's focus on politics contradicts the Bhagavatams

Oct 14 - talks about ACB and Narayan Maharaj

Oct 14 - unrelated movies

Oct 19 - Deep underground military bases

Oct 12 - Speculates about SoI remaking "The Life of Jesus"

Oct 12 - Reposts another members quote

Oct 11 - Thanks quotesman

Oct 11 - Tells a joke about gurus.

Oct 10 - States Butler is paranoid and compares him to Stalin

Oct 10 - Post 4 questions an SoI should ask themselves

Oct 9 - Repost another post

Oct 8 - Forms the "Social league of Blooped Sanyassis"

Oct 8 - Unrelated

Oct 8 - Something about ACB

Oct 6 - Writes a song

Oct 7 - Talks about this thread turning cult heads (two lines)

Oct 5 - Muses about SoI tax

Oct 3 - 3 line Praise of Quotesmans post

Oct 2 - breifly discusses the lack of relationship between Chris Butler and his guru

Oct 1 - metaphor of Chris and Alice in Wonderland

Oct 1 - Mentions he listens to Christian music.

Oct 1 - Tells a joke

Should I keep going? Notice a theme going on here?

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 13, 2008 09:15PM

SoI Kills:

Attacking dassi is not the purpose of this thread and flaming is against the rules.

Please stop now.

This thread is about Chris Butler not dassi.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: June 13, 2008 09:54PM

Yeh, let's keep this a SUPPORTIVE forum of past cult members who have come forward to tell their story...

the key word here is



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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 13, 2008 09:54PM

Rick, I just posted facts that members on your forum have made endless posts not related to SoI in order to discourage this practice.

You then reprimand me for pointing this out as it is not related to SoI. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

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