Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 10, 2008 09:35AM

End of article...

Up next....
The Self-Indulgent One's talk on education.

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Idiot talks Education
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 10, 2008 09:44AM

more to come of this article.....

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Education continues
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 10, 2008 09:46AM

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final education
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 10, 2008 09:50AM

No comment needed. Self-evident.
Interesting insights into the mind of CB though...

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: June 10, 2008 07:10PM

Oh, crickey, Dassi and crew, you've got me waxing poetical again! I couldn't stop this little ditty going through my head this morning:

(Or - is this really the absolute truth?)

Hate the fag.
Salute the American Flag.
Vote for Bush at the next election.
Get married, have children -

Our mission is to destroy the rights of the gay.
No kissing, no hugging - AND NO FOREPLAY.

Send me your dough
So I can surf in the snow.
(But don't laugh or smile while me and my step-children have fun,
Lest you burn in hell, you worthless lousy scum.)

Support the war.
Peace is for the tilly.
The enemy is rotten to the core.

Worship the warship,
Support the war.
That's what we pay our taxes for.
Vote so Neocons can rule the nation.

Listen to my lectures,
follow my instruction...
We gotta find those weapons of mass destruction.
Worship me and you may get to heaven.
Meanwhile, we gotta get the bastards that caused nine-eleven.

Get a gun.
Don't have fun.
Pretty soon we gotta bomb Iran.

If my lamp's not plugged in, alert every nation...
For this is the cause of their eternal damnation.

Love God, love your country - good old patriotism...
and support the war on ERRORISM.

Support the war, the bombing of cities, et cetera,
For it's just like Krishna at the Battle of Kuruksetra.


Just giggling...

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CB talk on education
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 10, 2008 10:30PM

Very funny Googster!
But don't you mean "war on EROTICISM"!

Just a few notes. The talk on education was given in front of an audience of children, who are interviewed, but it is not always clear. Much of how he speaks to the children is appalling. The school, Ponomauloa, was already in operation for a year or more and clearly CB did not even know what KKd (aka Senator Mike Gabbard) was teaching there, but still considered it his school. CB offered no financial assistance and in this talk he is offering his services as an advisor. This was his style at the time -- just wanted everyone else to run things. No micro-manangement. Also, when the school first started, the book "Who Am I" had not been published yet, so this and yoga asanas were added to the curriculum (They were not part of the original curriculum). CB had no knowledge of this as evidenced by his questions, and yet, he felt it was HIS school. KKd was aiming to please his guru, but had a lot of latitude in designing the school. The Bhagavad Gita As It Is was originally part of the curriculum, but probably dropped by some comment/ criticism by CB. (Some directive to only teach from HIS books). The original school had a fundamentals curriculum ("the three R's" Reading, Riting, Rithmatic =) with some basic philosophy; modeled after a Catholic School. The cultic aspects came along more and more as CB's influence captured KKd and his wife. (Don't forget, they were regular people once.) Hatha yoga probably replaced tennis as per VD's influence. CB used to mock sports like golf and tennis as useless and idiotic. Also, CB nixed KKd's idea to open the school to local kids. CB had such a fear of "contamination" on all levels of his being, from germs to karmis. What is not in this talk is that KKd really needed financial assistance to keep the school running. Parents could not afford the bills because most had surrendered their lives to CB. The school folded because of this. CB would not offer one cent to help the school. As CB lost control over this generation of kids and followers, he decided to open the infamous school in a third world country far away from authorities and parents to raise a generation to support his old age.

The documents that will follow were freely distributed to all initiated followers. You'll understand why a great exodus of people left after that. A new persona was emerging from the time CB self-appointed himself a Jagad Guru (Messiah), married a divorced follower, and became more and more critical and petulant concerning his personal and financial needs. Who came later and who stayed behind after this were a different type of person. It is clear from testimonies that CB became more secretive and isolated. He created an inner-inner circle of loyalists who were willing to do anything or justify anything for their messiah. I am waiting for one of those rotton apples to fall from the tree and expose the whole cult.

If you suspect you are in a cult, before you leave, save all the documents and artifacts that you can. Before you leave, try to collect as much evidence as you can. It is through sheer luck that the pages I am posting now were found recently after looking for them for 4 years! They don't reveal the most nefarious claims against CB and his cult, but they are enough to expose it as a dangerous one.

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Rick Reed
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 11, 2008 05:45AM

BTW, on the page with the heading "Surrender to the Church" in the 'Acharya...blah blah" newspaper is a photo of former Hi. Senator Rick Reed. Yep, that's him standing to the right of CB wiping his nose. It was probably taken in 1976 -1977.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 11, 2008 09:23AM

What you are saying Vera City conflicts somewhat with what was previously being said on this forum about Ponomauloa School with claims being made that it was open to the public children and that there was no long chanting sessions and the focus was not on religion.

Actually the book Who Are You had been published by this time, there were at least two versions of it before the common edition which was published in 1984. With all the currently available facts considered it would seem that Tusta Krishna das wrote at least half the book and Siddha merely took full credit for it later.

You refer to Mike and Carol Gababrd as being regular people once, which of course they would have been, but it is in the Dear Fanatic newspaper article that Devrhuti dasi was a member of Self-Realisation Fellowship - so if she was ever not in a cult it was a long time ago.

A great exodus of people may well have left after this, but the persons mentioned in the documents are still there.

As for waiting for one of those rotten apples to fall from the tree many of the people who could (and should) have a long time ago exposed Siddha after leaving him are with other organisations now. There is going to be an expose on former followers and their new links throughout the Viashnava community [] at some point in the near future. These people will not speak out because of the cult mentality that it is better to be with a bogus guru than to be with no guru at all. It is a disease for which there is still no known cure.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 11, 2008 09:40AM

Also with regard to ISKCON this is not as clear cut as the article implies.

Although it is an outstanding article for revealing Siddha's grand-standing it is a fact (another one which was strongly refuted on this forum) that Siddha was and is to this day the justification used by the GBC for the position which he claims to be against. He is infact the ONLY justification that the GBC has for their position which gives a clear picture of why ISKCON doesn't bother to oppose him. Blatant hypocrisy on all sides.

Those who remain loyal to Bhaktivedanta Swami, such as PADA and the IRM have overlooked a very clear argument where if they exposed Siddha as being bogus they would greatly strengthen their case that present day ISKCON is bogus - so why don't they? Perhaps they don't want to be forced to admit that ACB didn't initiate one decent disciple in the whole bunch. Sid is safe from being oppossed because ISKCON-GBC need him because he got instructions that it was justified to initiate one's own disciples afer ACB died and ISKCON dissenters need him because he claims to be staying true to the original mission.

All sense of morality in modern Vaishnavism has gone because they are competing for the few believers that are left. Very recently Narayan Maharaj attempted to claim ownership of ISKCON (again) to such an extent that ISKCON had to release a statement to all members saying that his comments were not supported by the GBC, although they stopped short of denoucing him completely. There is a lot of money and favours for those who could be convinced to just be quiet about the whole thing.

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Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 11, 2008 08:26PM

Right so the story goes Mike Gabbard was working in Samoa in 1983. He decides to move his family to Hawaii and in all this chaos he stumbles across a SoI member (or decides to go to a meditation center) and one thing leads to another and he becomes a disciple of Chris Butler. Mid-year he, Carol Gabbard and Carter Reed get together, and whoever else, and start to plan a school. It gets to the stage that they have a location start the school and it was registered in August 1983. So this occured over let's say 3-5 months right?

So from August to April 1984 (8 months) 'Big Mouth' Butler has not yet gotten up on his soapbox and offered any clear instruction as to how the school should be run. Mike Gabbard has elected not to teach his bonafide guru's philosophy to the children who so desperately need to learn this Science of Identity philosophy and no disciples at the school or parents of the kids have had their say on how their children should be taught. This fanatical secretive cult just casually sends all their kids to a couple of new disciples who have not been properly brainwashed yet - who had no intention of teaching the children directly from his almighty guru's books.

Then after a year or so Mike Gabbard slowly begins to be properly conditioned by his guru. Meanwhile the disciples around him are so brainwashed that their math skills are disfigured to the point they can't understand a six month fast from food and water would kill you within a week. The same disciples that would eat someone else's toenails and think it was better than chocolate.

The same disciples that joined ISKCON for him (and left for him). The same disciples that moved from wherever they were located to start a political party, start a newspaper or run for government in 1976 because he ordered this. These are the disciples?

So amongst this fanatical and largely nutty cult, Mike Gabbard managed to remain completely normal, start a school and have control over all their offspring, and then after a year or so, of offering his life to Chris Butler and worshipping Butler's picture (with his children) on the altar daily, and having the water that washed his guru's feet thrown on his head every gathering (and he possibly he drank it) only then he started to become rigidly trained and brainwashed.

Is this what you are trying to tell me Vera?

Oh and that the devotee school in Samoa that others reported was completely unrelated to Gabbard? Am I reading you right?

Why don't you tell us the real story? Not this over-simplified propaganda fairytale you're expecting us to buy. I was in the cult for a total of two years and have hundreds of stories that I could tell. Having been in for over ten years you should be able to tell us so much more i.e 77-88, I counted. Tell us the 'real story' of Gabbard, the school and IGG. Details man.

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